Vertical Farming a good thing!

[MasterNetra]

The fact we haven't started using vertical farms is ridiculous! But instead of trying to go through the reasons myself I implore you to look through the vertical farms (http://www.verticalfarm.com/) website. It probably does better job then i can do. =P The start page goes through some basic advanges, just scroll down to find them. (Not hard to spot.)

Note: I'm trying to sell the idea of vertical farming not necessarily their plans.

[Tomatz]

Oh yeah.... How did we ever get by before? #-o


Thanks you have brightned my day....

[mister_pink]

Some people say they would be vulnerable in a strong wind. But for heavens sake, who's to say there's going to be a strong wind?

[MasterNetra]

Some people say they would be vulnerable in a strong wind. But for heavens sake, who's to say there's going to be a strong wind?

Aye and the strong wind thing doesn't stop the building of skyscrapers in general now does it?

[MasterNetra]

Also a additional benefit..

Sense the crops are grown indoors the temperatures can be control, and artificial lighting can be used. Which means should something happen to..oh say, block out the sun (super volcanoes going off, meteors, etc) the vertical farms wouldn't be phased by the lack of sun, unlike traditional farms.

[kevin11951]

Also a additional benefit..

Sense the crops are grown indoors the temperatures can be control, and artificial lighting can be used. Which means should something happen to..oh say, block out the sun (super volcanoes going off, meteors, etc) the vertical farms wouldn't be phased by the lack of sun, unlike traditional farms.

Yes! Let's all plan towards the end of the world!

:(

[MasterNetra]

Yes! Let's all plan towards the end of the world!

:(

The point is to be ready just in case. But vertical farming is ideal even in normal conditions.

[smoker]

think of all the skyscraper farms we could build if we cleared all the forests, man, i can hardly wait to go for a walk in the countryside then!

[Aiello]

Yes! Let's all plan towards the end of the world!

:(

Well, it is going to happen one day. Better safe than sorry.

[MasterNetra]

think of all the skyscraper farms we could build if we cleared all the forests, man, i can hardly wait to go for a walk in the countryside then!

They can be placed within cities too...They are buildings after all. O.o

[ssam]

energy costs would be pretty huge. the sun provides ~1KW per sq meter. you need to provide that on each floor. i can't see how that is likely to be cost effective for growing crops (unless we get fusion sorted).

[MasterNetra]

energy costs would be pretty huge. the sun provides ~1KW per sq meter. you need to provide that on each floor. i can't see how that is likely to be cost effective for growing crops (unless we get fusion sorted).

Try actually reading the site eh? They mention a way that addresses that issue..and if built right anyway, its not going to be that draining good grieve.

[pgatrick]

think of all the skyscraper farms we could build if we cleared all the forests, man, i can hardly wait to go for a walk in the countryside then!

I'm pretty sure one of the basic ideas of vertical farming is it uses less land. Build up rather than out, so no need to clear forested land. ;)

[MasterNetra]

I'm pretty sure one of the basic ideas of vertical farming is it uses less land. Build up rather than out, so no need to clear forested land. ;)

Yeap :)

[smoker]

I'm pretty sure one of the basic ideas of vertical farming is it uses less land. Build up rather than out, so no need to clear forested land. ;)

sorry, i was being sarcastic there ;-), but, imo, it is a ridiculous idea, and it would be far more economic to prepare and irrigate land at the moment unused for farming.

(still, i suppose the wheat for making 'self-raising flour' would grow better in a tower block:))

[MasterNetra]

sorry, i was being sarcastic there ;-), but, imo, it is a ridiculous idea, and it would be far more economic to prepare and irrigate land at the moment unused for farming.

(still, i suppose the wheat for making 'self-raising flour' would grow better in a tower block:))

Not nesscerly keep in mind while you have a season to grow with traditional farms. Vertical farms can keep growing continuously, easily at LEAST doubling profit per acre. (And thats if it was only 1 story) Also for consumers that means cheaper food year round and not just when stuff is in season.

[Paqman]

The fact we haven't started using vertical farms is ridiculous!

Surely the reason that we haven't is that the economics aren't right? You'd have to spend a lot of money constructing or refitting a building for this kind of use, and then you'd never be able to charge the rents that you could to a commercial tenant.

As long as the price of land in the countryside and operating costs of a traditional farm is much lower than the cost of building and running one of these vertical farms, it won't happen.

