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olskar
November 17th, 2008, 01:37 PM
Hi!

For starters I am not good at what is inside computers and how it works.

Currently I have a nVIDIA GeForce 6150SE in my HP DX2450. As I understand it, it is an integrated card?

I have those slots free (I'm not sure what they mean):
1(1) x PCI
2(2) x PCI-Express x1
1(1) x PCI-Express x16

I am planning to buy a somewhat cheap nvidia card.. 70-90 $ or something? Can I get a better card than my current for that?

hessiess
November 17th, 2008, 01:46 PM
Last I herd the GF 8800GT was the best value for money. Stick with nvidia for the best Linux compatibility.

olskar
November 17th, 2008, 01:49 PM
Oh! Sorry! I forgot to mention that my screen needs VGA

hessiess
November 17th, 2008, 01:52 PM
Oh! Sorry! I forgot to mention that my screen needs VGA

ALL DVI cards can be easily converted to VGA using a simple pass-through adapter, which they normally come with.

olskar
November 17th, 2008, 01:54 PM
ALL DVI cards can be easily converted to VGA using a simple pass-through adapter, which they normally come with.

Ah! Thanks! That I did not know

NoWayBill
November 17th, 2008, 02:13 PM
ALL DVI cards can be easily converted to VGA using a simple pass-through adapter, which they normally come with.
As long as you buy the card in a retail box, if buy OEM it will just be the card in a static bag.

olskar
November 17th, 2008, 02:19 PM
Is it something like that I need?

http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=277579&CatId=791

mips
November 17th, 2008, 02:52 PM
XFX 8800GT or 9600GT best bang for buck right now.

mips
November 17th, 2008, 02:56 PM
Is it something like that I need?

http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=277579&CatId=791

Yes. I would not worry about it though as they usually come in the box with the video card. Just double check the fine print but most come with the adapter in the box.

olskar
November 17th, 2008, 05:42 PM
Yes. I would not worry about it though as they usually come in the box with the video card. Just double check the fine print but most come with the adapter in the box.

Ok, and this XFX 8800GT or 9600GT is better than my current card?

mips
November 17th, 2008, 06:04 PM
Ok, and this XFX 8800GT or 9600GT is better than my current card?

A LOT better!!! I had a dedicated 6600 before my 9600GT and the difference is really big.

EDIT: Sorry the forums had glitch when I posted this, there are two links below.
Comparison:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units#GeF orce_6_series
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=192&card2=557 No 6150SE but 6200 is more powerfull

Review:
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1243&pageID=4556

olskar
November 17th, 2008, 07:03 PM
A LOT better!!! I had a dedicated 6600 before my 9600GT and the difference is really big.

Comparison:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units#GeF orce_6_serieshttp://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=192&card2=557 No 6150SE but 6200 is more powerfull

Review:
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1243&pageID=4556

Nice, and it will fit in one of those places I wrote about in the first post? :)

hessiess
November 17th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Nice, and it will fit in one of those places I wrote about in the first post? :)

yes, its PCI-E x16

mips
November 17th, 2008, 07:45 PM
yes, its PCI-E x16

+1 It will fit in your 1(1) x PCI-Express x16

Just one question, does your Power Supply Unit have one of those 6pin power connectors for graphics cards?

http://www.bjorn3d.com/Material/revimages/video/xfx_9600gt/tn_c3.jpg

Better Image but of a 9800gx2, you only need a 6-pin connector like the one next to the little grey cable
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/679/geforce_9800gx2_power2.jpg

EDIT: You will also need a minimum of a 400Watt PSU so check your PCs specs first before buying anything.

Eddie Wilson
November 17th, 2008, 07:47 PM
Don't rule out ATI. Since Amd took them over their linux support has gotten better than nVidia. nVidia will never open source their drivers and most of the ATI drivers are opened sourced. Besides you can get a faster card for the money along with better linux support. For the last several years I've been using a nVidia card with my linux install but its time to support a company who supports linux for real.

mips
November 17th, 2008, 08:18 PM
Don't rule out ATI. Since Amd took them over their linux support has gotten better than nVidia. nVidia will never open source their drivers and most of the ATI drivers are opened sourced. Besides you can get a faster card for the money along with better linux support.

Ati drivers are still not on par with nvidia, not today anyway.

Do you work for or own nvidia that you can say they will NEVER opensource their drivers?

