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Thread: please help: seriously confusing md5sum & cd integrity check problems

  1. #11
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    Re: please help: seriously confusing md5sum & cd integrity check problems

    Quote Originally Posted by jnewm View Post
    PS Just one quick hardware-based Q, if any of you know: could a dying hard drive explain the live CD check failures? I'm sorry, I just don't know jack about computer mechanics, and I'm not sure if at that stage in the boot process the hard-drive is at all involved. Thanks again
    It's possible. And it could be a host of other things.

    PS -kg- notwithstanding the below, do you think getting my system info. really might help figure this out? It strikes me that you all think it's a long shot, so I don't want to waste your time. But if I'm wrong let me know and I'll post it first thing tomorrow (I'm running memtest86 all night just in case). Thanks!
    Possibly, and let me tell you...if I think something is a waste of my time, I will bypass it and not even answer it. No, there is every possibility that this is caused by something very simple and easy to diagnose, but without the specific information we need, it is impossible.

    Don't doubt the skills of some of the people on this forum! While I'm not a flaming expert on Linux (actually, I'm probably as much a newbie as you are), I have been into the hardware aspect for many years (Ham radio operator since 1964; Ground Radio Repairman in the Air Force since 1974; into computers since 1982; and have built my own computers since around 1999) and have some experience in electronics troubleshooting. Many here have my experience and more.

    We are here to try and help...and I expect a little help with my problems (which I have gotten...and with some of which no one could help). When we ask for some information or other, we need that information in order to help.

    People don't realize...if we could be there; if we could come to your house, take over your keyboard, and do what we know to do, it would be (to us) a simple matter and we very possibly could have the computer up and running (or at least diagnosed) quickly. When we're doing this at a distance, and with no direct access to the computer in question and a stranger who doesn't know what we're looking for, it is quite a bit more difficult.

    I run into this all the time; when I am there, I am running through menus and options, and my friends tell me to slow down because they can't follow what I'm doing. I know what I'm looking for...my friends don't!

    Give us a little chance. We might find something absolutely simple and you might be up and running in no time.
    73 from Glenn - KG5UC "Mungo just pawn in game of Life"
    Bump Thread Post #39000 - How To Partition

  2. #12
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    Re: please help: seriously confusing md5sum & cd integrity check problems

    *Ooops. This was actually meant to be a response to mb_webguy's post. So thank you to mb_webguy. I accidentally missed your most recent post -kg-. Which I'll read now.

    Thanks again -kg-. I tried one other thing: I used Unetbootin w/Kubuntu, and ran the CD check (with no CD in the drive of course, it just thought the CD was on the hard-drive I assume). And it again found one error (specifically: "errors found in 1 files!"). So, I take it that rules out the CD drive? And if it's not the hard drive or CD drive (and memcheck went okay), what might it be?
    PS I found a post where someone seemed to be having a similar problem, so I'm going to reply and see if they ever figured anything out!
    PPS Borrowing from that other post, here are my system specs via lshw:
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by jnewm; January 25th, 2009 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Mistake

  3. #13
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    Re: please help: seriously confusing md5sum & cd integrity check problems

    Alright, now a big thanks to -kg-. And don't worry, I have never been anything short of amazed and what the people in these forums know and can solve .

    And seriously, thanks for helping look into this... So, what info. can I get you? I just uploaded a lshw output text file in my last post, which I didn't know existed until I read that other post (and which I just realized I forgot to link to, it's http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=845315).

    Is there anything else that would help? I'm going to bed now, but I'll check the thread again bright and early tomorrow (alright, not that bright and early, but as soon as I'm up) .

    Thanks again so much!
    Jesse

  4. #14
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    Re: please help: seriously confusing md5sum & cd integrity check problems

    Hi -kg-, and anyone else reading this,

    So, quick update with hopefully good news: I somehow managed, with Unetbootin, to get Kubuntu installed on my external hard drive. (My OG plan was to try to run the cd check on the external drive, but for some reason I couldn't get to that option). And, when I run md5sum in Kubuntu (checking the ubuntu .iso file), it works!!! Yay!!!

    And, just to confirm. I then immediately rebooted, went through Unetbootin again, but this time installed the same exact Kubuntu .iso to my internal hard drive. Went to try md5sum, and it does not work!

