Linux Unfriendly Retailers - Gap, Banana Republic, Old Navy

[psyguy92]

I commented to a friend of mine that I wanted a decent quality linen shirt or two. She suggested Banana Republic. (http://www.bananarepublic.com) Visiting their site, I see this:



We're sorry, but we do not support the version of the browser you are using.
Our site works best with the following browsers:

PC users
Internet Explorer 5.5 and above
Netscape 7 and above
Mozilla (including Firefox) 1.0 and above

Mac users
Netscape 7 and above
Mozilla (including Firefox) 1.0 and above

We're working on supporting Safari. Please check back soon.


Needless to say, I was/am ticked. Try it yourself. All these sites (and companies) in the post's title are owned by Gap, Inc. (http://www.gapinc.com) Old Navy (http://www.oldnavy.com) and The Gap (http://www.gap.com) show the same messages.

I wanted to complain, but I couldn't get their email from their page. Same errors. I had to search online for the email address. Here is the email I sent to the three companies. If you feel as I do, I encourage you to let them know you are displeased as well.

:mad:

To:
custserv@bananarepublic.com, custserv@gap.com, custserv@oldnavy.com

Subject:
You have just lost a sale

Body:

-=quote=-
We're sorry, but we do not support the version of the browser you are using.
-=endquote=-

Well I'm sorry, but it seems I won't be purchasing from you.
There is no reason that you should block Linux. I refuse to use a user agent switching plugin in my recent version Firefox browser (which you claim to support) in order to buy from you. I understand you have received complaints about this. I could not even use your customer service link on your page to send a complaint email, so I googled for "customer service email banana republic". This led me here:
http://justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=143574

I am now posting a copy of this email to another Linux forum. Hopefully, others will refrain from buying from you until you fix your website. This goes for your other stores (Gap and Old Navy).

[PatrickMay16]

I think it would have been a much better idea to send them a proper businesslike email explaining why it would be a good idea to fix their page for all web browsers instead of a personal flame.

http://toastytech.com/good/badsitelist.html

As the man Lineback says on that page:
"Despite all of that, if you choose to send e-mail to the web masters please do not flame them, send something constructive like the Mozilla Site Evangelism Letters."

[Paulus]

yes, they love formality, I expect they receive alot of emails, yours need to stand out for the right reasons, not the wrong ones, then you should expect a more involved answer.

there is the emu I.E alternative /w wine. But thats not spanktastic. It's all about spreading the word of linux.

let us know the reply!

[psyguy92]

I think it would have been a much better idea to send them a proper businesslike email explaining why it would be a good idea to fix their page for all web browsers instead of a personal flame.

http://toastytech.com/good/badsitelist.html

As the man Lineback says on that page:
"Despite all of that, if you choose to send e-mail to the web masters please do not flame them, send something constructive like the Mozilla Site Evangelism Letters."

Please feel free to send a formal-style email. Perhaps my tone was a bit snooty, but I thought I was reserving the flamethrower for the most part :D

Oh, and I probably wouldn't flame the webmaster. They're probably taking orders from 'higher up', no?

[psoleko]

Looks like it's detecting the OS as not Windows or Mac. The browser support seems fine...sorry to say it but the firefox extension User Agent is your friend.

[GeneralZod]

The really confusing aspect of this is that they seem to be comparatively progressive in terms of browser support compared to the typical "Microsoft Shop" breed of website, as evidenced by the fact that they even know about the existence of Firefox and Safari, let alone the fact that they actually support them!

I can't imagine why they don't extend this support to Linux - I wonder if they are actively blocking (blacklisting) browsers with "Linux" in the user agent string, or whether they just haven't added it to the whitelist?

[poptones]

The "browser switcher" is NOT your friend. If server logs do not reflect linux usage then how are the bean counters going to know they're at a disadvantage by not supporting it?

And that "we're sorry" notice is every bit as terse and offensive as any flame... torch on!

[dare2dreamer]

I had a recent bought of this in real life, while trying to locate parts for my shiney new ubuntu-htpc. I wandered over to our local retailer of things PC, Microcenter.

Now, you have to understand, walking in the door I was feeling pretty good about things. Microcenter advertises linux-based pc's for sale, offers a couple of the major distros boxed on the shelves and generally gives all appearances of paying a little more than the usual blank stares to the penguin set.

I strolled back into the networking section in hopes of scoring a wireless card that would play nicely under linux. Now, let me clear a few major points up:

1. I wasn't expecting a shelf marked "best for linux" (but it's an excellent idea.)
2. I wasn't expecting much in the way of help from the retailer in question.
3. I respond violently to hand-waving and being lied to.

