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Thread: Windows refund on laptops thread

  1. #1
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    Windows refund on laptops thread

    As the EULA-declined Windows refund issue is a BIG, PERSISTENT problem on laptops, this thread is meant to be a place to collect and discuss the current state of the Windows Refund Problem across the globe, with the hope that this thread will be made sticky in the Laptops forum.

    It appears some positive movement is happening in the UK-

    http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009...for-amazon-uk/

    http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?.../07/23/1855211

    with some past success with Dell reported here

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...windows+refund

    Those of us in the PC game since the early 90's know this has been an issue for a long

    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=99/01/18/1539214

    http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html

    long time.

    It has been reported in the mainstream media as long-

    http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/99...idg/index.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/...er-briefs.html

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...28/BU74183.DTL

    IMO, this problem is coming to a head, with judges in France,

    http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?.../05/19/0154224

    Italy
    http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/27/1952257

    and Israel
    http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/03/1949230

    awarding refunds.

    What can be done to force US vendors like the Dell.com's and HP.com's of the world to provide an easy access, easy to remit procedure to remove the cost of the Windows license and/or obtain the refund?
    Last edited by rgb1701; July 24th, 2009 at 06:59 PM.

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    Re: Windows refund on laptops thread

    woo cheaper computers!

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    Re: Windows refund on laptops thread

    This is one of the best overviews of MS's Windows licensing practices with OEM's I've seen-

    http://forums.vr-zone.com/notebooks-...the-facts.html

    Of note

    "Microsoft won’t talk publicly about how much it charges OEMs per copy of Windows they preload on new machines. As a result of the company’s settlement years ago with the U.S. Department of Justice, we do know that Microsoft can no longer use the price of Windows to discriminate against its top 20 PC maker partners. All of these partners pay the same per copy of Windows. (Below that top tier, there is more variance in pricing, based on volume of machines sold and other factors.)

    “Getting an answer to what Microsoft charges an OEM is nearly impossible,” said Michael Cherry, an analyst with Directions on Microsoft. “Neither Microsoft nor the OEMs like to talk about this. Anecdotally, I have heard from the OEMs and Wall Street Analysts that the Windows OS could be the emost expensive single element in a PC. I have also heard people suggest it is the only element that never goes down in price. But I cannot vouch for the truth of these assertions.”


    I’ve heard the same “anecdotes” as Cherry. Back in the Windows 95 days, I do know Microsoft was charging the top PC makers roughly $60 to $70 per copy of Windows on new machines. Each subsequent version of Windows typically cost OEMs a few dollars more — regardless of how much the PC sells for at retail/in volume. Microsoft argued that it was including more features and functionality in each new release, so even if consumers weren’t willing to pay more per PC, OEMs should have to cough up more money for each new version of Windows.

    Microsoft’s relationship with its PC-maker partners is not totally adversarial. With Windows Vista, for example, Microsoft and the OEMs were in cahoots to find a way to get users to buy “premium” PCs running “premium” releases of Windows. (A plan that backfired, by the way, as the ongoing class-action suit over “Windows Capable” has made all too clear.) With Windows 7, Microsoft and certain PC makers are looking to offset plummeting PC revenues with higher-priced touch-enabled PCs."

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    Re: Windows refund on laptops thread

    A recent story of one man's adventure getting his Windows refund from HP

    http://equiliberate.org/?q=node/3

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    Re: Windows refund on laptops thread

    Here is another one for you http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12...s_eula_israel/
    I think I am personally indebted to the guy for being able to buy a Dell noetbook sans Windows. If only more people around the world dared.

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    Re: Windows refund on laptops thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhatever View Post
    Here is another one for you http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12...s_eula_israel/
    I think I am personally indebted to the guy for being able to buy a Dell noetbook sans Windows. If only more people around the world dared.
    It is time for all vendors to adhere to the legal-binding EULA and offer easy credit/refund to anyone who declines the Windows license.

    These ad hoc, case-by-case anecdotes are all well and good, but it's high time for aggressive Attorney General's of US states, and of the US itself, to enforce the rights of consumers and force all major PC vendors to comply in a consistent, easy to access manner.

    This means providing simple "No OS" (and/or Freedos, like Dell used to) options on their "configure PC/notebook" web wizards, with the corresponding Windows OEM value

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116480

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116485

    deducted.

    And no, they can't weasel out of the *hardware* warranties- software questions or issues, yes, but full hardware coverage cannot be denied.

    I encourage others out there to contact their state Attorney General on this issue, with the relevant section of the Windows EULA highlighted or quoted in your letter/email.
    Last edited by rgb1701; July 24th, 2009 at 07:20 PM.

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    Re: Windows refund on laptops thread

    Get a copy of the MS EULA here-
    http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/

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    Re: Windows refund on laptops thread

    One of the best posts from the original /. article-
    http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?.../07/23/1855211

    "by javilon (99157) on Thursday July 23, @03:52PM (#28799305)

    To me, of all things that have been considered as a remedy against Microsoft monopoly abuse, the only one that is logical and practical would be to stop them from bundling hardware and software. I can't understand why this hasn't been done by either the EU or USA.

    Software and hardware are clearly two different markets. You can install Windows in hardware from a number of vendors, and you can install a number of operating systems on a PC.

    So you would buy a computer and you would get two receipts, one for the machine and another one for the OS. The OS can even be preinstalled on the machine and you would only get an activation key with your receipt. If you don't want the operating system, you just buy the hardware and don't pay for the activation key.

    What really makes me mad is that the only reason this is not considered by the authorities is because Linux is not commercial, so they are not losing money from Microsoft's monopoly abuse. Only companies matter to government. The fact that the public would benefit from an operating system market where Linux would be allowed to compete on equals grounds is not relevant to the government because there is no single company making money from Linux."

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    Re: Windows refund on laptops thread

    Remember, the Windows Refund Problem is not limited to Linux/FOSS "zealots"- XP users continue to be dogged by Vista, wanting to install their own copy of XP vs the Vista preinstalls. Here is a discussion of the Vista refund among Windows users-

    http://www.techeaven.com/2007/05/10/...ta-oem-refund/

    http://www.vistax64.com/vista-genera...nd-policy.html
    Last edited by rgb1701; July 24th, 2009 at 07:39 PM.

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    Re: Windows refund on laptops thread

    Anyone else get a refund on your laptop with Windows preinstalled?

    If so, please post your story...

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