Differences with Ubuntu

[offby1]

I don't want this to be an all-negative thing, but I'm afraid that there are certain things about Ubuntu Linux that I'd like to see discussed a bit. In the course of this, please try to remember that I have, in fact, moved two systems over to UL from XP and RHEL and am overall quite happy with the distribution itself.

One of the first serious attempts I made at running a Linux full time on my systems was Gentoo, about three years ago (two, maybe?) and it was, as expected, a lot of work and a phenomenal learning experience. I came away from it with a lot of confidence that even if I did not know how to accomplish something or solve a particular problem, I would be able to figure it out on my own, or when that failed, there were excellent user forums to look to. Gentoo Linux had, and may still have -- I don't use it anymore, so I don't know -- the best user community I have ever interacted with as far as dealing with newbie questions, and also as far as helping with obscure, weird configuration problems.

Ubuntu does not.

Understand, I am evangelizing this distribution. I got the CDs, and I show them off. My mother -- one of the least computer-literate people you will ever meet -- was convinced that this was an excellent idea, until this thread (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=7319) went completely unanswered, and I was thus unable to get her computer connected to the network, at the time. Since then, I've figured it out myself, but too late -- she had papers to write and things to do, and Windows went back on the machine. One convert down.

Several of my other questions relate to my own interest in switching away from windows on my main desktop. Since UL has managed to support my fricken LAPTOP out of the box (an impressive feat) I am impressed enough with the distribution that I have even considered using it as my primary OS. However, the total lack of response to my questions (some of them on my behalf, some of them for others that I am trying to convince to switch) has led me to question whether this is worth the effort.

Is there a community here that will try to answer the hard questions? I feel that I'm at a point in my understanding of Linux and Unix systems that I don't usually have to ask the easy ones, but that makes the community all the more important, because the hard ones are not the sort of thing you find simple answers for on Google.

I don't want this to come off as a whine about how "Nobody's helping meee1!!!1!!" and I'm afraid that it already has. However, I am (i feel) legitimately concerned about the lack of response on this sort of question. I hope that if any of the really knowledgeable readers of these forums see this, perhaps they will see fit to spend a little bit more of their spare time helping make this community an excellent one.

[Ste]

I don't want this to be an all-negative thing, but I'm afraid that there are certain things about Ubuntu Linux that I'd like to see discussed a bit. In the course of this, please try to remember that I have, in fact, moved two systems over to UL from XP and RHEL and am overall quite happy with the distribution itself.

One of the first serious attempts I made at running a Linux full time on my systems was Gentoo, about three years ago (two, maybe?) and it was, as expected, a lot of work and a phenomenal learning experience. I came away from it with a lot of confidence that even if I did not know how to accomplish something or solve a particular problem, I would be able to figure it out on my own, or when that failed, there were excellent user forums to look to. Gentoo Linux had, and may still have -- I don't use it anymore, so I don't know -- the best user community I have ever interacted with as far as dealing with newbie questions, and also as far as helping with obscure, weird configuration problems.

Ubuntu does not.

Understand, I am evangelizing this distribution. I got the CDs, and I show them off. My mother -- one of the least computer-literate people you will ever meet -- was convinced that this was an excellent idea, until this thread (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=7319) went completely unanswered, and I was thus unable to get her computer connected to the network, at the time. Since then, I've figured it out myself, but too late -- she had papers to write and things to do, and Windows went back on the machine. One convert down.

Several of my other questions relate to my own interest in switching away from windows on my main desktop. Since UL has managed to support my fricken LAPTOP out of the box (an impressive feat) I am impressed enough with the distribution that I have even considered using it as my primary OS. However, the total lack of response to my questions (some of them on my behalf, some of them for others that I am trying to convince to switch) has led me to question whether this is worth the effort.

Is there a community here that will try to answer the hard questions? I feel that I'm at a point in my understanding of Linux and Unix systems that I don't usually have to ask the easy ones, but that makes the community all the more important, because the hard ones are not the sort of thing you find simple answers for on Google.

I don't want this to come off as a whine about how "Nobody's helping meee1!!!1!!" and I'm afraid that it already has. However, I am (i feel) legitimately concerned about the lack of response on this sort of question. I hope that if any of the really knowledgeable readers of these forums see this, perhaps they will see fit to spend a little bit more of their spare time helping make this community an excellent one.
While I can somewhat understand where you're coming from, Ubuntu Linux does still have a little known userbase in comparison to Gentoo for example which has been around for years. Ubuntu is only knew and has come on leaps and bounds imo and from my standpoint.

A lot of stuff works out of the box as you are aware (and if not chances are there is a HOWTO.). And I feel there is a small community here, one that will grow with time. Not all users are here all the time to answer all the questions and sometime topics do get pushed off down a page or two and not get read. Or simply people might not know the answer.

Sometimes the only thing you can do is be patient and/or as you have done read and try resolve the problem yourself.


Ste.

[jakeslife]

Another thing you can do, since the Ubuntu forums is still in a stage of somewhat infancy (we are a smaller community compared to some others, but the comunity we have is strong indeed), is check the Debian forums or HOWTOs. Since Ubuntu is based on Debian, this can work with some things when you have issues.

This isn't a personal attack, but one thing I find is that many, many people don't search the forums before posting--this can, in a lot of cases, answer your questions without you posting a new thread. You didn't mention that you searched our forums here, so I thought I'd bring that up as well.

