Ubuntu Forums Rant (rant)

[nakama85]

Note: After taking a look at the replies to this thread I wanted to let People know one thing.
I did not make this post from an Ubuntu is better than Windows stand point. I am simply speaking from the community help stand point.

Ok so I know that this might be a little on the harsh side and a little long. However I feel I have to get this out.

I am so tired of rant threads going up with titles like "I'm going back to windows unless" or "Ubuntu is not easy enough to use" or "Ubuntu does not do what windows..."

I have told many people that, yes if you are really into gaming than Ubuntu may not be for you, or unless your willing to take the time to do a little digging to find the solution to some problems your more than likely going to have, than Ubuntu may not be for you.

Lets face it. Microsoft not only has a stronghold on the computer industry but they also have a stronghold on the average user. Unless your willing to take the time to learn something new than no other OS is for you.

It's only common sense to do some research on something before you change to it. The forums for example. If you took one look at the forums before you installed Ubuntu then you would know that there are plenty of things that are not going to work "out of the box".

With computers being a regular part of life it is just stupid to go and wipe out your norm and try something new unless your truly ready to deal with the challenges you may be presented with. This means being prepared to deal with things not being the same as windows. Furthermore if you have gone from Xp to Vista and you say that everything has worked flawlessly than your a liar.

(Giving credit where credit is due)
Vista at the core level is immensely better than XP. In security and in build. However it's biggest fall-back is support and usability.
When I say support I mean in both product support and compatibility.
When I say usability I mean it lacks the intuitive feeling that XP had, thus making it difficult for an average user to change from XP to vista.

There is not a single person that could ever tell me that they can't find help with Ubuntu (there is huge community within the forums). Furthermore due to the fact that Ubuntu is open source just because something may not work out of the box does not mean there is not a way. You can get anything to work with Ubuntu with enough research and persistence.

I'm not even going to go into the numerous advantages that any Linux OS has over Windows.

There are so many people in these forums that take time out of their day to help others with their problems. I find it disrespectful to those people who are willing to help you when you make a thread about how your going back to windows unless you get help or any of the above mentioned etc.

I personally feel like it's a swift kick to the.....face.

In conclusion. If you would like to try Ubuntu then great. That is why Live CD, Wubi, Or even dual boot is possible. But nobody is forcing you to so don't disrespect the good and decent people in these Forums that are willing to help you by posting this crap. You are most certainly biting the hand that feeds you.

I mean I know that there is no way I am going to try to help someone if their thread title is "I'm going back to widows". If you don't want to be here then leave. But if you do want to than welcome to our community!!

[Grant A.]

Vista at the core level is immensely better than XP.


This is so understated, Vista is obviously the future foothold for new Windows OS's.



I find it disrespectful to those people who are willing to help you when you make a thread about how your going back to windows unless you get help or any of the above mentioned etc.


Some people just want Linux to get ahead by any means possible. Even resorting to kissing a troll's ***.

[ade234uk]

It annoys me too, as though we should feel sorry for people. Fact is people have become lazy, they want everyone thing to work first time and when it does not work first time in Ubuntu they come on here and slag it off, this is totally unacceptable.

I think people forget this is a FREE operating system, and that there are thousands of people working for no pay to create an operating system to be enjoyed by everyone.

These people that moan, ask them a simple question. What have Microsoft done in the past 15 years that has been free. Oh yeah, updates to plug the piece of crap Windows.

[speedwell68]

My Dad was like this "Linux doesn't work", I showed him Mint, which changed his mind slightly. The way I actually convinced him was this, "Dad back in the day we had a ZX81, which was completely different to an Acorn BBC Micro, yet you could switch between the two." As soon as you can get them into the "Yes it's different" mindset they'll be fine.

[nakama85]

I am glad to know that others agree. I was kinda thinking I was on my own!

[Oliver.BS]

I am glad to know that others agree. I was kinda thinking I was on my own!

Rome was not built in a day.The gamers will come back when we get Linux to its rightful position.

[Trail]

I am glad to know that others agree. I was kinda thinking I was on my own!

Nah. I assume many like me are lazy to post || avoid these threads altogether.

[4th guy]

I think people forget this is a FREE operating system, and that there are thousands of people working for no pay to create an operating system to be enjoyed by everyone.Most people don't realize that they have paid for the Windows license with the computer OR they have a pirated copy, so they won't appreciate the FREE operating system. I remembered how pissed I was when I was forced to buy another Windows XP copy just so that I could get an OEM computer. Next time I'll build my own.

