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Thread: Partition Manager: Unable to resize linux partition to use free space BEFORE partitio

  1. #21
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    Re: Partition Manager: Unable to resize linux partition to use free space BEFORE part

    Quote Originally Posted by iclestu View Post
    No, its partition manager. Hence the name of my post and the tags in the thread. No doubt you are correct about GParted being the prefered option of the majority of users
    Your use of an obscure program that few people on this forum use is causing a lot of problems. Jerrys' posts, in particular, have been based on a mental model of GParted, and have therefore not helped you.

    but then Gnome is the prefered desktop environment of most users. I use KDE and therefore I am trying to alter my partition with KDE's tool which is, I am sure, up to the job.
    Apparently it's not. Based on your description of its behavior, it seems to have a user interface bug that's preventing it from doing what it should be doing. I haven't looked at KDE's partitioning tools in a while, but the last time I did, they lagged GParted by quite a lot. If this is an offshoot of KParted, it seems that it still lags behind GParted.

    Also, you should not get hung up on KDE vs. GNOME issues, particularly not when it comes to the utility of specific programs for specific tasks that aren't particularly related to the desktop. Personally, I use Xfce for my desktop; but I run GParted (loosely associated with GNOME), Konqueror (part of KDE), KDevelop (associated with KDE), NEdit (associated with no desktop environment), and other tools as necessary. Restricting yourself to just the tools that are associated with your chosen desktop environment is counterproductive. The bottom line:

    Use what works.

    I dont think it is the tool that is the issue here....
    I won't go so far as to say that I'm certain the tool is the issue, but the evidence is leaning heavily in that direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by srs5694
    although you've changed the "Free space before" field, the "Size" field hasn't changed. This can sometimes happen if, as it appears you did, you change one field by typing its entry and don't click in another field. Clicking in another field registers your change and usually causes the program to recompute anything it needs to recompute.
    This isnt it.... It is greyed out no matter where i click.
    This is why I now think you're dealing with a program with a user interface bug: That value should change. Changing correlated values when you update one in a dialog box is a job of the user interface code in the program. I can't see how such a problem could arise because of damaged partition table information, but I can see how it could arise because of a user interface bug. (BTW, I've programmed both simple GUI tools and moderately complex partitioning programs, so I understand the coding issues involved and where bugs are likely to creep in.)

    The only reason I'm not certain it's a user interface bug is because I haven't interacted with the program on your computer. It's conceivable that you've misunderstood how to use the user interface -- or, looked at another way, that the user interface is so poorly designed that its intended method of use is very unclear. In that case, it might not be a bug, just a poor/obscure user interface.

    Along those lines, have you tried:


    • Clicking the up and down arrow symbols on the right edges of the fields?
    • Clicking the image in the top of the dialog box to see if you can change the partition's size by a drag operation?
    If I've suggested a solution to a problem and you're not the original poster, do not try my solution! Problems can seem similar but be different, and a good solution to one problem can make another worse. Post a new thread with your problem details.

  2. #22
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    Re: Partition Manager: Unable to resize linux partition to use free space BEFORE part

    ARRRRRR i will learn to read, i will learn to read, i will learn to read, i will learn to read and i will write this a 1000 more times on the blackboard

  3. #23
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    Re: Partition Manager: Unable to resize linux partition to use free space BEFORE part

    Quote Originally Posted by srs5694 View Post
    Your use of an obscure program that few people on this forum use is causing a lot of problems

    Jerrys' posts, in particular, have been based on a mental model of GParted, and have therefore not helped you.



    Apparently it's not. Based on your description of its behavior, it seems to have a user interface bug that's preventing it from doing what it should be doing. I haven't looked at KDE's partitioning tools in a while, but the last time I did, they lagged GParted by quite a lot. If this is an offshoot of KParted, it seems that it still lags behind GParted.

