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Thread: Hardy -> Lucid upgrade from Live CD. Questions on what survives without reinstall.

  1. #21
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    Re: Hardy -> Lucid upgrade from Live CD. Questions on what survives without reinstall

    Sorry to take so horribly long. I got sidetracked a few times with unrelated issues. Like I somewhat wasted several hours trying to sort out what appeared to be a brasero bug in Maverick and then found out it was due to a conflict with gthumb. I guess no time is truly wasted but I certainly accomplished nothing other than learning of the conflict

    Anyway, one thing at a time. Regarding your GPU I Googled "Radeon 9200 PRO ubuntu lucid" and the first thing to pop up was this:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1558258

    Hardly helpful because it's marked solved but with no comment. Rather than list a bunch of my search results I'd suggest you do the same. The only thing I see in the release notes regarding ATI is this:

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/Re...aphics%20cards

    Regardless that's one of the main reasons I prefer a dual/multi-boot. If a new OS gives me some trouble I needn't fiddle around past the point of frustration. I can just boot into the old OS and go back to sorting out the new one at my leisure.

    About the zsync thing, I'm not that smart, and I'm also visually impaired, so I try to keep things "dumbed down" for my own sake

    First install the package "zsync" using your preferred method.

    I see you have the 10.04.1 iso in:

    AllMine/Technical/2011-02-14-ubuntu-10.04.1-desktop-i386.iso
    But I'm foggy as to your method of file/folder management so the simplest way to do this is to copy the old iso (2011-02-14-ubuntu-10.04.1-desktop-i386.iso) to your home folder and then rename it to match the new iso as listed here:

    http://releases.ubuntu.com/lucid/

    ie:

    Code:
    ubuntu-10.04.2-desktop-i386.iso
    The name MUST match that of the file you're downloading EXACTLY! Then look for the link on that page, ubuntu-10.04.2-desktop-i386.iso.zsync, right click the link and select "Copy Link Location", then open the terminal and type:

    Code:
    zsync
    Hit the space bar and then right click again and select paste. Things should look like this:

    Code:
    lance@lance-desktop:~$ zsync http://releases.ubuntu.com/lucid/ubuntu-10.04.2-desktop-i386.iso.zsync
    #################### 100.0% 275.3 kBps DONE     
    
    reading seed file ubuntu-10.04.2-desktop-i386.iso: *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************Read ubuntu-10.04.2-desktop-i386.iso. Target 68.9% complete.      
    downloading from http://releases.ubuntu.com/lucid/ubuntu-10.04.2-desktop-i386.iso:
    #################### 100.0% 570.5 kBps DONE      
    
    verifying download...checksum matches OK
    used 496021504 local, fetched 224689483
    If the existing file is named improperly you'd see this:

    Screenshot-2.png

    In that case just hit Ctrl + C to kill the process and recheck the file name

    I did get Hardy installed and I'll soon be back with more instructions regarding partitioning, installing, etc.

    Do let me know if anything I've posted so far is confusing, and thanks for being patient.

  2. #22
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    Re: Hardy -> Lucid upgrade from Live CD. Questions on what survives without reinstall

    Brief note, while performing the repartitioning I remembered you saying this:

    My disks are all ext3 - just so you know; it shouldn't make any difference.
    I'm still using ext3 for anything important due to this:

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/Re...in%20workloads

    Therefore I still use ext3 for anything of importance! I experienced a minor loss of data when I first played with ext4 and I'm now holding out for btrfs

    I prefer stability to a few milliseconds of speed. I'm the slowest part of my computer anyway.

  3. #23
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    Re: Hardy -> Lucid upgrade from Live CD. Questions on what survives without reinstall

    kansasnoob

    Certainly agree with your comment about stability.

    Issues with Video had not occurred to me. It seemed OK with 15 minutes fiddling on the live CD. Hardy only offers me 2 resolutions but the Lucid Live CD offered about 10 and 4 of the 5 I tried worked.

    I move files around with drag/drop in Nautilus - no chance of a typo. I have a large number of folders which are logically named (well, it works for me).

