[SOLVED] Automatix released under GPL

[arnieboy]

Automatix (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=66563) updated to version 3.4.7 with the General Public License

The automatix license ceases to be effective for the present and all future versions of automatix starting now.

I hope those of you who misunderstood my intentions discontinue doing so.

[az]

Glad to see you "get it". I hope this is because of what you beleive in the GPL and not what it obliges you to do.


Now, I hope that there are no longer any more threads locked and deleted about this or any other nonsense.

[arnieboy]

I wasnt obliged to do anything. I did it out of my own choice. what people think I got or I didnt is immaterial..

[az]

Whatever. Good choice.

[KingBahamut]

Glad to see you "get it". I hope this is because of what you beleive in the GPL and not what it obliges you to do.


Now, I hope that there are no longer any more threads locked and deleted about this or any other nonsense.

Andrew try not to be so smug or glib.

[kassetra]

Now, I hope that there are no longer any more threads locked and deleted about this or any other nonsense.

azz: We will lock or remove threads according to the forum guidelines, as we see fit. Get over it, it's not going to change.

[poptones]

This is why I hang here... watching the politics in this place is more entertaining than vintage Knott's Landing...

[matthew]

This is why I hang here... watching the politics in this place is more entertaining than vintage Knott's Landing...lol!

I had a witty response here, but I deleted it right before I hit "save."

[az]

azz: We will lock or remove threads according to the forum guidelines, as we see fit. Get over it, it's not going to change.

You make ubuntu look bad.

That was my issue with the automatix licence, too. Nothing personal against anyone there, either. I was not being smug as accused. I do not even use it.

Enough of this. I would not even be involved in this had you not deleted some of my posts.

[darkmatter]

You make ubuntu look bad

And you make yourself look like an arrogant ass...

[kassetra]

You make ubuntu look bad.

That was my issue with the automatix licence, too. Nothing personal against anyone there, either. I was not being smug as accused. I do not even use it.

Enough of this. I would not even be involved in this had you not deleted some of my posts.

no, azz, zealots like yourself make LINUX LOOK BAD. And if you didn't try to push your own views onto everyone else within sight with your poison keyboard, maybe we wouldn't have the urge to close/remove your posts.

[Gadren]

Maybe I'm putting my nose into something I shouldn't, but I'm just curious what the issue is... What was the Automatix License, and why was there a discrepancy between it and GPL?

Just curious.

[arnieboy]

Maybe I'm putting my nose into something I shouldn't, but I'm just curious what the issue is... What was the Automatix License, and why was there a discrepancy between it and GPL?

Just curious.
The automatix license required any modified version of automatix (of course with a different name) to be released with the sole permission of the maker of automatix.

[KiwiNZ]

Hey Arnieboy has done a good thing here. He has opened up a script that is brilliant.

My whole hearted thanks goes to him .

And as for those here trying divert this thread to their own crusades I am going to say something I never thought I would say here .

SHUT THE **** UP.

Arnieboy you have my total respect .

[az]

I don't hate anybody here.

[FLeiXiuS]

I don't hate anybody here.

Hypicritcal azzholes, gosh...

Congrats Arnieboy :-)

[codejunkie]

i have to say something i've been watching what's going on over the last couple of weeks with the automatix threads, and all the bickering that went on and starting again just makes people look down upon the ubuntu community. i have mixed views about the whole situation, the whole censorship thing with deleting peoples threads and such kinda bugged me because im not a fan of censorship. but in situations like this things needed to be done. the bickering would have went on and on with people throwing insults and wasting space on the boards if the administrators had let it. and i can't blame arnieboy for being a mad about what happend i saw the thread that set him off and it would have me to. it was nothing but a rip off of his hard work with a few lines changed, and a slap in the face insult at him for refusing to change his work just because they say said with no merit, and a plug for there so called updated version. that would have made anyone mad that put all that time into a project. i've looked through automatix and he's put some serious time in it for the community's benefit not his im sure and it is appericated by the people who use it, so arnieboy thanks for the hard work and releasing automatix under the GPL.
and lets try not to start this whole thing up again it only make for bad publicity.

[KingBahamut]

I don't hate anybody here.

No Andrew, but the really sad part is that you make it very difficult for me to like you. But I guess being well liked has nothing to do with whether your right or not, which seems to be more important to you.

Sad.

[keyes]

Pleased to see Automatix in the good way.

