Pondering the future of the Gnome classic session beyond Ubuntu Precise

[kansasnoob]

And beginning with Quantal the "footprint" for 'gnome-tweak-tool' is quite small:

lance@lance-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get install gnome-tweak-tool
[sudo] password for lance: 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  gir1.2-gdesktopenums-3.0 gir1.2-gnomedesktop-3.0 gnome-shell-common
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  gir1.2-gdesktopenums-3.0 gir1.2-gnomedesktop-3.0 gnome-shell-common
  gnome-tweak-tool
0 upgraded, 4 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
Need to get 988 kB of archives.
After this operation, 7,625 kB of additional disk space will be used.

Whereas in Precise the footprint was quite large:

lance@lance-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get install gnome-tweak-tool
[sudo] password for lance: 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
  libjpeg-turbo-progs libgle3 libjpeg-progs
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
The following extra packages will be installed:
  gir1.2-accountsservice-1.0 gir1.2-caribou-1.0 gir1.2-clutter-1.0
  gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 gir1.2-folks-0.6
  gir1.2-gdesktopenums-3.0 gir1.2-gee-1.0 gir1.2-gjsdbus-1.0 gir1.2-gkbd-3.0
  gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-mutter-3.0 gir1.2-networkmanager-1.0
  gir1.2-telepathyglib-0.12 gir1.2-telepathylogger-0.2 gir1.2-upowerglib-1.0
  gir1.2-xkl-1.0 gjs gnome-contacts gnome-icon-theme-full gnome-shell
  gnome-shell-common gnome-themes-standard libcaribou-common libcaribou0
  libclutter-1.0-0 libclutter-1.0-common libcogl-common libcogl-pango0
  libcogl9 libgjs0c libmozjs185-1.0 libmutter0 mutter-common
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  gir1.2-accountsservice-1.0 gir1.2-caribou-1.0 gir1.2-clutter-1.0
  gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 gir1.2-folks-0.6
  gir1.2-gdesktopenums-3.0 gir1.2-gee-1.0 gir1.2-gjsdbus-1.0 gir1.2-gkbd-3.0
  gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-mutter-3.0 gir1.2-networkmanager-1.0
  gir1.2-telepathyglib-0.12 gir1.2-telepathylogger-0.2 gir1.2-upowerglib-1.0
  gir1.2-xkl-1.0 gjs gnome-contacts gnome-icon-theme-full gnome-shell
  gnome-shell-common gnome-themes-standard gnome-tweak-tool libcaribou-common
  libcaribou0 libclutter-1.0-0 libclutter-1.0-common libcogl-common
  libcogl-pango0 libcogl9 libgjs0c libmozjs185-1.0 libmutter0 mutter-common
0 upgraded, 35 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
Need to get 16.8 MB of archives.
After this operation, 38.1 MB of additional disk space will be used.

That makes installing and using 'gnome-tweak-tool' a quite viable option

[kansasnoob]

I anticipate someone asking why the fallback-session was renamed flashback so I want to be able to point to the changelog for 'gnome-panel':

gnome-panel (3.6.2-1) UNRELEASED; urgency=low

* New upstream release
* Moved gnome-session-fallback from gnome-session and rename to
gnome-sesion-flashback:
- debian/control.in
- debian/gnome-session-flashback.*
- debian/gnome-wm.desktop
- debian/patches/01_gnome-wm.patch
- debian/patches/02_flashback_desktop.patch
- debian/scripts/
* 00-Add-the-GNOME-Flashback-session.patch:
- Backport patch to add session files for GNOME Flashback
* debian/control.in:
- Have gnome-session-flashback depend on nautilus >= 3.8
and gnome-screensaver per .session file
- Update build dependencies
* debian/patches/git-build-with-gnome-desktop38*.patch
- Fix build with gnome-desktop3 3.8
* debian/patches/drop-gweather-xml-include.patch:
- Fix build with libgweather 3.8
* Backport several other fixes:
- 90-remove_artifact_on_icon_animation.patch
- 91-fix_panels_in_separate_screens.patch
- 92-fix_sunrise-times.patch
* Dropped patches applied in new version
- 15_avoid_applet_loading_failures.patch
- 16_remove_online_accounts_from_user_menu.patch
- 17_avoid_double_forking.patch
- 19_dconf_api_changes.patch

