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bwhite82
November 17th, 2008, 07:01 PM
Just watched this film for the first time. Wow, I have to say, it showed me my ignorance on the history of MS and Apple. Is it historically accurate? If so, a whole lot of theft went down. Apple stealing from Xerox, MS from Apple, etc. It was a very interesting film. I'm even more jaded toward both companies now. What say you?

tgpraveen
November 17th, 2008, 07:30 PM
yeah it was a nice movie see Revolution OS too if u havent.

bytor4232
November 17th, 2008, 07:36 PM
No, it was touted as pretty wildly inaccurate. I mean, how could Jobs steal the MacOS interface from touring PARC? I'm sure some ideas came out of the visit, but really, could you steal BSD by touring Berkely? From what I understand, Microsoft actually hired PARC developers when he wrote windows. I really can't back that up with sources, but I read it somewhere a few years ago.

I completely dislike both companies, to be completely honest. I didn't need that movie to cement my opinion. Either would stab you in the back for a dollar, and could care less about making the industry better.

And yes, RevolutionOS is a great film.

bash
November 17th, 2008, 07:45 PM
As for Apple and Xerox: Apple/Steve Jobs bought the patent rights from Xerox. So that was no theft.

bwhite82
November 17th, 2008, 09:37 PM
yeah it was a nice movie see Revolution OS too if u havent.

Thanks for the tip, will have to check it out.


No, it was touted as pretty wildly inaccurate. I mean, how could Jobs steal the MacOS interface from touring PARC? I'm sure some ideas came out of the visit, but really, could you steal BSD by touring Berkely? From what I understand, Microsoft actually hired PARC developers when he wrote windows. I really can't back that up with sources, but I read it somewhere a few years ago.

Thats why I was asking whether it was historically accurate. The film portrayed it as Apple visiting Xerox and ripping their GUI idea. Also of Microsoft working for Apple, getting Macintosh prototypes then copying that design.

Phreaker
November 17th, 2008, 09:43 PM
I really liked that movie.And so did my mom

Jose Catre-Vandis
November 17th, 2008, 09:46 PM
And Linux developers don't try to make their programs/OS/DE look and act like.... :0)

(oh dear - I'm in for a beasting!)

I-75
November 17th, 2008, 11:22 PM
For those that didn't know, the first GUI was from Xerox Alto in 1973.

aysiu
November 17th, 2008, 11:30 PM
And Linux developers don't try to make their programs/OS/DE look and act like.... :0)

(oh dear - I'm in for a beasting!)
No, you're absolutely not in for a beating (or a beasting, whatever that is).

I don't see what's so bad about copying, honestly. I don't pick software or operating systems for their originality. I don't care who came up with what idea. I use what works best for me.

Sealbhach
November 17th, 2008, 11:49 PM
According to Steve Wozniak, everything in the movie happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lx9JsSTklI

Revolution OS is a must-see for any GNU/Linux user as well.


.

halitech
November 24th, 2008, 06:56 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if some of it was exagerated but the basis is pretty close to historical records. If they weren't close, Bill and Steve and everyone else portrayed in the movie would probably have made a fair bit of noise about being portrayed the way they were. I'm sure some of the antics were exagerated and some of the lines made up (like Bill being able to create furniture out of playboy magazines, but then again, who knows) but over all it was a really accurate movie.

and as I-75 said, Xerox came up with the first mouse/gui but the big boys didn't see it having a future so they let it go to Steve Jobs.

ZuLuuuuuu
November 24th, 2008, 07:26 PM
The film portrayed it as Apple visiting Xerox and ripping their GUI idea. Also of Microsoft working for Apple, getting Macintosh prototypes then copying that design.

As bash said, they bought the patents not ripped. If Apple didn't bought them maybe they would remain as a scientific experiment and nobody would ever use it at homes, maybe someone else would buy... But stealing and buying is different.

Return to the movie; it was a great film. Anthony Michael Hall's performance was remarkable. I don't know how true is the characters but it also shows the dark side of Steve Jobs (worth watching). It is sad that the film is just a TV movie. Nevertheless, actors and the director did a great job, I think.

LowSky
November 24th, 2008, 07:36 PM
The worst crime ever commited by Microsoft was OS/2. They helped design it for IBM and then sold Windows as a cheaper competing product. They even marketed saying that Windows was cheaper and better.
Don't forget how MS got the rights to Explorer, making a deal to have full distrobution rights and give the original owner a percentage of sales, when they turn around and give it away for free negating the payment for the owners hard work.

SunnyRabbiera
November 24th, 2008, 08:28 PM
The worst crime ever commited by Microsoft was OS/2. They helped design it for IBM and then sold Windows as a cheaper competing product. They even marketed saying that Windows was cheaper and better.
Don't forget how MS got the rights to Explorer, making a deal to have full distrobution rights and give the original owner a percentage of sales, when they turn around and give it away for free negating the payment for the owners hard work.

Agreed, OS/2 would have been better then windows if Microsoft didnt screw IBM

LowSky
November 24th, 2008, 09:22 PM
OS/2 was better than Windows. Hell you could run Windows while running OS/2.

Anyone find it funny that Apple named there current operating system OS/X, to me it seemed like a kick in the chicken nuggets to IBM.

handy
November 24th, 2008, 11:13 PM
Jobs didn't steal from Xerox, he gave Xerox one million dollars (from memory) of shares in the Apple corporation, to be allowed to come in & see what they were developing.

The thing that Jobs saw that blew his mind, was Alan Kay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Kay)'s Smalltalk, which was a programing language & OS all in one that used a mouse driven GUI. This knocked Jobs out, & according to Jobs, it took him about 10 minutes to realise that this is how everyone will be using computers in the future. Smalltalk inspired Jobs to create the Mac's.

Alan Kay went & worked for Apple for some time, whilst continuing the development of Smalltalk, & its offshoots including Squeak, Scratch & eToys. Alan Kay also created the Dynabook (notebook) in theory, at least 40 years ago.

Kay is a prime mover behind educating children to think better than the dumb grown-ups they are surrounded by, therefore the one computer per child routine, eToys is an integral part of the XO computers.

eToys (http://www.squeakland.org/) is a LOT of fun. :-)

tsali
November 25th, 2008, 12:39 AM
Insanely Great by Steven Levy (http://www.amazon.com/Insanely-Great-Macintosh-Computer-Everything/dp/0140291776)