So, after pondering for a few minutes, one of the sales staff came up to me and mumbled the usual "canihelpyou" while avoiding eye contact.

(Point of order here. I'm a pretty scary guy, so this sort of thing rarely phases me anymore.)

I politely explain that I'm looking for a wireless card, and asked if he had any recommendations for one that was known to work under linux because obviously the manufacturers weren't so hot about putting that sort of thing on the boxes.

He said, "These are for win-doze and mac Oh-sex." (his pronounciation, not mine.)

"I'm fully aware of that. Hence my question."

It seemed like a logical response at the time. His response proved his wind-up key needed checking.

"These are for win-doze and mac oh-Sex." (This time he hit the last syllable with a little more fervor.)

Okay, marketing drone number three has spoken. I try a different tactic, assuming he is in fact not a moron.

"Yes, yes...I'm aware these are packaged for those other operating systems, but I don't use them. I use linux. Can you yourself recommend a wireless card for me to purchase, or perhaps point me to anyone in this store who can?"

"If you are interested in Lie-nukes, you'll have to go to the manufacturer's website and see if they _are willing_ support you." (I love this guy's cadence, it speaks volumes. In his head, Apple makes sex, Microsoft merely makes you sleepy, but I might first tell falsehoods then blow up the city. You'd think I'd get more respect were that the case.)

Rather than going off about how manufacturers were unlikely to be of much help (and a diatribe on why), I try a more logical approach.

"Say, don't you sell linux computers?"

"Yes, in the PC's section"

"Do they come with wireless cards?"

"No, sir, they do not."

"Ok. Let's say I wander over there and put one in my shopping cart. A linux-based pc. One that you want to sell me AND make a commission on.

More importantly, one your company advertises the holy hell out of. I come up to you, and like a fool I want to buy this miracle of modern technology AND a wireless card to boot. Which one should I buy sir?"

"You'll need to check the manufac-"

"Buuuuuuzzzzz! Oh, I'm sorry - wrong answer. You forgot that someone coming in that door other than someone like me is probably an idiot, and isn't going to do that research. How are you, as a representative of this establishment, going to politely explain that you sell something you neither know about nor are you willing to help them with a solution."

"You'll...have...to...ask...my...manager..?"

If it were still in style, I would have smacked him on my way out. Correction, on my way out, no purchases in hand, and antagonized by the company's employees and way of doing business.

I don't pay for my operating system. Folks, that means I'm likely to spend a bit more on my hardware. Or maybe I'm the guy who buys parts for a second machine (See above, I was). Or even if I don't spend a nickel, I'm probably the geek all the neighbors ask tech questions to.

Know what I'm telling them now?

"Microcenter lies about what they sell."

So yeah, it happens off the net too.

[Kelpie]

thats very sad, kinda makes them look bad! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/sylentdeath/10.gif

[aysiu]

The really confusing aspect of this is that they seem to be comparatively progressive in terms of browser support compared to the typical "Microsoft Shop" breed of website, as evidenced by the fact that they even know about the existence of Firefox and Safari, let alone the fact that they actually support them! Actually, they don't support Safari--only Firefox on Mac.

[GeneralZod]

Actually, they don't support Safari--only Firefox on Mac.

Oops - OK, they claim to be "working on supporting Safari", then :)

[towsonu2003]

I had a recent bought of this in real life, while trying to locate parts for my shiney new ubuntu-htpc. I wandered over to our local retailer of things PC, Microcenter.

Now, you have to understand, walking in the door I was feeling pretty good about things. Microcenter advertises linux-based pc's for sale, offers a couple of the major distros boxed on the shelves and generally gives all appearances of paying a little more than the usual blank stares to the penguin set.

I strolled back into the networking section in hopes of scoring a wireless card that would play nicely under linux. Now, let me clear a few major points up:

1. I wasn't expecting a shelf marked "best for linux" (but it's an excellent idea.)
2. I wasn't expecting much in the way of help from the retailer in question.
3. I respond violently to hand-waving and being lied to.

So, after pondering for a few minutes, one of the sales staff came up to me and mumbled the usual "canihelpyou" while avoiding eye contact.

(Point of order here. I'm a pretty scary guy, so this sort of thing rarely phases me anymore.)

I politely explain that I'm looking for a wireless card, and asked if he had any recommendations for one that was known to work under linux because obviously the manufacturers weren't so hot about putting that sort of thing on the boxes.

He said, "These are for win-doze and mac Oh-sex." (his pronounciation, not mine.)

"I'm fully aware of that. Hence my question."

It seemed like a logical response at the time. His response proved his wind-up key needed checking.

"These are for win-doze and mac oh-Sex." (This time he hit the last syllable with a little more fervor.)

