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Thread: Update headache

  1. #11
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    Re: Update headache

    Actually, now that I think of it, I have plenty of unallocated room on my HDD. So, can I install 12.04 AND keep 9.10 and have them both draw from my /home?
    It's typically NOT a good idea to share /home because your individual desktop profile exists in /home so each time you switch from 9.10 to 12.04 all of your settings will be gorfed

    You might get by with it if you use a different user ID but then you might encounter some difficulties with file "ownership". OTOH if this is the only Linux OS on the machine you should be offered options similar to this:

    test_one_choice.png

    Note: If you don't understand or like the options you're offered the QUIT button is there for a reason!

    I've personally had very good luck with the "upgrade" option but you're always foolish NOT to back up everything important!

    And you can get really close to a classic gnome look and feel in 12.04:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1966370

  2. #12
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    Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail

    Re: Update headache

    Two installs can share a home folder, you just need to use two separate accounts so that the config files are kept separate. You can put your data in a common location that both accounts have permission to access.

  3. #13
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    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Update headache

    OK . . . a coupla things now.

    @ Miljet,

    That definitely sounds like what I want to do, but kansasnoob says I shouldn't use the same /home for both. If you're in agreement with that, then do you have two different /homes? IOW, should I create a separate /home partition for my 12.04? (Same question to @ kansasnoob.) Paqman apparently has a sort of workaround.

    Also, would the installation of 12.04 create a separate swap file for its use only, or would it use the existing swap?

    @ kansasnoob,

    In that installation options screenshot of yours, if that's what I'm presented with, I'm guessing I would use the fourth option: "Something else". I certainly don't have 11.10 on my machine and I definitely don't want to "erase everything". So that's the only option left. Will that then go on to give me screens to create a 12.04 / partition and a 12.04 /home partition?

    I am still considering the upgrade route (based on Paqman's recommendation that "You can upgrade directly to 10.04, which is still a supported version and uses the Gnome 2 desktop you like. Since it's an LTS release you can upgrade directly to the next LTS which is 12.04" here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...42&postcount=5 ) but I'm still leaning toward a fresh install anyway, especially if I can have both 9.10 and 12.04.

    I favor 9.10 so much, and my existing settings, mostly because I've worked so hard to make it stable. For example, I had quite a bit of trouble with my touchpad and the cursor moving all over the place, but I finally solved that with a synclient script (can't remember what file I put it in.) Plus my video was buggy, but I finally resolved that too (can't remember what I did now.) So that's why I want to keep my settings and am still considering the upgrade path.

    But I assume that the kernel code has changed so much that I might not have the touchpad or video problems anyway, but I may have an entirely new set of problems. It might be misleading to say "problems". I'll likely just have to tweak it to get things the way I want them . . . like I did with 9.10. And everybody has to do that to some degree, so it's to be expected. Hopefully it won't be as intense as it was with 9.10.

    Should I use GParted from a LiveCD to format my unallocated area for ext4 BEFORE I try the installation routine, or will the install routine do that? I expect I'll have to do something with GParted first, since the unallocated region is NOT formatted at all.

    And, yes, BTW, I'm making a lot of backups and screenshots.

    @ Paqman,

    So just exactly how would I go about running the install routine to accomplish keeping the config files separate as you suggest.

    If you guys havn't figured it out yet, I can use a step-by-step guide, like:

    1. Run GParted to <blah, blah, blah>.

    2. Burn the 12.04 CD from the ISO you download from here: _ _ _ _

    3. Run the 12.04 installation routine by selecting <this> and <this> etc.

    4. Modify the fstab files in both versions to reflect <blah, blah, blah>. (I have no idea if this is necessary . . . just using it as an example.)

    5. Boot

    6. Follow kansasnoobs instructions for installing the gnome-classic like DE.

    Now I know that's asking a lot, so if you all choose not to do that, I know I'll muddle through it anyway. But if any of you can at least point out those things that would definitely bork my efforts, I sure would appreciate it. I'm going to have to go through this minefield myself, so if anyone can point out where the mines might be . . . that would be kewl. The more specific the help the better.

    Anyway, TIA and thanks already for the help you've given so far.