    So far, so good.

    zsync has completed (35 min to download) and reports checksum is OK.
    Last edited by col48; February 22nd, 2011 at 09:24 PM. Reason: zsync completed

  4. #24
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    Re: Hardy -> Lucid upgrade from Live CD. Questions on what survives without reinstall

    Sorry for the long delay again, I guess I have too many irons in the fire. Anyway the next thing to do is look at partitioning and installation options but first of all I want to be sure you understand Ubuntu's device designations. Looking back at post #11 I can see that fdisk -l shows this:

    Code:
    Disk /dev/sda: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
    255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
    Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
    Disk identifier: 0x000dfdaf
    
       Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
    /dev/sda1   *           1       59572   478512058+  83  Linux
    /dev/sda2           59573       60801     9871942+   5  Extended
    /dev/sda5           59573       60801     9871911   82  Linux swap / Solaris
    
    Disk /dev/sdb: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
    255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
    Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
    Disk identifier: 0x000f2249
    
       Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
    /dev/sdb1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
    Clearly both drives are 500GB, but sda has three partitions (one of which is just an extended partition which amounts to a "shell" that can contain many logical partitions), and sdb has only one partition. It's important to know what each device "looks like" so you know for sure that you're partitioning the correct device.

    Regarding device designations, eg: /dev/sda1, the "/" marks are simply "dividers", dev = device, sd = hard drive, and the first character (letter) following "sd" indicates the drive number, so:

    /dev/sda = drive #1
    /dev/sdb = drive #2, etc.

    The character (number) following that letter indicates the partition number so:

    /dev/sda1 = drive #1 partition #1
    /dev/sda2 = drive #1 partition #2
    /dev/sdb1 = drive #2 partition #1, etc.

    Clear as mud so far? It's just a good idea to have a clear mental picture of what your drives should look like

    NOTE: If /dev/sdb (the drive with only one partition that you use for "hot backups") is a USB drive it might be simplest to disconnect it, but that's not necessary.

    IMPORTANT NOTE: In most of the examples I'm providing I used my /dev/sdb which is an 80GB internal drive, so take into consideration that the drive designation is different than yours and partition sizes are "in scale".

    So, onto using Gparted. First rule: if anything seems the least bit confusing, STOP and ask questions! If you boot your new Lucid Live CD choosing "Try Ubuntu", once you get the live desktop running go to System > Administration > Gparted (aka: Partition Editor). If you want to learn a lot about Gparted you could check their own documentation:

    http://gparted.sourceforge.net/

    Or this is a great, and somewhat more simplified, guide (particularly the "real life examples" section):

    http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gparted.html

    But for what you're doing lets keep it basic. You first just want to look and make sure things look like you expect them to. In the upper right hand corner you'll notice that you can "toggle" to select each device. I'd expect your /dev/sda to look similar to this (remember, in MY example it's sdb):

    Hardy_only.png

    If so the next step is to right-click on YOUR /dev/sda1 and select Resize/Move as shown here:

    Screenshot.png

    Then simply "hover" the mouse pointer over the right end of that partition diagram (the pointer will turn to a double-ended arrow) and drag the right-end to the left as far as you choose, similar this:

    Screenshot-Resize-Move -dev-sdb1.png

    Then click on the green arrow/Apply, to apply the resize. I'd expect that to take anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes to complete depending on your machines specs. When complete you should see something similar to this:

    Hardy_after_resize.png

    Now, you could quit here and use the "Use largest continuous free space" option from the Lucid live-installer, but that will by default create an ext4 file system and it will also create a second SWAP partition which is not harmful but totally unnecessary.

    I prefer creating my own new partition and then using the "Specify partitions manually (advanced)" option. It's really not that "advanced" and IMHO it's well worth learning.

    Due to the 5 screenshot limit per post I'll have to continue with that in the next post

    Remember, if any of this is confusing just ask

  5. #25
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    Re: Hardy -> Lucid upgrade from Live CD. Questions on what survives without reinstall

    Quote Originally Posted by col48 View Post
    kansasnoob

    Certainly agree with your comment about stability.

    Issues with Video had not occurred to me. It seemed OK with 15 minutes fiddling on the live CD. Hardy only offers me 2 resolutions but the Lucid Live CD offered about 10 and 4 of the 5 I tried worked.

    I move files around with drag/drop in Nautilus - no chance of a typo. I have a large number of folders which are logically named (well, it works for me).

    So far, so good.

    zsync has completed (35 min to download) and reports checksum is OK.
    If not for "drag-n-drop" and "copy-n-paste" I'd long ago have been in the loony bin

    I tend to look for the simplest way to do things.

    Once Lucid is installed in a dual-boot with Hardy we won't quite use "drag-n-drop" but it's almost as simple. It's certainly all GUI, no CLI needed

  6. #26
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    Re: Hardy -> Lucid upgrade from Live CD. Questions on what survives without reinstall

    OK, if you got through post #24 alright and ended up with the desired amount of free space then we could move forward creating a new partition and installing Lucid. You'll actually wonder why anyone considers it advanced when we're done.

