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Thread: How are you going to deal with 64bit?

  1. #21
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    Re: How are you going to deal with 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by daveshields View Post
    There's little reason to use 64bit unless you have an application that requires a large (>2GB) address space. Othewise, the performance of 32bit will be quite close to that of 64bit.
    Open K9Copy and shrink and copy a DVD or open DeVeDe and create a DVD and then talk about performance. Even better try to make a bug tar.gz file or apply some filters on Gimp on big files.

    Even the boot time is lower. We have people rebuilding the kernel to optimize it for their CPU and yet other people claim that 64bit Linux for 64bit CPUs makes no difference.
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  2. #22
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    Re: How are you going to deal with 64bit?

    I can still see a small reason in suggesting to people that they use 32 bit if they are extreme beginners. In my personal experience, even though it was (moderately) easily fixed by a quick search of the forums, I had some extra problems when I switched to 64 bit. I also saw *no* performance difference, I'm guessing beacuse of my quite modest ram. (512)

    If people are already scared of all the basic problems that are happening in 32 bit, why would you want to add on the extra problems for 64 bit? After they learn to diagnose, to run scripts and search properly for help, they can upgrade to 64 bit. The minor problems are very minor, but...only if you have a vague idea of what your doing.

    Anyways, upgrading to 64 bit can be a small project if you have started to learn your way around...kinda fun

  3. #23
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    Re: How are you going to deal with 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by daveshields View Post
    There's little reason to use 64bit unless you have an application that requires a large (>2GB) address space. Othewise, the performance of 32bit will be quite close to that of 64bit.
    See this is how it starts. Someone posts what seems to be fact, and when full time users of 64bit technology ask for proof that their statement is fact, and not opinion that is when the warring/etc tends to start.

    IMHO if users are going to make statements be it in favor of 32bit or 64bit they should at least state it's their opinion, and if it is factual then include a link to at least give some validity to their statement.
    Advantages and Disadvantages of 64bit.(Plus install Guides)

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  4. #24
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    Re: How are you going to deal with 64bit?

    I would like to thank the members (Kilz, rsambuca, and afonic) running the 64 bit version for raising your issues.

    Needless to say I strongly disagree with much of what you are saying, but I am not going to debate the issue further.

    SD-Plissken has provided very helpful information and I would again thank him for his efforts. I would encourage members of the Beginner Team to read through the link in order to understand the benefits, differences, and disadvantages of 32 vs. 64 versions.

    I think SD-Plissken also made the best statement regarding any potential "policy".

    Quote Originally Posted by SD-Plissken View Post
    IMHO there is no real way to have a definitive beginners team policy on 32 vs 64 bit, As each enduser/teammember will run the architecture they are use to, and the architecture they want to for their own reasons.
    I am sorry you feel that FUD has been spread regarding the 64 bit, but as has been pointed out, most of this thread is nothing more then opinions anyways.

    Is the 32 bit version problem free ? no.
    Is the 64 bit version problem free ? no.

    Are there advantages to running 64 bit ? yes.
    Are there advantages to running 32 bit (on a 64 bit arch)? yes.

    If you can not see the advantages and disadvantages then I would question your ability to offer the best advice to new users, which is the implicit goal of the Beginner team.

    To me the "bottom line" in terms of a policy are :

    1. Users are free to run their systems as they choose. We (the beginners team) do not set any policy such as users MUST run the 64 bit version any more then we have a policy that they MUST run the 32 bit version. The 64 bit users have no right to demand that everyone with a 64 bit processor MUST run the 64 version of Ubuntu or that the beginner team can not advise someone to run the 32 bit version. We also do not say you must run Dapper or Edgy or Feisty or Gutsy. We help new users transition to Ubuntu and if you look here it should be clear that I expect no flame wars in this subsection.

    2. The beginners team will offer as much assistance as we can, including referring to the 64 bit subsection. It would obviously be helpful if members from the 64 bit community were willing to volunteer with the Beginner Team, otherwise whose fault is it that 64 bit users are under-represented (on the beginner team)?

    3. It follows from #1 and #2, the beginners team members are free to advise what they feel is best for the situation, including the suggestion to run 32 bit.