    So, given that (1) the CD check with a real CD always finds an error (presumably an md5sum error), (2) the CD check without a CD with the live CD running on my internal hard-drive always finds an error, and (3) md5sum itself fails (returning inconsistent results) when running Kubuntu from my internal hard-drive, but not when running from my external hard drive... My internal hard-drive is the problem, right? Because running Kubuntu from the external hard drive has to use the computer's internal motherboard, video card, etc. The only difference is the drive itself, right?

    Anyway, barring any advice to the contrary from you, -kg-, or anyone else, I'm just gonna get a new internal hard drive. And that's not so bad: relatively cheap, and something I can hopefully handle installing .

    Thanks again to all!
    Jesse

  5. #15
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    Re: please help: seriously confusing md5sum & cd integrity check problems

    Quote Originally Posted by jnewm View Post
    .........
    So, given that (1) the CD check with a real CD always finds an error (presumably an md5sum error), (2) the CD check without a CD with the live CD running on my internal hard-drive always finds an error, and (3) md5sum itself fails (returning inconsistent results) when running Kubuntu from my internal hard-drive, but not when running from my external hard drive... My internal hard-drive is the problem, right? Because running Kubuntu from the external hard drive has to use the computer's internal motherboard, video card, etc. The only difference is the drive itself, right?
    ........
    Or the hard drive/CD interface on the motherboard.

    After reading your system specs, I would suggest making sure that the internal drive and CD are put on separate IDE channels (if not already), and their jumper setting both set to "Master" devices - do not assume they are set correctly at the moment!
    Last edited by dcstar; January 26th, 2009 at 12:20 AM.
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  6. #16
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    Re: please help: seriously confusing md5sum & cd integrity check problems

    *** UPDATE (ignore below): I opened the computer, saw that the hard drive was set to master and the cd to slave. I changed CD to master. The live CD check still returned 1 error. I couldn't figure out how to tell if the drives where on separate IDE channels though... I saw that the hard drive was set to 0, I think. But there was no option for the CD. Physically, they were plugged in to two different slots, and in Windows, device manager shows the hard drive as being at location 0, and the CD at location 1. Does that mean they are on separate IDE channels? ***

    Thanks dcstar, I was about to go get a new hard drive, but I'll follow up on this first.

    So, just to make sure I have this right: To check whether the CD and hard drive are on separate IDE channels and both set to master, I have to physically open the computer, right? Is it then easy to tell if the drives are on separate IDE channels? Whereas, with master vs. slave, I assume I have to try to find the product manuals online? (I don't have any manuals for the computer).

    Thanks again,
    Jesse
    Last edited by jnewm; January 26th, 2009 at 01:32 AM. Reason: More info.

  7. #17
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    Re: please help: seriously confusing md5sum & cd integrity check problems

    Quote Originally Posted by jnewm View Post
    *** UPDATE (ignore below): I opened the computer, saw that the hard drive was set to master and the cd to slave. I changed CD to master. The live CD check still returned 1 error. I couldn't figure out how to tell if the drives where on separate IDE channels though... I saw that the hard drive was set to 0, I think. But there was no option for the CD. Physically, they were plugged in to two different slots, and in Windows, device manager shows the hard drive as being at location 0, and the CD at location 1. Does that mean they are on separate IDE channels? ***

    Thanks dcstar, I was about to go get a new hard drive, but I'll follow up on this first.

    So, just to make sure I have this right: To check whether the CD and hard drive are on separate IDE channels and both set to master, I have to physically open the computer, right? Is it then easy to tell if the drives are on separate IDE channels? Whereas, with master vs. slave, I assume I have to try to find the product manuals online? (I don't have any manuals for the computer).

    Thanks again,
    Jesse
    OK, the first part:

    I opened the computer, saw that the hard drive was set to master and the cd to slave. I changed CD to master. The live CD check still returned 1 error. I couldn't figure out how to tell if the drives where on separate IDE channels though... I saw that the hard drive was set to 0, I think. But there was no option for the CD. Physically, they were plugged in to two different slots,
    If they were plugged into different slots on the motherboard, with seperate cables for each, then yes, they were on different IDE channels. Most computers will have two IDE plugs on the motherboard; one marked IDE0 and the other IDE1. This plus the separate plug for a floppy on those that have one, and for SATA drives, if those are supported.

    And yes, you were right in changing the cd drive to a master, being that they are hooked up each to their own IDE plug; that is, as long as you don't have anything else hooked to the same IDE plug along with the CD drive. Of course, if you did, you definitely would get an error, because if more than one device is hooked to the IDE drive, one must be master and the other must be set to slave.