[Yownanymous]

TBH, I don't know what everyone complains about when saying Ubuntu is unfriendly. The terminal doesn't do much differently from command prompt, you get .deb files nowadays which are easy to install like a .exe file. And in all honesty I find GNOME easier to work with than any Windows desktop I've used, be it 9x, XP, Server 2003, or Vista.

[3rdalbum]

I do agree; people find the need to tell all Ubuntu users of what they couldn't do correctly in the three or four days they spent with Ubuntu.

Take your time! It was a month before I tried installing 3D drivers (this was before Restricted Drivers Manager). It was two months before I seriously tried compiling anything. You don't need to have absolutely every last little niggle working immediately unless you are experienced with Linux. Especially not your floppy disk drive that only gets used when you need to reinstall Windows XP on your SATA hard disk.

If you can't understand a particular HOWTO, or it doesn't work for you, don't despair. Don't reinstall Windows. Take your computer to a local Linux User Group. The people there are able to help you; they can take your hand and show you how to do stuff. Would you quit a new job because you couldn't understand how to do a certain task? No, you'd ask your supervisor to show you how to do it. The people at LUGs are a great resource, sadly underused. Some problems are unusual and can only be solved by face-to-face consulting.

[Golem XIV]

My Dad was like this "Linux doesn't work", I showed him Mint, which changed his mind slightly. The way I actually convinced him was this, "Dad back in the day we had a ZX81, which was completely different to an Acorn BBC Micro, yet you could switch between the two." As soon as you can get them into the "Yes it's different" mindset they'll be fine.

Heh, I'm old enough to remember this. Jumping from a ZX81 to a BBC Micro was a huge leap forward, just like jumping from... um... Windows to Linux :-)

[tsali]

I see these kinds of posts differently.

The folks were having issues with their previous systems and thought they would give Linux/Ubuntu a shot. They EXPECT it to be better because everyone is telling them it is better.

Many desperately WANT to be able to replace their Windows systems and are frustrated when they are unable to do that.

In a lot of cases, if ALL of the features in Ubuntu delivered on their promise...e.g. functioned as designed, I think there would be a big reduction in these kinds of posts.

But, we have all experienced little issues that work together to color our experience...I had three yesterday:


Hinky Tracker behavior
Unable to access iTunes DAAP shares in Rhythmbox
Combo and List boxes do not work in Gnumeric


A lot of crosssover users don't get the "community work in progress" model. They hold vendors and Microsoft accountable for software problems in the Windows world. Who can they go to in Linux world?

Then they discover the secret...Linux users are expected to be much more self reliant than Windows users. I say "secret" because Linux enthusiasts see this as big positive and often assume that everyone else will too. When these crossover users fail to appreciate these "nuances" of the linux world, it's all too easy to take their frustration personally and dismiss them as lazy.

Have patience with them and let them vent. If you respond with understanding and an offer to help them work through issues, they are much more likely to give another shot.

[Eisenwinter]

This subject has been ranted on to a pulp - every week we see something like this.

[Skripka]

TBH, I don't know what everyone complains about when saying Ubuntu is unfriendly. The terminal doesn't do much differently from command prompt.


There was one poster yesterday who along with a "Linux is too hard for the average user" announcement, was griping that Terminl was not identical to a DOS propmpt in that it wouldn't confirm every single thing you did and that the commands were different.

Yeps, there is one of these threads every week or so. Kinda like the threads griping about the Gnome theme.

[aysiu]

I get annoyed by such rants also, but I don't blame the ranters. I blame the Ubuntu hype-builders.

These ranters are ranting because they feel misled, and they were misled. The vast majority of articles and blog posts about Ubuntu make it seem like magic that will do absolutely everything like Windows (but for free and without the need for antivirus). It is not a drop-in Windows replacement, and often those new users don't find this out until they rant on the forums.

Be honest up front (not after reading about someone's failed migration) regarding both the pros and cons of Ubuntu.

[KiwiNZ]

Its easy

assess the needs
review the alternatives
choose what best meets the needs, be it windows OSX or Linux

Simple

[nakama85]

Dont' get me wrong. I completely understand the frustrations that one can have with Ubuntu or any Linux OS after switching from windows. I'm not an Ubuntu guru. I seek help all the time.

