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Thread: Policies regarding promoting illegal activities.

  1. #31
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    Re: Policies regarding promoting illegal activities.

    It appears that the forum mods who are making these arguments about what people are and are not allowed to say or for that matter what personal opinions Ubuntu forums is allowed to let people post "due to U.S. law" are not themselves located in the U.S. and possibly for this reason fail to understand U.S. law as much as they claim to as far as constitutionally protected free speech law is concerned.

    Even if this forum is based in the U.S. and [B]use[B] of certain codecs without a certain software license is illegal, the U.S. constitution guarantees free speech, which means that if someone wants to express their constitutionally protected opinion in a public forum that people should break the law and use such codecs illegally, such speech, even if it amounts to "promotion of illegal activity," is protected by the U.S. constitution. This free speech protection afforded by the U.S. constitution may even make it illegal under U.S. law for forum moderators to censor such free speech.

    Analogy: It's not illegal in the United States to campaign for the legalization of marijuana, or even to suggest in a public online forum that people violate U.S. law and smoke it illegally. Such speech is protected by U.S. law. What is illegal is actually smoking marijuana. It's not illegal to tell people to break the law, it's only illegal if they actually do it--and the people who do it may be breaking the law, but not the people who suggested they violate it.
    Last edited by jesse; March 21st, 2006 at 04:19 AM.

  2. #32
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    Re: Policies regarding promoting illegal activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by jesse
    It appears that the forum mods who are making these arguments about what people are and are not allowed to say or for that matter what personal opinions Ubuntu forums is allowed to let people post "due to U.S. law" are not themselves located in the U.S. and possibly for this reason fail to understand U.S. law as much as they claim to as far as constitutionally protected free speech law is concerned.

    Even if this forum is based in the U.S. and [B]use[B] of certain codecs without a certain software license is illegal, the U.S. constitution guarantees free speech, which means that if someone wants to express their constitutionally protected opinion in a public forum that people should break the law and use such codecs illegally, such speech, even if it amounts to "promotion of illegal activity," is protected by the U.S. constitution. This free speech protection afforded by the U.S. constitution may even make it illegal under U.S. law for forum moderators to censor such free speech.

    Analogy: It's not illegal in the United States to campaign for the legalization of marijuana, or even to suggest in a public online forum that people violate U.S. law and smoke it illegally. Such speech is protected by U.S. law. What is illegal is actually smoking marijuana. It's not illegal to tell people to break the law, it's only illegal if they actually do it--and the people who do it may be breaking the law, but not the people who suggested they violate it.
    That's good point.

  3. #33
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    Re: Policies regarding promoting illegal activities.

    jesse I remind you that you agree to abide by the rules of this forum when you establish an account here.

    Also posting on this forum is a privilage and not a right.
    This account is not active.

  4. #34
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    Re: Policies regarding promoting illegal activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiNZ
    jesse I remind you that you agree to abide by the rules of this forum when you establish an account here.
    He is questioning the rational behind your forum policies, he never said one shouldn't abide by them.
    So how about at least once addressing the issues he and others have raised here, instead of repeating again and again that people have to abide by the rules (which, I can only repeat it, nobody doubted).

    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiNZ
    Also posting on this forum is a privilage and not a right.
    While this is of course true to an extend, may I also remind you that these are the official ubuntu forums? So don't you think it's at least reasonable to expect that the forum admins don't place arbitrary restrictions on what people are allowed to say?

    Now, I know that you don't think the restrictions are arbitrary, however, you repeatedly failed to give a convincing rational for the forum policy. Instead you constantly ignore all the arguments people make against this policy and instead tell them again and again that it is the forum policy. This is frustrating, to say the least.

  5. #35
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    Re: Policies regarding promoting illegal activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by jesse
    Analogy: It's not illegal in the United States to campaign for the legalization of marijuana, or even to suggest in a public online forum that people violate U.S. law and smoke it illegally. Such speech is protected by U.S. law. What is illegal is actually smoking marijuana. It's not illegal to tell people to break the law, it's only illegal if they actually do it--and the people who do it may be breaking the law, but not the people who suggested they violate it.
    I would suggest that you research laws concerning inciting to commit crime.By inciting to commit a crime if said crime is committed those inciting said crime commit a crime.Also inciting lawlessness and disobedience may also be a crime .
    This account is not active.

  6. #36
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    Re: Policies regarding promoting illegal activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bragador
    Ubuntu has repositories that links to these "illegal" codecs. VLC media player for exemple.
    Yes. But Universe is not enabled by default, so when it is added, it is the user that did it (not Ubuntu) and it is the user that points and selects VLC.

    I guess the actual repository is hosted in a country that does not have a DMCA like law.

    I think that even talking about circumventing copyright protection is illegal in the US, so with the forums hosted there and many of the admins being US residents, it is not a risk worth to take.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Policies regarding promoting illegal activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiNZ
    I would suggest that you research laws concerning inciting to commit crime.By inciting to commit a crime if said crime is committed those inciting said crime commit a crime.Also inciting lawlessness and disobedience may also be a crime .
    May I suggest that you also do some research on this?
    After all, as people have pointed out time and time again, calling for something like civil disobedience may well be covered under free speech laws, though it also may incite doing something illegal.

    Further, as others have also already pointed out, your policy on this matter is far from consistent.
    How can linking to instruction to install the codecs you presume to be illegal, or tell people to simply install w32codecs to get things working in a support thread be considered not promoting illegal activities by your standards, while simply stating that someone uses them does?

    Add to this that people were banned for simply stating that they thought the codecs are not illegal (which might be an uniformed opinion, but certainly not a banable offense), that you even prevent people from stating that they think something shouldn't be illegal, which clearly is covered by free speech rights and also clearly does not promote illegal activity and you might get the idea where the problem lies.

    To sum it up, simply refering people to the law, which is far from clear in this case and not addressing the problems and inconsistencies of your policies will not make this issue go away.

  8. #38
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    Re: Policies regarding promoting illegal activities.

    The Administration and staff of this forum has made its position regarding this matter very clear.
    This account is not active.

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