Should Linspire Offer CNR for Ubuntu Users?

[towsonu2003]

Apologies if my distain for Linspire overshadowed my original (Valid IMHO) point, but after I read that they tried **THIS** and the fact that they feel that they were **JUSTIFIED** makes me hate them more than Microsoft's Corporate Ethics Department.

OMG... WT*? 69.95? wow.

thanks for the insightful post.

Note: this was a serious comment

[Bandit]

News News News: Not everyone lives in America...

I know that. Thats why I stated in a ealier post (in the US).
For those that live in the UK were the patent laws dont apply I truley envy you.
Cheers,
Joey

EDITED for Spelling

[Arktis]

To Kevin Carmony:

I don't think introducing a closed source method to installing proprietary software in an extremely ignorant-friendly way is what I would call a step forward. I am also suprised that Mark Shuttleworth thinks it is a good idea as you say. I am not particularly pleased about this at all. Linux is a powerful driving force for the creation and adoption of free and open alternatives. If you make the adoption of already mainstream proprietary stuff on Linux easy, then you are hurting the future of open alternatives.

And why the opinion polling? Why not just simply go ahead and offer it if it's so great? I think you have watched the Ubuntu Community closely, as I'm sure many companies have, and decided that the community here holds a very large mindshare with Ubuntu users and even the Linux community as a whole. So this is the reason for the idea introduction and polling. You know how some people might feel about this and you also know that this is a key place to be if you want to successfully introduce something.

Please keep your CNR at least 100 yards away from my Ubuntu at all times.

[DrFunkenstein]

I live in the UK too!

What I was getting at was Linux's strength comes from its freedom, and the fact that its free as in beer.

But you are aware that Launchpad isn't free software either?
And you are aware that Red Hat and Novel are actually quite expensive and far from being free as in beer?

[bored2k]

1. Linspire supports dozens of proprietary applications, drivers and codecs that you may want to have access to. MP3, DVD, Real Audio, Windows Media, Quick Time, Java, Flash, nVidia, ATI, Bitstream fonts, and so on. For example, right out of the box, Linspire users have access to all these different file types. With CNR, you could, with one click, deliver all this capability to your Ubuntu computer.

Although I'd be lying if I said that installing these type of packages still give the headaches it gave me before I learned how to do it, I completely understand and agree with Kevin C. on how "You could more easily set up your non-technical friends with Ubuntu. 98% of the world will no way take the time to learn how apt-get works.". Just recently I heard an advanced user (college teacher and programmer) -wrongly- argument on how linux wasn't ever going to be popular because not everyone wants to learn nor want to type code down in a terminal just to do the things usually done by simple mouse usage. Although I tried my best at explaining to him how much we have advanced, it would have been N times easier to just say "Listen, there's this "thing" called CnR which is arguably easier than anything you've ever tried on any operating system. And for what you get without the need of having to plunge into a CLI and/or reading manuals, it's mad cheap and comfortable.

I think it'd be a great move for both Ubuntu and Linspire. Would I absolutely need CnR to run my system? Not necessarily. No, not really. Would I consider paying the small fee just to ease my relatives into using Linux? That'd make for a great option. $20 dollars ain't cheap, but it would surely be a good investment for people making the transition. Heck, CNR leaves a first impression of linux a lot better than "Ok, go to Applications --> Accesories --> Terminal. Oh, they changed the location? Ok, uhm... hit Alt+F2 and type gnome-terminal, now type (...). *15 minutes later* And that's it! Wasn't it easy to setup MP3 support?!"

[Stormy Eyes]

You may be right, however, in that if ease of use is a factor, just have them use Linspire. And if they don't need something like CNR, use Ubuntu. What Mark and I were wondering is, is there a need for Ubuntu to have CNR. The answer may very well be no.

On the other hand, it looks to me like Linspire is somewhat KDE-centered, as opposed to Ubuntu's focus on GNOME. I don't care for KDE or its apps, but I personally wouldn't mind having access to CNR on a GNOME-centric Linux.

[endersshadow]

I think that Ubuntu users are, in general, not terrified of the command line and/or apt-get, and generally love Synaptic. It truly blows away yum and Fedora's up2date or whatever the hell it's called...I always got that flashing ! and it never did anything...anyway, not my point...

