This man obviously hasn't seen Ubuntu

[robstr12]

I came across this site:

http://www.virtuelvis.com/archives/148.html

And I have to admit, it brought a smile to my face, about the bewildering choices that Linux offers to `less motivated users'.

However, the simplicity of Ubuntu takes care of these concerns, beautifully, I might add.

Proof?
I got your proof, too!

I went to my buddie's house, to install Ubuntu on his rig. His ME was forked, but good. His rig was toasted. A paperweight. He wanted to buy another computer.

I said, let the robstr have a go, first. He agreed. He took a look and was amazed at his new computer. His only concern... could he do his AIM and his Yahoo chat stuff. (some kind of chatroom things that young people do... I don't know what's up with it, I don't do these things... he tries to meet women with this, I believe).


So, I investigate.
In short order, he has his chat room thingys going. Not only does he have his AOL thing *AND* his Yahoo things going, but, they are INTEGRATED as one program in GAIM.

I use the well written howtos here on this site to install the multimedia stuff and the flash. He's got it all.

The dude is amazed. He tells his buddy,,, hey, robstr will do your computer into a linux machine...

I say... "Sure man, its a free OS that kicks butt!"

hehe... He thinks I'm a guru.

So, now he's chasing women in the chatrooms with greater efficiency, I guess...

I'm gonna dual-boot my Mom, too.
I'm telling you all, this distro is the one that is going to be simple enough for everyone to use.

[Adrenal]

All hail Ubuntu, the ease of XP, the security of Redhat, and the coolness of the fonz

[Quest-Master]

We will take over soon. :D

I've already gotten many people over at the game developement communities ordering Ubuntu CDs.

[CowPie]

I came across this site:

http://www.virtuelvis.com/archives/148.html

And I have to admit, it brought a smile to my face, about the bewildering choices that Linux offers to `less motivated users'.

However, the simplicity of Ubuntu takes care of these concerns, beautifully, I might add.

Proof?
I got your proof, too!

I went to my buddie's house, to install Ubuntu on his rig. His ME was forked, but good. His rig was toasted. A paperweight. He wanted to buy another computer.

I said, let the robstr have a go, first. He agreed. He took a look and was amazed at his new computer. His only concern... could he do his AIM and his Yahoo chat stuff. (some kind of chatroom things that young people do... I don't know what's up with it, I don't do these things... he tries to meet women with this, I believe).


So, I investigate.
In short order, he has his chat room thingys going. Not only does he have his AOL thing *AND* his Yahoo things going, but, they are INTEGRATED as one program in GAIM.

I use the well written howtos here on this site to install the multimedia stuff and the flash. He's got it all.

The dude is amazed. He tells his buddy,,, hey, robstr will do your computer into a linux machine...

I say... "Sure man, its a free OS that kicks butt!"

hehe... He thinks I'm a guru.

So, now he's chasing women in the chatrooms with greater efficiency, I guess...

I'm gonna dual-boot my Mom, too.
I'm telling you all, this distro is the one that is going to be simple enough for everyone to use.
HEhe :) When UBuntu is better with Winodws networking/shared printers I will be happier though!

[BWF89]

Windows=For gamers...

Linux= For everyone else...

There is always going to be people who will criticise Linux. If you have 7 programs and you only need one Heres an idea! ONLY USE ONE! If you have everything you need use the programs you are comfortable useing and if there are others either ignore them or delete them off your Linux equivilant of a start menue...

[virtuelvis]

I came across this site:

http://www.virtuelvis.com/archives/148.html

And I have to admit, it brought a smile to my face, about the bewildering choices that Linux offers to `less motivated users'.


Hi. I'm the writer of said blog posting, and I am actually an Ubuntu user, and have been so since sometime in 2005.

Believe me when I say nothing makes me happier than when I can just install an OS for people and have them use it without instruction. Ubuntu has come a long way towards that.

[henriquemaia]

Hi. I'm the writer of said blog posting, and I am actually an Ubuntu user, and have been so since sometime in 2005.

Believe me when I say nothing makes me happier than when I can just install an OS for people and have them use it without instruction. Ubuntu has come a long way towards that.

I was a bit confused when I read your post after reading the article, then I saw it was posted somewhere in 2004.

If I may ask, what do you think about this through the looking glass of your ubuntu experience?

[towsonu2003]

Hi. I'm the writer of said blog posting
The blog (fairly old I guess?) talks about "too many applications for one job".

I see the point, but still....