-- Jeremy Bicha <jbicha@ubuntu.com> Sat, 08 Jun 2013 21:11:02 -0400

The simple fact is that the decision was made upstream in Debian

[kansasnoob]

Someone posted a perfectly a valid response to a discussion in Ubuntu +1, please DO NOT move it, but my explanation could easily take that thread way off-topic so I'm posting a convoluted response here in order to keep that thread on topic

I actually liked the wording there:

"who's who in the gnome zoo"

It really does relate to the general confusion surrounding the current "gnome-sessions".

First of all NEVER install the meta-package 'gnome' because it pulls in way too many unwanted packages:

lance@lance-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get install gnome
[sudo] password for lance: 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  binfmt-support browser-plugin-gnash caribou caribou-antler cli-common
  dconf-tools desktop-base finger five-or-more four-in-a-row gdebi gdebi-core
  gedit-plugins gimp gimp-data gir1.2-gucharmap-2.90 gir1.2-zeitgeist-2.0 gksu
  gnash gnash-common gnome-chess gnome-core gnome-dictionary gnome-games
  gnome-klotski gnome-nettool gnome-nibbles gnome-packagekit
  gnome-packagekit-data gnome-packagekit-session gnome-robots gnome-tetravex
  gnuchess gnuchess-book gtk2-engines hamster-applet hamster-indicator iagno
  imagemagick imagemagick-common inkscape libamd2.2.0 libappindicator0.1-cil
  libappindicator1 libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbabl-0.1-0 libblas3 libbonobo2-0
  libbonobo2-common libbonoboui2-0 libbonoboui2-common
  libboost-iostreams1.53.0 libboost-program-options1.53.0
  libboost-thread1.53.0 libcaribou-gtk-module libcaribou-gtk3-module
  libdbus-glib1.0-cil libdbus1.0-cil libdiscid0 libgconf2.0-cil libgdict-1.0-6
  libgdict-common libgdiplus libgegl-0.2-0 libgfortran3 libgimp2.0 libgksu2-0
  libglade2-0 libglib2.0-cil libgmime2.6-cil libgnome2-0 libgnome2-bin
  libgnome2-common libgnomecanvas2-0 libgnomecanvas2-common libgnomeui-0
  libgnomeui-common libgnomevfs2-0 libgnomevfs2-common libgnomevfs2-extra
  libgsl0ldbl libgtk-vnc-2.0-0 libgtk2.0-cil libgtkspell0 libgupnp-av-1.0-2
  libgupnp-dlna-2.0-3 libgvnc-1.0-0 libidl-common libidl0 libilmbase6
  libindicator7 libjavascriptcoregtk-1.0-0 liblapack3 liblinear-tools
  liblinear1 liblqr-1-0 libmagick++5 libmagickcore5 libmagickcore5-extra
  libmagickwand5 libmng1 libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil libmono-addins0.2-cil
  libmono-cairo4.0-cil libmono-corlib4.0-cil libmono-i18n-west4.0-cil
  libmono-i18n4.0-cil libmono-posix4.0-cil libmono-security4.0-cil
  libmono-sharpzip4.84-cil libmono-system-configuration4.0-cil
  libmono-system-core4.0-cil libmono-system-drawing4.0-cil
  libmono-system-security4.0-cil libmono-system-xml4.0-cil
  libmono-system4.0-cil libnetpbm10 libopenexr6 liborbit2 librygel-core-2.0-1
  librygel-renderer-2.0-1 librygel-renderer-gst-2.0-1 librygel-server-2.0-1
  libsdl1.2debian libsofia-sip-ua-glib3 libsofia-sip-ua0 libumfpack5.4.0
  libwebkitgtk-1.0-0 libwebkitgtk-1.0-common libwmf-bin libwnck-common
  libwnck22 lightsoff mono-4.0-gac mono-gac mono-runtime netpbm nmap
  perlmagick python-appindicator python-gconf python-gnome2 python-numpy
  python-pyatspi python-pyorbit python-uniconvertor python-wnck quadrapassel
  rdesktop rygel rygel-playbin rygel-preferences sound-juicer swell-foop tali
  telepathy-rakia tomboy tracker-gui vinagre whois
Suggested packages:
  browser-plugin-lightspark gimp-help-en gimp-help gimp-data-extras dia-gnome
  gnome-boxes gnucash libreoffice-evolution planner gnome-hearts
