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Thread: Unity MEGA Thread

  1. #701
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    Re: Stop Unity... Yes? No?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldor View Post
    No. Some of us are just sick of people whining over useless stuff that doesn't matter. GNOME 2 will still be on the default installation, so there's NO ISSUE AT ALL with Unity. If you don't like it, relogin with GNOME. It really is that simple.
    It's not a useless distinction. It does matter.

    You may want Unity, but that doesn't make it true for everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldor View Post
    Also, how can you judge how "usable" it is? The thing isn't even out yet and only just made it to Alpha.
    The screenshots are sufficient basis for a judgment. It consumes more screen real estate, more resources, and gets in the way of quick access.

    I don't have to test drive a car to know I don't want it in pink and have no use for four doors.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldor View Post
    It really just shows people will just complain and fright over the slightest hint of change. Like really, everyone here goes on about how Linux can let you do anything and how you can customize it.

    If you don't like Unity, don't use the ****ing thing!
    That's a straw man.

    G2 is FOSS and can be freely built and run by anyone so inclined.

    That doesn't impact resentment towards the ivory towers telling people what they're supposed to like, or buzz-hungry users with bad attitudes towards anyone who is fine as is, and who has no use for the next greatest thing.

  2. #702
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    Re: Stop Unity... Yes? No?

    The FUD being spewed is coming from those claiming GNOME 2 is somehow broken or not able to do something critical. There is no fundamental problem with it, only users who want bright and shiny over clean and simple.
    Who would say that about Gnome 2!? It's not like GNOME 2.00 is old and riddled with unmaintained components like Bonobo, and the panel behaves like a **** when resized, and its memory footprint is way bigger than it should be, and it doesn't supports multiple wallpapers, but no, it's awesome, absolutely. It's also so much simpler than Unity, with its application launchers separate from the window list, and settings and applications hidden in incredibly long, unsearchable menus.

    Anyway, whether you like it or not, Gnome 2.0 is being deprecated, and that's not Canonical's fault. Now the choice is between maintaining Gnome 2.0, which Gnome developers will probably tell you would be hell. or following along with Gnome and using Gnome Shell, or doing their own thing, while still using the Gnome 3 framework.

    Canonical chose the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference, if you ask me.
    Quote Originally Posted by madjr View Post
    maybe hes asking for gubuntu : the gshell version
    Well, Gnome Shell is in the Software Center. I don't see the point in creating a separate distribution for it, since the underlying framework is exactly the same.

  3. #703
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    Re: Stop Unity... Yes? No?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldor View Post
    No. Some of us are just sick of people whining over useless stuff that doesn't matter. GNOME 2 will still be on the default installation, so there's NO ISSUE AT ALL with Unity. If you don't like it, relogin with GNOME. It really is that simple.

    Also, how can you judge how "usable" it is? The thing isn't even out yet and only just made it to Alpha.

    It really just shows people will just complain and fright over the slightest hint of change. Like really, everyone here goes on about how Linux can let you do anything and how you can customize it.

    If you don't like Unity, don't use the ****ing thing!
    @kaldor dont get pissed off,
    while @czr114 is a smart guy and he knows that gnome classic will be available, so all he's doing now is trolling...
    Last edited by madjr; December 4th, 2010 at 09:51 PM.
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  4. #704
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    Re: Stop Unity... Yes? No?

    It's not a useless distinction. It does matter.

    You may want Unity, but that doesn't make it true for everyone.
    Where did I say I want Unity? I don't even use Ubuntu. The point isn't about what *I* want, it's about people being able to choose what they want but would rather whine and moan about it.

    @the previous poster: Not getting pissed off, just tired of seeing these threads every time something evolves

  5. #705
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    Re: Stop Unity... Yes? No?

    Ignore him if you think he is just disagreeing with you for the sake of it.

  6. #706
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    Re: Stop Unity... Yes? No?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCLI View Post
    Who would say that about Gnome 2!? It's not like GNOME 2.00 is old and riddled with unmaintained components like Bonobo, and the panel behaves like a **** when resized, and its memory footprint is way bigger than it should be, and it doesn't supports multiple wallpapers, but no, it's awesome, absolutely. It's also so much simpler than Unity, with its application launchers separate from the window list, and settings and applications hidden in incredibly long, unsearchable menus.
    Thank you for proving my point. Rather than polish out the problems, the Unity and Gshell teams have both decided to completely overhaul the UI.

    The "issues" you claim with wallpapers and application launchers are a matter of personal preference; don't confuse them with problems like resource waste.

    Rather than making great software even better, development energy is being spent on brand new bells and whistles.

    Now are you starting to understand why the "G2 will always be available" line of reasoning is a fallacy. The ivory towers have chosen to depreciate the G2 concept in favor of the replacement which everyone is expected to deal with.

    They could have rewritten the subsystem, fixed all the problems, and called it G3. That's not what is happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by NCLI View Post
    Anyway, whether you like it or not, Gnome 2.0 is being deprecated
    Enough said. That's why the "if you like G2 you can still use it" is complete rubbish.

    The choice, going forward, has been decreed to be between chasing OSX and running a depreciated project.