    Once again we're booted into the Lucid live desktop (just in case you've rebooted since then to get some work done) and we're in Gparted.

    At this point you'd only need to right-click on the newly created free space (aka: unallocated space) and select "New", then "Add". You can then just accept the defaults (even though it'll be ext2) because we'll deal with that during installation. And once again you'll need to click on the green arrow/Apply to apply the change. This one goes fast, maybe a minute or two. If all went as planned you'll see a screen similar to this:

    Hardy_after_create_new.png

    Reminder: I'm using only a representative drive!

    Now, at this point it's very important to make a note of the designation of the newly created partition! I'm guessing that it'll be /dev/sda3 I must depend on YOU understanding the importance of identifying and selecting the proper device during installation!

    The installation process is fairly simple and I think the first three screens are self explanatory:

    Lucid_installer_first_3.jpg

    The next requires a choice, and after choosing "Specify partitions manually (advanced)" you'll see a screen where you need to select the proper device:

    Lucid_installer_select_manual.jpg

    After selecting the proper device click on "Change" and you'll see this:

    Screenshot-Install-4a.png

    That presents four choices:
    (1) New partition size
    (2) Use as
    (3) Format the partition
    (4) Mount point

    Well, we already created the partition size using Gparted so no change is needed there.

    The "Use as" is where you select the file-system. I'd recommend ext3, but ext4 may be fine. I already commented on that.

    Obviously this is going to be a new root partition so we must check the box next to "Format the partition".

    And the "mount point" must be set to "/"!

    Once you're satisfied that you've completed those four fields properly just click on OK. Again I think the rest is self-explanatory:

    Lucid_installer_last3.jpg

    If any of this is even slightly confusing please ask questions!

    It's break time here

    Edit: Something I wished I remembered to mention:

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/Re...20of%20install

    I/O error after CD is ejected at end of install

    In some cases, ejecting the CD at the end of installation will leave errors on the screen such as:

    end_request: I/O error, dev sr0, sector 437628

    these error messages indicate that the system is still trying to access some files on the CD, and are harmless except that they obscure the message asking the user to press Enter to reboot. You can safely remove the CD from the tray and press Enter at this point to reboot to your new Ubuntu system.
    So when the installation is complete and you select restart, if the screen is filled with I/O errors just ignore it, remove the CD, close the tray, and press Enter. It's purely an aesthetic problem.
    Last edited by kansasnoob; February 24th, 2011 at 03:51 PM.

  7. #27
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    Re: Hardy -> Lucid upgrade from Live CD. Questions on what survives without reinstall

    Kansasnoob

    I've read post #24 and I reckon I understand it. Your instructions are very clear - a bit simpler than I need, but I am content with that. A couple of questions or three while I am backing up /home to an external device....

    1. Would it make sense to create another new partition (at the same time) for /home, to be shared between the two OS? I've seen this recommended elsewhere, but only to simplify backups and to isolate the user data from the system on a single Ubuntu system. I think it could simplify matters or it could complicate them. What do you think?

    2. I don't really understand why I have sda2 and sda5 - I've just accepted it as a fact of life; someone else installed Hardy in the first place and this is how it ended up. In Windows days the swap file was just a file like any other. Also, whatever happened to sda3 and sda4? Symptoms of prior failed attempts at partitioning?

    3. I assume I will end up with a Hardy system which will treat everything in the Lucid partition(s) as data alongside a Lucid system which will treat everything in the Hardy partition(s) as data. Both would see the second internal hard disk (sdb) as data. Of course, the computer will not be running Hardy and Lucid simultaneously; this is a choice made on boot-up.

    As it's already 21:30 here I won't get to partitioning tonight; I may have time tomorrow - it depends on what the granddaughter wants to do!

    But I will copy the Lucid 10.04.2 iso to CD. It looks like that's appropriate!

    Now copied (burned) CD and checked it works as a Live CD. Also SOLVED the side issue (lack of access to normal home folder from live CD). Turns out to be permissions problem - the folder's had been set to 700 so user 'ubuntu' from on the Live CD could not read it.
    Last edited by col48; February 24th, 2011 at 12:02 AM. Reason: Added 'But I will...' an hour ago then final para now

  8. #28
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    Re: Hardy -> Lucid upgrade from Live CD. Questions on what survives without reinstall

    Your instructions are very clear - a bit simpler than I need
    Hopefully I'm writing this so anyone can understand it, remember I said I'm not doing it just for you. That way I can bookmark this and refer others to it so I can type less in the future

    1. Would it make sense to create another new partition (at the same time) for /home, to be shared between the two OS? I've seen this recommended elsewhere, but only to simplify backups and to isolate the user data from the system on a single Ubuntu system. I think it could simplify matters or it could complicate them. What do you think?
    I generally don't recommend sharing a /home because it contains so many desktop related settings that conflicts tend to result. I used to use a separate /home with each installation but I've now grown away from that.