  gnome-system-tools gnome-packagekit-tools xboard eboard scid
  python-evolution imagemagick-doc autotrace curl enscript ffmpeg gnuplot
  grads hp2xx html2ps mplayer povray radiance texlive-base-bin transfig
  ufraw-batch ruby libsvg-perl libxml-xql-perl pstoedit libbonobo2-bin
  libdiscid0-dbg monodoc-gtk2.0-manual libgnomevfs2-bin gamin fam
  gnome-mime-data gsl-ref-psdoc gsl-doc-pdf gsl-doc-info gsl-ref-html
  libsvm-tools liblinear-dev libmono-i18n4.0-all libgamin0 sofia-sip-doc
  gstreamer1.0-ffmpeg python-gnome2-doc python-numpy-doc python-numpy-dbg
  python-nose python-dev gfortran python-pyorbit-dbg python-uniconvertor-dbg
  pcscd rygel-tracker rygel-mediathek tumbler gstreamer1.0-lame
  gstreamer1.0-plugins-really-bad tasque
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  binfmt-support browser-plugin-gnash caribou caribou-antler cli-common
  dconf-tools desktop-base finger five-or-more four-in-a-row gdebi gdebi-core
  gedit-plugins gimp gimp-data gir1.2-gucharmap-2.90 gir1.2-zeitgeist-2.0 gksu
  gnash gnash-common gnome gnome-chess gnome-core gnome-dictionary gnome-games
  gnome-klotski gnome-nettool gnome-nibbles gnome-packagekit
  gnome-packagekit-data gnome-packagekit-session gnome-robots gnome-tetravex
  gnuchess gnuchess-book gtk2-engines hamster-applet hamster-indicator iagno
  imagemagick imagemagick-common inkscape libamd2.2.0 libappindicator0.1-cil
  libappindicator1 libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbabl-0.1-0 libblas3 libbonobo2-0
  libbonobo2-common libbonoboui2-0 libbonoboui2-common
  libboost-iostreams1.53.0 libboost-program-options1.53.0
  libboost-thread1.53.0 libcaribou-gtk-module libcaribou-gtk3-module
  libdbus-glib1.0-cil libdbus1.0-cil libdiscid0 libgconf2.0-cil libgdict-1.0-6
  libgdict-common libgdiplus libgegl-0.2-0 libgfortran3 libgimp2.0 libgksu2-0
  libglade2-0 libglib2.0-cil libgmime2.6-cil libgnome2-0 libgnome2-bin
  libgnome2-common libgnomecanvas2-0 libgnomecanvas2-common libgnomeui-0
  libgnomeui-common libgnomevfs2-0 libgnomevfs2-common libgnomevfs2-extra
  libgsl0ldbl libgtk-vnc-2.0-0 libgtk2.0-cil libgtkspell0 libgupnp-av-1.0-2
  libgupnp-dlna-2.0-3 libgvnc-1.0-0 libidl-common libidl0 libilmbase6
  libindicator7 libjavascriptcoregtk-1.0-0 liblapack3 liblinear-tools
  liblinear1 liblqr-1-0 libmagick++5 libmagickcore5 libmagickcore5-extra
  libmagickwand5 libmng1 libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil libmono-addins0.2-cil
  libmono-cairo4.0-cil libmono-corlib4.0-cil libmono-i18n-west4.0-cil
  libmono-i18n4.0-cil libmono-posix4.0-cil libmono-security4.0-cil
  libmono-sharpzip4.84-cil libmono-system-configuration4.0-cil
  libmono-system-core4.0-cil libmono-system-drawing4.0-cil
  libmono-system-security4.0-cil libmono-system-xml4.0-cil
  libmono-system4.0-cil libnetpbm10 libopenexr6 liborbit2 librygel-core-2.0-1
  librygel-renderer-2.0-1 librygel-renderer-gst-2.0-1 librygel-server-2.0-1
  libsdl1.2debian libsofia-sip-ua-glib3 libsofia-sip-ua0 libumfpack5.4.0
  libwebkitgtk-1.0-0 libwebkitgtk-1.0-common libwmf-bin libwnck-common
  libwnck22 lightsoff mono-4.0-gac mono-gac mono-runtime netpbm nmap
  perlmagick python-appindicator python-gconf python-gnome2 python-numpy
  python-pyatspi python-pyorbit python-uniconvertor python-wnck quadrapassel
  rdesktop rygel rygel-playbin rygel-preferences sound-juicer swell-foop tali
  telepathy-rakia tomboy tracker-gui vinagre whois
0 upgraded, 161 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 106 MB of archives.
After this operation, 398 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? n
Abort.