    Also, you should not get hung up on KDE vs. GNOME issues, particularly not when it comes to the utility of specific programs for specific tasks that aren't particularly related to the desktop. Personally, I use Xfce for my desktop; but I run GParted (loosely associated with GNOME), Konqueror (part of KDE), KDevelop (associated with KDE), NEdit (associated with no desktop environment), and other tools as necessary. Restricting yourself to just the tools that are associated with your chosen desktop environment is counterproductive. The bottom line:

    Use what works.
    Hey there. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

    I think some of the above is perhaps a little unfair.

    The TITLE of my original post described the program I am trying to use.

    It is the default partitioning utility that ships with kubuntu (the prefix to my thread) so it is questionable to say it is obscure and imply that this obscurity is causing problems. I am sure you would agree that the kubuntu project team would expect/hope/want their utility to work. Therefore, as an end user, I think it is fair game to bring support issues with that program to these forums? I made the point of giving my thread an appropriate title including the name of the utility to make a distinction between "I can't alter the partitioning of my hard drive" from "I am having trouble using the Partition Manager utility".

    I am not hung up on KDE vs Gnome. Not at all. If resizing this partition was critical I would have looked at Gparted long ago. That, and any other utility I could find on google. If that didnt work my support request would have sounded much more like - help! I cant change the partitions on my hard drive, I have tried, xyz utilities with no success.

    The reason for using partition manager rather than gparted in first instance is simply that this is the utility that is on my (kubuntu) live cd.... Admitedly, my response to Jerry's post earlier could have made this point much clearer.

    I don't think that it is in my interest, or in the interest of the community at large, to not investigate and discuss issues I have using supplied software for its intended purpose. Maybe I am getting the wrong end of the stick but, to me, the tone of your post seems to imply that I should simply have installed gparted and used that to accomplish my task. Would it not be better to post my issues here, discuss them with more knowledgable members, then if I find the problem is indeed in the software and not my setup (or indeed in my understanding) I can post a bug to launchpad to alert the appropriate project teams??

    Quote Originally Posted by srs5694 View Post
    I won't go so far as to say that I'm certain the tool is the issue, but the evidence is leaning heavily in that direction.

    This is why I now think you're dealing with a program with a user interface bug: That value should change. Changing correlated values when you update one in a dialog box is a job of the user interface code in the program. I can't see how such a problem could arise because of damaged partition table information, but I can see how it could arise because of a user interface bug. (BTW, I've programmed both simple GUI tools and moderately complex partitioning programs, so I understand the coding issues involved and where bugs are likely to creep in.)
    this is exactly what i mean. As a (fairly) novice user I do not have your experience to confidently make that distinction between my errors, the applications errors and problems with my hardware. I am very grateful that you have given me these details because now I can file the bug report with confidence that im not wasting the project teams time.

    Quote Originally Posted by srs5694 View Post

    The only reason I'm not certain it's a user interface bug is because I haven't interacted with the program on your computer. It's conceivable that you've misunderstood how to use the user interface -- or, looked at another way, that the user interface is so poorly designed that its intended method of use is very unclear. In that case, it might not be a bug, just a poor/obscure user interface.

    Along those lines, have you tried:


    • Clicking the up and down arrow symbols on the right edges of the fields?
    • Clicking the image in the top of the dialog box to see if you can change the partition's size by a drag operation?
    I have attempted the first of these to no avail. I will give the second one a shot when I am back at my desktop pc later on and post my results.

    Is there any way i can confirm that my partition table is ok? In your experience, is there any output that the guys at launchpad would want to see?

  4. #24
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    Re: Partition Manager: Unable to resize linux partition to use free space BEFORE part

    It might be worth your while to get a liveCD with GParted. Parted magic is one I keep on hand, and GParted itself has a liveCD version.

    If one of these works where Partition Editor doesn't, then it does start to look like a problem with the latter.
    Please, people, remember to BACKUP before you install that new system. Same if you're upgrading.