Thanks arnieboy for respecting the GPL ;-)

[kassetra]

Thanks arnieboy for respecting the GPL ;-)

Actually, arnieboy, I know you spent tons of time re-writing, revising, and re-doing your script so many times - it's a real treat that you chose to release your efforts under the gpl, for the benefit of other people - despite the many attempts to tarnish all of your hard work. You are a trooper.

Thank you for your generosity sir.

[manicka]

Actually, arnieboy, I know you spent tons of time re-writing, revising, and re-doing your script so many times - it's a real treat that you chose to release your efforts under the gpl, for the benefit of other people - despite the many attempts to tarnish all of your hard work. You are a trooper.

Thank you for your generosity sir.


ditto :)

[psyguy92]

Any possibility of putting this in the repos for Dapper?

:)

[arnieboy]

Thanks a lot everyone for the encouragement and support :)

[arnieboy]

Any possibility of putting this in the repos for Dapper?

:)
automatix currently is designed only for breezy.. I will probably release a dapper version once its stable.
as for going into the repos.. well no such plans yet.

[macgyver2]

First off, arnieboy, thanks for keeping Automatix GPL. I really think that's in the best spirit of things.

Now then, to address the rest of the thread. Let's see...


azz: We will lock or remove threads according to the forum guidelines, as we see fit. Get over it, it's not going to change.
Unfortunately, I've only begun following this issue again after a month's absence due to a relocation...of course I'm extremely disappointed that it's still an issue at all. I thought this was resolved after sabdfl and the CC advised against deleting posts (and also advised for more openness). I see I was wrong and that there continues to be an administrative--what's the phrase? ah yes--'circle jerk' in place on these forums.

But at least you are honest here, kassetra. "...according to the forum guidelines, as we see fit." As you see fit, indeed, which appears to mean--from reading the forums--that you hold some people (staff members, people you agree with/like) to lighter/different standards than others.

Now, if the forum staff likes such censorship and favoritism, fine. By all means, continue playing in your little clubhouse. But the part that really irks me is that these forums are "Official". From what I can see, the forums only wish to reap the benefit of the "Official" title without making the sacrifices that come with it, and that is just unacceptable.


no, azz, zealots like yourself make LINUX LOOK BAD. And if you didn't try to push your own views onto everyone else within sight with your poison keyboard, maybe we wouldn't have the urge to close/remove your posts.
The only difference between you and azz here is that you have the power to push your views on others and the power to shut down others' views when you don't like them.

[manicka]

That's a bit harsh macgyver2,

It seems to me that there is only a small group of people who are unhappy with the way the forums are run. I for one find it one of the best forums I've been associate with. While I respect your opinion I certainly don't have to agree with it.

To kassetra and all the staff.... keep up the great work :)

[Malphas]

I have to agree with macgyver2. My post in this thread was deleted for pointing out that kassetra's above statement was a personal attack, and I was sent a rather snide PM basically telling me to shut up. I don't necessarily agree with azz's opinion, but I still think he should have the right to voice it.

I really think the forum staff's behavior in this thread alone is disgraceful, and far worse than anything azz seems to have said.


And you make yourself look like an arrogant ass...

no, azz, zealots like yourself make LINUX LOOK BAD. And if you didn't try to push your own views onto everyone else within sight with your poison keyboard, maybe we wouldn't have the urge to close/remove your posts.

SHUT THE **** UP.

Hypicritcal azzholes, gosh...

No Andrew, but the really sad part is that you make it very difficult for me to like you. But I guess being well liked has nothing to do with whether your right or not, which seems to be more important to you.

Sad.

In my opinion this is appalling and uncalled for, and reflects badly on the forum and on Ubuntu itself.

[agger]

I agree that it's a great thing that Automatix is now under the GPL, and as the rest I think this kind of automation is a very good way of making life easier for the ordinary user.

However, I have to agree with Malphas: It's not right for Forum Staff to go STFU'ing opininons they don't like.

Of course forums need to be protected against trolls and spammers, but
a more easy-handed approach than "we delete whatever we see fit" and
if you don't like it then STFU is needed, I'm afraid.

[frodon]

i'd like to say thanks to arnie for sharing his work, glad to know that automatix is under GPL now.

I think mod's here try to do their best to keep this forum in the right way. Even if sometimes some users disagree with their politic, we have to respect the time they spent in the forum like we have also to respect the time that arnie put in automatix.

However, i also appreciate that users like azz gives other point of views because it's always interesting to get different opinions and to understand why they think different.