    4. If there are members with 64 bit experience that would be willing to assist with the beginners team they would be welcome to do so. HOWEVER, as should be obvious, I do have a different standard of behavior for the Beginning team members and would hold you to those standards. Terms like "FUD" or "lies" are inflammatory and do not help new users. I would expect more respectful language when posting as a member of the beginner team.

    In conclusion, this thread is in the Beginners Team sub forums. I do not want or welcome flame wars here. As such I expect you (64 bit users) to use a more respectful tone and avoid inflammatory posts. We, the beginners team, is willing to work with you, but your language, as has been pointed out several times, could stand some improvement.

    I find terms like "FUD" and "lies" to be inappropriate and inflammatory to the subject hand. This type of language does not build trust or a working relationship between us, nor does it assist new users better learn to run 64 bit. If you insist on using such language on the Beginner sub forum, or if I see you treating my team members in such a way on the 64 bit forum, I will hand out infractions.

    I am leaving this thread open at the moment, but I will close it we can not seem to get back on topic, which would be:

    1. How can the beginner team help new 64 bit users.

    2. How can the 64 bit users help the beginner team with #1.
    Last edited by bodhi.zazen; September 7th, 2007 at 09:42 PM.
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  5. #25
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    Re: How are you going to deal with 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by bodhi.zazen View Post
    I would like to thank the members (Kilz, rsambuca, and afonic) running the 64 bit version for raising your issues.

    Needless to say I strongly disagree with much of what you are saying, but I am not going to debate the issue further.

    SD-Plissken has provided very helpful information and I would again thank him for his efforts. I would encourage members of the Beginner Team to read through the link in order to understand the benefits, differences, and disadvantages of 32 vs. 64 versions.

    I think SD-Plissken also made the best statement regarding any potential "policy".



    I am sorry you feel that FUD has been spread regarding the 64 bit, but as has been pointed out, most of this thread is nothing more then opinions anyways.

    Is the 32 bit version problem free ? no.
    Is the 64 bit version problem free ? no.

    Are there advantages to running 64 bit ? yes.
    Are there advantages to running 32 bit (on a 64 bit arch)? yes.

    If you can not see the advantages and disadvantages then I would question your ability to offer the best advice to new users, which is the implicit goal of the Beginner team.

    To me the "bottom line" in terms of a policy are :

    1. Users are free to run their systems as they choose. We (the beginners team) do not set any policy such as users MUST run the 64 bit version any more then we have a policy that they MUST run the 32 bit version. The 64 bit users have no right to demand that everyone with a 64 bit processor MUST run the 64 version of Ubuntu or that the beginner team can not advise someone to run the 32 bit version. We also do not say you must run Dapper or Edgy or Feisty or Gutsy. We help new users transition to Ubuntu and if you look here it should be clear that I expect no flame wars in this subsection.

    2. The beginners team will offer as much assistance as we can, including referring to the 64 bit subsection. It would obviously be helpful if members from the 64 bit community were willing to volunteer with the Beginner Team, otherwise whose fault is it that 64 bit users are under-represented (on the beginner team)?

    3. It follows from #1 and #2, the beginners team members are free to advise what they feel is best for the situation, including the suggestion to run 32 bit.

    4. If there are members with 64 bit experience that would be willing to assist with the beginners team they would be welcome to do so. HOWEVER, as should be obvious, I do have a different standard of behavior for the Beginning team members and would hold you to those standards. Terms like "FUD" or "lies" are inflammatory and do not help new users. I would expect more respectful language when posting as a member of the beginner team.

    In conclusion, this thread is in the Beginners Team sub forums. I do not want or welcome flame wars here. As such I expect you (64 bit users) to use a more respectful tone and avoid inflammatory posts. We, the beginners team, is willing to work with you, but your language, as has been pointed out several times, could stand some improvement.

    I find terms like "FUD" and "lies" to be inappropriate and inflammatory to the subject hand. This type of language does not build trust or a working relationship between us, nor does it assist new users better learn to run 64 bit. If you insist on using such language on the Beginner sub forum, or if I see you treating my team members in such a way on the 64 bit forum, I will hand out infractions.

