Compiz and Gnome Shell. Gnome is suggesting something really dumb.

**Islington** · April 3rd, 2009

Doing something about gnome-shell. GNOME-Shell is a tricky issue for us because it integrates the window manager with the panel (or at least loads the panel as a plugin to the window manager). This basically means that if you launch compiz in future GNOME versions, you lose your panel. KDE sort of has a similar issue, in that the desktop is tied in with the panel, but that makes sense anyways because there aren’t really any other desktop shells that are designed to replace the default desktop (other than SpringDesk of course, but that is on hold ATM and would probably have a panel of it’s own). I already made a post to the GNOME-desktop-devel about this, but they have told me that tight integration is needed between the panel and the window manger so that the ‘overview’ mode can be done correctly (which I disagree with, you could just have shell expose it’s drawing handle and register functions in the WM (or it’s plugins) that would do the overlay mode for you). Unfortunately, their view on this is that ‘people want it to Just Work (TM) and don’t really care about other window managers’, hence locking out compiz from GNOME. Yeah, inter-project co-operation. It sucks. We basically have two options - fork / rewrite shell and maintain it for compiz (and allow it to be compatible with it’s own set of extensions), which we can’t do with the amount of developers we have or convince the GNOME folks to turn shell into a lib that can easily be used with other WM’s.

from Sam (Developer)

Not allowing me to change window manager, without losing functionality? W.T.F. Just Work(tm) doesn't mean that I have to be stuck with an inferior product(Metacity), which I cant replace. I had quite enough of that in Windows (Still cant remove IE). Look, I am just a user, I know no languages other than some BASIC. And I know that the developers don't really have to care about anything I say. But please, I really do feel this is a mistake. Isn't Linux supposed to be small independent programs working together? Please, Please, Please don't take away my option/freedom to change window managers.

What do you feel about this? Is there any way we can contact any gnome devels and beg/whine at them to change their mind?

**Polygon** · April 3rd, 2009

i don't really see why they are doing this...they must have some reasoning

either way its stupid. major distros like ubuntu and maybe others are shipping with compiz. I'm sure the collective complaining from the linux world will get them to change it.

**Mehall** · April 3rd, 2009

To paraphrase Homer Simpson,

"You don't like it, go to Crunchbang"

Or any other WM, tbh.

I only use GDM, but it could easily be replaced by SLiM if it had to be.

**Mr. Picklesworth** · April 3rd, 2009

On the other hand, the shell as a window manager has many visual effects that, frankly, already work better than Compiz.

Further, GNOME is meant to be an integrated solution. If you want something modular, use one of the myriad of such window managers / desktop environments out there, like XFCE. For that matter, this change just puts GNOME in the same style as those (quite successful!) window managers that people happily work with completely, like Wmii or Awesome.
I can't say I really understand the whole "window manager + panel" thing yet in terms of what it brings to the table, but I can see how it would help with transitions to have all that stuff handled in one place. I suspect it would let the environment apply little quirks to window management such as tracking which launcher an application came from and performing awesome stuff with the knowledge. (Although that could still be done without taking over window management outright).

Compiz is becoming redundant and simply is not going to work as a drop-in replacement for the big desktop environments. This has always been inevitable. The mature choice would be for the Compiz people to accept that and either target the more modular environments or start accepting what the thing presently is: A (fantastic) experiment that had its moment in the sun. Compiz has a lot of great effects code, and the Compiz developers know that code best, so I think it would be pretty cool of them to start contributing to their favourite desktop-integrated window managers directly (be they KWM or Metacity) instead of struggling to maintain a redundant product where such a thing doesn't need to exist.

**forrestcupp** · April 3rd, 2009

I agree with Mr. Picklesworth. Compiz is awesome. But I think it is just a temporary patch to catch us up with the times until the major DE's get around to becoming relevant. KDE has never really worked excellently with Compiz, and they finally got around to incorporating their own compositing with decent effects. I believe that is where Gnome is heading, and where it must head if it wants to remain relevant. They already have good compositing with Metacity; now they just need to polish it up with a good arsenal of effects to go with it.

Compiz is just a bandage that is coming close to having served its purpose. But we're thankful for what it has done for us.

**gnomeuser** · April 3rd, 2009

Integration here allows for less abstraction and better functionality as well as stability. Aside that Compiz have never shown any interest in addressing any number of the issues that stopped it from being a good windows manager for GNOME, why then should GNOME suddenly up and add unneeded abstraction layers to please Compiz when Mutter is perfectly capable of doing the exact same thing only better from the prespective of GNOME.

Regardless, read the whole thread, it is amply addressed why this is being proposed. It is one of many possible routes to take, it is not being proposed without clear reasoning, go back and read Havoc' post please.

**Monster_user** · April 3rd, 2009

Well, I don't use Metacity, or Gnome very often.

I'm not too sure I'm fond of this idea. KDE4 still isn't as effecient as Compiz on several tasks. I find myself changing the Window Manager, just to improve desktop performance. Leaving the same effects enabled.

Transparent Windows when moving, shadows, Expose', Taskbar Thumbnails.

If Gnome can't match the performance of Compiz, I may never use Gnome again.

**Sealbhach** · April 3rd, 2009

Having to use Compiz Fusion icon to change window manager whenever I want to play games or use Google Earth is not a great solution. I would still like to have all the fancy effects though.

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