Okay, marketing drone number three has spoken. I try a different tactic, assuming he is in fact not a moron.

"Yes, yes...I'm aware these are packaged for those other operating systems, but I don't use them. I use linux. Can you yourself recommend a wireless card for me to purchase, or perhaps point me to anyone in this store who can?"

"If you are interested in Lie-nukes, you'll have to go to the manufacturer's website and see if they _are willing_ support you." (I love this guy's cadence, it speaks volumes. In his head, Apple makes sex, Microsoft merely makes you sleepy, but I might first tell falsehoods then blow up the city. You'd think I'd get more respect were that the case.)

Rather than going off about how manufacturers were unlikely to be of much help (and a diatribe on why), I try a more logical approach.

"Say, don't you sell linux computers?"

"Yes, in the PC's section"

"Do they come with wireless cards?"

"No, sir, they do not."

"Ok. Let's say I wander over there and put one in my shopping cart. A linux-based pc. One that you want to sell me AND make a commission on.

More importantly, one your company advertises the holy hell out of. I come up to you, and like a fool I want to buy this miracle of modern technology AND a wireless card to boot. Which one should I buy sir?"

"You'll need to check the manufac-"

"Buuuuuuzzzzz! Oh, I'm sorry - wrong answer. You forgot that someone coming in that door other than someone like me is probably an idiot, and isn't going to do that research. How are you, as a representative of this establishment, going to politely explain that you sell something you neither know about nor are you willing to help them with a solution."

"You'll...have...to...ask...my...manager..?"

If it were still in style, I would have smacked him on my way out. Correction, on my way out, no purchases in hand, and antagonized by the company's employees and way of doing business.

I don't pay for my operating system. Folks, that means I'm likely to spend a bit more on my hardware. Or maybe I'm the guy who buys parts for a second machine (See above, I was). Or even if I don't spend a nickel, I'm probably the geek all the neighbors ask tech questions to.

someone make this one a sticky or something? :) and make title 'howto buy linux hardware from a store'

[basketcase]

That's hilarious!

[LordHunter317]

The "browser switcher" is NOT your friend. If server logs do not reflect linux usage then how are the bean counters going to know they're at a disadvantage by not supporting it?They do, their programmers screwed up by adding browser detect Javascript.

That's the real travesty here: browser detects based on User Agent are bad, and inevitably result in the screwups such as the one seen here.

[matthewstory]

the citibank website does the same crap.

regards,
matt

[psyguy92]

They do, their programmers screwed up by adding browser detect Javascript.

That's the real travesty here: browser detects based on User Agent are bad, and inevitably result in the screwups such as the one seen here.

What other way do you determine browser type? I assume determining browser type is necessary. If I were a retailer, I'd not want to allow an old version of IE on an unpatched older Windows system to buy from me. Imagine the chargebacks! Of course, I'd explain in the error message WHY the user is blocked.

Lets send them a solution. I know you are all anxious to spend at these stores *grin*.

P.S. Has anyone else sent them an email? I'm still waiting on my form-letter reply.

[LordHunter317]

What other way do you determine browser type?You don't, at all.

Javascript allows you to test if an object has a function before calling it. You simply test for the functionality you need and fallback if it doesn't exist. IOW, you can do:
if (document.getElementById) {
// getElementById() exists and can be used.
} else {
// It doesn't exist, use something else instead.
}


I assume determining browser type is necessary.There is one or two very fringe cases where it is, related to old versions of Opera that pretend to be to be IE. I don't know of any others, but they may exist.


If I were a retailer, I'd not want to allow an old version of IE on an unpatched older Windows system to buy from me.You may want to, the problem is you cannot determine that from the user agent.

[psyguy92]

For those of you interested, here's my response from Old Navy:

> Thank you for your e-mail regarding the internet browsers we support.
> We would like to apologize for the inconvenience you have experienced
> with our services. Please know that our goal here at oldnavy.com is to
> exceed our customer's expectations. We're sorry that, in this instance,
> we clearly did not meet yours, and hope that you will give us another
> opportunity in the future.
>
> If we may be of further assistance, please contact us via e-mail at
> custserv@oldnavy.com or by calling 1-800-OLD-NAVY. Our Customer Service
> Consultants are available 24 hours a day for your convenience.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Kaysha
> Customer Service Consultant

Though friendly and polite, she doesn't know what she's talking about. (Not that I expect her to, that's not her job/position to know about webdesign).
I clarified some points and asked that the message be forwarded to the webmaster.

BTW, I was in an Old Navy store today with a friend, but didn't buy anything. I'm waiting...

:rolleyes:

Oh, and i was more polite this time. Don't want too much karma, heh.