So i don't think there's problems with the politic of the forum as long as we will be able to talk freely about it in the respect of the accomplished work.

All my appologizes if i hurt someone with my post.

[majikstreet]

thanks arnieboy :)


I have to agree with macgyver2. My post in this thread was deleted for pointing out that kassetra's above statement was a personal attack, and I was sent a rather snide PM basically telling me to shut up. I don't necessarily agree with azz's opinion, but I still think he should have the right to voice it.

I really think the forum staff's behavior in this thread alone is disgraceful, and far worse than anything azz seems to have said.

In my opinion this is appalling and uncalled for, and reflects badly on the forum and on Ubuntu itself.

honestly, I really agree with you.

Guys, just stop attacking each other. It's not right. As many other forums have put it, keep all personal attacks in PM.

Conor

[az]

It seems to me that there is only a small group of people who are unhappy with the way the forums are run.

That's not true. The fact is most people who get edited or deleted leave the forums and the ubuntu community. They do not know that what happened is wrong.

I also get PMs from users about this.

As well, when the matter was brought to the CC, the Community Council expressed that they are not in favor if this sort of thing. "The only think to hide are the nuclear launch codes" (Sabdfl - Mark Shuttleworth)





I for one find it one of the best forums I've been associate with.

Yup. We have great users and are part of a great community.

[majikstreet]

That's not true. The fact is most people who get edited or deleted leave the forums and the ubuntu community. They do not know that what happened is wrong.

I also get PMs from users about this.

As well, when the matter was brought to the CC, the Community Council expressed that they are not in favor if this sort of thing. "The only think to hide are the nuclear launch codes" (Sabdfl - Mark Shuttleworth)




Yup. We have great users and are part of a great community.
We do have a great community here. But, over the past few months, we've had a lot of controversy, and other stuff going on. I guess this is just the way forums are, but I wish it would stop. Ubuntu is a wonderful disto, and these forums are the best of the best. Without a good place for support like these forums, where else will users go? Sure, they have LinuxQuestions.org's forum, but that's not UbuntuForums.org.

Conor

[manicka]

Guys, just stop attacking each other. It's not right. As many other forums have put it, keep all personal attacks in PM.


I only see one name popping up consistently that attracts this sort of attention.
It would be nice if that person could let things go, or indeed direct criticism through the channels suggested.

[majikstreet]

I only see one name popping up consistently that attracts this sort of attention.
It would be nice if that person could let things go, or indeed direct criticism through the channels suggested.
I didn't mean to direct that to any one person, just everyone in general. It's been multiple people in this thread, too.

(Off topic: I hope I don't miss too much while I'm at school today... People are posting every 2 seconds in this thread.)

[Pablo_Escobar]

Why can't we just get along ??

PEACE, RESPECT, AND HUMANITY TO ALL :)

[majikstreet]

Why can't we just get along ??

PEACE, RESPECT, AND HUMANITY TO ALL :)
That is what would be best. I totally agree.

That can be done!

[nocturn]

But at least you are honest here, kassetra. "...according to the forum guidelines, as we see fit." As you see fit, indeed, which appears to mean--from reading the forums--that you hold some people (staff members, people you agree with/like) to lighter/different standards than others.


As we see fit means that we have to interpret the Forum Guidelines. If you post a link to Playboy, it is pretty clear, but not all situations are that easy.

Some threads are on the very edge of what is allowed by the guidelines, so we have to use judgement to justify our actions.

[nocturn]

As well, when the matter was brought to the CC, the Community Council expressed that they are not in favor if this sort of thing. "The only think to hide are the nuclear launch codes" (Sabdfl - Mark Shuttleworth)


If you follow this to it's logical end, there would be no point in moderating at all. We can leave spam, personal attacks and links to shopping or porn sites up as freedom of speech.

[Pablo_Escobar]

Man, You all are hard headed :)

Bear in mind that ones choice can be not ver well seen by the other.
We're all different, no-one can deny it, we have different oppinions on a lot of things.
And here comes a little thing called respect for others and a little function called using Your brain not letting go with emotions.

PLEASE CALM DOWN AND RESPECT EACH OTHERS VIEW.

[majikstreet]

Man, You all are hard headed :)

Bear in mind that ones choice can be not ver well seen by the other.
We're all different, no-one can deny it, we have different oppinions on a lot of things.
And here comes a little thing called respect for others and a little function called using Your brain not letting go with emotions.