I have to say this: when I first heard about Linux, I was paying to [oh crap, I forgot the name.. ??? -> googling for it] Norton for the first time in my life to keep antivirus up-to-date, and that got me angry.

so I googled "linux" (a word I heard a while ago from a pc magazine) and found Slackware, and a very nice howto to install it (included screenshots of each installation step). I told it to install defaults, and when kde launched and I checked the menu, I was amazed...

I tried everything in that menu (which computer has 4 internet explorers, 2 Excels, and 3 Words for gods sake!1!!) , with pure joy of having so many software, for free, without downloading or scanning anything. wow...

Well, I had to ditch slackware (at that time, it was too hard for me + winmodem issues => now experimenting with slackware again). but never forgot the richness of those menus.

it was #2 reason (#1 -> paying Norton) I decided to stick with Linux and figure out a way to learn how to use an OS from scratch.

well, just ranting :)

[S{yndrom}e]

I have to agree, Linux is just soo much cleaner, efficient, and less bloated. the one thing (among many others) which is so much better than ******* is that there is no registry! I remember having a regristry just clogged with useless folders. Also, when you un-install something in ubuntu, you actually uninstall it and not leave broken links all over the place.

well my $0.02

[aysiu]

The Linux desktop is making rapid progress. Criticisms from 2004 are mostly out-of-date two years down the road.

XP is pretty much the same way it was in 2001.

When I tried Linux in 2004, package management wasn't refined (or documentation for it wasn't plentiful enough), there was no good Linux distribution chooser quiz, Ubuntu wasn't around, and automounting of USB devices was not standard. I gave up.

A year later in 2005, all those problems were solved.

[towsonu2003]

I remember having a regristry just clogged with useless folders.
that registry...

[rant starts]
my new laptop was failing (turn on and off at its own will) and first I tried to reinstall Windows (didn't help), than a reinstalled it again from scratch and took it to the seller (didn't want him to say "software glitch"). He run a registry test and told me that my registry had some "bad stuff".

He didn't want to believe that windows was just reinstalled and it was the third time the newly installed windows was being booted...
[/rants ends]

[prizrak]

I think the issue for the most part is defaults. Slack and Debian and I guess RedHat to some degree tend to install everything you need up front. Other distros will install the absolute minimum. Basically it's about finding a distribution that installs a single application for the job. Ubuntu does a good job at that I believe. It also happens to install the most known applications such as Open Office and Firefox, which makes the transition much easier.

[virtuelvis]

I was a bit confused when read your post after reading the article, then I saw it was posted somewhere in 2004.

If I may ask, what do you think about this through the looking glass of your ubuntu experience?

Mostly, it has been a nice experience, but I still have a few complaints:


While I appreciate that non-free and restricted content is not installed by default, I still think many converts will need it. Finding the information on how to get the most common restricted content is too hard. Asking a question about this on the #ubuntu channel on freenode does not yield friendly answers from the veterans. Like it or not, we live in a world where people do encode stuff in WMV or MP3.
Enabling multiverse and universe ought to be much easier and more visible.
I don't use the system provided Firefox browser (I work for Opera (http://www.opera.com/)), but I still keep it around to test stuff, and I believe the update managment for this application is pretty much a disaster. I realise that the 6-month release cycles are for updating major versions of software, but with regard to the system-provided web browser, this is problematic. The second problem is for those users who upgrade to 1.5.x.x : apt has serious problems with understanding that my diverted 1.5.0.3 is newer than the security update 1.0.8 that Ubuntu provides. Again, I do not use Firefox, but my anger would see no end if this caused me data loss.
Unmounting my iPod always shoves an "Unable to eject media" dialog. Not too pleasing.
I pretty much would expect bluetooth to work out of the box. I've had to install bunches of packages to get it working. In the end, I only end up using p3nfs anyway.
Totem: This is where Ubuntu really, really, really needs to get its act cleaned up. I really don't want to have to choose between totem-xine or totem-gstreamer. I want to view my media files.
As little as we may like it: Keyboards these days have two (three) more keys than they did before 1995/96. I expect the Start Menu key to Just Work(tm). It doesn't.
I own an iPod. No software for interacting with an iPod is pre-installed. Realise that a lot of people own iPods. At least offer to install the software when known, popular hardware is recognized.
As I said, I own an iPod, and GTKPod is a piece of manure. It has corrupted my iTunesDB on a number of occasions, it refuses to put files back on the iPod if it has extracted them from there in the past, and it generally doesn't work well. (I resolved this in the end by replacing the firmware with Rockbox (http://www.rockbox.org/), a brilliant piece of software.
I haven't had a floppy drive for years. I don't see the point of Ubuntu installing software for hardware that isn't present
Graphics drivers. Yes, I know. The manufacturers of hardware aren't playing nice, but sometimes I think a little pragmatism may be in order. First time I tried to get an ATI card to work properly, I ended up spending the better part of a summer night getting it to work properly. Nvidia was much easier, though.
I have a rotatable LCD, but I could never get display rotation to work properly.
That the default handler for a CD is a ripper is fine by me, but why SoundJuicer? It feels fairly inferior compared to Grip.
I may very well end up mourning the switch to the Tango theme.