    Ubuntu membership via Forums contributions

  5. #25
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    Re: Partition Manager: Unable to resize linux partition to use free space BEFORE part

    Quote Originally Posted by Irihapeti;10888251
    It might be worth your while to get a liveCD with GParted.
    Parted magic is one I keep on hand, and GParted itself has a liveCD version.
    . . .
    Iri,
    Good idea.
    Parted-Magic Live-CD will load into RAM,
    then work on the HD totally un-mounted.

    Ice,
    With gParted-Magic running in RAM,
    and the HD Linux system totally un-mounted,
    there is no inter-action between the running OS (on the HD) and the gParted routines.

    IMHO,
    Good step in the right direction.
    I have used Parted-Magic Live-CD to RESIZE and to MOVE partitions on several computers.
    Patrick Verneer is the developing engineer for Parted-Magic, with website and forums for the programs.
    In reading, it is evident that there are LIMITATIONS on what you can do to a partition, and possibilities.
    First, I bought a Parted-Magic Live-CD from OSDisc,
    but down-loaded later versions to burn.
    HTH,
    缀皵榒敯鹤__Glene77is__缀皵榒敯鹤 _{^,^}_

  6. #26
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    Re: Partition Manager: Unable to resize linux partition to use free space BEFORE part

    Quote Originally Posted by iclestu View Post
    The TITLE of my original post described the program I am trying to use.
    "Partition Manager" sounds like a generic name, and without a clear identification that it's not GParted, it would be the assumption of most readers of this forum that you meant GParted, simply because GParted is so dominant in this realm.

    It is the default partitioning utility that ships with kubuntu (the prefix to my thread) so it is questionable to say it is obscure and imply that this obscurity is causing problems.
    I certainly didn't mean to say that the program's obscurity was the source of its bugs, although now that I think about it, that might be true -- a program with few users will collect few bug reports and attract few developers, both of which are required to fix bugs.

    My use of the word "obscure," and the "problems" I said it caused, were instead in reference to the miscommunication here.

    I am sure you would agree that the kubuntu project team would expect/hope/want their utility to work. Therefore, as an end user, I think it is fair game to bring support issues with that program to these forums?
    Sure; but if you get consistent responses that the program you're using is buggy, or if nobody knows anything about it, and everybody suggests you use another program, you are well-advised to use that other program.

    I don't think that it is in my interest, or in the interest of the community at large, to not investigate and discuss issues I have using supplied software for its intended purpose. Maybe I am getting the wrong end of the stick but, to me, the tone of your post seems to imply that I should simply have installed gparted and used that to accomplish my task.
    That's not the tone of my earlier post, that's the major point of my earlier post. That's not meant to be insulting or offensive; it's meant to be helpful and practical.

    Two distinct motivations have emerged from in thread, and it's important to distinguish between them:


    • As a practical matter to solve your problem now, it's best to switch to a partitioning program that works. This is the goal of most people posting to this forum, and so it's the default mindset of most people who offer suggestions. It's also the point of departure for my own previous posts to this thread.
    • As a matter of improving the open source software ecosystem generally, and for KDE Partition Manager specifically, filing a bug report (or, better yet if you have the skill, locating the bug and submitting a patch to the developers) is the best approach. Unless you can fix the bug yourself, though, this will not solve the problem immediately, but it might help to improve the program in the future.



    Applying these two motives produces different responses to specific questions, such as "what should I do?" Most of the responses people have made have been biased toward the first motive; but it's becoming apparent that you're at least as concerned with the second. If so, you should certainly file a bug report in the hopes that the KDE Partition Manager will be improved in the future.