PLEASE CALM DOWN AND RESPECT EACH OTHERS VIEW.
R.E.S.P.E.C.T! FIND OUT WHAT IT MEANS TO ME!

[ow50]

I was never interested in Automatix before, but the licensing theater made it worth keeping an eye on. I'm glad to see the Automatix license go, as it was non-free, very poorly written and bad in general. I was wondering why there were no threads discussing the bizarre licensing, but apparently they were all deleted. At least one that I noticed, a thread started by keyes, seems to have vanished.


It seems to me that there is only a small group of people who are unhappy with the way the forums are run.
You can count me into that small bunch.

To the couple last posts: This is not just about getting along, there are actual issues to discuss here. This about freedom (both software and speech) and transparency of moderating.

[Pablo_Escobar]

To the couple last posts: This is not just about getting along, there are actual issues to discuss here. This about freedom (both software and speech) and transparency of moderating.

You think You can do a better job than current mods ?
I seriously doubt it, because there always will be someone who'd feel offended by Your way of modding. There is no easy solution for it.
Posts are not getting deleted without a reason. Maybe it'd be a good idea to keep them locked if they're not so offensive for let's say 2 hours with an information why this thread was locked, and then deleted. Just a suggestion :)

[frodon]

To the couple last posts: This is not just about getting along, there are actual issues to discuss here. This about freedom (both software and speech) and transparency of moderating.

There'are more and more ubuntu forum users day after day and i think this kind of issues is normal, why do you think there are wars in the world ... for the same reasons ... we only need more respect and tolerance here even if we disagree (i'm not talking about me).

[raublekick]

You think You can do a better job than current mods ?
I seriously doubt it, because there always will be someone who'd feel offended by Your way of modding. There is no easy solution for it.
Posts are not getting deleted without a reason. Maybe it'd be a good idea to keep them locked if they're not so offensive for let's say 2 hours with an information why this thread was locked, and then deleted. Just a suggestion :)

The best form of moderation is the least form of moderation. If something is questionable (and you mods have admitted that sometimes things drift on the rules) it should be left alone. We have a report-a-post feature, and this should be the main method that moderators use to judge posts. If users don't complain, then there shouldn't be a problem.

It was a real shame that honest-to-john posts had to be deleted because Arnieboy held Automatix captive over some questionable criticizms (which I for one appreciated, because no software should be outside the eye of scruitiny).

I truly appreciate the work put into Automatix, I just don't appreciate the drama surrounding it. The fact that this thread has derailed so greatly is testament to the existance of some sort of issues at hand.

[nocturn]

The best form of moderation is the least form of moderation. If something is questionable (and you mods have admitted that sometimes things drift on the rules) it should be left alone. We have a report-a-post feature, and this should be the main method that moderators use to judge posts. If users don't complain, then there shouldn't be a problem.


I disagree with this. We are trying to keep the forum open to everyone, if someone makes a post that is offensive to a group of users, it should be removed before new user leave thinking that this is an unfriendly place to visit.

But, unless we go into 1000+ lines of legalese, there is still some room for human interpretation to the guidelines.

[ow50]

Posts are not getting deleted without a reason.
Take for example the only thread-vanishing I noticed, the thread where keyes (author of Easy Ubuntu) was asking about whether the Automatix license was legal or not if parts of Automatix were taken from GPL-licensed Easy Ubuntu. Whether correct or not, there was no personal insults, no profanity and absolutely nothing against the guidelines (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/faq.php). keyes was only publicly questioning the Automatix license, which appears was uncomfortable for arnieboy and the Ubuntu Forums staff.

It's going too far when discussions about unwanted topics are deleted. I'd understand deleting only in the case of extreme profanity. Locking on the other hand is transparent. The thread remains in existence and acts as proof of the moderating style chosen by the staff. Deleting in its current form is censorship.

[arnieboy]

Take for example the only thread-vanishing I noticed, the thread where keyes (author of Easy Ubuntu) was asking about whether the Automatix license was legal or not if parts of Automatix were taken from GPL-licensed Easy Ubuntu. Whether correct or not, there was no personal insults, no profanity and absolutely nothing against the guidelines (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/faq.php). keyes was only publicly questioning the Automatix license, which appears was uncomfortable for arnieboy and the Ubuntu Forums staff.
It was NOT a question. It was a hostile accusation.. therez a difference between criticizing someone and slinging mud on his face.

