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Thread: A Real Threat

  1. #21
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    Re: A Real Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by hansdown View Post
    The community wiki may help ease some fears.

    https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFIBooting
    This does not ease any of my fears. GNU/Linux has supported UEFI for years. The problem is when a computer is sold with a locked down UEFI, in order to meet the specification of a competitor with over 92% market share, that prevents the instalation of GNU/Linux as is the case with Windows 8 on ARM or throws technical obstacles in the way of installing GNU/Linux as is the case with Windows 8 on x86/AMD64.

  2. #22
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    Re: A Real Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. C View Post
    This does not ease any of my fears. GNU/Linux has supported UEFI for years. The problem is when a computer is sold with a locked down UEFI, in order to meet the specification of a competitor with over 92% market share, that prevents the instalation of GNU/Linux as is the case with Windows 8 on ARM or throws technical obstacles in the way of installing GNU/Linux as is the case with Windows 8 on x86/AMD64.
    There are no guarantees in life just like there is no free ride. I think you are losing sleep over trivia.

    In the words of the Bard..... "Much ado about nothing"
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  3. #23
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    Re: A Real Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiNZ View Post
    There are no guarantees in life just like there is no free ride. I think you are losing sleep over trivia.

    In the words of the Bard..... "Much ado about nothing"
    There is nothing to loose sleep about here. I see two scenarios:

    1) Some teenager cracks the whole thing wide open. History has shown this to be the fate of many a corporate DRM project.
    2) The EU and possibly the US hits Microsoft hard with anti-trust fines. Again history has proven this to be the case.

    More likely 1+2. I plan to sleep soundly tonight. Now if I did own MSFT stock that would be another matter.

  4. #24
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    Re: A Real Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. C View Post
    There is nothing to loose sleep about here. I see two scenarios:

    1) Some teenager cracks the whole thing wide open. History has shown this to be the fate of many a corporate DRM project.
    2) The EU and possibly the US hits Microsoft hard with anti-trust fines. Again history has proven this to be the case.

    More likely 1+2. I plan to sleep soundly tonight. Now if I did own MSFT stock that would be another matter.
    You forgot the third scenario

    Business is conducted in a professional basis, the fees are paid (Fedora).

    The cup is now without tempest.
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  5. #25
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    Re: A Real Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiNZ View Post
    You forgot the third scenario

    Business is conducted in a professional basis, the fees are paid (Fedora).

    The cup is now without tempest.
    Fedora buying a Microsoft certificate from Verisign for $99 won't solve any of these problems. It will just help some Fedora users who do not need to do anything to fancy with Fedora such as install a propriety driver. It will not deter the EU nor the teenager for that matter. The stakes are much bigger here, more in the neighbourhood of $1,000,000,000 than $100.

  6. #26
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    Re: A Real Threat

    I can see the point a lot of you are making and I share the concerns with many others.

    As I said before, it isn't so much the actual UEFI that I do not want - it's the ability for one company to decide to lock a system down.

    Fedora should never have had to PAY for their OS to be run on any non-Apple computer. Why do I say non-Apple? because Apple is a completely different matter all together. They have their niche they have their products and they are happily making millions...

    I am not an attorney, nor do I work for Microsoft, nor do I even work in the tech sector (anymore). But, hell, even *I* can craft the letter of the future.

    Allow me to show you what *I* envision going down:

    Dear Hardware Vendor,

    In order to maintain the spirit of Social Responsibility we have found it necessary to enforce the standards that you previously agreed to. We believe in providing the most secure computing experience to our public users and as such feel it is of great importance that you remove the option to disable the UEFI in the products you manufacture. We feel that by allowing the end user to inadvertently deactivate the UEFI could essentially allow for the potential for the system to be compromised, exposing the user to the possible malware and virus infections, or worse. Therefore, we feel that if you are unable or unwilling to remove the option to deactivate the UEFI we will be forced to reconsider our partnership... because we care so very much about our users /snicker /snicker
    Something along those lines. When you're producing hardware that meets the requirements for the world's computers and those computers all run Windows... and Microsoft comes down on you threatening to withhold the key that you need for your firmware. What are you going to do? Sue? Give them the finger and more or less sign your company's death certificate, or go along with it to maintain your business?