The only time I would use that meta-package is if I'm installing from a mini.iso wanting a somewhat more pure Debian experience.

Second, if you're starting with Ubuntu itself the only login option is Ubuntu, but explaining the "session" names is much easier for me beginning with Ubuntu GNOME (in this case I'm using Ubuntu GNOME Saucy). In these poor pictures you'll see four login options:

IMG_4623.JPG IMG_4624.JPG

They are:

GNOME
GNOME Classic
GNOME Flashback
GNOME Flashback (no effects)

The standard GNOME session is gnome-shell. There are some fairly decent screenshots here:

http://mylinuxexplore.blogspot.com/2...alamander.html

In Saucy a new GNOME Classic session was introduced, but it is totally based on 'gnome-shell':

http://www.webupd8.org/2013/02/a-qui...e-classic.html

In either Ubuntu or Ubuntu GNOME if you install the package 'gnome-panel' it brings in the packages needed to provide the "flashback" options, but there has been some confusion surrounding the session renaming:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2185161

GNOME Flashback uses the Compiz window manager which I find incredibly problematic in Ubuntu because Unity is so reliant on Compiz, and Compiz must be installed in Ubuntu GNOME to use that session or you'll just boot to a blank screen.

GNOME Flashback (no effects) uses the Metacity window manager which I happen to prefer:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1966370

Is this info helpful at all?

[sudodus]

Is this info helpful at all?

Yes

I tried Ubuntu Gnome recently, but only the default session. I'd better try GNOME Flashback (no effects) too. Chances are that I'll prefer it too at least for older computers.

[kansasnoob]

Yes

I tried Ubuntu Gnome recently, but only the default session. I'd better try GNOME Flashback (no effects) too. Chances are that I'll prefer it too at least for older computers.

While I find this almost painful to say, I find the Metacity session preferable to Lubuntu or Xubuntu, unless they break the heck out of it in Trusty

[PJs Ronin]

Is this info helpful at all?

Most definitely. It also helps if I read what you're saying and not assume what you're saying.

From my perspective what I would need now is a road map as to what 'tweak' tools should be used for each gnome type. I'd also pose the question, does gnome and its variants require GDM or will they work with LightDM?

[kansasnoob]

Most definitely. It also helps if I read what you're saying and not assume what you're saying.

From my perspective what I would need now is a road map as to what 'tweak' tools should be used for each gnome type. I'd also pose the question, does gnome and its variants require GDM or will they work with LightDM?

Tough but good questions

I'll address your last question first:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2183871

As you can see there I had to use 'lightdm' with the 'lightdm-gtk-greeter' to get things working with the flashback sessions in Ubuntu GNOME Saucy (and so far in Trusty).

Regarding the rest of it I think you need to just figure out what you want most out of your computer?

If Unity is working well for you then stick with it.

If not tell me what you do and don't like about it.

ATM I personally prefer Ubuntu GNOME out-of-box with the standard GNOME Shell DE, but I maintain nearly 50 individual PC's spread out over a 50 mile radius and preferences differ

It's pretty easy to find you-tube videos of how different DE's perform, or you could muck around with some different live iso's, or you could even try different distros in a VM.

What are you comfortable doing?

[PJs Ronin]

What are you comfortable doing?