[az]

[QUOTE=nocturn]I disagree with this. We are trying to keep the forum open to everyone, if someone makes a post that is offensive to a group of users, it should be removed before new user leave thinking that this is an unfriendly place to visit.

[QUOTE]

You can do things without deleting. Here is how I used to do it:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=352786&postcount=17
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=352786

Unfortunately, that thread got locked, too.

Forty percent of the moderation staff got fired or left in the weeks following that...

[macgyver2]

As we see fit means that we have to interpret the Forum Guidelines. If you post a link to Playboy, it is pretty clear, but not all situations are that easy.

Some threads are on the very edge of what is allowed by the guidelines, so we have to use judgement to justify our actions.


If you follow this to it's logical end, there would be no point in moderating at all. We can leave spam, personal attacks and links to shopping or porn sites up as freedom of speech.

If I may address these statements...

First, I am against deleting anything. What is said in a public forum should remain public. Furthermore, if someone is offended by a particular poster, the offended one can ignore the offender...and I mean that literally: the offended person can place the offensive person on her or his Ignore List.

That being said, it seems pretty clear that the forum staff will continue to use censorship regardless of what anyone says. So, ignoring the fact that I disagree with censorship at all, I still see a big problem in that the forum staff members wield the power of censorship haphazardly and inconsistently. Are you honestly telling me that none of the forum staff made any personal attacks against azz in this thread? Why is it that forum staff--who should know better than others not to post things like that and who should lead by example--don't have to follow the same rules as the rest of the users? It's blatant "do as I say, not as I do". And this thread is not the first time this has happened.

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

All I know is that I got a new Signature Quote from this thread... \|/ :razz:

[Malphas]

That being said, it seems pretty clear that the forum staff will continue to use censorship regardless of what anyone says. So, ignoring the fact that I disagree with censorship at all, I still see a big problem in that the forum staff members wield the power of censorship haphazardly and inconsistently. Are you honestly telling me that none of the forum staff made any personal attacks against azz in this thread? Why is it that forum staff--who should know better than others not to post things like that and who should lead by example--don't have to follow the same rules as the rest of the users? It's blatant "do as I say, not as I do". And this thread is not the first time this has happened.
Exactly. It seems like there are two sets of rules here, one for the moderators and those that agree with them and one for regular users who happen to disagree. A good example of this woule be how the following posts remained untouched...


And you make yourself look like an arrogant ass...

SHUT THE **** UP.

Hypicritcal azzholes, gosh...

... whilst my post (and I don't want it to seem like I'm bringing this up again for the sake of it or because I'm sore about it, I'm just using it as an example as it's the only post that I can say for certain was censored) which was simply pointing out the fact that kassetra was engaging in a personal attack was deleted and I was sent a PM, stating:


If you have nothing to contribute to the topic at hand, other than to pick through and choose my response to the previous two personal attacks, perhaps saying nothing at all would suffice.
You can't then claim that posts are deleted for good reason or fairly when there's such obvious bias and hypocrisy at work. Not to mention that the forum staff are flagrantly violating the very guidelines they're simultaneously accusing others of infringing.

[lerrup]

It was NOT a question. It was a hostile accusation.. therez a difference between criticizing someone and slinging mud on his face.

And how am I meant to judge this when it was deleted?

Criticism is an irregular verb after all: I discuss, you criticise, he slanders.

There clearly was an issue that was legitimate to discuss. I have no comment on the way it was discussed as I did not have the opportunity to read it.

I would agree that calming down and treating each other with respect would be good. I would also throw in a bit of distance, thicker skins and humour into the mix, but then you can’t have everything.

There is clearly a problem here and one that needs to be addressed (again) so that matters can proceed smoothly. There is also a power imbalance here and so there needs to be restraint by moderators about how they use their powers as well as by users in their comments about others.

[arnieboy]

And how am I meant to judge this when it was deleted?

Criticism is an irregular verb after all: I discuss, you criticise, he slanders.

There clearly was an issue that was legitimate to discuss. I have no comment on the way it was discussed as I did not have the opportunity to read it.

I would agree that calming down and treating each other with respect would be good. I would also throw in a bit of distance, thicker skins and humour into the mix, but then you can’t have everything.

There is clearly a problem here and one that needs to be addressed (again) so that matters can proceed smoothly. There is also a power imbalance here and so there needs to be restraint by moderators about how they use their powers as well as by users in their comments about others.
The point is:
U discuss: I listen.
U criticize: I mull over it.
U slander: I delete ur post and warn u:
U play monkey again: I ban u.
Dont like this?: go to some unmoderated forum and vent your feelings there. we dont care.