Faster card, yes, better linux support, not right now.

hessiess
November 17th, 2008, 09:10 PM
ati drivers are still not on par with nvidia, not today anyway.

Do you work for or own nvidia that you can say they will never opensource their drivers?

Faster card, yes, better linux support, not right now.

+1

olskar
November 17th, 2008, 09:17 PM
+1 It will fit in your 1(1) x PCI-Express x16

Just one question, does your Power Supply Unit have one of those 6pin power connectors for graphics cards?

http://www.bjorn3d.com/Material/revimages/video/xfx_9600gt/tn_c3.jpg

Better Image but of a 9800gx2, you only need a 6-pin connector like the one next to the little grey cable
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/679/geforce_9800gx2_power2.jpg

EDIT: You will also need a minimum of a 400Watt PSU so check your PCs specs first before buying anything.

Hm that does not look good..

"300W ATX power supply PFC/non-PFC with a 115v/230v line switch "

:(

hessiess
November 17th, 2008, 09:22 PM
Hm that does not look good..

"300W ATX power supply – PFC/non-PFC with a 115v/230v line switch "

:(

Not too much of a problem, you will also need a more powerful PSU, which is about 50~. fitting a PSU isn't difficult, just undo 4 screws, pull out some cables, remove old one, insert new one, reverse removal procedure ;)

CholericKoala
November 17th, 2008, 09:25 PM
500 watt psu max. More than that is excessive unless you are gonna do SLI with an 8 core processor.

8800gt is slightly better than the 9600gt according to tomshardware

olskar
November 17th, 2008, 09:30 PM
Not too much of a problem, you will also need a more powerful PSU, which is about 50~. fitting a PSU isn't difficult, just undo 4 screws, pull out some cables, remove old one, insert new one, reverse removal procedure ;)

I see, but then the new one needs to have one of those 6pin power connectors for graphics cards as mips writes?

How do I know that when I buy a new one, is it called something?

Also, 500w is good? I found a really cheap 480W

hessiess
November 17th, 2008, 09:38 PM
I see, but then the new one needs to have one of those 6pin power connectors for graphics cards as mips writes?

How do I know that when I buy a new one, is it called something?

Also, 500w is good? I found a really cheap 480W

Its normally just called a PCI-E connector, most PSU's come with them now.
You want to avoid cheep PSU's, as they can provide unstable voltages and current, which can damage your computer. Also, if the PSU fails, especially cheep ones, it can output high voltages, permanently damaging components.

shadowdude1794
November 17th, 2008, 09:44 PM
You should go with one of EVGA's cards. They have this really cool program called the "step-up program" which lets you trade in your card at a later date for a card of that price. I traded my 9800 gtx for one of the new 280s.

mips
November 17th, 2008, 10:39 PM
Its normally just called a PCI-E connector, most PSU's come with them now.
You want to avoid cheep PSU's, as they can provide unstable voltages and current, which can damage your computer. Also, if the PSU fails, especially cheep ones, it can output high voltages, permanently damaging components.

+1

It is just called a PCI-E Power Connector, 6-pin.

Cheap power supplies are to be avoided.

450W-500W should be fine for your needs.

Can people recommend him some good brand PSUs please, last one I purchased was a 450W gigabyte and it is still going strong although a bit to loud :)

mips
November 17th, 2008, 10:44 PM
olskar,

Are you buying this stuff from a online shop or a normal shop?
If online post the links to the shop(s) here and we can help you look through it.

If you are using a normal shop then just print this thread and take it with you. Showing them what connector the PSU needs from the above pictures :)

In the morning when I wake up I will download your PC's service manual to double check everything.


Hm that does not look good..

"300W ATX power supply – PFC/non-PFC with a 115v/230v line switch "

:(

olskar
November 17th, 2008, 11:28 PM
olskar,

Are you buying this stuff from a online shop or a normal shop?
If online post the links to the shop(s) here and we can help you look through it.

If you are using a normal shop then just print this thread and take it with you. Showing them what connector the PSU needs from the above pictures :)

In the morning when I wake up I will download your PC's service manual to double check everything.

That is very kind of you!


I am planning to buy it online.
So far I have only searched for it with pricerunner and such.