Note that while I could've made this list much, much, much longer, I still find Ubuntu to be a huge improvement over any Windows I've ever used.

[nalmeth]

While Linux-whiners may argue all that we want that Windows is not about freedom, I’ll state the opposite: Windows is all about freedom. Windows is freedom from complicated choices, it’s freedom from having to learn something new, something not really relevant to the task you want to do.
bawawahahahaha!!!!!

Ahh, it put's a smile on my face too.
Funny funny

Freedom from complicated choices.

@ virtuelvis
Automatix addresses most of your complaints.
Good job with rockbox, I've just heard about this stuff. I'm going to try to do my buddies ipod with it, he complains that he can't get flac files on it (using newest gtkpod thanks to endersshadow)
I agree about soundjuicer, it works really well, but doesn't look very nice.
You should try the still life icon theme.

[tseliot]

While Linux-whiners may argue all that we want that Windows is not about freedom, I’ll state the opposite: Windows is all about freedom. Windows is freedom from complicated choices, it’s freedom from having to learn something new, something not really relevant to the task you want to do.

This is where Linux fails. Miserably. Linux is about freedom. A different kind of freedom. It’s freedom to choose to use any one of seven text editors to perform the same task. It’s the freedom to choose any one of several ridiculously complicated Window Managers. It’s the freedom to choose any one of two or three IDEs. It’s the freedom to install lots of perpetually unused servers.

That guy needs a good dictionary. I guess "Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary" is good enough.

Let's focus on the word "Freedom"

Here are its definitions:


1) the condition or right of being able or allowed to do, say, think, etc. whatever you want to, without being controlled or limited

2) a right to act in the way you think you should

In that review the author seems to think that "freedom" takes place when someone else makes decisions for you.

There's nothing wrong with his thought but I think he could definitely look up the words he uses before writing a review.

And, by the way, the freedom of choice doesn't only lie in the fact of choosing a text editor among other 70 possible choices. That's possible also in Windows.

But I'm sure there's no need to explain what freedom in Linux is about (since we are all GNU/Linux users)

[henriquemaia]

Mostly, it has been a nice experience, but I still have a few complaints:


While I appreciate that non-free and restricted content is not installed by default, I still think many converts will need it. Finding the information on how to get the most common restricted content is too hard. Asking a question about this on the #ubuntu channel on freenode does not yield friendly answers from the veterans. Like it or not, we live in a world where people do encode stuff in WMV or MP3.
Enabling multiverse and universe ought to be much easier and more visible.
I don't use the system provided Firefox browser (I work for Opera (http://www.opera.com/)), but I still keep it around to test stuff, and I believe the update managment for this application is pretty much a disaster. I realise that the 6-month release cycles are for updating major versions of software, but with regard to the system-provided web browser, this is problematic. The second problem is for those users who upgrade to 1.5.x.x : apt has serious problems with understanding that my diverted 1.5.0.3 is newer than the security update 1.0.8 that Ubuntu provides. Again, I do not use Firefox, but my anger would see no end if this caused me data loss.
Unmounting my iPod always shoves an "Unable to eject media" dialog. Not too pleasing.
I pretty much would expect bluetooth to work out of the box. I've had to install bunches of packages to get it working. In the end, I only end up using p3nfs anyway.
Totem: This is where Ubuntu really, really, really needs to get its act cleaned up. I really don't want to have to choose between totem-xine or totem-gstreamer. I want to view my media files.
As little as we may like it: Keyboards these days have two (three) more keys than they did before 1995/96. I expect the Start Menu key to Just Work(tm). It doesn't.
I own an iPod. No software for interacting with an iPod is pre-installed. Realise that a lot of people own iPods. At least offer to install the software when known, popular hardware is recognized.
As I said, I own an iPod, and GTKPod is a piece of manure. It has corrupted my iTunesDB on a number of occasions, it refuses to put files back on the iPod if it has extracted them from there in the past, and it generally doesn't work well. (I resolved this in the end by replacing the firmware with Rockbox (http://www.rockbox.org/), a brilliant piece of software.
I haven't had a floppy drive for years. I don't see the point of Ubuntu installing software for hardware that isn't present
Graphics drivers. Yes, I know. The manufacturers of hardware aren't playing nice, but sometimes I think a little pragmatism may be in order. First time I tried to get an ATI card to work properly, I ended up spending the better part of a summer night getting it to work properly. Nvidia was much easier, though.
I have a rotatable LCD, but I could never get display rotation to work properly.
That the default handler for a CD is a ripper is fine by me, but why SoundJuicer? It feels fairly inferior compared to Grip.
I may very well end up mourning the switch to the Tango theme.