    BTW, here's my current partitioning:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by BobJam; July 15th, 2012 at 07:44 AM. Reason: Formatting
    BJ

  4. #14
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    Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail

    Re: Update headache

    Quote Originally Posted by BobJam View Post
    If you guys havn't figured it out yet, I can use a step-by-step guide, like:
    1. Boot the Live CD
    2. Run the installer
    3. Choose "do something else..." on the partitioning page
    4. Select the unallocated space to be mounted at /, format as ext4
    5. Select the old home partition to be mounted at /home, do not format
    6. When you set up the first user account, use a different user name from the existing install
    7. Profit!


    If you don't want to use all the unallocated space on that disk, use Gparted to carve it up before proceeding to run the installer. The end result of this process will be two root partitions for two different releases of Ubuntu, and one home partition with two sets of user home folders. You could also create a shared data partition with relatively permissive permissions if you like, and the locations in each user's home folders could be linked to it if you want to keep things tidy.
    Last edited by Paqman; July 16th, 2012 at 12:47 PM.

  5. #15
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    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Update headache

    OK . . . one more round of responses and then I'm going to take a deep breath, fasten my seat belt, and pull the trigger.

    @ kansasnoob,

    These are responses to your post here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...&postcount=104

    Yes, I've decided I will just do a fresh install of 12.04, NOT go through the update process.

    First of all, you clearly have been through the (installation) drill, done the dance, heard the music, and I hold your experience there in high regard. And, the more I think of it, having two separate /homes (Old/home and New/home, though I assume these are just labels and not mount points/paths. The paths would be /home/new/[user name] and /home/old/[same user name?]?) makes more sense to me considering that I'll have the reference of the Old/home available to draw on in building the New/home that suits my needs with the 12.04 version.

    But I'm not quite clear on the partitioning method (though you've provided good explanatory screenshots, and I'm just flat out dense about this . . . as you can see in my stated confusion about the home paths above), so let me state here what my understanding is, and please correct me if I'm wrong.

    1. On the creating and sizing, you suggest creating a partition (from the unallocated portion) destined for the 12.04 system (New/? Just a "label", right? So would I give it a mount point, and then how would this be seen as different from the 9.10 /?)

    2. And then another formatted and sized partition from the unallocated partition destined for the 12.04 home (New/home? Just a label, right? Same question, how would the mount point of the 12.04 /home be seen by the boot as different from the 9.10 /home? Wouldn't the system get confused and cranky? Or does the fact that they are on different sda designations take care of that?)

    3. From all your screenshots of partitioning, it appears as though I don't need to create another swap file dedicated to 12.04, but rather my existing swap will be sufficient. Is that correct? Do I need to resize THAT partition? Will there be somewhere in the installation routine that I can point the 12.04 / to the existing swap?

    4. I like having a lot of free space in both / and /home. That may be a holdover habit from Windows. How much do I really need for Ubuntu? Should I shrink those partitons?

    5. Looking at the screenshot for all your "testing" distros, it looks like you DON'T have a separate /home anywhere in there, so I assume your /homes are just part of the / partitions? Is that correct?

    6. And the only mount point I see for / is your 12.04 partition on sda12. So does that mean your machine boots by default into 12.04 . . . though I expect a Grub menu gives you a selection . . . confused, obviously.

    7. In http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.p...8&d=1342351863 I see "label" but not "mount point" . . . why? And what about mount points for each of my versions (9.10 and 12.04) . . . will the 12.04 installation routine stall if I don't give the 12.04 system and home a mount point? (It doesn't look like you did for all your testing distros.) Clearly I'm getting confused between "mount point" and "label". As I understand it, "mount point" is pretty much cast in stone, and "label" is arbitrary (I mean, you could label a partition "cucumber" if you wanted, but "mount point" has to be somewhere on the tree.)

    8. To use GParted to mess with partitions on my machine, I need to use the GParted on the LiveCD? Something about mounting stuff, isn't it?

    That http://members.iinet.net.au/~herman546/p22.html reference is for a dual boot with Windows . . . would it essentially be the same for dual boots between two versions of Ubuntu or are there differences not discussed in this? I'm also looking at your http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1622388 thread . . . that's 12 pages and I haven't digested it all yet.

