View Poll Results: Should GUI support be offered to newbies instead of CLI?

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  • Yes

    16 20.25%
  • No

    10 12.66%
  • Both are acceptable

    53 67.09%
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Thread: How to reply to newbies?

  1. #41
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    Re: How to reply to newbies?

    Quote Originally Posted by quids View Post
    Theres a reason why personal computing caught on and we're not using DOS or Unix anymore - The masses preferred a GUI.
    I don't know how old you are, but I remember when personal computing caught on, and it was before GUIs were popular or usable. A lot of people were using MS-DOS computers and then Windows 3.1 (which was not a user-friendly GUI). Through the 80s and early 90s, most computer navigation, even in the GUI, was done through keyboard shortcuts (a lot of F keys and not a lot of mouse).

  2. #42
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    Re: How to reply to newbies?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterNetra View Post
    There is this nifty thing called copy and paste. Create your reply for the GUI route, save it in a document and when you need it, open it and copy the contents and paste it onto forum or where ever.
    Sometimes I wonder if some of the people I know would know what "copy and paste" is, and some of them have been using GUI-based systems for longer than I have! Some of these same people think that "making a presentation" is called "doing a PowerPoint."

    As for GUI and CLI, I use what suits me at the time. Mind you, some of my experience working in IT many years ago ended up with me using text-based menu systems that were somewhere in between CLI and GUI, without the benefit of a mouse. Going CLI only was frowned upon, and going GUI wasn't an option.
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  3. #43
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    Re: How to reply to newbies?

    Quote Originally Posted by aysiu View Post
    I don't know how old you are, but I remember when personal computing caught on, and it was before GUIs were popular or usable. A lot of people were using MS-DOS computers and then Windows 3.1 (which was not a user-friendly GUI). Through the 80s and early 90s, most computer navigation, even in the GUI, was done through keyboard shortcuts (a lot of F keys and not a lot of mouse).

    PCs still weren't exactly common in the 80s and early 90s. It'll be from the mid 80s I remember back to.

    Perhaps I was thinking more of the people who have come into the world of PCs in the last 10 years when hardware costs have significantly come down and they have only known one OS - Windows XP

  4. #44
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    Re: How to reply to newbies?

    If there was a moratorium on CLI-based instructions, it would not only hurt users who use something other than vanilla Gnome when they ask questions, but also prevent such users from answering questions. Considering how many experienced users do use alternate setups that is a much bigger problem.

  5. #45
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    Re: How to reply to newbies?

    I give both GUI and CLI instructions as answers to problems raised on this forum. I think CLI predominates, although I haven't actually counted, just because of its ease of use to implement and to explain. You only need to tell someone once about man foo or apropos foo; and 99% of people asking for help alreay know how to copy and paste. Any GUI explanations of mine are only for Gnome because of my ignorance of KDE, XFCE, et al.

    I think it's important to at least make newcomers aware of the power of CLI; whether they choose to use it or not is ultimately up to them.

    "These forums exist because Ubuntu is not pre-installed."

    Mine was! Dell XPS 410, acquired in 2007.

  6. #46
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    Re: How to reply to newbies?

    Quote Originally Posted by aysiu View Post
    It actually depends. Sometimes it's more appropriate to offer GUI instructions. Other times, it's more appropriate to offer CLI instructions.

    More details here:
    The GUI v. CLI Debate
    Well the link you provided was quite interesting. And I find these lines extremely expressing my own thoughts.

    Even though the apt-get command makes perfect sense to me, it is just cryptic gobbledygook to a new user, and it will not help her to install other software in the future unless I bother to explain how the command works; and, more importantly, even if she understands how apt-get works, she’ll still need to know the name of the package she wants to install in order to use the command most efficiently.

    A lot of new Linux users (myself included, when I first started) have an irrational fear of the terminal, even if you tell them to copy and paste the command with a mouse (no typing necessary). Eventually, as they become more comfortable with the new environment that Gnome or KDE (or Xfce or whatever other user interface they’re exploring) has to offer, they are more likely to be amenable to learning terminal commands and even liking them.

    Among Windows power users (the most likely group to migrate to an almost-unheard-of operating system that requires download, installation, and configuration from the user and not the OEM), there is already a reputation Linux distros have of being too terminal-dependent. It’s great to advertise to new users just how many things can be done by pointing and clicking, and that will make their transition to Linux that much easier.

  7. #47
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    Re: How to reply to newbies?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldos2er View Post
    I give both GUI and CLI instructions as answers to problems raised on this forum. I think CLI predominates, although I haven't actually counted, just because of its ease of use to implement and to explain. You only need to tell someone once about man foo or apropos foo; and 99% of people asking for help alreay know how to copy and paste. Any GUI explanations of mine are only for Gnome because of my ignorance of KDE, XFCE, et al.

    I think it's important to at least make newcomers aware of the power of CLI; whether they choose to use it or not is ultimately up to them.

    "These forums exist because Ubuntu is not pre-installed."

    Mine was! Dell XPS 410, acquired in 2007.
    Different desktop environments are a hurdle in GUI support but what about this.

    I would say something similar to those who use Fluxbox or Enlightenment and want to primarily help those who use Gnome or KDE. If you aren’t familiar with the graphical environment the user you’re trying to help is using, don’t offer help in that instance. Save your help for when the CLI is appropriate.

  8. #48
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    Re: How to reply to newbies?

    If you absolutely need a bunch of commands, a shell script should work.
    The thing is, its easier to tell someone, "copy and paste this," than "click here, now here, now here, now here..."

  9. #49
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    Re: How to reply to newbies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronnielsen1 View Post
    One reason against that is not everyone is running gnome, some are running other window managers / de's

    Command line always works
    That's why threads specify the DE being used. It's really not an issue.

    If they're using a DE you aren't familiar with, step back and let someone who does know that DE show them how to use it. If they don't get the help they need, then maybe give them your CLI solution.

  10. #50
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    Re: How to reply to newbies?

    No, no, no. The way to reply to newbies is with sneering contempt for their utter lack of 1337|\|355 and a resounding chorus of 'RTFM'. At least, that's how it was when I started on *nix in the late 90s

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