View Poll Results: Is Ubuntu's handling of the community troubl

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  • Yes, this is a dangerous trend they are following

    11 32.35%
  • Yes, but this is the price of success

    2 5.88%
  • Yes, but they don't listen to us anyway

    6 17.65%
  • No, this is standard practice for open source

    10 29.41%
  • No, this is the proce of success

    4 11.76%
  • Other (please describe)

    1 2.94%
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Thread: Mono removed from 12.04, developers not told?

  1. #1
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    Arrow Mono removed from 12.04, developers not told?

    Ok, I posted a thread previously about Ubuntu dropping Banshee, Tomboy and the Mono framework in 12.04 but it spun out of control and was closed by the time I got back to it.

    Now I see in a blog post by Jo Shields (Bansheegeddon) that the Banshee team was not given the courtesy of knowing beforehand?

    Regardless of the technology in question, is this becoming a trend with Canonical and/or Ubuntu? Did effected developers have to find out by a 3rd party (and a HOSTILE 3rd party at that!) that they are being dropped?

    When Banshee was first being chosen as the default, it was known for weeks or months beforehand and was under scrutiny because it had to fix a few key points to be considered.

    Then there was the redirection of funds from Amazon music purchases from the Gnome foundation to Canonical that was brought up!

    Like I said, I never really got into Mono and my feelings on the programs are mixed (and not because of the Microsoft deal). That still should not preclude being respectful and responsible when dealing with a project.

    Aren't Unity detractors citing the lack of community input? Am I the only one that sees this as a potential and dangerous trend?

    I like Ubuntu, but it seems each release there is something that is leaving a controversial bad-taste in the mouth. One time, it happens. Twice, may be a lapse in judgement. If this is becoming a pattern then that is just trouble.
    Last edited by Dragonbite; November 7th, 2011 at 06:56 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Mono removed from 12.04, developers not told?

    Mono won't be dropped; just removed from the CD. You can still install it from the repositories.
    .daniel

  3. #3
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    Re: Mono removed from 12.04, developers not told?

    Canonical is a business. They just happen to offer their software for free, but they are still a business, and are allowed to create the product they want to create. And the market will determine their success.

    They are under no obligation to consult anyone about the product that they rely upon to make money, as the risk/reward is on their shoulders. While we may feel inconvenienced by something they do, ultimately it is their livelihoods on the line...

    Consulting the community is nice, but far from essential since the community generally doesn't pay for the product. Furthermore, I'm willing to bet the amount of happy users far exceeds the vocal and critical minority. If you look at these forums you'd think Ubuntu is the least popular Linux distro, yet it's by far the most popular worldwide. When the next LTS comes around, more options are added to Unity and the storm dies down, Ubuntu will increase it's market share even more.

    And about Banshee developers, if their product is something people want, they will still download it. I personally won't, Clementine is far superior for my personal needs.

  4. #4
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    Re: Mono removed from 12.04, developers not told?

    I am not sure what is common practice for them, but I think they should have give the guys at Banshee a heads up.

    I also wouldn't mind knowing the reasons for going back to rythmbox, as I doubt it was just because they wanted to remove mono (I am sure it was the other way around).
    Do you folks like coffee?

  5. #5
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    Re: Mono removed from 12.04, developers not told?

    Ppl were asking for YEARS to get rid of mono. It doesn't matter to me now that i don't even use the default gnome3/unity desktop and use XFCE instead (without any silly mono apps!). If your app depends on mono, it should get pulled from the repos like everything else.

    I won't cry for missing tomboy, gbrainy or more recently, banshee. Too bad they also plan to not fit CDs anymore, kinda late move anyway...

    This page used to be a must follow procedure after install: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/tag/mono/

    In my opinion, the whole .net fiasco never worked. Trusting Microsoft was a huge mistake. Java is bloat, but at least delivered, .net never did and is dead.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Mono removed from 12.04, developers not told?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post
    Canonical is a business. They just happen to offer their software for free, but they are still a business, and are allowed to create the product they want to create. And the market will determine their success.

    They are under no obligation to consult anyone about the product that they rely upon to make money, as the risk/reward is on their shoulders.
    True, Canonical is a business and Ubuntu is a project. This isn't about that.

    The question is why was the Banshee (and other Mono) teams not informed that they were even being considered to be tossed (decisions like this are not on a whim, or decided overnight)?

    Even the coming of Unity had more fore-warning than this. Shows how they treat internal (Unity) verses external (Banshee) projects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis3 View Post
    Ppl were asking for YEARS to get rid of mono. It doesn't matter to me now
    But this isn't just about Mono. It's about the lack of communication and transparency which are important vital qualities of open source.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenKingpin View Post
    I also wouldn't mind knowing the reasons for going back to rythmbox, as I doubt it was just because they wanted to remove mono (I am sure it was the other way around).
    I don't know if they can cite space issues since the .iso is going to increase to 750 MB *after* this removal. Since this is larger than a CD and smaller than a 1GB USB drive or DVD (the two choices to fit this) that still gives enough room to add a framework and/or larger versions of programs.

    Watch how somebody deals with the waiter to see how they truly are, and not just when they are trying to impress and woo you.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Mono removed from 12.04, developers not told?

    I don't use playlist based players anyway. I'm rather glad banshee is out.

    next they should remove all the drivers and only load basic compatible ones, forcing you to install your recommended drivers. Oh wait, that would make the CD way too small >_>

    Hope they remove the office suite next, completely this time.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Mono removed from 12.04, developers not told?

    Yet another nonsense thread. What does dropping Banshee has to do with 'handling the community'? The decision to change the default array of applications is technical and not emotional, so you've pretty much missed the point. On the second thought, that was the intension, wasn't it.

  9. #9
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    Re: Mono removed from 12.04, developers not told?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhatever View Post
    Yet another nonsense thread. What does dropping Banshee has to do with 'handling the community'? The decision to change the default array of applications is technical and not emotional, so you've pretty much missed the point. On the second thought, that was the intension, wasn't it.
    Whether it was Banshee, LibreOffice, Pidgin, Network Manager or any other program it would be the same; Lack of communication with the project that either they were being considered to have been dropped, or even when it WAS decided to drop them.

    It's like you finding out your division is being dropped by that annoying marketing guy because he's figuring out where is motivational poster is going to go in your office!
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  10. #10
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    Re: Mono removed from 12.04, developers not told?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonbite View Post
    Now I see in a blog post by Jo Shields (Bansheegeddon) that the Banshee team was not given the courtesy of knowing beforehand?
    If they wanted to be part of the discussion, should they not have attended UDS?
    Last edited by Paqman; November 7th, 2011 at 08:09 PM.

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