    I am leaving this thread open at the moment, but I will close it we can not seem to get back on topic, which would be:

    1. How can the beginner team help new 64 bit users.

    2. How can the 64 bit users help the beginner team with #1.
    Thank you for that. I would love to help you. But I fear that your standards are above what I consider common normal words.
    Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt is a huge problem. One that is based on bias. One the person may not even recognize as being a problem. That the term for it cant be used will make discussing it even harder.
    All I hoped for was that when people see someone with the 64bit version asking questions they do not assume what version they should install. Directing them to the 64bit sub forum is a great idea.
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  6. #26
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    Re: How are you going to deal with 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seisen View Post
    I think its your choice of words and the way that is coming across is what the problem is. I am not trying to attack you but we can only grasp the context of the words used and how they are written. Maybe taking a different approach to the situtation and saying something like this.
    I am who I am. I write as I think and talk. While I may be blunt, I believe in the truth. I dont think writing like that would be me, and I like who I am.
    I trust Microsoft as far as I could comfortably spit a dead rat

    I'm in my third year at a Lutheran seminary!

  7. #27
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    Re: How are you going to deal with 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by afonic View Post
    Open K9Copy and shrink and copy a DVD or open DeVeDe and create a DVD and then talk about performance. Even better try to make a bug tar.gz file or apply some filters on Gimp on big files.

    Even the boot time is lower. We have people rebuilding the kernel to optimize it for their CPU and yet other people claim that 64bit Linux for 64bit CPUs makes no difference.
    OK, according to your list the only advantage a normal user would see is a slightly quicker boot time.
    The moon will illuminate my room and soon I'm consumed by my doom.

  8. #28
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    Re: How are you going to deal with 64bit?

    I've no idea if this is helpful, but I'm a newbie (been using Ubuntu for about 6 weeks and it's my first experience with linux). So here's my experience.

    • I had a new processor. I wanted to know whether to use the 32 or 64 bit version.
    • I did some searches on the forum and rapidly found a number of helpful stickies in the 64 bit forum discussing the differences and difficulties. They seemed minimal.
    • On that basis, I decided to start with 64 bit and see if it caused difficulties.


    It didn't. I knew I was going to end up using a 32 bit browser to get java/flash. All the other apps I was interested in existed for 64 bit.

    So far I've had a few minor problems and none that I have any reason to believe are 64 bit specific.

    It is a source of amazement to me how many questions I see around here that demonstrate no ability to use a search tool - but that's off topic. It seems to me that the first response of the beginners' team to the question 64 or 32 should be to point users to the stickies on the subject.

    It also seems to me that the default answers for someone with a 64 bit CPU should be "start with 64 bit. In the unlikely event that you find a problem you can't fix that is 64 bit related, you can always switch."

    Sure, depending on usage, they may not see a significant performance boost - but they're certainly not likely to see worse performance.

    Why steer people to using a version not native for their hardware unless they have a specific need that 64 bit is known not to meet?

  9. #29
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    Re: How are you going to deal with 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsley View Post
    OK, according to your list the only advantage a normal user would see is a slightly quicker boot time.
    This is just childish baiting.

    Would a mod please just close this thread now.

  10. #30
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    Re: How are you going to deal with 64bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krydahl View Post
    I've no idea if this is helpful, but I'm a newbie (been using Ubuntu for about 6 weeks and it's my first experience with linux). So here's my experience.

    • I had a new processor. I wanted to know whether to use the 32 or 64 bit version.
    • I did some searches on the forum and rapidly found a number of helpful stickies in the 64 bit forum discussing the differences and difficulties. They seemed minimal.
    • On that basis, I decided to start with 64 bit and see if it caused difficulties.


    It didn't. I knew I was going to end up using a 32 bit browser to get java/flash. All the other apps I was interested in existed for 64 bit.

    So far I've had a few minor problems and none that I have any reason to believe are 64 bit specific.

    It is a source of amazement to me how many questions I see around here that demonstrate no ability to use a search tool - but that's off topic. It seems to me that the first response of the beginners' team to the question 64 or 32 should be to point users to the stickies on the subject.

    It also seems to me that the default answers for someone with a 64 bit CPU should be "start with 64 bit. In the unlikely event that you find a problem you can't fix that is 64 bit related, you can always switch."

    Sure, depending on usage, they may not see a significant performance boost - but they're certainly not likely to see worse performance.

    Why steer people to using a version not native for their hardware unless they have a specific need that 64 bit is known not to meet?
    Thank you for that feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by rsambuca View Post
    This is just childish baiting.

    Would a mod please just close this thread now.
    LOL

    That is how I felt about the OP !!!
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