Note that while I could've made this list much, much, much longer, I still find Ubuntu to be a huge improvement over any Windows I've ever used.

Thanks for your reply. Some of the points you mentioned can be solved rather easily, but as hacks. But that you already know but Joe Phobic don't, so you have a point there.

[prizrak]

virtuelvis,
Which Ubuntu are you using? It will be interesting to see your thoughts on Dapper when it comes out in June.

[zugu]

Unfortunately, Joe exists. And there are a lot of people like him.

I know a lot of Joes. Whenever these Joes have "problems with the PC" - actually Windows problems - they call me. They hav no idea how to install a program, less how to customize it.

Whenever I am performing a full system install on a Joe's PC, this dialog occurs:

Me: Say, Joe, have you ever heard about Firefox?
Joe: No. What is it?
Me: It's a web browser.
Joe: What is a web browser?
Me: It's a program just as IE is, only it's better, it has more useful functions and it enhances the security on your computer. Are you ready to give it a try?
##shocked. IE !== The Internet?
Joe:... ... ... I don't know... we've just installed a fresh WinXP, so I guess installing more unnecessary stuff it's a bad idea.
##Joe knows that randomly installyng stuff is a bad idea, I just told him after reviewing his wiped out Windows OS
Me: But Joe, it's not useless, it helps you a lot.
Joe: And if we install this Firefox thing, will my internet dissapear from the Desktop?
##Notice how IE is associated with the internet.
Me: No, Joe, they can coexist with no problem.
Joe: I don't know, maybe we'll try it.
##observe the fear, because this is what it is, it's fear of the unknown
*installing Mozilla Firefox*
Me: See, Joe? These are called tabs... *insert more Firefox feautres*
Joe: Actually, let's get this thing off of my computer, I guess I'll stick with IE, I just feel more comfortable with it.
##Joe has just met the advantages of a good web browser. The implications are just mind boggling for him, so his mind just refuses to let him make the "upgrade"

I really don't know the world demographics of this type of populace, but where I live, they are a lot.
These people just won't accept something new. Their mind is locked. Not on Microsoft on purpose, but because this is what they first experienced. Of course they think Microsoft is the best, because they never experienced something else.
Or they are just lazy.
Or they just don't want to know how their OS works, how and where programs are installed. They just want someone to do the work for them, because they cannot handle such "complex" things as installing a video game, less the OS itself. They just want their MSN and Counter-Strike icons on the Desktop.

This kind of people will hardly install a GNU/Linux system on their computer, but if they do it, transition will be a painful process.

After a while, I quit helping these Joes with their computers. I was sick of it.

[benplaut]

It’s freedom to choose to use any one of seven text editors to perform the same task

7? more like a few hundred...

[virtuelvis]

That guy needs a good dictionary. I guess "Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary" is good enough.

Let's focus on the word "Freedom"

Here are its definitions:

In that review the author seems to think that "freedom" takes place when someone else makes decisions for you.

There's nothing wrong with his thought but I think he could definitely look up the words he uses before writing a review.

Who says I didn't? There is a distinction between "Freedom from choice" and "Freedom of choice" here. People do actually want choices made for them, and they are exercising their freedoms when they make a choice to let others make choices. Apple OS X users are one of these groups who conciously exercise this option of freedom, and accept Steve Jobs as God.

[risbac]

Joe wants a very simple and efficient OS and he tries KDE??? I use both KDE and Gnome, no offense for KDE, but honestly, for a beginner with this profile, it's Gnome all the way.... It's just like to give a sport car to someone who likes comfortable big cars. Then obviously it won't work. I'm not saying that Ubuntu is much better than windows XP, blablablabla. But it's just a pretty bad exemple. Yes in KDE there are plenty of applications, maybe too many. It's better recently though, you only have one internet browser. But still, for this kind of person, why propose KDE??? I need an explanation, it's so obvious to me that I must be missing something, isn't it?

