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Thread: Mate Desktop Environment - GNOME2 fork

  1. #21
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    Re: Mate Desktop Environment - GNOME2 fork

    Perberos, I notice that Mate renames a lot of Gnome 2 things to mate-[whatever], and I'm wondering if it's really necessary for you to support all of them. Are you aiming to trim these off in the future? It strikes me as a bit excessive to be maintaining a duplicate of gnome-session and gnome-keyring, for example. It would probably be better for everyone if you were able to talk to the gnome-session instead.

    Also, there is no such thing as live.mate.org. Every link that was to gnome.org, which is in just about every README file in your git repository, is broken and should probably be fixed. Here's one: https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Des...session/README

    Same with your AUTHORS and MAINTAINERS files, where it's a slightly more serious problem: https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Des...anager/AUTHORS

    You might want to go through and update these manually. You should probably make it clear that the current maintainer of the Mate stuff is you (or other Mate developers), not the people who maintain the gnome- packages. They won't like it if they start getting emails from people about software they don't maintain. And you should link to the original source for each of these, because each one has its own license text. (It just happens that each one is GPL2).
    Last edited by Mr. Picklesworth; October 15th, 2011 at 03:03 AM.

  2. #22
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    Talking Re: Mate Desktop Environment - GNOME2 fork

    sed does a good work

    thanks all for the feedback

  3. #23
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    Re: Mate Desktop Environment - GNOME2 fork

    Check out regexxer, you'll love it

    Ok, jokes appart.. people touched on a couple of interesting topics.

    The name

    I fully agree with the comments made here. The name won't help brand recognition, promotion or the project to get momentum. It's a common word in English, almost slangish, which does have a few inappropriate meanings. It's not too late to change it.

    The fallback mode

    The fallback mode is not here to stay. The plan is for Gnome Shell to work with a larger set of hardware and for the fallback mode to disappear.

    In terms of UI, the fallback mode is something nobody wants. Gnome 3 enthusiasts don't like its Gnome2-like design. Gnome 2 fans hate the fact that it simply doesn't work. Of course, it works.... but it looks like it doesn't work. And the reason for this is simple... it looks and gives people the impression they're running Gnome 2, only they're not. They're actually running Gnome 3 on top of GTK3 and without compatibility with Bonobo and panel applets. Once the user understands he can use the Alt key to interact with the panel, he gets a bit of false hopes... until he goes further and realize no Bonobo Gnome applet will run on this Fallback mode. To Mint users, basically, that means no mintMenu.

    Why would we port mintMenu to GTK3 and DBUS just to make it work with fallback mode when this mode is set to disappear and we've got a stable 2.32 base which isn't going to change in the future? It would make no sense.

    Gnome 3 itself

    Mate and Gnome 3 can be run on the same system. If they can't right now, at least they will be in the future.

    Gnome 3 is a fantastic piece of technology and it's also a brand new desktop. It's something we can extend and improve with our own ideas, whether it's via extensions, configuration or even by porting applications such as mintMenu to work with Gnome Shell.

    As far as we're concerned we want to get started with Gnome 3, but we also want to continue to provide what is still the most popular Linux desktop out there: Gnome 2.32.

    5 years from now do we plan on using Gnome 2? Well... what's the thing you want the most this month? Five years ago, were you even thinking about it?

    So 5 years from now, we'll be doing the exact same thing as we're doing now: We'll choose the best components for our users. Today this includes both Gnome 2 and Gnome 3.

  4. #24
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    Re: Mate Desktop Environment - GNOME2 fork

    Perberos, about the conflicts:

    The files which conflict still need to be there in Mate, so people can run Mate without depending on Gnome. If someone has both installed, then of course, only one is needed.

    The way to do this is by defining a new package in which we put all the conflicting files, for instance mate-overlap, which conflicts with gnome-doc-utils.

    Then you remove these files from mate-doc-utils and make mate-doc-utils depend on "mate-overlap | gnome-doc-utils".

    This way, Mate users get the files via mate-overlap, Gnome users get them via gnome-doc-utils. People who use both Gnome 3 and Mate have mate-doc-utils and gnome-doc-utils installed.

  5. #25
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    Re: Mate Desktop Environment - GNOME2 fork

    mate-dialogs has no distro/ubuntu/build script..

  6. #26
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    Re: Mate Desktop Environment - GNOME2 fork

    Compilation error with mate-file-manager:

    make all-recursive
    make[1]: Entering directory `/home/clem/Mate-Desktop-Environment/mate-file-manager/distro/ubuntu/src/mate-file-manager'
    Making all in eel
    make[2]: Entering directory `/home/clem/Mate-Desktop-Environment/mate-file-manager/distro/ubuntu/src/mate-file-manager/eel'
    CC eel-alert-dialog.lo
    In file included from eel-alert-dialog.c:24:0:
    eel-i18n.h:31:16: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'char'
    eel-alert-dialog.c: In function 'eel_alert_dialog_class_init':
    eel-alert-dialog.c:114:43: warning: passing argument 2 of 'g_param_spec_int' makes pointer from integer without a cast [enabled by default]
    /usr/include/glib-2.0/gobject/gparamspecs.h:993:13: note: expected 'const gchar *' but argument is of type 'int'
    eel-alert-dialog.c:114:43: warning: passing argument 3 of 'g_param_spec_int' makes pointer from integer without a cast [enabled by default]
    /usr/include/glib-2.0/gobject/gparamspecs.h:993:13: note: expected 'const gchar *' but argument is of type 'int'
    eel-alert-dialog.c:123:35: warning: passing argument 2 of 'g_param_spec_enum' makes pointer from integer without a cast [enabled by default]
    /usr/include/glib-2.0/gobject/gparamspecs.h:1040:13: note: expected 'const gchar *' but argument is of type 'int'
    eel-alert-dialog.c:123:35: warning: passing argument 3 of 'g_param_spec_enum' makes pointer from integer without a cast [enabled by default]
    /usr/include/glib-2.0/gobject/gparamspecs.h:1040:13: note: expected 'const gchar *' but argument is of type 'int'
    eel-alert-dialog.c:132:35: warning: passing argument 2 of 'g_param_spec_enum' makes pointer from integer without a cast [enabled by default]
    /usr/include/glib-2.0/gobject/gparamspecs.h:1040:13: note: expected 'const gchar *' but argument is of type 'int'
    eel-alert-dialog.c:132:35: warning: passing argument 3 of 'g_param_spec_enum' makes pointer from integer without a cast [enabled by default]
    /usr/include/glib-2.0/gobject/gparamspecs.h:1040:13: note: expected 'const gchar *' but argument is of type 'int'
    eel-alert-dialog.c: In function 'eel_alert_dialog_init':
    eel-alert-dialog.c:193:2: warning: passing argument 1 of 'gtk_expander_new_with_mnemonic' makes pointer from integer without a cast [enabled by default]
    /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtkexpander.h:66:23: note: expected 'const gchar *' but argument is of type 'int'
    make[2]: *** [eel-alert-dialog.lo] Error 1
    make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/clem/Mate-Desktop-Environment/mate-file-manager/distro/ubuntu/src/mate-file-manager/eel'
    make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
    make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/clem/Mate-Desktop-Environment/mate-file-manager/distro/ubuntu/src/mate-file-manager'
    make: *** [all] Error 2

    Note that I didn't compile/install mate-dialogs (because of the missing build script). I don't know if it's related.

  7. #27
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    Re: Mate Desktop Environment - GNOME2 fork

    I'm sorry if I'm don't completely grasp the technical aspects of this discussion.
    So I apologise in advance if I have misunderstood something here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Clement Lefebvre View Post
    Gnome 3 is a fantastic piece of technology and it's also a brand new desktop. It's something we can extend and improve with our own ideas, whether it's via extensions, configuration or even by porting applications such as mintMenu to work with Gnome Shell.
    You mean that the traditional Mint interface will be like before, but that it somehow
    is built on top of Gnome Shell? Or that you will use Gnome Shell as it is, with a few
    minor changes?

    Why would we port mintMenu to GTK3 and DBUS just to make it work with fallback mode when this mode is set to disappear and we've got a stable 2.32 base which isn't going to change in the future? It would make no sense.
    [...]
    Mate and Gnome 3 can be run on the same system. If they can't right now, at least they will be in the future.
    So what you're describing here is:
    a) a tweaked and customised version of Gnome3/Gnome Shell that looks like Gnome2?
    b) Traditional Gnome2 instead of the Gnome3 fallback mode.

    In other words Gnome3/2 running on the same system... Or did I misunderstand something here?

  8. #28
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    Re: Mate Desktop Environment - GNOME2 fork

    @Perberos: I agree with the other guys that you ought to find a new name for your
    project. Why not have an informal naming contest? I'm sure this community ought to
    be able to come up with a few nice suggestions!

    What about Tapajós?
    Last edited by Dry Lips; October 13th, 2011 at 03:03 PM.

  9. #29
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    Re: Mate Desktop Environment - GNOME2 fork

    @Pinguy:

    On your blog you write:

    "For one I am asking for a Gnome 3 port. Not Gnome 2. Also in that article
    you barely explain anything. Just that you can kinda make Gnome 3 look
    like Gnome 2. I can do a better job then what you have to make Gnome 3
    look more like Gnome 2. But I am using an older version of gnome-panel.
    The one that works.
    [...]
    I want to see an updated Gnome 2.3 that is using GTK3. Thats all. Nothing
    more nothing less. A true fallback mode that mimics Gnome 2.3 exactly but
    has all the latest advantages of Gnome Shell. This way any app made for
    Gnome Shell will work with the Gnome 2.3 clone."

    I believe that if someone are going to fork Gnome3, why not continue to
    develop it further? I too think that a fork of Gnome3 that looks similar to
    Gnome2 is something that is sorely needed, but I also think that traditional
    Gnome2 has room for improvement. Gnome2 is by far my favourite DE,
    but I don't think that it ought to “freeze” and be left untouched for time and
    eternity. A gnome2 like interface ought to be developed further. One thing
    that I personally would love to see, is support for KDE-like widgets, although
    I'm sure that it would be an ambitious project to implement.
    (I'm no programmer) As long as Xfce is available as a lightweight DE,
    I dream of an alternative to Gnome3/KDE that is continually developed
    and improved.

    If a complete fork of Gnome3 is too ambitious, then the next best thing
    would be a heavily tweaked Gnome3, in other words something that looks
    like the fallback mode.

  10. #30
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    Re: Mate Desktop Environment - GNOME2 fork

    Quote Originally Posted by Clement Lefebvre View Post
    Why would we port mintMenu to GTK3 and DBUS just to make it work with fallback mode when this mode is set to disappear and we've got a stable 2.32 base which isn't going to change in the future? It would make no sense.
    Wouldn't porting to Gtk3 + new panel lib and maintaining gnome-panel 3 (if is ever dropped) alongside the current version of every other Gnome module be a lot less effort than maintaining the entirety of Gnome 2 on an inferior UI toolkit + Bonobo?
    Last edited by Mr. Picklesworth; October 13th, 2011 at 03:14 PM.

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