    2. I don't really understand why I have sda2 and sda5 - I've just accepted it as a fact of life; someone else installed Hardy in the first place and this is how it ended up. In Windows days the swap file was just a file like any other. Also, whatever happened to sda3 and sda4? Symptoms of prior failed attempts at partitioning?
    Generally there's a 4 primary partition limit, but using an extended partition allows the use of many more logical partitions within the extended partition. So primary and extended partitions will generally always be 1,2,3, and 4. And logical partitions will begin with 5 even if less than 4 primary/extended partitions exist.

    In fact you'll notice that I created another primary partition for the new Lucid and it ended up being sdb3 (will likely be sda3 for you). Now, I could have recommended first resizing/shrinking sda1, then resizing/growing sda2 (the extended partition), and then creating a new logical partition within it for Lucid. In that case the new logical partition would likely be sda6.

    Ubuntu can use a SWAP file rather than a SWAP partition, but I've only done so once on a Netbook with a tiny SSD drive.

    3. I assume I will end up with a Hardy system which will treat everything in the Lucid partition(s) as data alongside a Lucid system which will treat everything in the Hardy partition(s) as data. Both would see the second internal hard disk (sdb) as data. Of course, the computer will not be running Hardy and Lucid simultaneously; this is a choice made on boot-up.
    After reviewing my last post (I was getting pretty tired so I need to check for errors) I'm going to type up something simple about copying files/folders from your Hardy to your new Lucid, but you seem to have a fairly good idea what to look for. Right now I'm in Maverick but this is what my Places > Removable Media looks like:

    Screenshot-1.png

    Since my new Hardy and Lucid partitions are very nearly the same size they both show up as 38GB Filesystem. You'll notice that most of my partitions are "labeled". That's easily done using Gparted following installation. Just right click on the proper device/partition and select Label. Then you can name it whatever you like for easy identification

  9. #29
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    Re: Hardy -> Lucid upgrade from Live CD. Questions on what survives without reinstall

    Thanks for your patience and your willingness to answer questions.

    I generally don't recommend sharing a /home
    I see the sense in what you say.

    Thanks for your explanation of sda1-2-5. Most interesting.

    Another digression - please ignore it if you're busy ...
    I know that defrag is not needed in Linux - (or is it the filesystem which has that attribute?) but as I understand it to create a new partition in Windows you would first have to defrag the partition to be shrunk in order to gather the files together and create the empty space for the new partition. How does Linux avoid fragmentation?


    Progress Report.

    Gparted took 30 min to shrink sda1.
    As you guessed, the new partition is sda3.
    I've labelled sda1 as PHardy and sda3 as PLucid. They are the same size and as I guess the file structure will be very similar at first glance it seemed prudent to give them both names at the outset.

    Now for the installation.

    At the moment it is a mystery to me how Lucid will acquire Thunderbird and Firefox capability when only Hardy has access to the Internet. And whether emails received under one OS would be visible to the other without (at least) switching folders. No doubt all will become apparent in due course!

  10. #30
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    Re: Hardy -> Lucid upgrade from Live CD. Questions on what survives without reinstall

    Quote Originally Posted by col48 View Post
    Another digression - please ignore it if you're busy ...
    I know that defrag is not needed in Linux - (or is it the filesystem which has that attribute?) but as I understand it to create a new partition in Windows you would first have to defrag the partition to be shrunk in order to gather the files together and create the empty space for the new partition. How does Linux avoid fragmentation?
    It is an attribute of how the kernel uses the filesystem. There are a number of techniques that the ext[234] filesystem driver uses to minimize fragmentation. One is simply not to start a new file at a block where the following block ( or several ) is already allocated to another file and therefore, this file would have to be fragmented to grow. Another is to reserve a number of blocks for room to grow and not let other files be put there. A new one added to ext4 is called delayed allocation. Rather than allocate blocks to hold the file as data is written into the cache, it delays the allocation until the cache is flushed to disk, at which point often the whole file has already been written and so its full size is known and contiguous space large enough to hold it can be allocated.

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