DRM, Censorship, and the end of the internet..

[unknown03]

I had converted one of my cousins to Ubuntu and gave him sources to check out the philosophies behind, not only Ubuntu, but Open Source in general. After doing some research, he provided me with some videos on about "Internet 2" and that got me thinking.

It got me thinking enough to share it with everyone who might not have been educated otherwise and how it could effect not only computer users, and the open source movement, but also our lives from possible civil unrest in the future. Some other recent posts about DRM in Apple and the "hacking" of iTunes to work on linux brings alot of things out from "rumor" to "open."

It also has me thinking, are the mods of this philosophically free community going to censor this post?

I'm not trying cause a beef with anybody, especially the mods. I am just concerned because I see all over the net people being banned from talking about "sensitive" information, such as: the right to speak about, or merely mentioning, an act of "piracy", the infringement of "intellectual" property, or any other topic that you essentially wave by the agreement to register for said forum. Even employees at Fry's or Gamestop will be fired for breathing the words "Modding an Xbox" to install an operating system.

Anyways, I think these are some informative videos that everyone should atleast watch, regardless of your standpoint. Here are the links:

Facebook(Myspace), Trusted Computing, and Google:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aezC3nhNI0

The Death of the Internet 1 of 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCcDV_ohoCQ

The Death of the Internet 2 of 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qumrw-y1fzo

The Death of the Internet 3 of 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnnFm_vJ8A0

The Death of the Internet 4 of 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj3GWJasFoE

[I-75]

I have done some research into the end of the internet. My philosophy is that it could happen. But If it did happen I won't have any part with internet 2 or internet censorship as far as what I am sites I am or not allowed to visit.

If it got to that point, why even bother with the internet? I am old enough to remember a world without internet, cell phones, CDs, DVDs, VCR or even cable or satellite TV. I grew up without the internet and computers and I can go without it again if need be. But not one penny of my hard earned money would go for the internet that some are proposing.


As far as mods censoring things, thats their right. If you disagree, then start your own forum and site. We may not agree always what mods do (on any forum), but that is a condition for posting. As such I highly encourage people to start their own forums for their own pursuits.

This site (The Ubuntu forums) is outstanding for the support structure ...bar none. Not everything is appropriate for this site...and I understand that...and there is a trade off as such...but that trade off is well worth it for the support and info that one gets from this site.

[handy]

The national internet censorship that the the Oz government is trying to implement is the way of getting control of the internet in my country.

My ISP Internode, is the most highly regarded by users here, & they have been the most vocal in opposition to this government censorship of the internet.

I have written to both my State & Federal government representatives & also to the Federal Minister who is the man responsible (or at least the front man) for this scheme in an effort to voice my opposition.

If the corpy's destroy the internet, I will not take part in their new right wing closed version.

[SunnyRabbiera]

but you know the internet is going to be VERY tough to control like the way these @$%^ want, I think we must take a stand and protect one of the last outposts of freedom.

[handy]

but you know the internet is going to be VERY tough to control like the way these @$%^ want, I think we must take a stand and protect one of the last outposts of freedom.

+ 9 trillion.

I will use whatever set of underground servers is takes if it comes down to it.

I am VERY interested in methods of net invisibility.

[macogw]

What does Internet 2 have to do with the end of the internet? Just because a bunch of universities have a really nice fiber connection between them doesn't mean the rest of us are getting rid of our internet...

[handy]

What does Internet 2 have to do with the end of the internet? Just because a bunch of universities have a really nice fiber connection between them doesn't mean the rest of us are getting rid of our internet...

Apparently the intention is to replace the internet we know with a very much limited version that has more costs involved.

[Edit:] I posted links as promised on this subject in post_17.

[billgoldberg]

Apparently the intention is to replace the internet we know with a very much limited version that has more costs involved.

I will post links documenting this later ok.

I don't see that happening.

[Sealbhach]

If you had never seen the internet before and looked at then idiot comments on You Tube, I think you would be in favour of shutting the whole thing down.

I don't think you can actually kill the internet though?



.

[Comzee]

I could see this go either way. The good thing about the internet is the infrastructure is not owned by one company or group, so it would be vary hard to regulate it to an extent. China is a great example of how internet can get highly controlled, though. A simple solution to internet 2 might even be switching to another ISP that supports net neutrality.

[handy]

I don't see that happening.

Obviously, because I haven't gone & got them yet! :lolflag:

[handy]

I could see this go either way. The good thing about the internet is the infrastructure is not owned by one company or group, so it would be vary hard to regulate it to an extent. China is a great example of how internet can get highly controlled, though. A simple solution to internet 2 might even be switching to another ISP that supports net neutrality.

I think it comes down to who controls the backbone & the major nodes.

[Glenn Jones]

Hi Guys

I've been worried about Google collecting info on my searches for a while now but what are the alternatives? Is Yahoo etc any better?

Cheers

[Comzee]

I think it comes down to who controls the backbone & the major nodes.