One that I found is this, ACE RAW DEAL 460W ATX

jbrown96
November 17th, 2008, 11:58 PM
I think that the advice on the Nvidia 9xxx series is completely over-kill. What's your primary use? Unless it is serious Windows gaming don't even think about spending that much. Practically anything one the market right now would slaughter what you have. I would look at a 7xxx or cheap 8xxx card.
I have an integrated ATI 3200HD, which works very well (although there are tearing problems with HD video). In my laptop, I'm using a Nvidia Quadro FX 570m, which totally rocks for video (but it runs around $150 and its lousy for games).
You need to figure out what you're going to use it for. Smooth desktop, Compiz, etc: the cheaper the better. Seriously just buy the bare minimum. You shouldn't be spending more than US$35.
Video playback** go for the 7xxx series. Take a look at Newegg. I found many for $27-$29. They have quite a bit of Vram and no fan.
** If you want to do HD playback get an 8xxx series. Nvidia just released a new driver today that has awesome video decoding, but it will only work with 8xxx+ so the 7 series is out. This will only matter for HD though.

The problem with the suggestions for the 8600 and 9xxx cards is that they are hogs. That's great if you need lots of performance (i.e. very intense games) but otherwise it's a waste. They use more electricity, which costs more and is a total waste if you're not using them, and the fans add a lot of noise, which can get very annoying. Furthermore, if you get a really big card and need to get a bigger PSU, then the inefficiencies of a large PSU add more noise and cost.

tbroderick
November 18th, 2008, 12:01 AM
Shouldn't you say whay you are going to use the video card for before people start telling you which one to buy? Are you dual booting with Windows? Linux Gaming? Linux Gaming with Wine? Rendering?

Twitch6000
November 18th, 2008, 12:08 AM
Shouldn't you say whay you are going to use the video card for before people start telling you which one to buy? Are you dual booting with Windows? Linux Gaming? Linux Gaming with Wine? Rendering?

+1 with this.

Anyways the card I am using nvidia 8200m works great on both Linux and Windows XP and gives great performance :).

olskar
November 18th, 2008, 12:13 AM
Shouldn't you say whay you are going to use the video card for before people start telling you which one to buy? Are you dual booting with Windows? Linux Gaming? Linux Gaming with Wine? Rendering?

Ah, good point :)

A good floating system with compiz :), some linux gaming with wine (therefore I think nvidia is best), photoediting. yeah, about that :)

Perhaps later on dualboot with windows if I really wants to play a game that does not work with wine

jbrown96
November 18th, 2008, 12:37 AM
Ah, good point :)

A good floating system with compiz :), some linux gaming with wine (therefore I think nvidia is best), photoediting. yeah, about that :)

Perhaps later on dualboot with windows if I really wants to play a game that does not work with wine

I think you're better off with an 8 series card. I'd go with a fanless model, but I'm picky about noise.
Here's a couple I found on Newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162003
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814141068
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121240

CholericKoala
November 18th, 2008, 04:24 AM
I think you're better off with an 8 series card. I'd go with a fanless model, but I'm picky about noise.
Here's a couple I found on Newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162003
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814141068
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121240

If you want to play games with great graphics and high fps, you HAVE to get a 8600, 8800, 9600, 9800 or higher. In fact, 8600 is pushing it.

Go to tomshardware.com and look at their charts. My 8800gt works excellent and is not overkill, it is just right. Anything below that gives you crappy frames.

By games I mean stuff like CoD4, Crysis, Bioshock, Medieval2 total war, Oblivion. You can play those with lower end cards, but dont expect things to be pretty, or smooth.

olskar
November 21st, 2008, 05:30 PM
I think that the advice on the Nvidia 9xxx series is completely over-kill. What's your primary use? Unless it is serious Windows gaming don't even think about spending that much. Practically anything one the market right now would slaughter what you have. I would look at a 7xxx or cheap 8xxx card.
I have an integrated ATI 3200HD, which works very well (although there are tearing problems with HD video). In my laptop, I'm using a Nvidia Quadro FX 570m, which totally rocks for video (but it runs around $150 and its lousy for games).
You need to figure out what you're going to use it for. Smooth desktop, Compiz, etc: the cheaper the better. Seriously just buy the bare minimum. You shouldn't be spending more than US$35.
Video playback** go for the 7xxx series. Take a look at Newegg. I found many for $27-$29. They have quite a bit of Vram and no fan.
** If you want to do HD playback get an 8xxx series. Nvidia just released a new driver today that has awesome video decoding, but it will only work with 8xxx+ so the 7 series is out. This will only matter for HD though.