[Carrots171]

I've just installed Windows! It looks great. Wait. Where's Firefox? What's up with Internet Explorer anyway? It doesn't have any tabbed browsing! Where's OpenOffice? What? There's no office suite included with Windows? Where's GAIM? How do I IM people using my Yahoo account? This MSN Messenger thing only works with MSN! How do you watch videos? What, you need to download lots of different players to watch different formats of videos? Where's Automatix so I can install everything that's missing? I can't find it, so I guess I'll have to install OpenOffice, Firefox, GAIM, Realplayer and Quicktime player manually with Synaptic. Wait a minute. Where is Synaptic anyway? How do I install software? This stinks. I'm going back to Linux. Windows is just too hard to use for me.

[ubuntu_demon]

I've just installed Windows! It looks great. Wait. Where's Firefox? What's up with Internet Explorer anyway? It doesn't have any tabbed browsing! Where's OpenOffice? What? There's no office suite included with Windows? Where's GAIM? How do I IM people using my Yahoo account? This MSN Messenger thing only works with MSN! How do you watch videos? What, you need to download lots of different players to watch different formats of videos? Where's Automatix so I can install everything that's missing? I can't find it, so I guess I'll have to install OpenOffice, Firefox, GAIM, Realplayer and Quicktime player manually with Synaptic. Wait a minute. Where is Synaptic anyway? How do I install software? This stinks. I'm going back to Linux. Windows is just too hard to use for me.
LOL :D

[henriquemaia]

virtuelvis,
Which Ubuntu are you using? It will be interesting to see your thoughts on Dapper when it comes out in June.

I also thought about this question, since I'm very impressed with it. I think this will finally hit the spot for some of my mac friends.

[risbac]

Good example Carrots... Sadly 99% of persons are used to Windows, and of course, change means some work. Nobody can't deny that lazy people will ALWAYS prefer to stick with what they have, no matter how bad it is. There is no need to explain why something else is MUCH better, it's a normal behavior. I don't think it's interesting to fight for those people. If they are happy with their system, fine! Maybe in a few years you will see Windows fans trying to convert a Linux user to Vista, with the same problem.

[henriquemaia]

I've just installed Windows! It looks great. Wait. Where's Firefox? What's up with Internet Explorer anyway? It doesn't have any tabbed browsing! Where's OpenOffice? What? There's no office suite included with Windows? Where's GAIM? How do I IM people using my Yahoo account? This MSN Messenger thing only works with MSN! How do you watch videos? What, you need to download lots of different players to watch different formats of videos? Where's Automatix so I can install everything that's missing? I can't find it, so I guess I'll have to install OpenOffice, Firefox, GAIM, Realplayer and Quicktime player manually with Synaptic. Wait a minute. Where is Synaptic anyway? How do I install software? This stinks. I'm going back to Linux. Windows is just too hard to use for me.

:D

reversing the roles is nice, since there a loads of things that you get used to in Ubuntu that sure misses on other OSes. A month ago I was spending some time on a friend's house and she only had a Mac. I was using it every day, to check email and download the photos from my camera. I had a similar experience to that you posted. I was thinking "where's Firefox?", "How does this iPhoto works?", etc. The worst thing was that I felt like was jailed in some strange world. This is result of my familiarity with Linux in general and Ubuntu in particular.

If I was in some Mac list, I would most likely look like some of persons who arrive here having years of experience from other OSes.

It's just a matter of perspective.

I really liked your post.

[tseliot]

Who says I didn't? There is a distinction between "Freedom from choice" and "Freedom of choice" here. People do actually want choices made for them, and they are exercising their freedoms when they make a choice to let others make choices. Apple OS X users are one of these groups who conciously exercise this option of freedom, and accept Steve Jobs as God.
I know that most of people don't want to know what an Operative System is. I also know that they prefer to be guided rather than making their own choices.

Most of people don't even know what Linux is. And if they know what an operative system is, they immediately think of Windows as the only one.

Freedom in GNU/Linux is what I saw in those definitions of the dictionary, i.e. the freedom of choice.

Let me show some examples:

Most of computer are sold with Winxp preinstalled, therefore the users usually stick to the choice of the manufacturers, vendors, etc. (as they think that's the only thing they can do).

Only few computers come with a GNU/Linux distro preinstalled, and they're not that easy to find (especially here in Italy).