I did not make this post from a Ubuntu is better than Windows stand point. I am simply speaking from the community help stand point.

What I am trying to say is don't come on here and try to make us feel like we must help you or you will switch back to windows as if it were an ultimatum. Personally I don't care. Ubuntu or any Linux OS is not for everyone. I am just trying to make the point that these people should give more respect to those who they are asking help from.

Instead of making a thread that reads.
absolute beginners>I am leaving Ubuntu and going back to Windows

They could make a post that reads
absolute beginners>Please help. Ubuntu frustrations

[omns]

its easy

assess the needs
review the alternatives
choose what best meets the needs, be it windows osx or linux

simple

+1

[MikeTheC]

nakama85:

Your points are well received, and I can understand your frustration.

The Linux community harkens back to a time in the computer world that was controlled -- whether it realized this or not -- by enthusiasts, not corporate interests, and certainly not non-enthusiast "AOL User"-types who bought a computer because, well, it's trendy, or hip, or fills some specific need they have (web surfing, IMing, email, gaming, etc.) These folks are the bane of any technology company's existence, and they are one of the major banes of the whole of the industry.

The F/OSS community preaches, amongst other things, independent self-reliance and self-sufficiency. How many of us here have not-so-fond memories ourselves of being told "RTFM!!!" by someone when we asked questions they considered beneath their station in life to answer? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating anti-social behavior, and I'm not suggesting the Linux community should ever return to the "bad old days". I mean, look at the 1999-2001 effort to mass-propagandize Linux to the world, only to have it fall flat on it's face because Linux really wasn't quite "ready for prime-time" then. This, to my mind, is evidenced by the enormous strides the community -- and that's the whole key to it, isn't it? -- has made in OS and app stability, usability, GUI modernization, and so on. There's nobody here today who can look at the Linux desktop today and go back and look at the Linux desktop of 8-10 years ago and not come away with irrefutable proof that there were things which could have been done better and now are.

However, no matter how good any OS gets, responsibility -- like charity, I think -- begins at home. And what I mean by that is people are responsible for their own education and betterment in life, regardless of whether or not they are either aware of that fact, nor whether they agree to it. And, let's face it, Microsoft has made a bundle of money -- as have multitudinous other companies over the years -- being willing to take up that responsibility, pre-chewing the user's food, if you will, for them so they can have a care-free existence.

Look at what it's got them -- an OS platform vendor which gets to abuse people on a daily basis, who can put out an OS that's clearly sub-par when compared to both of its contemporaries (that is, Mac OS X and Linux), a Goliath whom until relatively recently most people seemed more than happy to bend over for, all in exchange for an OS experience which enabled them not to have to think for themselves.

I know others here want to take pity on Windows users, and clearly there are many who are responsible and educated and take it upon themselves to do what they have to do, whether it's backing up data, cleaning up their registries, maintaining their system-defence software, not falling for phishing scams, and so on. But by the same token, there is an undeniable barrier-to-entry in the Linux community, and that barrier is, at it's most raw essence, personal responsibility. It would be, in my view, recklessly irresponsible for the F/OSS community to try and tamper with that. Equally well, it would also be a mistake for those of us here on UbuntuForums to try and tear it down ourselves.

Additionally, an OS platform is a tool as much as any application one uses is a tool, and not all tools are necessarily the best fit for all users. Sad to say, there are many who are better-served by continuing to use Windows, and our community is better for their absence from it. Perhaps this seems harsh, and no doubt there will be some amongst you who will not agree with what I have said here. But nevertheless, I view it as a natural force, and just as surely as you know it's wrong to crack the shell of an egg to help a new-born bird get out, it's just as wrong to turn Linux into another silver platter by letting individuals escape very much needed personal responsibility. Besides being a crutch for the mentality of many, Windows as a platform provides access to any number of legitimately valuable commercial applications, such as DreamWeaver, Photoshop and Peachtree, as well as any number of games, items which do not -- per se -- exist within the Linux platform. Again, not all tools are the best fit, nor are they all equal. That doesn't mean Linux will never have those apps -- or those kinds of apps of their caliber -- represented on Linux. One has only to consider the development history of Linux thus far to appreciate that fact.

I think the best approach, honestly, is to do what this community has been doing right along, and let the natural forces filter out those who lack the appropriate maturity or nature to become a part of us. Hopefully by being an example of how the technology community can be, both as individuals and as an inter-operating whole, we can raise the bar and improve the situation for all computer users.