I'm pretty comfortable doing anything (legal) and have 7 partitions with different flavours of Ubuntu with the occasional Mint thrown in as well. Just as well you didn't ask "What are you capable of doing?" because that's an entirely different matter. But let's have a go shall we.

Here is an image of the top of my browser. See those horrible window controls? I'm having a hell of a job changing them.


This partition is an insitu upgrade of Saucy to Trusty with Unity as standard and Gnome added. I've logged in with the "Gnome" option (gnome-shell right?) and am now trying to set some window features (themes). I've tried CCSM, gnome-tweak-tool, Ubuntu-tweak, Unity-tweak-tool and Unsettings. I know that some of these tools have no impact on gnome-shell at all, but desperate times call for desperate measures. The best I can get from any of these tools is some minor changes to the GTK+ Theme and the Current Theme... but nothing that makes my eyes light up.

My needs are simple, to have a DE that looks attractive and is easy to modify. So far, I can't see that happening with Gnome.

Btw, my gnoming is all from the standard repos.

[kansasnoob]

I'm pretty comfortable doing anything (legal) and have 7 partitions with different flavours of Ubuntu with the occasional Mint thrown in as well. Just as well you didn't ask "What are you capable of doing?" because that's an entirely different matter. But let's have a go shall we.

Here is an image of the top of my browser. See those horrible window controls? I'm having a hell of a job changing them.


This partition is an insitu upgrade of Saucy to Trusty with Unity as standard and Gnome added. I've logged in with the "Gnome" option (gnome-shell right?) and am now trying to set some window features (themes). I've tried CCSM, gnome-tweak-tool, Ubuntu-tweak, Unity-tweak-tool and Unsettings. I know that some of these tools have no impact on gnome-shell at all, but desperate times call for desperate measures. The best I can get from any of these tools is some minor changes to the GTK+ Theme and the Current Theme... but nothing that makes my eyes light up.

My needs are simple, to have a DE that looks attractive and is easy to modify. So far, I can't see that happening with Gnome.

Btw, my gnoming is all from the standard repos.

Very tough questions again, but deserving of a response. I'm glad to know that you know how to multi-boot, I do the same thing. But it's hard to know where to start.

Did you read my post #53? I clearly said there that installing the meta-package 'gnome' is the wrong way to approach this.

Now I'm going to point out a few things in no particular order;

(1) Ubuntu Trusty is pre-alpha at this point:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule

(2) Trying to learn a new DE while also dealing with an unstable (or unpredictable) version of an OS is NOT a good idea. It's a bit like taking the second bite of an apple before chewing the first ;^) So I'd recommend using a stable release like Saucy for testing DE's and then compare the changes in the next dev release a bit later in the dev cycle.

(3) I'm not the best person to ask about 'gnome-shell' or 'unity'. I loved Unity in Precise, particularly since there was a Unity-2D version to fall back on, but since then most of my hardware will NOT support Unity so I gave up. And I'd never really tried 'gnome-shell' until Raring when Ubuntu GNOME became an official flavor, so I'm the wrong person to ask about adding a "GNOME Shell" session to Ubuntu. Well, I do know it's best to just install 'gnome-session' or 'gnome-shell' rather than the 'gnome' meta-package, but that's about it.

(4) Ubuntu GNOME became an official flavor in Raring and I've been an iso-tester since 2008 so when I choose which iso's to test I look for those that are most in need. I did the same when Lubuntu became official some time back. It's called "helping the new kid on the block" :^) But while performing Ubuntu GNOME Saucy testing I truly fell in love with it, these screenshots are actually from Ubuntu GNOME Trusty which is quite buggy but it'll give you an idea how little I "tweak" just using 'gnome-tweak-tool':

sys_set_background.jpg

tweak_desktop.jpg

tweak_extensions.jpg

tweak_shell.jpg

tweak_theme.jpg

(5) I've found converting from one DE to another is more and more complicated so I'm trying to focus on getting somewhat better integration but it's a huge challenge!!!!

So, I'd suggest using a stable release like Saucy to find your desired DE, then you can post questions here:

http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=329

But if you insist on using Trusty, which is at least unpredictable, you can post specific questions here:

http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=427

I hope this is helpful.

[PJs Ronin]

very much... ty