This is not a soap opera! Its the official technical forum of the world's leading linux distro.
U cant respect that fact and want to make it look ugly? We will make sure u dont succeed!

[frodon]

You can't then claim that posts are deleted for good reason or fairly when there's such obvious bias and hypocrisy at work. Not to mention that the forum staff are flagrantly violating the very guidelines they're simultaneously accusing others of infringing.

Ok, but this kind of post never help to find a solution, even if what you say is true or not.
Why not create a new thread, because everyone here seems to be concerned, in which everyone put in their ideas on how to improve the forum politic in order that users don't feel attacked.

If everyone here thinks that is a problem then maybe it's time to find a solution, don't you think ?

[raublekick]

I will attest that the deleted topic in question was not slanderous, hostile, or even an accusation. It was merely pointing out a flaw in your project and even had a solution to go with it. I think I was the only person who got a chance to respond in that thread before it got deleted.

The problem now is obvious: by deleting the thread, users are forced into taking your word over mine. Sure, I can make claims, but the proof isn't there. And since the critique of your project is no longer existant, people have no reason to question it and can accept it as gospel.

By deleting posts like that you put yourself into an advantage over a normal user. This is why moderation is best left at a minimum. Not everyone can get rid of stuff they don't like, but they can report it and hope that the mods are fair in judging.

[Malphas]

Ok, but this kind of post never help to find a solution, even if what you say is true or not.
Why not create a new thread, because everyone here seems to be concerned, in which everyone put in their ideas on how to improve the forum politic in order that users don't feel attacked.

If everyone here thinks that is a problem then maybe it's time to find a solution, don't you think ?
Fair enough, although it still seemed like there was an opinion held by some that there was no problem and that the forum staff involved were correct in their judgement. I'm only using the example of this thread to help illustrate the problem in general, not to air a personal grievance.

[ubuntu-geek]

This thread seems to have used up its usefullness.. I'll be watching it and if need be i'll lock it.

[lerrup]

The point is:
U discuss: I listen.
U criticize: I mull over it.
U slander: I delete ur post and warn u:
U play monkey again: I ban u.
Dont like this?: go to some unmoderated forum and vent your feelings there. we dont care.

This is not a soap opera! Its the official technical forum of the world's leading linux distro.
U cant respect that fact and want to make it look ugly? We will make sure u dont succeed!

Can you not shout as I find it unnecessarily aggressive when we are, after all meant to be discussing things in something approaching a civilised manner.

I also hope the U (sic) in your post is not referring to me. In the future, if it isn’t referring to the person you are quoting could find a different way of phrasing it so as not to appear to be attacking them?

You also seem to be missing my point. That is, perception of the meaning of a phrase depends on the receiver of that message and it is not a fixed given. If you can give a handy rubric for a definition of the distance between criticisim, slander and playing monkey (?) then you're doing well and there are a number of legal jurisdictions that would like to hear from you.

[frodon]

Fair enough, although it still seemed like there was an opinion held by some that there was no problem and that the forum staff involved were correct in their judgement. I'm only using the example of this thread to help illustrate the problem in general, not to air a personal grievance.
Well, i said that because the discution is going far from the original topic but it seems needed to have a calm discution about politic.
So maybe one of the mod could create a thread to talk about it (if the discution is opened, i hope so), it might be a good idea that a mod start this thread.

I hope the question will be solved because i like (like all of you i think) this forum and i'd like the forum to stay what it is ... an ubuntu community.

Regards

Guillaume

[bjweeks]

All I have to say is wow, in this thread alot of people lost my respect and many of them are "Forum Staff".

"And you make yourself look like an arrogant ass..."

"no, azz, zealots like yourself make LINUX LOOK BAD. And if you didn't try to push your own views onto everyone else within sight with your poison keyboard, maybe we wouldn't have the urge to close/remove your posts."

And as for those here trying divert this thread to their own crusades I am going to say something I never thought I would say here .

SHUT THE **** UP."

Come on this is ******** "Forum Staff" personally attacking a member.

If the forum is to remain the "Offical Ubuntu Forum" I think some need to be delt with.

I am now a member of "small group of people who are unhappy with the way the forums are run" and if the forums are brought up in the CC again I will surport the people trying to bring change.

[ubuntu-geek]

Goes to show.. this thread is done..