    I don't think it's a stretch to guess what most vendors are going to do.

    Microsoft is making a HUGE deal about the security element of UEFI... it's ground work... since when has MS ever cared about the security of their OS's? Seriously.

    I read a lot of good answers, but a lot of people are posting it will never happen, or they're not worried about it... and that's well and good I appreciate the replies. But, you're not answering the "why" you feel that way. Besides the potential for law suits...
    Last edited by ExSuSEusr; June 6th, 2012 at 04:17 AM.
    "Only because the richest software company on the planet is utterly incompetent, and incapable of building a secure operating system. -- Carla Schroder

  7. #27
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    Re: A Real Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by ExSuSEusr View Post
    I can see the point a lot of you are making and I share the concerns with many others.

    As I said before, it isn't so much the actual UEFI that I do not want - it's the ability for one company to decide to lock a system down.

    Fedora should never have had to PAY for their OS to be run on any non-Apple computer. Why do I say non-Apple? because Apple is a completely different matter all together. They have their niche they have their products and they are happily making millions...
    Fedora should not have to PAY for thier OS to be run on ANY computer period. There is no reason to exempt Apple here. It does not matter who sells the hardware. The decision on which software is run on a computer or a device for that matter should rest only with the owner of that computer or device.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExSuSEusr View Post

    I am not an attorney, nor do I work for Microsoft, nor do I even work in the tech sector (anymore). But, hell, even *I* can craft the letter of the future.

    Allow me to show you what *I* envision going down:

    Dear Hardware Vendor,



    Something along those lines. When you're producing hardware that meets the requirements for the world's computers and those computers all run Windows... and Microsoft comes down on you threatening to withhold the key that you need for your firmware. What are you going to do? Sue? Give them the figure and more or less sign your company's death certificate, or go along with it to maintain your business?

    I don't think it's a stretch to guess what most vendors are going to do.
    Yes that is exactly what Microsoft would do if they were able to. That is why it is vital to stay vigilant

    Quote Originally Posted by ExSuSEusr View Post

    Microsoft is making a HUGE deal about the security element of UEFI... it's ground work... since when has MS ever cared about the security of their OS's? Seriously.
    It is not about security, it never was. It is about DRM; however security is a good way to "sell" it

    Quote Originally Posted by ExSuSEusr View Post


    I read a lot of good answers, but a lot of people are posting it will never happen, or they're not worried about it... and that's well and good I appreciate the replies. But, you're not answering the "why" you feel that way. Besides the potential for law suits...
    The only long term legal solution that I see here is anti-trust action. I suspect it is only a matter of time before some kind of anti-trust action happens. I also suspect that the Microsoft lock down will be cracked; however unfortunatly in many countries that will not be a legal option because of anti-circumvention laws.

  8. #28
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    Re: A Real Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. C View Post
    Fedora buying a Microsoft certificate from Verisign for $99 won't solve any of these problems. It will just help some Fedora users who do not need to do anything to fancy with Fedora such as install a propriety driver. It will not deter the EU nor the teenager for that matter. The stakes are much bigger here, more in the neighbourhood of $1,000,000,000 than $100.
    I am sorry but that pure 100% gilt edged FUD
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  9. #29
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    Re: A Real Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiNZ View Post
    I am sorry but that pure 100% gilt edged FUD
    I would not call a 899 million Euro fine FUD; however I must admit it is gilt edged.

  10. #30
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    Re: A Real Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. C View Post
    I would not call a 899 million Euro fine FUD; however I must admit it is gilt edged.
    Has nothing repeat nothing and again nothing to do with this .................................................. ...........................................
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