    Perhaps now you can understand the hostility.

    Quote Originally Posted by NCLI View Post
    Well, Gnome Shell is in the Software Center. I don't see the point in creating a separate distribution for it, since the underlying framework is exactly the same.
    Again, I'm neither defending nor advocating for GNOME Shell.

  7. #707
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    Re: Stop Unity... Yes? No?

    Quote Originally Posted by czr114 View Post
    So are many other vegetables. A person can get his servings of healthy vegetables without ever touching asparagus. Same for DEs.
    Obviously, but why is offering a new vegetable to you for free, while still keeping the existing choices, such a bad thing?

    I'm attacking the idea that Unity is somehow an absolute improvement or progression, rather than a simple shift in the UI paradigm.
    It's certainly a simplification. I have installed Ubuntu for several people, and generally, the less they understand computers, the more they like it. That's a good thing if you ask me, since us experienced users can always just install our preferred DE.

    Code:
    FF4 will be better than FF3. Ext3 was a better general-purpose filesystem than ext2. Unity is simply different.
    Why do you call them better? Isn't that just your personal opinion? Unity is faster, lighter(Compiz Unity) and doesn't rely on deprecated frameworks. It also changes the UI significantly, but so does FF4, and many people rebel against that as well, because they don't like it. That doesn't mean it's bad, not design is for everyone, that's why we have so many different DE's.

    There is a lot of bias favoring change for the sake of change.
    Not sake for the sake of change, but more choices for the sake of more choices.



    Quote Originally Posted by czr114 View Post
    It's not a useless distinction. It does matter.
    Now you're just being plain stubborn. Gnome 2.0 will still be there, and if people want it, someone will maintain it.

    You may want Unity, but that doesn't make it true for everyone.
    You may not want Unity, but that doesn't make it true for everyone.
    The screenshots are sufficient basis for a judgment.
    Bull****.
    It consumes more screen real estate,
    Hey look, autohide. What were you saying about "screenshots being enough"?
    more resources
    Source please.

    and gets in the way of quick access.
    How is one click to access any application(After adding it to the launcher) "getting in the way of quick access"?
    I don't have to test drive a car to know I don't want it in pink and have no use for four doors.
    No, but you do have to drive it to know its handling, seat comfort, noise level, etc.

    That's a straw man.
    No it isn't, it's a fact.

    G2 is FOSS and can be freely built and run by anyone so inclined.
    So can Unity, your point being?

    That doesn't impact resentment towards the ivory towers telling people what they're supposed to like, or buzz-hungry users with bad attitudes towards anyone who is fine as is, and who has no use for the next greatest thing.
    I would agree with you if the Gnome panels were being removed from the software center, but they aren't. They're available in the default install, you don't even have to look at Unity!

  8. #708
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    Re: Stop Unity... Yes? No?

    Quote Originally Posted by madjr View Post
    @czr114 is a smart guy and he knows that gnome classic will be available, so all he's doing now is trolling...
    That is an unwarranted personal attack. Both sides here are in agreement that classic will be depreciated, yet you accuse me of "trolling" for lamenting the loss of ongoing development and support for classic (which I, and many others, have no problem with) in favor of new bells and whistles.

    The UI paradigm shift and the ongoing code development/improvement are not one in the same. We can have the latter without scrapping the classic UI. That was an available choice, which was not made due to the push to change up the UI for the hell of it.

  9. #709
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    Re: Stop Unity... Yes? No?

    Quote Originally Posted by czr114 View Post
    Thank you for proving my point. Rather than polish out the problems, the Unity and Gshell teams have both decided to completely overhaul the UI.
    Because trying to work on the old, bloated codebase is way harder and takes way more time than just starting from scratch. This mentality is the reason why Windows became worse and worse until recently.
    The "issues" you claim with wallpapers and application launchers are a matter of personal preference; don't confuse them with problems like resource waste.
    How is it a personal preference to dislike complicated menus, and lacking functionality?
    Rather than making great software even better, development energy is being spent on brand new bells and whistles.
    Because that gets you more bang for your buck.

    Now are you starting to understand why the "G2 will always be available" line of reasoning is a fallacy. The ivory towers have chosen to depreciate the G2 concept in favor of the replacement which everyone is expected to deal with.
    The nice people who are growing cucumbers for you and giving them to you for free have decided to grow asparagus instead. However, they offer to give you the seeds they used for free, so that you can continue to grow them yourself.

    What exactly are you complaining about?

    They could have rewritten the subsystem, fixed all the problems, and called it G3. That's not what is happening.
    Yes, and then Gnome 3 wouldn't be ready for many years to come.

    Enough said. That's why the "if you like G2 you can still use it" is complete rubbish.
    No it isn't, the community will just have to maintain it. Perhaps there will be less love for Gnome 2 once people start actually working with the code.

    The choice, going forward, has been decreed to be between chasing OSX and running a depreciated project.
    Which, if enough people want it, will no doubt be maintained by the community.

    Also, why do you ignore xfce, KDE, lxde, enlightenment, fluxbox, openbox, blackbox, etc?

    Perhaps now you can understand the hostility.
    Nope.

  10. #710
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    Re: Stop Unity... Yes? No?


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