By Freedom of choice I mean the fact of being aware of the choices you can make, and then deciding to use Windows, Linux, or Mac.

When I was a Windows user (about 1 year ago) I thought that Windows was the only OS available (apart from Mac, which cannot be separated from its hardware). I knew only the word "Linux" and, even though I was quite an experienced Windows user, I thought that it was something too difficult to use (according to what the rumours said).

The result was that I was always complaining about Windows and swearing against Bill Gates. Then one day, out of frustration, I tried Linspire and then Ubuntu and I became aware of the fact that Windows definitely wasn't what I wanted.

I was finally free to choose because I knew what my possible choices were.

Of course using Windows is NOT bad, as long as you're aware of what the other choices are, i.e. that you couldn't feel more confortable with any other OS.
And the same discourse can be done for the several applications of the same kind which are available on the market. For example I didn't know that Openoffice was an alternative to Microsoft office, then I tried Firefox, etc.

[risbac]

And speaking of hardware drivers, what will happen if Windows is not preinstalled on computers anymore? Then we will see that the difference is not that big between Linux and Windows. Some people will install Window and will boot with a 640x480 resolution with 8 colors, no sound, no scanner and no network. Then you have to deal with the CDs, or download stuffs, install, etc, etc... If you are lucky with Linux, you can begin to use your computer much faster. I won't say that Linux is totally ready for the desktop, but if you take into account those 2 facts (the familiarity with an OS + preinstallation), the difference is not as big as most people think.

[virtuelvis]

And speaking of hardware drivers, what will happen if Windows is not preinstalled on computers anymore? Then we will see that the difference is not that big between Linux and Windows. Some people will install Window and will boot with a 640x480 resolution with 8 colors, no sound, no scanner and no network. Then you have to deal with the CDs, or download stuffs, install, etc, etc... If you are lucky with Linux, you can begin to use your computer much faster. I won't say that Linux is totally ready for the desktop, but if you take into account those 2 facts (the familiarity with an OS + preinstallation), the difference is not as big as most people think.

risbac. last time I tried (read: was forced to) to install Windows on a computer, it came up with sensible defaults, and autodetected all hardware. Falsely discrediting a competitor will not do anyone any good in the long run. It is just zealotism that scares possible Linux converts away.

[skinnygmg]

While Linux-whiners may argue all that we want that Windows is not about freedom, I’ll state the opposite: Windows is all about freedom. Windows is freedom from complicated choices, it’s freedom from having to learn something new, something not really relevant to the task you want to do.

are most people born with the ability to operate Windows?
i had to learn that too. am i missing some M$ DNA

[nalmeth]

risbac. last time I tried (read: was forced to) to install Windows on a computer, it came up with sensible defaults, and autodetected all hardware. Falsely discrediting a competitor will not do anyone any good in the long run. It is just zealotism that scares possible Linux converts away.

Good for you. Other's have not been so lucky. I think risbac was just gently making a point about how people take for granted that they purchase their system preconfigured.

And if you think risbac is a "linux zealot" then you must not wander far from the low-key ubuntuforums.

[openmind]

That's a very well-written and well-thought-out article. Unfortunately, although we don't want to admit it he hit the nail right on the head with Joe.

There are millions of users just like him, that don't know about the choices, and like the freedom of not having to choose. That's what may doom Linux to the fringes forever.

[aysiu]

risbac. last time I tried (read: was forced to) to install Windows on a computer, it came up with sensible defaults, and autodetected all hardware. Falsely discrediting a competitor will not do anyone any good in the long run. It is just zealotism that scares possible Linux converts away. Yes, one anecdote about a perfect Windows install means that all Windows installations on any hardware go off flawlessly.

I hope you don't earn a living from doing science experiments or publishing studies. Sample size 1. Sample bias 100%.

Does that mean I can extrapolate from my two Windows installation nightmare experiences that all Windows installations are nightmares and all Ubuntu installations are easy-breezy?

[graigsmith]

The Linux desktop is making rapid progress. Criticisms from 2004 are mostly out-of-date two years down the road.

XP is pretty much the same way it was in 2001.

When I tried Linux in 2004, package management wasn't refined (or documentation for it wasn't plentiful enough), there was no good Linux distribution chooser quiz, Ubuntu wasn't around, and automounting of USB devices was not standard. I gave up.

A year later in 2005, all those problems were solved.

it's actually pretty amazing. When you stop to think about it.