    Is there any way i can confirm that my partition table is ok? In your experience, is there any output that the guys at launchpad would want to see?
    There are two good ways to test the validity of a partition table, in my experience:


    • Run GNU Parted (command name "parted") or GParted on the disk. These utilities tend to flake out and report no partitions when the partition table has the slightest error. This seems to be a bug in libparted, upon which the utility you used is also based, but it might react differently, so I'd still advise using GNU Parted or GParted. If they show partitions, then the partition table is fine.
    • Use fdisk to examine the partitions with sector precision, as in "sudo fdisk -lu /dev/sda". You can then examine the partition table data manually to locate overlapping partitions, partitions that extend beyond the end of the disk, and other problems. This requires you to understand some of the things that can go wrong, though. The KDE Partition Manager developers might want to see this output, but I suspect you'd have a hard time identifying errors in it.
    If I've suggested a solution to a problem and you're not the original poster, do not try my solution! Problems can seem similar but be different, and a good solution to one problem can make another worse. Post a new thread with your problem details.

  7. #27
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    Re: Partition Manager: Unable to resize linux partition to use free space BEFORE part

    Quote Originally Posted by srs5694 View Post
    Big post
    Yeah - fair enough.

    You are absolutely correct about the 2 motivations and although you don't explicitly state it in your post (perhaps forum etiquette and good manners prevented you? ) you would have been correct to assert that the lack of clarity as to which was motivating me at any one time is, for the most part, my fault My apologies. I hope I have not caused offense.

    I am grateful for the suggestions (feeding BOTH motivations) and as soon as I get the opportunity I will post the next steps from both.

  8. #28
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    Re: Partition Manager: Unable to resize linux partition to use free space BEFORE part

    Quote Originally Posted by srs5694 View Post
    Along those lines, have you tried:


    • Clicking the up and down arrow symbols on the right edges of the fields?
    • Clicking the image in the top of the dialog box to see if you can change the partition's size by a drag operation?


    The latter of these worked! (well, to an extent!). The gui allowed me to do it and proceed (which wasnt happening before). Adjusting the 'free space before' field definetely SHOULD work though? The little arrows didnt work either.

    Ok, so that got me as far as trying to commit the changes to my drive and I got this error:

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    KDE Control Module: Operation Report

    Date: 06/01/11 03:31 PM Program version:
    LibParted version: 2.3 KDE version: 4.5.2 (KDE 4.5.2) Machine: Linux ubuntu 2.6.38-8-generic #42-Ubuntu SMP Mon Apr 11 03:31:50 UTC 2011 i686 User ID: 0
    Move partition ‘/dev/sda4’ to the left by 28.98 GiB and grow it from 92.82 GiB to 121.80 GiB Job: Check file system on partition ‘/dev/sda4’
    Check file system on partition ‘/dev/sda4’: Success

    Job: Set geometry of partition ‘/dev/sda4’: Start sector: 351,775,305, length: 255,433,500 Could not set geometry for partition ‘/dev/sda4’ while trying to resize/move it.

    Set geometry of partition ‘/dev/sda4’: Start sector: 351,775,305, length: 255,433,500: Error

    Moving extended partition ‘/dev/sda4’ failed.

    Move partition ‘/dev/sda4’ to the left by 28.98 GiB and grow it from 92.82 GiB to 121.80 GiB: Error

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sooooo - I installed Gparted with the live cd! lol.

    Seems there are two unrelated things at work as Gparted shows an error with the Windows partition. See attached. in retrospect, i notice that neither utility showed the free space in this partition..... I am guessing this is what is causing the above error and that the gui bug is unrelated?

    So next up I file a bug report for the gui issue anyways, yeah? and separately I boot into windows (groaaannnn - i KNOW how many updates its waiting on, been a while!) and do a couple of chkdsk's as suggested by Gparted then see if I can change it?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #29
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    Re: Partition Manager: Unable to resize linux partition to use free space BEFORE part

    In the meantime........

    Quote Originally Posted by Irihapeti View Post
    It might be worth your while to get a liveCD with GParted. Parted magic is one I keep on hand, and GParted itself has a liveCD version.

    If one of these works where Partition Editor doesn't, then it does start to look like a problem with the latter.
    sounds like a really handy thing to have lying around! | DONE!

  10. #30
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    Re: Partition Manager: Unable to resize linux partition to use free space BEFORE part

    Bug report filed for the GUI issue:

    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...er/+bug/791474

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