[Quest-Master]

I've had many threads go by without any replies and only a few views; I usually don't get the problem fixed because of that, and IRC is usually extremely busy so my question is knocked back and unnoticed.

I think with a little time the community will grow a bit more to where everyone's problems will be answered. :)

[Dylanby]

Don't forget about the mailing lists either. If it's hardware related (not Ubuntu specific) then, as was mentioned you can try the Debian lists too.

It can be frustrating (I know) when it seems your "cries for help" go unanswered. Believe me, if I had the solutions to the problems I read then I'd happily share them. I don't think there's anyone here who wouldn't.

[crane]

Yes Ubuntu has a few issues that some people may cross and have to fix. As said earlier, it is still a new distro with a small following (but growing fast)

One thing to keep in mind for all new users. Ubuntu is Linux. That being said the ubuntu forums and irc channels are not the only place to get questions answered and info.

I see a lot of posts with questions that are really easy to find an anser for if the poster would spend a couple minutes and search the how tos and forums.
Make sure the question hasn't been asked before.

You can also get answers at Linuxquestions.org (http://www.linuxquestions.org) and many other places. Google is a great place for answers and don't for get about google.com/linux (http://www.google.com/linux) .

Please note this post wasn't directed at you, but more so at the newer people who feel that they can't find answers.

[safecracker]

nothing is ever perfect, with any operating systems there will be prolems. That card should work with a wrapper (like ndiswraper) I havn't tested it with that card but you said you found the answer. If you found the answer why did you not post it in that thread? It seems against logic to complain about lack of support and then not post the info you have which might help others.

[spartas]

I can see where you are coming from, and although ubuntu is my first attempt at linux, I have learned a lot over the past months. Unlike you, there are still a few things that are still broken on my laptop, and it didn't work flawlessly out of the box, but as far as I can tell, the ubuntu community is growing, which is a good help for people with questions.

Not everyone has your computer configuration, so it would be difficult to answer your questions with a specific answer because of the hardware differences. Sure, I'll try, but you surely will not get the best answer unless you ask someone with mroe similar hardware. This is a dependency on the size of the community, not a flaw in the community itself.

I started with ubuntu in September, and through the months, I gradually got X working, then my wireless card and finally (somewhat) ALSA. What is still broken (partially) is the remains of ALSA + OSS, and CPU throttling. If not for the community, other people with my type of system (a dell 8200 laptop) that use(d) debian, and the ubuntu wiki, I would have given up altogether a few months ago. I have completely left my windows partition in the dust; I haven't booted into windows in over 2 months.

[offby1]

nothing is ever perfect, with any operating systems there will be prolems. That card should work with a wrapper (like ndiswraper) I havn't tested it with that card but you said you found the answer. If you found the answer why did you not post it in that thread? It seems against logic to complain about lack of support and then not post the info you have which might help others.
I didn't so much find the problem itself, but rather found my way through the labyrinth of Ubuntu's apt repository and got the kernel source code installed, and configured. As it happens (didn't know this) a Linux kernel module needs to have a *compiled* kernel to build against.

[safecracker]

I didn't so much find the problem itself, but rather found my way through the labyrinth of Ubuntu's apt repository and got the kernel source code installed, and configured. As it happens (didn't know this) a Linux kernel module needs to have a *compiled* kernel to build against.

ahh I see, so you had the answer and just didnt know the means to implement it at the time. That's understandable.

[#Greg]

Just thought I'd mention that you're not alone, I thought it was just me who couldn't get a hard question answered!

But as previously mentioned, it's a small community I guess, just got to give it time, this has got to be the friendliest community I've ever been apart of, meaning it's got a good 'base' to build-off. I think the Ubuntu community will only get bigger and better with time.

[jdodson]

people should follow a few steps before posting questions on the forum.

first step: do a google search.

seriously, this is where my problems end for the most part. i do a google search and i have a zillion answers to my questions. learning how to effectively search google is the smartest thing you can do. learn how to use it, it is your best friend.

second step: do a forum search

most of the problems you have experienced have been expierenced before. most people do not do step one, and hardly do step 2.

third step: post a question to the forums

if the first two steps fail, follow this step.

the problem you had with your mothers computer i had with my computer. i did a google search and came up with two solutions, one of them being ndiswrapper. the forums have many other threads to the "no wireless" question as well with ndiswrapper as the answer.

as to the "lacking ubuntu community." i will admit that sometimes questions go unanswered, sometimes it is because no one has a good answer, sometimes it is because only a few people see it. ubuntu is a growing community and as such is not privy to 45,000 users all willing to help out.

also, the month of december is a month of holiday for me as i take much vacation. my post count dropped off considerably in that time as i read few posts. i think some people might have been in that boat as well as your post was made around dec 15th or so. i think as people come back from vacation things will pick up.

it has also been said that we are not as "well astablished" as gentoo. from what i can tell the forums are a gentoo crown jewel, we are working toward that, we just have some work to do.

[wallijonn]

Is there a community here that will try to answer the hard questions?

That of course will depend on the expertise. I for one do not do Laptops and Wireless, so I may not even look at your question. My expertise is more hardware focused, as I am a hardware technician. That does't mean that I can't find some way to contribute. I'm almost sure that the developers handle the hard questions. And of course there is also Bugzilla to search.