[MasterNetra]

Surely the reason that we haven't is that the economics aren't right? You'd have to spend a lot of money constructing or refitting a building for this kind of use, and then you'd never be able to charge the rents that you could to a commercial tenant.

As long as the price of land in the countryside and operating costs of a traditional farm is much lower than the cost of building and running one of these vertical farms, it won't happen.

But it will! If we ever wish to progress into space we MUST master indoor farming. We need only to employ the proper designing and employ the appropriate technologies to use for it. We can do it. And if we wish to progress we must do it...In fact we will need to sooner then later with population raising as it is.

Also with the increase of flooding and droughts the tradtional farming is becoming less and less reliable.

[Paqman]

And if we wish to progress we must do it...

Farming is a business. They're not really interested in advancing the human race, they're in it for money. If the economics aren't right, it won't happen.

I agree we need technologies like this for space exploration, though. Unfortunately previous experiments in intense indoor agriculture (eg: Biosphere 2) have only shown that we aren't very good at it yet. It's something we're going to have to put a lot of money and effort into if we're ever going to establish long-lasting outposts on the other planets.

[MasterNetra]

Farming is a business. They're not really interested in advancing the human race, they're in it for money. If the economics aren't right, it won't happen.

I agree we need technologies like this for space exploration, though. Unfortunately previous experiments in intense indoor agriculture (eg: Biosphere 2) have only shown that we aren't very good at it yet. It's something we're going to have to put a lot of money and effort into if we're ever going to establish long-lasting outposts on the other planets.

Is it not worth pursing regardless? I mean with all the droughts and flooding going on (which seems to be the norm these days) does it not make sense to switch to indoor farming? Where the crops are not vulnerable to the elements and pests.

[Paqman]

does it not make sense to switch to indoor farming?

Put yourself in the position of a large agribusiness. Would you switch to a method of farming that was less profitable than your competitors? No, because you'd go broke.

If it becomes economically viable, they'll probably do it. Until then you might see small-scale research farms, but you won't see widespread vertical farming.

Sorry to put that so bluntly, since this is clearly something you're passionate about. But got to be realistic about expecting to see a change this big within your lifetime. I find it quite reasonable to imagine that we might be doing this at some point in a few hundred years time, but I really can't see the conditions that would make it necessary or viable coming about any time soon.

[ericesque]

Instead of wasting time on vertical farming techniques, why don't we invest in something with a bit more longevity... food synthesizers!! (ala Trek)

[Tomatz]

Why don't we all have "hat farms"? If everyone grew a spud on their head, hunger would be a thing of the past (note sarcasm) :)


Vertical farms are completely unnecessary. A far better idea would be reclaiming infertile areas i.e. deserts. Also these are usually in close proximity to the poorest people. Building a hi-rise to grow food for people who already have MORE than enough, just seems pointless and plain GREEDY!

[toupeiro]

I don't like it, but here's the reality folks. Precious farmland is being sold and rezoned more and more every day. Over the last 8 years, Its been tremendous! I live in Central California, and for those of you who have ever been here, the 2 biggest industries here are Agriculture and oil. 4 years ago, I lived on the edge of town. Now there is a Costco, a Bank branch, a few supermarkets and fast food resturaunts, 2 sit-down resturaunts, and several housing communities all where a huge corn/cotton crop rotation used to be. If we keep putting supermarkets in all the places we used to grow the things we sold at supermarkets, there really isn't much alternative but to go vertical. Unfortunately, growing something isn't as simple as sticking a seed in the ground and tossing some water on it... You can't simply pick a spot in the middle of nowhere and expect to grow the same things you could here, and you cannot continue to plant the same crop every season or your soil will become barren. At least, not without something like an artificial farm that is vertical... There is a science to it. I'm not a farmer, or an expert in agriculture but I have friends and family that are, and when you grow up around it, you tend to learn a few things. I'll admit that these vertical farms seem unnatural, but I kind of saw this coming eventually.. Didn't think it'd be so soon though..

Of course, this introduces a much bigger issue that I don't think has been much talked about... Cross pollination??? Does that seem important to anybody else??? We are really messing with mother nature significantly by doing this.... Personally, I'd rather see more homes go vertical, and don't re-engineer something that works perfectly well so long as people don't get greedy about where to put their next McDonalds drive through...