Right, but internationally there would have to be huge agreements to switch over to internet 2. I can see certain countries making commercialized internet, but globally I don't ever see a complete dissemination of the internet. ISP's can block your your access to only the internet 2 network, but if that happens I see new IPS's popping up that support net neutrality.

P.S. The infrastructure is there, new topology can always be created for the backbone.

[Comzee]

Hi Guys

I've been worried about Google collecting info on my searches for a while now but what are the alternatives? Is Yahoo etc any better?

Cheers

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=994754

http://www.scroogle.org/

http://search.wikia.com/about/crawl.html.

[handy]

Hi Guys

I've been worried about Google collecting info on my searches for a while now but what are the alternatives? Is Yahoo etc any better?

Cheers

Use Scroogle:

http://www.scroogle.org/

&

http://search.wikia.com/

[handy]

Here are some links as promised in post_7 of this thread:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/28/internet_end_nigh/

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060213/chester

http://www.commoncause.org/site/pp.asp?c=dkLNK1MQIwG&b=1386967

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2006/030106aol.htm

[unknown03]

Right, but internationally there would have to be huge agreements to switch over to internet 2. I can see certain countries making commercialized internet, but globally I don't ever see a complete dissemination of the internet. ISP's can block your your access to only the internet 2 network, but if that happens I see new IPS's popping up that support net neutrality.

P.S. The infrastructure is there, new topology can always be created for the backbone.

What if the ISP's that support net neutrality are bought up by Comcast, AT&T, etc? It would take a company iron bawls to turn down $2 Million (or more) to switch to internet 2

[Toadmund]

So can the common man replace the internet too (or 2 ;) )?

What about that ISP free connection thing that connects wirelessly to other computers in the network.
What was that called? There was a post about it here or on another site.

Some businesses use it as a closed network.

I'll see if I can find it.

[mips]

This is really easy to implement. There are 8 Tier 1 ISP's in the world and if they do it the rest are kinda screwed and will have to follow or stop being Tier 2 ISP's.

[jomiolto]

Don't forget that there are governments above the ISPs, and there has been some rather alarming development from that front too -- see this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement) for example. I really wish that these people can be stopped before they destroy everything that is good about the good ol' Internet.

[zmjjmz]

So can the common man replace the internet too (or 2 ;) )?

What about that ISP free connection thing that connects wirelessly to other computers in the network.
What was that called? There was a post about it here or on another site.

Some businesses use it as a closed network.

I'll see if I can find it.

Do you mean whitespace broadband?
Well yes, that's been approved by the FCC, but you would still need someone to set up and maintain the towers. They might just be as bad as the cellular providers.

[Newuser1111]

the end of the internet..
What about SubDomains?

[handy]

So can the common man replace the internet too (or 2 ;) )?

What about that ISP free connection thing that connects wirelessly to other computers in the network.
What was that called? There was a post about it here or on another site.

Some businesses use it as a closed network.

I'll see if I can find it.

I would think only to a very limited degree, due to the huge expense involved in setting up the backbone. People in high population areas would be able to get a wireless thing going, but once you have to cover large distances the price sky rockets.

I think many businesses use a closed network, they are more secure & controllable.

[sydbat]

Two words - Para Noia (OK, it's really one word that I broke up, but what the hell). Just because the US does something (or wants to do something) usually has little or no effect on the other 6 billion of us on the planet.

From everything I have read concerning "Internet2", it is simply a new technology infrastructure. Sure we may have to pay a bit more to access that infrastructure, but online speed would no longer be an issue. Imagine downloading the next Ubuntu (or any other Linux distro or piece of free software) in 1 minute or less...WOW.

"It furnishes a 100Gb/s network backbone" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet2

[handy]

@sydbat: Don't stop reading, just because you like what you have read so far?

[collinp]

Two words - Para Noia (OK, it's really one word that I broke up, but what the hell). Just because the US does something (or wants to do something) usually has little or no effect on the other 6 billion of us on the planet.

You would be suprised at how wrong you are at that The US is massive. What it does can send shockwaves through the world's economy, etc.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

So can the common man replace the internet too (or 2 ;) )?

What about that ISP free connection thing that connects wirelessly to other computers in the network.
What was that called? There was a post about it here or on another site.

Some businesses use it as a closed network.

I'll see if I can find it.

I think you are referring to a peer to peer wireless network. It could work in the city were I live with a population of over 2 million. I can see 3 or 4 networks at any time of day. However, in less populated areas it wouldn't work. Even where I live, it would be impossible to get everyone to set up their routers and/or network cards to support such a network. Most people use whatever is spoon fed to them. How many computer users would even know how to set it up, or care to for that matter.

[mips]

Two words - Para Noia (OK, it's really one word that I broke up, but what the hell). Just because the US does something (or wants to do something) usually has little or no effect on the other 6 billion of us on the planet.