I think where Linspire could fit in as a very lucrative business for other Linux distributions is legally selling the proprietary multimedia codecs (dvd, win32, etc.) packaged for the major Linux distributions (Ubuntu, Gentoo, Debian, Fedora, etc.), and possibly for the major BSD distributions. I think what you'll find is that the Ubuntu community will generally resist an attempt to make Ubuntu Linspire-esque. No offense to you or your people, but you've been sort of villified and portrayed as the red-headed stepchild of Linux distributions, commercial or not, so you're going to experience a lot of resistance whenever you try to step into any other distribution.

The best thing that I think you could do is sell multimedia codecs for, say $10. I'm not sure what your contracts are, but even if it were $20, I would most definitely pay for that if it were a one-time fee. I've tried contacting the owners of the codecs and they wanted nothing to do with me...it happens. But I think that the biggest mistake you can make, Kevin, is staying with the CNR brand with other distributions. The Penguin Liberation Front has always been a little shady legally, so I wouldn't go under that or anything remotely similar, either. However, a solid brand of, oh, I don't know, say, TuxMedia, would be a fantastic effort. (By the way, I just made TuxMedia up out of the blue, I haven't been thinking about this for too long.) At any rate, for the other non-commercial distributions, you can create a simple GUI to grab the packages, and have it support the main distribution methods: emerge, apt, yum, yast, etc. On install, it either selects it for you, or you can select it yourself, and then it gets the appropriate repositories as necessary. You already have the hardest part done: Getting the contracts. All you need to do is make a GUI for it (hell, even a CLI tool would be great), and you're off to the races.

By the way, I expect 10% royalties on any proceeds coming from such a program. Only kidding...or am I?

[towsonu2003]

But you are aware that Launchpad isn't free software either?
And you are aware that Red Hat and Novel are actually quite expensive and far from being free as in beer?

redhat -> centos and fedora ; novel -> opensuse

and I do not apt-get launchpad. Mark Shuttleworth recently clearly stated that launchpad will be released under GPL soon (can't find link).

[dbott67]

First, let me preface this by saying that I am an IT professional for the past 15 years. The thread that led me here was from the guy who questioned whether it was ethical to charge his friend $30 for time & expertise to install & configure Ubuntu (his friend got a great deal, IMHO). I have been helping friends and family for many years and have only rarely received payment from a few friends/neighbours who realize the benefit of having a knowledgeable person help them out.

As for CNR, I think that this is a great option to have. Typically, those that oppose the idea are type G personalities (geeks, like me!) Type G's (myself included) like to know how things work; we don't like to just blindly 'click & pray' and wonder what the heck happened.

Kevin's CNR is a 'service'; it allows for easy location and installation of software. If you don't think it's required, search the forums for how many people can't find an application because they didn't enable the universe/multiverse/backports repositories. Less than $2.00 per month to easily find & install an application is a very FAIR and REASONABLE amount to charge. If the end-user wishes to purchase a commercial app, such as Star Office, then have that choice. They also have the choice to install the absolutely free version of OOo.

As Kevin has stated in previous posts, most people don't care how to fix the car, they just want to drive it. And when it comes time to change the oil, they could spend 10 minutes searching the web on how to change the oil on a 1973 Gremlin, but they'd rather pay $30.00 for the convenience of having Jiffy Lube do it. Same thing for their computers... they just want to use it.

A small (and optional) price to pay for a very convenient service for all those non-type G geeks out there that will enable software developers to be paid to develop and enhance software for the better. I wonder how any of us would feel if one day our employer asked us to work for free.

-Dave

PS - I do believe in supporting many of things that I currently enjoy for free. I pay an optional monthly fee of $2.00 to support a podcast that I enjoy, as well as purchasing a number of items from online stores of Ubuntu, Gnome and a few other Linux-related things.

[Kernel Sanders]

OMG... WT*? 69.95? wow.

thanks for the insightful post.

Was that a serious comment? Or a dig?

Because if you look you will find that CompareOffice IS Open Office! Not a cheap copy they were peddling, the actual program Open Office burnt onto a CD and sold for $69.95

CompareWeb IS Mozilla Firefox, burnt onto a CD, and sold for $49.95

Oh and when Kevin said he'd spoken to "Mark" I take it he meant Mark Shuttleworth?