[LMP900]

We are really messing with mother nature significantly by doing this....

We have been messing with mother nature since the beginning. Cattle, corn, and bananas are just a few examples that would look significantly different without human interference.

As Paqman stated, economic conditions will dictate farming techniques. If it's more profitable to build a store on a plot of land than it is to farm it, then a store will be built.

[toupeiro]

We have been messing with mother nature since the beginning. Cattle, corn, and bananas are just a few examples that would look significantly different without human interference.

As Paqman stated, economic conditions will dictate farming techniques. If it's more profitable to build a store on a plot of land than it is to farm it, then a store will be built.

Not to put too fine a point on this, but I think putting an end to pollination as we know it will have much more of a drastic impact than thousands of cow farts centralized in one location... Of course you're right about your economic statement, I wasn't challenging that, I was merely foreshadowing what might happen if we continue to put the ecoonomics of humans before the economics of nature... I'd rather not have to get to a point where we've lowered the global oxygen level more than 30% before we realized we dont need anymore damn wal-marts where orange orchards used to grow. ;-) For some reason, I struggle to believe oranges or bananas will flourish in Dakota badlands... A wal-mart might...

[bobbob94]

Wow, and I was getting depressed about how alienated from nature we are at the moment. Good to know it could get so much worse! ;) By coincidence I just came back from my allotment (small plot of land for growing veg on that you rent very very cheaply from the local government here) with a big bag of potatos and kale to read this...so no, I think more people should be growing more of their own food, not centralising food production even further in giant buildings. maybe the resources for vertical farms could go into providing free contraception so there isn't such a huge demand for food that we even consider things like this :)

[Thelasko]

From the posted website:

VF adds energy back to the grid via methane generation from composting non-edible parts of plants and animals
This is thermodynamically (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics#The_laws_of_thermodynamics) impossible. Though the windmills on top of the building in the picture may allow it to break even, the energy harvested from the plants will never exceed the energy provided for them to grow. This would essentially be the agricultural equivalent to a perpetual motion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion) machine.

The main advantage of this is that the food would not have to be transported to city centers.

[handy]

This is a good site to read about the realities of vertical farming:

http://www.verticalfarm.com/

"They" have developed a method for producing a crude oil replacement to burn as fuel by growing a certain type of algae in a vertical farming environment!

[toupeiro]

This is a good site to read about the realities of vertical farming:

http://www.verticalfarm.com/

"They" have developed a method for producing a crude oil replacement to burn as fuel by growing a certain type of algae in a vertical farming environment!

if "they" think they developed that method, "they" are a bit late to the party. And, it can be done without vertical farming... There is plenty of research material published on it.

[handy]

if "they" think they developed that method, "they" are a bit late to the party. And, it can be done without vertical farming... There is plenty of research material published on it.

They did develop the method of doing it vertically.

So, what are you exactly trying to say? :confused:

[toupeiro]

They did develop the method of doing it vertically.

So, what are you exactly trying to say? :confused:

Whether or not they do it vertically doesn't merit them credit for developing the method of using algae as a renewable energy resource alternative to Crude oil... Horizontally or vertically doesn't mean a whole different chemical breakdown. It doesn't change the algae type because its all of a sudden "vertically grown". Because I brewed brewed beer in the trunk of a car as opposed to a brewery, should I merit the credit of developing a new method of brewing beer? Did I not use barley? Did I not use Hops? Was there no fermentation? These are some of the developments required to produce beer. What I produce it in doesn't warrant me the right to say I developed it. Vertical farming is still farming. Energy production by breaking down algae is still energy production by breaking down algae. Vertical or horizontal is just a more expensive way of saying "paper or plastic" in that particular case IMO, with exception that .. you know.. you're basically preventing the whole process and chain reaction of pollination.

[daverich]

I think this could be a good thing,- I'd rather a building become a garden then get rammed full of chavs.

Kind regards

Dave Rich

[Tomatz]

I think this could be a good thing,- I'd rather a building become a garden then get rammed full of chavs.

Kind regards

Dave Rich

Chavs=RULE

;)

[Thelasko]

Whether or not they do it vertically doesn't merit them credit for developing the method of using algae as a renewable energy resource alternative to Crude oil... Horizontally or vertically doesn't mean a whole different chemical breakdown.
True, but I bet the USPTO would grant a patent for it.