    I had been wondering whether to use GParted to prep new partitions out of "unallocated" space or whether to just use the installer to do it? As I'm understanding this reference, it (and you) recommend prepping with GParted first? Correct?

    (BTW, I see you visit HTG. I do also and I like that site. And nice touch of humor there: "No operating systems were harmed in the making of this web page.")

    In prep, would you recommend downloading the Super Grub Disk?

    My machine currently boots to a Grub-like selection for kernels, recovery-mode, and memtest. I assume this is Grub from 9.10 (actually, it HAS to be because I don't have any other Ubuntu version on the machine right now.)

    So, I assume there will be a Grub component in 12.04. If so, which one would prevail on boot? Do I need to do something here? I'm trying to digest this page: http://members.iinet.net.au/~herman546/p15.html#Operating_System_Entries_for_Multiple_Boo ting_More_Linux_Systems . Am I going in the right direction? Though it appears that maybe 9.10 uses Grub2, so I may not have any problems there? Or does 12.04 use a Grub version that's wayyy different from 1.98?

    BTW, once I get the 12.04 ISO burned, I'm going to first try it running just off the CD to see if my hardware is compatible and if I can get on line wirelessly (my machine has a Broadcom wireless card with Broadcom's BCM4311-, BCM4312-, BCM4321-, and BCM4322-based hardware and the Broadcom STA wireless driver Edit in 9.10.)

    I see this is getting wayyyyyy too lengthy, so just two more questions.

    I'm planning on going back to my "old home" and copying some of the old dot files, like .Skype, and pasting that into my "new home" just to see if it will carry my old settings into the "new home" (my 12.04 Skype installation in this example). Any cautions there?

    And finally, can you give me any "DON'T DO THIS FOR SURE" advice . . . something that will definitely bork my whole effort.

    Oh, one more thing. Is there a way I can toggle between the systems or do I have to log out in one and log back in the other every time? (I ask that because I'll probably at first be going back and forth a lot to get the "new/home" as close to the old as I can.

    @ Paqman,

    Thanks very much for the step-by-step. That's exactly what I was looking for, except it looks like there are two things you show that I may not do.

    It looks like your steps would use the LiveCD installer to do the partitioning. I think I'm going to use the LiveCD Gparted to do the partitioning prep instead EDIT: which I see you added as an option at the end of your post.

    It also looks like your steps do a shared /home, which was what I was first going to try, but now I think I'll make a separate "new home" for 12.04.

    Considering that I now will use two /homes, will I still need to set up two different user names for them?
    Last edited by BobJam; July 21st, 2012 at 05:38 PM. Reason: Formatting and content
    BJ

  6. #16
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    Re: Update headache

    My installation advice differs and I guess it caused some confusion:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...&postcount=113

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...&postcount=104

    I have in the past encountered permission problems trying to share /home with different users but at some point every end user must decide who's advice to take

  7. #17
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    Re: Update headache

    Quote Originally Posted by BobJam View Post
    OK . . . one more round of responses and then I'm going to take a deep breath, fasten my seat belt, and pull the trigger.

    @ kansasnoob,

    These are responses to your post here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...&postcount=104

    Yes, I've decided I will just do a fresh install of 12.04, NOT go through the update process.

    First of all, you clearly have been through the (installation) drill, done the dance, heard the music, and I hold your experience there in high regard. And, the more I think of it, having two separate /homes (Old/home and New/home, though I assume these are just labels and not mount points/paths. The paths would be /home/new/[user name] and /home/old/[same user name?]?) makes more sense to me considering that I'll have the reference of the Old/home available to draw on in building the New/home that suits my needs with the 12.04 version.

    But I'm not quite clear on the partitioning method (though you've provided good explanatory screenshots, and I'm just flat out dense about this . . . as you can see in my stated confusion about the home paths above), so let me state here what my understanding is, and please correct me if I'm wrong.

    1. On the creating and sizing, you suggest creating a partition (from the unallocated portion) destined for the 12.04 system (New/? Just a "label", right? So would I give it a mount point, and then how would this be seen as different from the 9.10 /?)

