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Thread: A open letter to the Ubuntu community re: Automatix

  1. #11
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    Re: A open letter to the Ubuntu community re: Automatix

    T700, while I agree in principle with what you're saying, installing extra codecs is not nearly as difficult as installing car parts... and if you type the wrong command, your computer won't explode. If you install the car part incorrectly, though, your car very well may!

  2. #12
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    Re: A open letter to the Ubuntu community re: Automatix

    People sometimes misunderstand the intention of the people who develop the programs like Automatix, EasyUbuntu, and BUMPS. These programs are developed to help promote Debian and Ubuntu to new users.

    The goal of Automatix is to make it easier for new users to get their system up and running so they can enjoy the operating system now. The hope is to get as many people as possible to stick with Ubuntu so they get hooked. In time many of these people will want to learn how to do this stuff manually and will want to learn their operating system's potential.

    Before Automatix people were instructed to mindlessy copy and paste commands in the terminal. People were just doing this with no understanding of what the commands actually were or what they really did. I am saying this from my own personal experience. It was about two months of using Ubuntu that made me realize I wanted to actually learn what these commands did and to become more aquainted with the features of the operating system.

    In other words people have to want to learn more about their operating system before the will learn about it. If we want to spread Debian, Ubuntu and Linux we have to accept the fact that we need to cater to individuals who ATM do not have the desire to learn more about it. They just want a working system ASAP. The more of these individuals we get started on Linux, the larger the number of people there will be that eventually will want to learn more.

    None of these programs are better or worse than the other. They are just different in their scope. I agree with asyiu that people need to be informed of the choices each one has to offer and let the user make a choice on that information. Automatix is not competing with BUMPS or EasyUbuntu. This is not a contest that one of us has to win. All I can say is look at what each has to offer and decide which one suits your needs best.
    Manually installing software and setting up your system is always preferable. However, there is not one thing wrong with using Automatix for getting it done the easy way. Get Automatix2 Support Here

  3. #13
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    Re: A open letter to the Ubuntu community re: Automatix

    I'm with mstlyevil on this one. No one has anything to gain by forcing users to install popular applications manually.

    If users want to install manually, they have that option. A-B-E are just other options that make things simpler. If people want to learn stuff later, they can.

    Either way, pasting commands doesn't force you to learn what those commands (I, too, an speaking from experience). I, like many others, chose to learn what those commands mean after I got my system set up through copy and paste.

    I think what you suggest to new users (A-B-E or manual installation) should depend greatly on the situation and of A, B, and E, what you suggest will probably come down to what you yourself have used. If you've used only BUMPS, it certainly doesn't make sense to recommend Automatix to someone.

    Here's a situation where I'd recommend A-B-E:
    Hi. I'm new to Ubuntu. It looks to be an exciting system, and it seems more fun than Windows. I'm having a bit of trouble, though. Right now, there seems to be a lot to learn, and I do want to learn everything in time, but for now... I just want a functioning system. Can anyone tell me how I can install Acrobat Reader, Flash, Limewire, and Swiftfox?
    Here's a situation where I'd recommend manual installation:
    Can someone tell me how I can get MP3 playback on my Ubuntu? Thanks
    Last edited by aysiu; July 1st, 2006 at 07:42 PM.

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    Re: A open letter to the Ubuntu community re: Automatix

    Linux enduser's have to want to learn how to do this stuff be it gui or manually ,and have to to be willing to learn their operating system's potential be it Linux or some other os. sure aysiu or any other forum member can post a command code while listing exatly what the code does.

    however is the user just see's the code, and does not take the time to read what it does just copy/past it, and say it does not work for them you still end up with someone saying linux is not this that,and the next.

    I'm not sure there are many who are willing to read 200+ page linux books with command line info ect. you do have those who are willing to learn linux be it a few.

    I don't care if it's Automatix, EasyUbuntu,Bumps,Aptitude. the enduser should have a list avalable to them that explains what the codes are,and do. now if they are unwilling to read it thats another problem then.



    just my thoughts..
    Advantages and Disadvantages of 64bit.(Plus install Guides)

    ‘In search of some small measure of peace, that we all seek, and few of us ever find.’

  5. #15
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    Re: A open letter to the Ubuntu community re: Automatix

    I'm speaking only for myself here, but if I'd been forced to understand absolutely every command before entering it into my Ubuntu terminal, I would not be using Ubuntu right now.

    I liked the freedom of being able to choose what I wanted to understand and when I wanted to understand it. I chose at first to just copy and paste commands I knew would work (as they were often recommended by more than one forum member).

    Later, when my system was working the way I liked it, I investigated a bit more as to what the commands do. I like working at my own pace and not being forced to learn things before I'm ready to learn them.