    There is one other thing you might try. I assume that while you might have unplugged the cable from the cd drive to change the shorting pins from slave to master, did you happen to unplug the cable from the motherboard? Sometimes corrosion will build on a connector, whether plugged in or not, and just unplugging and replugging the cable will give it a good connection again. I would try this with both the hard drive and the cd drive, on both ends of the cable, both the drive side and the motherboard side.

    I don't expect too much, since the Windows side works correctly, but you really never know until you try. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the concept that it works under Windows but not under Linux. I mean, you're right that you don't have any especially esoteric hardware.

    Can you boot to the Live CD, and if so, does it run correctly (as it can...I know that some things won't function unless you have access to a hard drive)? Can you recreate the "bugs" that you experience with an install?

    Also, if this is your computer you might want to click on drivers and download the current flash BIOS for your computer. I don't know whether it would help, but your BIOS is dated 2003, and the one on the website is dated 2005.

    Also be aware that, if you decide to flash your BIOS, to do it under a circumstance in which the flashing process will not be interrupted; specifically, using a UPS so that, should the power fail, the flash operation won't stop.

    If you are flashing the BIOS and the process is interrupted, then...get new hardware (you catch my drift?). You will at least have to put a new BIOS chip in the computer, since you will no longer have access to anything on that computer...you won't even be able to bring it up through posting operations and boot to the floppy drive so you can re-flash the BIOS.

    Try the simpler, less dangerous things first, unless you have cause to believe that it is a BIOS issue.
    73 from Glenn - KG5UC "Mungo just pawn in game of Life"
    Bump Thread Post #39000 - How To Partition

  8. #18
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    Re: please help: seriously confusing md5sum & cd integrity check problems

    Thanks again -KG-,

    So, I have a bunch of crazy updates!

    1) The hard-drive/CD are on separate IDE channels and both set to master, with no slaves plugged in. I also tried moving and switching around the IDE plugs, and looking for corrosion, but no luck yet resolving the md5sum problem that way.

    2) I went out and bought an internal Seagate 500gb SATA hard drive: I figured what the heck, I need a bigger hard drive anyway, and it's returnable if need be. Plus, I figured it could help a lot with diagnosing my issue. I then loaded Kubuntu, using Unetbootin from the external hard drive, on all three hard drives: the old internal IDE, the new internal SATA, and the external USB drive.

    3) With everything plugged in as usual, the behavior was as before: a) the live CD still shows 1 error/wrong md5sum; b) the internal IDE still returns inconsistent md5sums; c) the internal SATA returns inconsistent md5sums; and d) md5sum actually worked on the external hard drive!

    4) BUT I also experienced something new: when I ran md5sum from the internal SATA, checking the exact same .iso file that I had just copied from the external USB to the internal SATA, BUT running md5sum on the .iso still on the external USB, it actually WORKED! And returned the correct md5sum multiple times in a row! I then tried again running md5sum on the internal copy of the .iso, and it again returned wrong results... Crazy! I tied the same thing on the internal IDE, and again it could correctly md5sum the external .iso.

    5) So, I tried something else: I unplugged the CD entirely: from both the IDE and power supply. I then tried all of the above again. It went the same, EXCEPT md5sum actually worked from the internal SATA (on the copy of the .iso on the internal SATA). Which marked my first success md5sum'ing a file on an internal drive!

    6) BUT bad news, I rebooted to see what the internal IDE would do, and it still returned incorrect md5sums. I then booted back into the internal SATA to try one more time, and sadly this time md5sum failed again.

    7) So, I then tried switching the internal IDE to the other physical IDE channel (i.e. plugging it where the CD used to be), and I think I even switched it's power supply plug. Then, the behavior changed again!: a) md5sum did not work on the internal IDE on an internal .iso (of course), but did work on the external .iso on the USB drive again; b) BUT, when I booted to the external hard drive, md5sum was not working! (the first time md5sum failed on the external USB drive); c) from the internal SATA, md5sum worked twice (i.e. it returned the correct md5sum twice), but then failed again (i.e. it started giving new, inconsistent strings).

    Okay, so, needless to say I was losing my mind at this point . So...