    2. And then another formatted and sized partition from the unallocated partition destined for the 12.04 home (New/home? Just a label, right? Same question, how would the mount point of the 12.04 /home be see as different from the 9.10 /home? Wouldn't the system get confused and cranky? Or does the fact that they are on different sda designations take care of that?)

    3. From all your screenshots of partitioning, it appears as though I don't need to create another swap file dedicated to 12.04, but rather my existing swap will be sufficient. Is that correct? Do I need to resize THAT partition? Will there be somewhere in the installation routine that I can point the 12.04 / to the existing swap?

    4. I like having a lot of free space in both / and /home. That may be a holdover habit from Windows. How much do I really need for Ubuntu? Should I shrink those partitons?

    5. Looking at the screenshot for all your "testing" distros, it looks like you DON'T have a separate /home anywhere in there, so I assume your /homes are just part of the / partitions? Is that correct?

    6. And the only mount point I see for / is your 12.04 partition on sda12. So does that mean your machine boots by default into 12.04 . . . though I expect a Grub menu gives you a selection . . . confused, obviously.

    7. In http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.p...8&d=1342351863 I see "label" but not "mount point" . . . why? And what about mount points for each of my versions (9.10 and 12.04) . . . will the 12.04 installation routine stall if I don't give the 12.04 system and home a mount point? (It doesn't look like you did for all your testing distros.) Clearly I'm getting confused between "mount point" and "label". As I understand it, "mount point" is pretty much cast in stone, and "label" is arbitrary (I mean, you could label a partition "cucumber" if you wanted, but "mount point" has to be somewhere on the tree.)

    8. To use GParted to mess with partitions on my machine, I need to use the GParted on the LiveCD? Something about mounting stuff, isn't it?

    That http://members.iinet.net.au/~herman546/p22.html reference is for a dual boot with Windows . . . would it essentially be the same for dual boots between two versions of Ubuntu or are there differences not discussed in this? I'm also looking at your http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1622388 thread . . . that's 12 pages and I haven't digested it all yet.

    I had been wondering whether to use GParted to prep new partitions out of "unallocated" space or whether to just use the installer to do it? As I'm understanding this reference, it (and you) recommend prepping with GParted first? Correct?

    (BTW, I see you visit HTG. I do also and I like that site. And nice touch of humor there: "No operating systems were harmed in the making of this web page.")

    In prep, would you recommend downloading the Super Grub Disk?

    My machine currently boots to a Grub-like selection for kernels, recovery-mode, and memtest. I assume this is Grub from 9.10 (actually, it HAS to be because I don't have any other Ubuntu version on the machine right now.)

    So, I assume there will be a Grub component in 12.04. If so, which one would prevail on boot? Do I need to do something here? I'm trying to digest this page: http://members.iinet.net.au/~herman546/p15.html#Operating_System_Entries_for_Multiple_Boo ting_More_Linux_Systems . Am I going in the right direction? Though it appears that maybe 9.10 uses Grub2, so I may not have any problems there? Or does 12.04 use a Grub version that's wayyy different from 1.98?

    BTW, once I get the 12.04 ISO burned, I'm going to first try it running just off the CD to see if my hardware is compatible and if I can get on line wirelessly (my machine has a Broadcom wireless card with Broadcom's BCM4311-, BCM4312-, BCM4321-, and BCM4322-based hardware and the Broadcom STA wireless driver.)

    I see this is getting wayyyyyy too lengthy, so just two more questions.

    I'm planning on going back to my "old home" and copying some of the old dot files, like .Skype, and pasting that into my "new home" just to see if it will carry my old settings into the "new home" (my 12.04 Skype installation in this example). Any cautions there?

    And finally, can you give me any "DON'T DO THIS FOR SURE" advice . . . something that will definitely bork my whole effort.

    Oh, one more thing. Is there a way I can toggle between the systems or do I have to log out in one and log back in the other every time? (I ask that because I'll probably at first be going back and forth a lot to get the "new/home" as close to the old as I can.

    @ Paqman,

    Thanks very much for the step-by-step. That's exactly what I was looking for, except it looks like there are two things you show that I may not do.

    It looks like your steps would use the LiveCD installer to do the partitioning. I think I'm going to use the LiveCD Gparted to do the partitioning prep instead.

