There is a scary discussion on the Ubuntu Developers mail list.

[Kilz]

I read the article and the proposal doesn't frighten me. This seems a reasonable and worthwhile pursuit (from article):

Kind of a strange way of putting freedom. The freedom to only install software from sources that are approved. Sounds like something Microsoft would come up with.
Thats trading freedom for security. Each time I have seen this happen you loose freedom and never get security.
Lets see how it sounds when applied to something else.
Lets improve breathing by limiting the sources of air.

[p_quarles]

Kilz: You're not listening to what anyone is saying. Stop with the "this is too much like Microsoft" and the "they're taking freedom away from users." It's silly.

1. The proposal (did you read the article?) would not take any freedom away. It would eliminate "click-through" installers from the default installation. I don't think this is a particularly good idea, but it doesn't stop you from a) Using appropriate and secure methods to install whatever you want, and b) Installing the click-through installers themselves.

2. The reason the devs don't allow everyone to sign up for their mailing list is that it would simply become flooded with spam, half-baked ideas, repetitious feature requests, etc., etc. It would become unusable. That's not "shutting you out," it's getting work done.

I think I've spelled it out pretty clearly here. You can either continue to misrepresent the views of those of us who aren't "scared" by the article you linked to, or you can address my points intelligently. Your choice.

[fwojciec]

Lets improve breathing by limiting the sources of air.

Well, this actually happens, in case you didn't know, and it's good that there are measures out there that try to limit air pollution.

[Frak]

Kind of a strange way of putting freedom. The freedom to only install software from sources that are approved. Sounds like something Microsoft would come up with.
Thats trading freedom for security. Each time I have seen this happen you loose freedom and never get security.
Lets see how it sounds when applied to something else.
Lets improve breathing by limiting the sources of air.

"Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

[Kilz]

Kilz: You're not listening to what anyone is saying. Stop with the "this is too much like Microsoft" and the "they're taking freedom away from users." It's silly.

1. The proposal (did you read the article?) would not take any freedom away. It would eliminate "click-through" installers from the default installation. I don't think this is a particularly good idea, but it doesn't stop you from a) Using appropriate and secure methods to install whatever you want, and b) Installing the click-through installers themselves.

2. The reason the devs don't allow everyone to sign up for their mailing list is that it would simply become flooded with spam, half-baked ideas, repetitious feature requests, etc., etc. It would become unusable. That's not "shutting you out," it's getting work done.

I think I've spelled it out pretty clearly here. You can either continue to misrepresent the views of those of us who aren't "scared" by the article you linked to, or you can address my points intelligently. Your choice.

1. It isnt an article, its an email in an archive. Yes I read it.
Conclusion: Ubuntu systems should not provide a smooth `click through'
route to the installation of untrustworthy software.

"Untrustworthy software includes all software which we don't have some
reason to trust. This means:

* No click-through installation of downloaded .debs
* No click-through addition of arbitrary apt repositories or keys
* No click-through installation of arbitrary browser plugins
* No click-through addition of PPAs without further policy controls "

This says to me that they are going to limit easy install of downloaded debs and installation of apt repositories. That is limiting innstall sources, Why?

"Firstly, I would assert that we are largely responsible for the
security of Ubuntu users' systems:

We cannot assume that our users are sufficiently knowledgeable and
experienced to know what is and is not an acceptable risk to take."

The developers know more than us dumb users on what should be easy to install. If I download a deb, I want to install it. It should be as easy as can be, since its my computer. I make the call as to what to install. Thats freedom.

2. I guess you dont know the history of that mail list. Its never had spam. It was open until last version.

I'm not misrepresenting anything. I think you may not have enough knowledge to know a mail list archive from a article, or the lists past history.

[Kilz]

Well, this actually happens, in case you didn't know, and it's good that there are measures out there that try to limit air pollution.

I was not talking about pollution and you know it. Thats just spin.

Try this , limit your air intake, Put a plastic bag tightly over your head and try to breath.

[Frak]

I was not talking about pollution and you know it. Thats just spin.

Try this , limit your air intake, Put a plastic bag tightly over your head and try to breath.

Puts less Carbon-Dioxide into the air

[p_quarles]

@Kils: There you go again, attacking people instead of offering even the faintest outline of an argument. Yes, I misspoke: it's an e-mail.

Now, can you please be specific about which of the four software freedoms [gnu.org] would be compromised in the event that this proposal were ever to be implemented in an official Ubuntu release?

So far, you've said "dude, I wasn't talking about you, so I guess you must consider yourself a blind follower" and "dude, you think that's an article? You're dumb." This is flamebait, and if you do any more of it in this thread, you're getting reported. Now: please look at my argument and try to respond like a civilized interlocuter.

[23meg]

2. I guess you dont know the history of that mail list.

And neither do you.

Last year when the signal to noise ratio went low, posts from non-developers started to be moderated. For non-moderated discussion, which is still followed (though less frequently, which was the whole point) and replied to by the developers, a separate list called ubuntu-devel-discuss was started.

This means that your relevant replies that have some merit to whatever is posted ubuntu-devel can still go through to ubuntu-devel, or in the worst case, you can post to ubuntu-devel-discuss, which is still frequented by the developers.

Its never had spam.

How about addressing the rest of what p_quarles is saying?

spam, half-baked ideas, repetitious feature requests, etc., etc.

Did it become flooded with half-baked ideas and repetitious feature requests or not? Did it start to host arguments between non-developers, matters of personal opinion and even flame wars, that belong to the sounder or ubuntu-users mailing lists, or not? Did people post their technical support questions to ubuntu-devel with the hope of getting "the best possible help" "straight from the developers" or not?

Last year when someone asked questions it was closed.

Asked what kind of questions? Technical support? Whether feature foo will be included in the next release? May those have been considered as factors lowering the signal to noise ratio of the list and making it inefficient?

The purpose of the list is communication and discussion between the people who actually do the work. If people's ability to do the work is inhibited by so called noise, it's an acceptable solution to switch to moderated mode, and start a separate unmoderated mailing list. It's been done in many other places. It has nothing to do with censoring people or not wanting to listen to people's opinions, but of course, for people who distort facts to make a storm in a teacup, it's perfect bait.

There's nothing keeping anyone from posting to ubuntu-devel-discuss or joining #ubuntu-devel on Freenode to get involved in development discussions.

[multifaceted]

My lack of developing knowledge impedes my ability to make a vaible rebuttal or even a reply...

I must say, if this is in fact a prospect on the horizon... I don't know what I'll do. Reasons like this are why I ditched Windows in the first place!

Yes, I still seldom use WinXP but, it is strictly for my Adobe and recording apps... the internet does not touch that install.