  6. #16
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    Thumbs up Re: A open letter to the Ubuntu community re: Automatix

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloch
    I know choice is the by-word of linux. But this is another case where choice is just an annoyance to the new user.
    Proprietary formats/software, particularly mp3, wma, the software to play DVDs, java are all an integral part of a modern operating system. It is confusing, unneccessarily so, for the new user to face so many choices in installing these.

    It would be nice if the community got together and recommended one of automatix / easy ubuntu / something else
    for beginners.
    It really is not fair to tell beginners to choose one.


    Is this a sophisticated joke?
    I have used automatix twice with no problem. But I would think twice before using software that has only been tested by 6 people. Clarify what you mean.

    Is there any procedure for canonical to "officially" recommend one of these intallation scripts?

    For the record, I only know automatix.
    Why am I with Ubuntu.

    Well in the beginning my OS was MS-Dos 5.0, then for years my computers ran with windows, one flavor or another. Eventually I found windows to be a canned approach to computing, not a bad approach but for me boring. Years ago Linux, for me at least, was impossible to install, but what a challenge! Linux for me is an adventure and that's why I'm with Linux. Why is choice good? Well to have choices, first we must have dedicated individuals [developers] willing to make the effort and develope applications so that choices exist, and this is good, because it enlarges the scientific base for computing. I'm for choice and Automatix is
    Regards
    Compaq DeskPro Warrior

  7. #17
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    Re: A open letter to the Ubuntu community re: Automatix

    aysiu i agrree with the whole learn at your own pace thought. however there are those who are not even willing to do that.

    As for the whole copy/paste thing it's fine to do i guess to get the system up, provided the user understands that pasting codes may not always be an option.


    In the end there are many ways to get a linux system to run the way you want, and what you want.


    I hope the dev's of all these programs can find common ground,and get along as a whole.
    Advantages and Disadvantages of 64bit.(Plus install Guides)

    ‘In search of some small measure of peace, that we all seek, and few of us ever find.’

  8. #18
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    Re: A open letter to the Ubuntu community re: Automatix

    I don't recommend any of the programs to new users. Why, I don't know, most likely because I let other people answer those questions.

    I used EasyUbuntu when it first came out on my Hoary system, I think it was modified from a French program and it broke some stuff in my system, but since I was used to Linux, I could fix it. The sort of breakage that occured would have definitely annoyed a new user.

    When Dapper came out, I didn't want to do stuff manually, so I used Automatix. I worked good, but hung up on Flash, but after running it twice, it finally installed.

    I haven't used BUMPs yet, but it was either that or Automatix when I installed Dapper and at the time, I thought about helping out on Automatix, but I have no clue what zenity is, so I decided not to. I used Automatix to figure out if I could be helpful to the team.

    I will agree with the idea to let people know the differences between the programs when providing help and not just suggesting one program, even if you've only used one of the many.

    For example, you could reply with:
    There are multiple ways to do this, EasyUbuntu, BUMPS, and Automatix, they can be found (links here). This link here (insert link) will tell you about the differences between the three. I currently use this (insert program name) and if you chose this, I may be able to further help you with problems associated with that.
    And with that, I've exhausted my literary capacity for the weekend, so I'm off to a wedding.
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    *** If you're going to program, install the damn build-essential package ***
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  9. #19
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    Re: A open letter to the Ubuntu community re: Automatix

    Quote Originally Posted by aysiu
    I'm speaking only for myself here, but if I'd been forced to understand absolutely every command before entering it into my Ubuntu terminal, I would not be using Ubuntu right now.

    Later, when my system was working the way I liked it, I investigated a bit more as to what the commands do. I like working at my own pace and not being forced to learn things before I'm ready to learn them.
    Absolutely the same here. After I installed Breezy, I used automatix to configure it. The same with Dapper. But now, I have an older PC that I've installed Dapper on, that I am "piecing together". I've come to find that installing what I need is not the least bit hard.....the hard part is knowing what I'm looking for! Sometimes you can't tell anything by filenames, and reading descriptions is the only way to do it, and that is time consuming...but I'm getting there!!

  10. #20
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    Re: A open letter to the Ubuntu community re: Automatix

    I remember when I was using Kubuntu Hoary I had a problem (can't remember what it was). I searched the problems, and found a thread by a Ubuntu user with the same problem. Unfortunately for me, the answer given to that user was simply "Use Automatix". Of course, there was no Automatix for Kubuntu at the time.

    I think these forums provide an awful lot of useful information, and only answering a query with "Use Autmatix / Easyubuntu / whatever" will diminish that.

    By all means mention these tools as options open to users, options that work for a lot of people, but maybe aren't "guaranteed". But still tell folks the manual way to do things.

    That way, those who want to learn will, and that will include users searching the forums at a later date.

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