    It also looks like your steps do a shared /home, which was what I was first going to try, but now I think I'll make a separate "new home" for 12.04.

    Considering that I now will use two /homes, will I still need to set up two different user names for them?
    I need to go out and bounce around on an old tractor so I may not get back to this until tomorrow, sorry

  8. #18
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    Re: Update headache

    OK, I'm back. But before I begin answering any of your questions I need to ask you two questions. In this post:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...&postcount=104

    I posted some general hints/examples/comparisons but I then said:

    But lets stop and discuss three other things:

    #1: Before beginning the installation (or the testdrive of the Live desktop) always check the disc/USB for errors. In Lucid they began hiding the boot options so when the first screen appears with the two small logos at the bottom you have a whopping 3 seconds to press a key and display the language selector followed by the boot options. Be sure to choose "check disc for defects". It takes several minutes to complete but I can't think of anything more frustrating than finding out the installation media was faulty. Look here:

    http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/installing

    #2: I'm guessing you have a laptop. It's always best to use a wired power source when partitioning or installing. Imagine the battery dieing when you're nearly done! Even then my general rule is to backup all valuable data to some external source - the data that's not backed up is always the data that gets lost.
    Never mind #3 on that list for now, after posting that I noticed that you did mention how much RAM you had and we'll deal with that later.

    So my question #1 (in four parts):

    (a) Have you downloaded and created your Ubuntu 12.04 live CD/USB?

    (b) Which is it (CD or USB)?

    (c) Have you checked it for errors as I described?

    (d) After making sure it was error free have you tried the live desktop?

    You MUST have good live/installation media before beginning, and running the live desktop can sometimes rule out hardware problems that may be encountered either during or after the installation

    My question #2:

    Do you have all of your important data backed up to an external device?

    The data you don't have backed up is always the data you lose!

    *******************

    In my next post I'll try to answer some of your questions. Please wait for some more specific partitioning advice before attempting the installation - unless you just decide to "pull the trigger".

    BTW Paqman is just as qualified as I am, and undoubtedly smarter

    You can ask 10 died-in-the-wool Linux users the same question and get 40 or 50 different answers from just those 10 users because the options are almost limitless

  9. #19
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    Re: Update headache

    Trying to figure out how to best answer your questions

    I obviously confused you with the screenshots here:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...&postcount=104

    Because you said:

    the more I think of it, having two separate /homes (Old/home and New/home, though I assume these are just labels and not mount points/paths. The paths would be /home/new/[user name] and /home/old/[same user name?]?) makes more sense to me considering that I'll have the reference of the Old/home available to draw on in building the New/home that suits my needs with the 12.04 version.

    But I'm not quite clear on the partitioning method (though you've provided good explanatory screenshots, and I'm just flat out dense about this . . . as you can see in my stated confusion about the home paths above), so let me state here what my understanding is, and please correct me if I'm wrong.

    1. On the creating and sizing, you suggest creating a partition (from the unallocated portion) destined for the 12.04 system (New/? Just a "label", right? So would I give it a mount point, and then how would this be seen as different from the 9.10 /?)

    2. And then another formatted and sized partition from the unallocated partition destined for the 12.04 home (New/home? Just a label, right? Same question, how would the mount point of the 12.04 /home be seen by the boot as different from the 9.10 /home? Wouldn't the system get confused and cranky? Or does the fact that they are on different sda designations take care of that?)
    Your confusion actually makes me confused

    Labels and mount points are two totally different things!

    I used those labels with that blank 160GB drive only to show proportionally what I recommended doing. Let me try and think about how to better explain that.

    I obviously need to truly explain this step by step. So make sure you have a defect free installation media and I'll think about how to do this

  10. #20
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    Re: Update headache

    3. From all your screenshots of partitioning, it appears as though I don't need to create another swap file dedicated to 12.04, but rather my existing swap will be sufficient. Is that correct? Do I need to resize THAT partition? Will there be somewhere in the installation routine that I can point the 12.04 / to the existing swap?
    Yes, only one operating system runs at a time, so they can share the same SWAP. I actually linked to this:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1622388

    And it says:

    you’ll find that the installer will use any and all existing SWAP partitions

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