[qalimas]

risbac. last time I tried (read: was forced to) to install Windows on a computer, it came up with sensible defaults, and autodetected all hardware. Falsely discrediting a competitor will not do anyone any good in the long run. It is just zealotism that scares possible Linux converts away.


I can justify his post. My computer refuses to accept Windows. when I install, I find myself spending long hours getting my nvidia FX5200 working right. My Live 5.1 won't work, at all. I've downloaded the drivers (the right ones, even) from Creative, and Windows still says I don't even have the sound card. My TV Tuner won't work either. Hardly any of my hardware works out of hte box in Windows, but in Linux, every single bit of it works, my sound works perfectly (even with the 7.1 setup), the TV is only an apt-get install tvtime away, graphics are another apt-get away, it's all much easier and nicer to setup a Linux system, to me at least, and definately on my computer.

I also miss apt if I'm ever forced on Windows. Especially when doing a reinstall... with Automatix, I check everything I want, and it's off, with Windows, I have to do every single program one by one... there is no one media player that can do everything like there is in Linux, you need serveral in Windows. There are no good programs or suites included in Windows... right now, Linux is the best choice, for me anyway. Windows falls far behind, with all its immediate flaws, you then have to constantly worry about being secure, up to date with virus scanners, spyware checkers, etc.

Besides, Linux has Quanta Plus :D

Ok, I'm done ranting ^^

[virtuelvis]

About risback's slamming of Windows:


I can justify his post. My computer refuses to accept Windows. when I install, I find myself spending long hours getting my nvidia FX5200 working right.

Problems like this may occur with any system at all. I just spent half an hour reconfiguring X, removing installed packages, resolving conflicts manually , because I attempted upgrading to Dapper[1][2]. In other OS'es, I've spent the better part of a week getting a mouse to work properly[3]. I've had other (or worse) problems with other OS'es. And I've had both my "best" and "worst" hardware problems with various versions of Windows. My point is that you cannot make any judgement at all based on single aspects of an experience with an OS.

When we discard install problems (which the majority won't see anyway), we're down to the daily use of the OS. Ubuntu (and other Linuxes) has come a long way since I wrote my original posting in January 2004, but we can make it simpler and better still.

[1] The update process froze solid while attempting to reconfigure gstreamer-jack (?). Froze solid to the point where I had to go for the Windows(tm) Solution. Reboot. :mad:
[2] I simply can't wait to get Compiz working. It's most of my reason for upgrading, as it offers real usability improvements (disguised as eyecandy). Update: xgl has been nothing but trouble, and somehow in the process I got my root file system hosed, forcing me to do a manual fsck with mad dashes through lost+found to locate a few important files afterwards. :mad: :mad: :mad: ... and Rhythmbox is now blatantly refusing to recognize perfectly valid MP3s as MP3s anymore.
[3] QNX, thankyou. Once installed and working, it's rock-solid, with a wonderful light-weight window manager. Unfortunately, there is (was?) no next-to-no usable software for daily desktop use, and my other reasons for wanting to use this went away.

[prizrak]

My point is that you cannot make any judgement at all based on single aspects of an experience with an OS.
Excellent point, it really is very individual.

When we discard install problems (which the majority won't see anyway), we're down to the daily use of the OS. Ubuntu (and other Linuxes) has come a long way since I wrote my original posting in January 2004, but we can make it simpler and better still.
No one said we are stopping :)

P.S. dist-upgrade isn't polished enough yet, I believe the first version that will have it fully operational will be Dapper. In a sense Dapper is the first ready for production version of Ubuntu. That shows something considering that Ubuntu has been my desktop OS since the first version (Hoary was it?)

[risbac]

Falsely discrediting a competitor will not do anyone any good in the long run. It is just zealotism that scares possible Linux converts away.

I said "some people", not "everybody". I'm not discrediting WIndows, it's installing fine most of times. There are more problems with Linux for sure. BUt I just meant to say that the difference is not that big because Windows is preinstalled and the user doesn't have to do anything with the hardware. Then it's easy to say that Linux has plenty of pb with hardwares and Windows almost none. Your example is surely right, but I can't give you another one going totally the opposite, with Linux installing fine when Windows cannot. And you say it yourself:


Problems like this may occur with any system at all.

Every system has problems with hardware, linux more than windows, but not that much. That's my point.

