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Thread: EXT4 - I just don't get it.

  1. #41
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    Re: EXT4 - I just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by whoop View Post
    Come again?
    What do you not understand?
    Last edited by Shining Arcanine; November 20th, 2010 at 08:25 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: EXT4 - I just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Arcanine View Post
    ext3 and ext4 are two different revisions of the same filesystem and the changes are not terribly fundamental. How can I make that any more clear?
    Still, I don't know why you are telling me that...

  3. #43
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    Re: EXT4 - I just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by whoop View Post
    Still, I don't know why you are telling me that...
    You posted saying that ext4 was released early. It is just a collection of patches for ext3 that are mostly backward compatible and were extensively tested for years. ext4 was not particularly ambitious, yet you say that it was early despite years of testing. How do you consider that to be the case?

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    Re: EXT4 - I just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Arcanine View Post
    You posted saying that ext4 was released early.
    Nope, never said that. You have me confused with someone else, sir...

  5. #45
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    Re: EXT4 - I just don't get it.

    You are right. I replied to the wrong person. I meant to reply to the ezsit:

    Quote Originally Posted by ezsit View Post
    What? Are you kidding me? ext2 and ext3 are far more stable and well tested than ext4. Ext4 was released too early, proclaimed stable too early, and chosen by Ubuntu and Red Hat too early.

    Red Hat also switched to ext3 when it was relatively young but they got lucky in that ext3 was pretty stable then. ext4 is a lot more complicated than ext3 and needs more time to mature.

    I would trust your own experience and stick with ext3 for as long as you need, the support is not going anywhere. And to those who were under the impression you are forced to use the ext4 filesystem, just do an advanced install and you can choose your own filesystem.

  6. #46
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    Re: EXT4 - I just don't get it.

    IMO the problems with ext4 are not anything to do with filesystem corruption. Ext4 might lose a bit more of your data when you randomly pull the power plug compared to ext3, but filesystem corruption is not more likely. If you're experiencing filesystem corruption with ext4, that indicates an issue with your hardware. By this time, ext4 has been fairly extensively used in production environments and seems to does comparably to ext3.
    Quote Originally Posted by tuxradar
    Linux's audio architecture is more like the layers of the Earth's crust than the network model, with lower levels occasionally erupting on to the surface, causing confusion and distress, and upper layers moving to displace the underlying technology that was originally hidden

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    Re: EXT4 - I just don't get it.

    It is just a collection of patches for ext3 that are mostly backward compatible and were extensively tested for years. ext4 was not particularly ambitious, yet you say that it was early despite years of testing. How do you consider that to be the case?
    I said ext4 was released too early because the first time it was made the default file system, people were having problems with large files and file corruption. That problem was major and should have been fixed before ext4 was made a default. Also, ext4 is not just minor patches, adding b+trees to an extents based file system is a major change and one that alters the on-disk data structures.

    ext3 was merely ext2 with the journaling system from JFS tacked on, the on-disk data structures never really changed and an ext3 disk could be mounted safely as ext2. The same cannot be said for ext4 volumes.

    ext4 may have been tested for years, but it was obviously not enough time for everyone. ext3 has been bullet-proof for me for years and I have no intention of switching anytime soon. It's a file system, how sexy does it have to be?
    XFCE, From Now On!

  8. #48
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    Re: EXT4 - I just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ezsit View Post
    I said ext4 was released too early because the first time it was made the default file system, people were having problems with large files and file corruption. That problem was major and should have been fixed before ext4 was made a default. Also, ext4 is not just minor patches, adding b+trees to an extents based file system is a major change and one that alters the on-disk data structures.

    ext3 was merely ext2 with the journaling system from JFS tacked on, the on-disk data structures never really changed and an ext3 disk could be mounted safely as ext2. The same cannot be said for ext4 volumes.

    ext4 may have been tested for years, but it was obviously not enough time for everyone. ext3 has been bullet-proof for me for years and I have no intention of switching anytime soon. It's a file system, how sexy does it have to be?
    Issues with corruption usually occurred then when people were using kernels that had bugs that had long been fixed. By the time that they had declared things as being stable, many of the bugs that ailed users were already fixed.

  9. #49
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    Re: EXT4 - I just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nlsthzn View Post
    Seeing that EXT4 is now being made the default file system in so many distro's (Red Hat as well) I can't believe there is a major corruption problem with it... it wouldn't make sense...
    I agree. Been using it here for almost 2 years with no problems.

  10. #50
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    Re: EXT4 - I just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by slooksterpsv View Post
    Files that have become corrupt:

    1. ISO image, I download a lot and then use them in VirtualBox. After I install I unmount cause I usually install the addins or have another ISO with items I need for it. These were becoming corrupt left and right, I'd try to load them it would give errors in VirtualBox; I'd try to use UNETBOOTIN to copy the ISO Files to a USB Flash drive and SD card - it would say it couldn't read the file. I've installed Mint 10 with these flash mediums.

    2. Music files, I've had music in my Music folder; play just fine, even play fine on the drive I copied them from, after a while each song just wouldn't play - not in exaile, rhythmbox, banshee, vlc, or on Windows on Winamp.

    Random files I've downloaded or had have went missing too:
    Images, Music files, Downloads
    Did you get any specific error messages, or check dmesg for more details? With that limited description it could simply be medium errors on a failing disk. Do you have any other unusual configuration, like raid? And which Ubuntu release was this?

    Quote Originally Posted by ezsit View Post
    What? Are you kidding me? ext2 and ext3 are far more stable and well tested than ext4. Ext4 was released too early, proclaimed stable too early, and chosen by Ubuntu and Red Hat too early.
    Ext4 IS ext3, with a handful of new features. Much of the code goes back to ext2 in the 1990s. As far as I know, no serious bugs have been found in ext4 for a few years now, and since it IS the default in Ubuntu and other distributions, it is a good bet that if there were any, they would have been found.

    Quote Originally Posted by ezsit View Post
    Red Hat also switched to ext3 when it was relatively young but they got lucky in that ext3 was pretty stable then. ext4 is a lot more complicated than ext3 and needs more time to mature.
    Not really. Again, 90% of ext4 is ext3. The only two major changes were overhauling the journaling code, and adding extents.

    Quote Originally Posted by ezsit View Post
    I said ext4 was released too early because the first time it was made the default file system, people were having problems with large files and file corruption. That problem was major and should have been fixed before ext4 was made a default.
    There were one or two bugs found and fixed years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by ezsit View Post
    Also, ext4 is not just minor patches, adding b+trees to an extents based file system is a major change and one that alters the on-disk data structures.
    b-trees are only used to index very large directories, and that feature was there in ext3 and ext2 as well. Extents required almost no modification to the on disk structures. The code to implement them, while not entirely trivial, is also not very complex. I managed to implement and debug support for them in e2defrag in a weekend hacking session. Ext4 has had years of testing them on probably millions of machines at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by ezsit View Post
    ext3 was merely ext2 with the journaling system from JFS tacked on, the on-disk data structures never really changed and an ext3 disk could be mounted safely as ext2. The same cannot be said for ext4 volumes.
    And ext4 is merely ext3 with a handful of new features tacked on, most of which are backwards compatible in read only mode. The one big one that isn't is extents, which you could remove just as easily as the ext3 journal if e2fsck were patched to convert back to a block list, which would be pretty easy and could be done in a weekend.

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