The problem with the suggestions for the 8600 and 9xxx cards is that they are hogs. That's great if you need lots of performance (i.e. very intense games) but otherwise it's a waste. They use more electricity, which costs more and is a total waste if you're not using them, and the fans add a lot of noise, which can get very annoying. Furthermore, if you get a really big card and need to get a bigger PSU, then the inefficiencies of a large PSU add more noise and cost.

Ok, so if I buy something from the 7xxx series I wont have to upgrade my PSU?

kelvin spratt
November 21st, 2008, 05:47 PM
I use a Nvidia 7600gt with 500mb built in ram compiz permantly on with a standard 350 watt power supply I get 4500 fps with glxgears compiz on and run dvds with no jerkyness all for 35.00

olskar
November 21st, 2008, 05:49 PM
I use a Nvidia 7600gt with 500mb built in ram compiz permantly on with a standard 350 watt power supply I get 4500 fps with glxgears compiz on and run dvds with no jerkyness all for 35.00

That sounds nice! :)

I wonder if it works with my 300W PSU..

jbrown96
November 21st, 2008, 09:38 PM
I was considering buying a friend's 8800GTS, and tried it on my system. I have a pathetic 280W PSU. My system has AMD 4850e (65W), Gigabyte 780g motherboard, and two hard drives (one WD "green"). There were no problems with Nvidia card. Granted my system is built for really low power use.

I think its way overstated how much power you need. It's not good for the PSU to be running near max output all the time, but I wouldn't be concerned if I were you.

olskar
November 22nd, 2008, 12:23 AM
I was considering buying a friend's 8800GTS, and tried it on my system. I have a pathetic 280W PSU. My system has AMD 4850e (65W), Gigabyte 780g motherboard, and two hard drives (one WD "green"). There were no problems with Nvidia card. Granted my system is built for really low power use.

I think its way overstated how much power you need. It's not good for the PSU to be running near max output all the time, but I wouldn't be concerned if I were you.

Ah ok, hm that sounds good..
Perhaps I should go for a 7600gt and dont change my PSU..

Now my only concern is to know if my current PSU have a PCI-E Power Connector, 6-pin..

jbrown96
November 22nd, 2008, 03:08 AM
Ah ok, hm that sounds good..
Perhaps I should go for a 7600gt and dont change my PSU..

Now my only concern is to know if my current PSU have a PCI-E Power Connector, 6-pin..

The 8600GTS that I tried had the power connector on it. My friend said that I didn't need to hook it up. I only used it for a day, but had no problems with the power that the PCI-e slot provided. I'm no expert on this, but it doesn't seem to be necessary.

olskar
November 22nd, 2008, 10:49 PM
The 8600GTS that I tried had the power connector on it. My friend said that I didn't need to hook it up. I only used it for a day, but had no problems with the power that the PCI-e slot provided. I'm no expert on this, but it doesn't seem to be necessary.

Ok, nice :)

I think I will buy a 7600gt and try if it works without changing my PSU.

What is the worst that could happend, a computer that doesn't start or a computer on fire?

plun
November 22nd, 2008, 11:32 PM
Ok, nice :)

I think I will buy a 7600gt and try if it works without changing my PSU.

What is the worst that could happend, a computer that doesn't start or a computer on fire?

Well... saw this thread, it might be difficult to find 7xxx cards in Sweden

I also wants VDPAU (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=123091) and then its to go up to 8XXX cards.

a 8800GT card maybe
http://www.prisjakt.nu/search.php?query=8800#rparams=ss=8800gt

The PSU can be a challenge...:)

mips
November 23rd, 2008, 12:41 PM
I also wants VDPAU (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=123091) and then its to go up to 8XXX cards.


VDPAU is great for letting the GPU do video decoding and freeing your cpu up.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=123091

VDPAU is currently supported on the following NVIDIA GPUs:

Desktop GPUs:
GeForce 200 Series
GeForce 9 Series
GeForce 86xx Series
GeForce 85xx Series
GeForce 84xx Series
GeForce 8300 GS
GeForce 8800 GTS 512
GeForce 8800 GT
GeForce 8800 GS

Mobile GPUs:
GeForce 98xxM
GeForce 9700M
GeForce 96xxM
GeForce 9500M
GeForce 9300M
GeForce 9200M
GeForce 8800M
GeForce 8800M GTS
GeForce 8800M GTX
GeForce 8600M
GeForce 8400M

Motherboard GPUs:
GeForce 9400
GeForce 9300
GeForce 9100
GeForce 8300
GeForce 8200