Ubuntu IRC is a real turn-off

[Nillerz]

I hope I am posting this in the right section, but I find that time and time again, Ubuntu IRC is actively hostile to helping out Ubuntu users.

If I'm not posting this in the right section, I apologize, I thought this one seemed most appropriate.

First off, I'd say on a scale of 1-10, my linux and technical knowledge is maybe a 6. I've been using Linux for several years, and usually can fix my own problems without much issue.

The problems I experience on the Ubuntu IRC are generally problems with moderation above all else. Here's some typical scenarios on Ubuntu IRC.

-A user logs in, says "Hey, I'm having issues with my monitor!"
-Someone will say !ubottu | X
-Ubottu will spit out some blurb that has nothing to do with users issue.
-The user clarifies their issue
-Other users tell that user to follow Ubottu's advice

Ubottu makes users with real issues feel like nobody cares, and let's be honest, the people who use ubottu to answer questions generally DON'T care about the issue. People don't go into the IRC chat the first time they have an issue, they google the problem first. Chances are, whatever Ubottu is telling them, they've already looked into.

Here's another common scenario:

-User comes in asking about a common issue, but happens to be using something that isn't Ubuntu, but is Ubuntu-based (ie, Linux Mint)
-People tell user they don't support X distribution, even though the problem is probably something that is the same in both distributions
-User is told to go to his distributions channel

Often times the user will get around this issue by lying. Many IRC channels for smaller distributions have X-Chat set up to go to #ubuntu upon signing into Freenode. They do this because they have much smaller communities and are probably almost identical to Ubuntu in the first place, the only differences being in the amount of packages included in the base distribution. Ubuntu is built off of the work of the entire Open Source community, and it isn't appropriate, in my opinion, to tell someone to bugger off because they're using a tweaked version of the same OS. It's not like Ubuntu is the sole creative output of a single entity, it's a collaboration, and help should be given to all who use open source software.

Here's the situation that prompted me to make this thread:

-I join #ubuntu, ask if someone can help me set up Broadcom-STA for a non-official kernel... mind you, I'm running Ubuntu, I'm just running a different kernel because of issues I had with the main release
-Another user offers to help
-Moderators get angry and kick me from the channel because I'm getting support about a non-official kernel.

Obviously this is absurd. I got the kernel from http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa...3.4.4-quantal/ . It's not like it's a BSD kernel, it's a Linux kernel that was vetted and released by Linus, then packaged into a .deb by some nice fellow so Ubuntu users can use it.

Here's the main problem: The face that the Ubuntu IRC is presenting to the world is the same face they see when they call their cell-phones technical support line. No answers, no assistance, if you void the warranty, you're gone. "You should have read the contract more clearly", "We're not going to support you", "Contact your computer manufacturer". It's all pretty similar. Instead of them seeing the wonderfully collaborative side of Open Source Software, where people spend their free time helping each other out and making programs out of their need for the programs to exist, then sharing their programs with the world, they see a bureaucratic mess of "We won't help you".

Ubuntu is the most popular Linux distribution available, and when Ubuntu has a community made out of lawyers and politicians, it makes the entire community look bad.

I'm of the opinion that the Ubuntu IRC should be moderated a bit nicer, and be a little less hostile to people with problems. Feel free to tell me how wrong I am, but this is my two cents.

[Grenage]

I'd argue with you, but in my experience you're not wrong; that's the general populace of IRC. It obviously hasn't changed in the last 18 years.

[Brimwylf]

I'd argue with you, but in my experience you're not wrong; that's the general populace of IRC. It obviously hasn't changed in the last 18 years.

I will argue with you though. That is not normal *or* an IRC thing. There's a ton of channels on freenode where you actually feel like you're part of a community, that's just not #ubuntu's case. What the OP experienced is what keeps me away from #ubuntu for some time now, even though I'm an active freenode user. I had similar problems there, with stuck-up users (not even moderators, mind you) that think they own the land. That place is worse than #gentoo and #openbsd nowadays. And it's not like I asked how do you install X package or how do I change the desktop wallpaper. I consider myself to be quite an experienced Linux user, just not that good with Ubuntu since I'm new-ish to it.

In #ubuntu there's a 80-90% chance of getting laughed at if you're new, no matter how serious your problem is. I've tried fixing stuff atleast 10 times with their help, and only once I received actual answers (didn't help, but atleast they tried).

[cipherboy_loc]

OP, when I have a question about a custom kernel/compiling a kernel, I ask the guys in Gentoo. Generally they are willing to help me with that on Ubuntu, though I do admit that I have spent a bit of time there in the past and have run a few Gentoo installs. Might want to get familiar with Gentoo (VirtualBox?) and see if they can help your Ubuntu kernel problems.

Cipherboy

[Nillerz]

OP, when I have a question about a custom kernel/compiling a kernel, I ask the guys in Gentoo. Generally they are willing to help me with that on Ubuntu, though I do admit that I have spent a bit of time there in the past and have run a few Gentoo installs. Might want to get familiar with Gentoo (VirtualBox?) and see if they can help your Ubuntu kernel problems.

Cipherboy

That's pretty good advice, I hear the Gentoo community doesn't mind getting nice and technical. I've used Slackware on my other computers and that's all find/dandy, but right now I'm in a foreign country and I don't want to be playing with my setup more than I need to, if you know what I mean.

[wilee-nilee]

I will only say that your rhetoric is based on your personal assumptions and opinions of what others think, this makes it null and void in my opinion. You're basically projecting your opinions and experience on other users.

I have spent 1000's of hours there helping people and lurking to learn.

[mips]

It's one IRC channel I don't frequent, that and there is way to much traffic in there.

[sffvba[e0rt]

Thread moved to The Community Cafe.

Unfortunately not much the forum can do about the conduct of others on IRC. There is an IRC Council and also an appeal process etc.


404

[CharlesA]

The last time I went to #ubuntu on IRC was to ask about a potential bug with the halt command on 12.04 and I was basically told: "You are doing it wrong. Use poweroff, not halt."

Needless to say, I got no help with figuring out if it was a bug or "working as intended"

Perhaps try #ubuntu-beginners next time?

Unfortunately not much the forum can do about the conduct of others on IRC. There is an IRC Council and also an appeal process etc.

Huge +1 to that. If an OP is abusing their powers, submit a complaint.

[Nillerz]

I will only say that your rhetoric is based on your personal assumptions and opinions of what others think, this makes it null and void in my opinion. You're basically projecting your opinions and experience on other users.

I have spent 1000's of hours there helping people and lurking to learn.

I hope I didn't come off as sounding like most people in the Ubuntu IRC are an issue, I am mostly criticizing the moderation style and some common habits of people in the channel. If you help people out then I'm sure they appreciate you. Also, I think I should note that I consider myself a "user", therefore I'm hardly casting my personal assumptions on what other people think, but I doubt I'm the only person in the world who thinks the contrast between help in #ubuntu is not to par with the help offered in other open-source project channels.