7 of the 8 Tier 1 ISP's are located in the USA, everyone else hangs off them...

[mihai.ile]

7 of the 8 Tier 1 ISP's are located in the USA, everyone else hangs off them...

Well that 1 tier would be more than enough for the rest of the world. If someone begins to talk to the remaining tier it becomes a level 1 or 2 tier so new tiers could be created in no time around the world. With some confusion at the beginning but in the end it will all settle down. =)
And for the websites that have servers in US will have to think again whether is economically acceptable to be restricted to US customers only and ignore the rest of the world...

Now this is waht I would call a... Net split :D

[MysticEdge]

Now this is waht I would call a... Net split :D

*chuckles* I've been waiting for someone to make that joke.

Anyways, in my humble opinion, while this is a possible outcome(Internet2) Conspiracies, nightmares, horror stories, worst-case scenarios--They've existed throughout time. There is always something worse on the horizon, in the closet as it were, but there's always something better as well. This diametrical opposition will always exist, it's a replication of our basic genetic structure, and it's how all life stays in balance.

But enough philosophical jargon.

My point is, right now a realist(pessimist in denial, I say) would deem those of us who support Open-Source and other such concepts as Idealistic. We are, quite basically, opposing the Microsoft mindset. We are passive enemies of proprietary software, if the conflict escalates, and we become active enemies. If we, idealists, become rebels. So be it. Simply put, there will always be alternatives, always be resistance, no matter how sinister the enemy.

How far are we going to take this?

"The question isn't how far, the question is do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed?"


I say all this to communicate the point that paranoia about such things is unnecessary.

[handy]

If corporations/governments bring in a pay per use expensive, restricted access internet2 & allow internet1 to degenerate through lack of maintenance, the little people are going to have a tough time, some people may loose internet service altogether, others have a reduced service, it is very hard to foresee the actual state of the internet in 10 years time. ;-)

All we know for sure is that it will be different & that there are very powerful concerns working to make it the way they want it to be for their own benefit/profit.

[mips]

Well that 1 tier would be more than enough for the rest of the world. If someone begins to talk to the remaining tier it becomes a level 1 or 2 tier so new tiers could be created in no time around the world. With some confusion at the beginning but in the end it will all settle down. =)


That Tier 1 is located in Japan and probably has US shareholders. Besides that, do you have any idea how much it would cost in infrastructure allone to setup a Tier 1 network? Even if you have the infrastructure there is no gaurentee that you will be allowed to peer with other Tier 1's if you don't follow the same 'ideals' they have.

Besides being a $$$ thing it is also a highly political thing.

[handy]

Besides being a $$$ thing it is also a highly political thing.

Unfortunately those two turn into the same thing, big money interests control politics every chance they get.

We are perpetually faced with the battle between personal freedom & the power of greed.

[Toadmund]

I think you are referring to a peer to peer wireless network. It could work in the city were I live with a population of over 2 million. I can see 3 or 4 networks at any time of day. However, in less populated areas it wouldn't work. Even where I live, it would be impossible to get everyone to set up their routers and/or network cards to support such a network. Most people use whatever is spoon fed to them. How many computer users would even know how to set it up, or care to for that matter.
Yes it is p2p related, and I found the info I was looking for, it was posted on another forum that I belong to.

It is called 'POPEYE'
Here is the link to the other forum that I habituate:
POPEYE THREAD (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread409539/pg1)

[Dr Small]

It has probably already been mentioned, but Internet 2 already exists. It is called packet radio, that ham's use to send files around via radio waves, and a modem to convert the binary files to text for the computer to interpret.

[handy]

It has probably already been mentioned, but Internet 2 already exists. It is called packet radio, that ham's use to send files around via radio waves, and a modem to convert the binary files to text for the computer to interpret.

Lets hope that we don't end up having to do that to escape the corporate control of the internet.

[Mason Whitaker]

It is my opinion, that this whole thing is not just about the internet, its about how people are trying to control how we communicate. I believe that communication is a fundamental right that we have have, so to place any censorship on the internet would be an infringment on a person's right to knowledge. Do not think of this as someone trying to censor the internet, think of this as someone trying to control and silence those whom they find fault.

There's my two cents

[Dr Small]

It is my opinion, that this whole thing is not just about the internet, its about how people are trying to control how we communicate. I believe that communication is a fundamental right that we have have, so to place any censorship on the internet would be an infringment on a person's right to knowledge. Do not think of this as someone trying to censor the internet, think of this as someone trying to control and silence those whom they find fault.

There's my two cents

I agree.


Lets hope that we don't end up having to do that to escape the corporate control of the internet.

I hope it isn't necessary also, but if necessary, there is a plan B. Once I get my Ham radio license, I plan to try out packet radio. Of course, I have to buy all the equipment to get it to work, too.

The problem with ham radio (in the U.S.) is that it is regulated by the FCC, which they do impose restrictions such as encryption on messages (since radio waves are international).