[prizrak]

Every system has problems with hardware, linux more than windows, but not that much. That's my point.
Actually in my experience it is quite the opposite and I have installed both on many different machines. You had a good point earlier, ANY preinstalled system will have no driver issues whatsoever Linux, Windows, OS X, OS/2, BeOS, *BSD, it doesn't matter as long as someone takes the time to properly configure the OS it will run just fine.
Driver installation is much easier in Windows than it is in Linux, with the exception of some binary drivers like nVidia it is not for the faint of heart.

[suziequzie]

Hi. I'm the writer of said blog posting, and I am actually an Ubuntu user, and have been so since sometime in 2005.

Believe me when I say nothing makes me happier than when I can just install an OS for people and have them use it without instruction. Ubuntu has come a long way towards that.

"Neither do I expect him to enjoy such a tool."

I'm sorry man, but I cracked up reading that line. Dirty, dirty mind I have...

My sister (a Jane Phobic) is pleased with her Kubuntu setup. Having done my computer so many times, I got her's done in very short time with no problems. (Not Kubuntu's fault I had to re-install a few times, it was mine... I kept breaking it trying to tweak it and learn how it works...)

[suziequzie]

Windows=For gamers...

Linux= For everyone else...

There is always going to be people who will criticise Linux. If you have 7 programs and you only need one Heres an idea! ONLY USE ONE! If you have everything you need use the programs you are comfortable useing and if there are others either ignore them or delete them off your Linux equivilant of a start menue...

I went through my roommate's Kmenu, and got rid of anything he doesn't need to use. I made sure to put desktop icons to his most commonly used programs (open office and mozilla, the DC Heroes character generator running under wine, and his home folder). That way, he's not saying "Which one should I use???" for writing his games or surfing.

He really likes how Konqueror shows all his picture files as thumbnails when he's browsing his directories. And... I find more often than not, he's using Kubuntu now instead of windows.

He said, when I can this linux all figured out and running what he likes, he'll use it. And now he is...

VICTORY IS MINE!!!!

[B0rsuk]

In response to article:
freedom is for people who can use it.

[michael1977]

Ok my two sense for what it is worth.

This whole discussion about people not wanting choices and being overwhelmed by the myriad of choices they have with software in linux is such a stupid point.

For example, as people at least in the US (capitalists) we love choice and if we don't get a choice we whine about it. Take purchasing a car for instance. We have thousands of choices in regards to what kind of car and what features come with the car we choose, and that is the way we want it. Why would you argue that this does not carry through for computer software. If you believe that your a fool. Case in point there are, lets see at least 3 major mp3/media players for windows; Windows media player, itunes, realplayer, and then other media players winamp, nero etc. etc. Windows users choose and enjoy choosing which one of these they like the most, some even have all of them on windows, I did because each had something that worked better than the other, say nero for buning ISO files compared to windows media player's lack. So you see the too many choices is a foolish argument by someone who does not understand the nature of human behavior on a large scale.
Furthermore look at food products (soda for example) Pepsi, Coke, Diet, or caffiene free or diet caffiene free.
If consumer's are so turned off by choice and this causes some strange ingrained panic within the conusmer no one would go to the grocery store, no one would buy a car, and frankly no one would shop, use the internet, blah blah blah any number of examples regarding consumer choice not causing anxiety and difficulty for the consumer can be sited.
Choice is not the reason why linux failed or continues to fail. Linux has not failed, many people swith to linux all the time, if Linux had failed then this forum would not exist and I would not be typing this on a fully functional and choice ridden laptop (without a windows partition).
If someone wants to talk about the shortcomings with linux by all means do so that is how things are fixed and made better, but make sure that it makes some semblance of sense please.
The only failure of Linux is that Microsoft is a monopoly, and you cannot buy a computer at a local retailer with anything but windows installed on it. Until computer users can choose at point of sale what distrobution will be on their new computer Linux will have to win converts like myself the old fashoined way, by improving and being secure and user friendly, (with lots of choices)

[aysiu]

People love choice--they just want to make meaningful or informed choices.

These two links help the slew of otherwise meaningless distro names become more meaningful as choices:

http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/
http://www.distrowatch.com

[surfjdh]

All hail Ubuntu, the ease of XP, the security of Redhat, and the coolness of the fonz
i like that

[Bakerconspiracy]

Mostly, it has been a nice experience, but I still have a few complaints:


Enabling multiverse and universe ought to be much easier and more visible.


Just thought it would be funny to review this one :lol:

[karellen]

linux (and ubuntu) have come a long way, though I'm not sure the way it has to go for being mainstream (or even this is the final purpose/nirvana)...it performs well for me and that's enough, I really don't care about the average joe user who must be taught how to click or how to reinstall windows