    8) I switched tactics and decided to try the BIOS idea, BUT I was unable to update the BIOS to the 2005 Intel version (the BIOSes did not match). And after some internet research, it looks like this is because the Gateway version of the Intel motherboard that I have, is actually slightly different and uses a different Gateway-provided BIOS! More annoying, Gateway has referred support of my computer to some other company, which doesn't have the drivers/BIOS updates readily available on their site. However, after some more searching, I did find a link to a page that appears to have a matching BIOS update for my Gateway/Intel motherboard (i.e. the Gateway version), see http://www.support.gateway.com/suppo...&param=2520852. But I haven't gotten around to trying to flash it yet. ALSO, I found a couple web pages where it sounds like, with some leg work, people were able to re-flash the motherboard to the Intel version successfully... So that could be an option too. See http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/21...ate-intel-mobo, http://www.wimsbios.com/phpBB2/topic10179.html, http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=68181, http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/...eway-mobo.aspx, http://forums.pcpitstop.com/index.ph...c=122547&st=10, http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=93134.msg668247. (PS The last link seemed to involve first-hand success).

    So, lastly, with all that said, here are my plans:

    #1 - I still haven't tried booting with the internal IDE hard drive completely removed, because my internal SATA and USB drives don't seem to be bootable on their own. So, I am going to get my internal SATA bootable, and then try md5sum with all the internal IDE stuff removed (CD and hard drive).

    #2 - If that doesn't help, I am going to try to update my BIOS to the Gateway/Intel version. And then re-try md5sum.

    #3 - If that doesn't help, I may even try re-flashing my BIOS to the regular Intel version.

    What do you think? Does that make any sense? Is there anything else you would try first?

    Thanks everyone so much!
    Jesse
    Last edited by jnewm; January 26th, 2009 at 09:56 PM. Reason: More info.

  9. #19
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    Re: please help: seriously confusing md5sum & cd integrity check problems

    OK. I thought that I was dealing with a complete noob, but I can see that you at least have my thought train concerning troubleshooting.

    I just got back from pool league and am not in the frame of mind to do this at this moment. Let me sleep on this and, since I'm making this post to your thread, it will be at the top of my "posts list." I'll attack this with a fresh mind in the morning (I don't have to go to work tomorrow) and see what I can come up with.

    Good troubleshooting techniques!
    73 from Glenn - KG5UC "Mungo just pawn in game of Life"
    Bump Thread Post #39000 - How To Partition

  10. #20
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    Re: please help: seriously confusing md5sum & cd integrity check problems

    Well, I just re-read the entire thread and you're right...this is a very confusing problem, and seemingly a problem that is inconsistent. You try something, and something different works; switch to something else and something else works; the reboot and what worked all of the sudden doesn't, or, as you said, works twice then fails.

    I just wonder...have you tried downloading and making the .iso on one of your other computers? I would try downloading the iso on one of your working computers using a bittorrent client from the Ubuntu Download page's recommended mirror sites, check the md5sum on that computer to make sure it's good (you shouldn't need to do this step using a torrent download, but...) and either burn the .iso to a CD or using Unetbootin, what ever, and put both the files on to the external drive.

    Switch the external drive to your desktop and make the checks, copy the files to where ever you want to check, and check them there, too. I'm still suspecting a problem somewhere in your desktop's hardware, and just want to confirm that it definitely isn't the download you're using, though to have the exact same problem with several downloads seems too much to be coincidence.

    An even better way to check this would be to get a commercially available disk...one that hasn't been downloaded, but commercially produced. I bought one from Best Buy the other day, but I've never personally had any problem with any of my downloads.

    Also, I forget the procedure or software required for md5sum checks and disk integrity check (I haven't had any problems in quite a while, and I always use torrents, which check md5sum as part of the download process), but are you sure that any software you are using to check all this is correctly installed and not corrupted?

    With all you've done, I almost can't believe that you haven't been able to find the problem yet. I'm sitting here wracking my brains (I've been typing this for several hours now) trying to figure out what the problem could be. With the erratic behavior of the problems, in my mind it almost has to be a hardware problem, but I don't know what it would be.

    I'm frankly getting to the point that I'm just slinging mud and seeing what sticks. Hopefully, you have a good UPS, because I'm coming to the point that one of the last logical things you might try is to flash your BIOS. I would save that for one of the last things I try, though.
    73 from Glenn - KG5UC "Mungo just pawn in game of Life"
    Bump Thread Post #39000 - How To Partition

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