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Mazehero55
November 13th, 2008, 01:47 AM
Anyone else see some new shots of Windows 7? Does anyone else notice how they oddly look something like KDE with some windows styling?

Especially the toolbar is extremely extremely KDEish. Notice the hide rectangle button on the right.
Several gadgets in the background as well

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d8/Windows7Desktop.png/800px-Windows7Desktop.png


Yet again Linux innovates and windows catches up, nobody notices...

Giant Speck
November 13th, 2008, 01:48 AM
I think they copied Aero. Oh wait! Aero was their thing! What was I thinking?

Grant A.
November 13th, 2008, 01:55 AM
Ah, so ideas can be stolen from Microsoft, but not the other way around? I think you don't deserve those Page Up/Down keys on your keyboard.

kevin11951
November 13th, 2008, 02:01 AM
Ah, so ideas can be stolen from Microsoft, but not the other way around? I think you don't deserve those Page Up/Down keys on your keyboard.

I'm going to guess that was a pun on Microsoft patenting the page up/down keys...

and you weren't serious, right?

Grant A.
November 13th, 2008, 02:03 AM
I'm going to guess that was a pun on Microsoft patenting the page up/down keys...

and you weren't serious, right?

Being able to read .wma, .bmp, .doc, and .wmv files sounds like stolen ideas to me. Let's not forget our friend WINE as well.

doorknob60
November 13th, 2008, 02:04 AM
The first thing I noticed when I saw my first Windows 7 screenie was "That looks like KDE!" Not sure if they're trying to copy it though, but who knows.

Grant A.
November 13th, 2008, 02:05 AM
The first thing I noticed when I saw my first Windows 7 screenie was "That looks like KDE!" Not sure if they're trying to copy it though, but who knows.

Keep in mind that KDE 3.5 copied Windows XP's window theme.

kevin11951
November 13th, 2008, 02:06 AM
The first thing I noticed when I saw my first Windows 7 screenie was "That looks like KDE!" Not sure if they're trying to copy it though, but who knows.

technically kde looks alot like windows, in fact its preferred by new users for that reason, so...

who is copying whom?

Grant A.
November 13th, 2008, 02:07 AM
technically kde looks alot like windows, in fact its preferred by new users for that reason, so...

who is copying whom?

Beat you to the punch again :D

kevin11951
November 13th, 2008, 02:07 AM
Keep in mind that KDE 3.5 copied Windows XP's window theme.

beat me to the punch!

kevin11951
November 13th, 2008, 02:08 AM
Beat you to the punch again :D

you beat me to the punch, by beating me to the punch!

Hyper Tails
November 13th, 2008, 02:10 AM
Aww man I though that wheel thing that everyone wanted was going to be there

it's looks better with it in there

but what I saw now is disapointing

tvtech
November 13th, 2008, 02:12 AM
Being able to read .wma, .bmp, .doc, and .wmv files sounds like stolen ideas to me. Let's not forget our friend WINE as well.


now now just because patent laws haven't caught up with the pace of software development doesn't mean we all can't get along and be friends.

Mazehero55
November 13th, 2008, 02:12 AM
accidental double post

lifestream
November 13th, 2008, 02:17 AM
Yes, yes, they did!! Look at that Ibex looking animal picture!! (brown wallpaper, Oryx)

How dare they use our horny friend :P

Meh, I have to agree the panel and the background gadgets look extremely KDEish. Have you seen their "new technology" that can show popup previews of your windows on your taskbar? I LOLed.

*shrug* Good for them. They patent all their stuff so others can't use it freely, but they feel welcome taking ideas from other OSses and selling those. I guess some things never change.

HOWEVER, I don't give a cr*p. I just feel sad for my friends who buy their software, but hey, it's their earned money, so they are free to do whatever they want :)

Mazehero55
November 13th, 2008, 02:22 AM
Wasn't KDE before Aero?

I don't see why you bring up file types, they don't have anything to do with stealing ideas... after all they are still owned by microsoft aren't they. So I don't see how it effects linux at all in the stealing ideas area because linux hasn't stolen those filetypes...
Even if third parties support those filetypes, they're support of a microsoft filetype.

All I'm saying is that Windows is starting to look like linux machines.
Why get so pissed about it?

tvtech
November 13th, 2008, 02:22 AM
The first time I saw microsoft windows 3.0 I thought the same thing about mac system 3.

Seriously though in an essential 2D graphical environment it's hard to get anything that is TOTALLY unique, especially seeing that the basic functionality has to be the same, it has to increase overall productivity at a reasonable cost to the end user. I know I know there are "3D" graphics but it's still displayed on a 2 dimensional surface. So in the end there really are only so many options that you can go with, Honestly I'm sorry windows has gone to a more.... mac style program listing, I liked how they had a standard start menu that was easy to navigate, that's one of the things I love about gnome. if you don't like it, edit it end of story! make it look how you want it to look. windows is a little more challenging, but... maybe they'll learn who knows.

binbash
November 13th, 2008, 02:23 AM
I tried windows 7 on one of my notebooks.It is BETTER than VISTA.But i still prefer good configured ubuntu box with compiz.

tvtech
November 13th, 2008, 02:26 AM
a lot of those "great graphical ideas" that kde sports and now gnome through compiz were inspired by mac aqua. sometimes we all need a little inspiration is all. I say change the patent laws so software can actually change at the pace it's meant to without law suites. ...... but... that's just me. either that or the fsf (http://www.fsf.org) needs to get on patenting every damn innovation they can think of before ms or apple does.

Giant Speck
November 13th, 2008, 02:33 AM
KDE may predate Aero, but Aero did not copy KDE. KDE was still in the 3.x series when Aero was first introduced. At that time, KDE 3.x looked nothing like Aero. In fact, the only way you could get KDE to look like Aero at that time was to use Compiz, which was released after Aero was introduced.

kevin11951
November 13th, 2008, 02:33 AM
a lot of those "great graphical ideas" that kde sports and now gnome through compiz were inspired by mac aqua. sometimes we all need a little inspiration is all. I say change the patent laws so software can actually change at the pace it's meant to without law suites. ...... but... that's just me. either that or the fsf (http://www.fsf.org) needs to get on patenting every damn innovation they can think of before ms or apple does.

i like the latter idea, at least so that mac and windows dont get all the rewards for everyone elses hard work!

YaroMan86
November 13th, 2008, 02:37 AM
You want to know the difference between Windows copying Linux and Linux copying Windows?

Linux actually acknowledges that it's copying Windows. Windows does not. Steals ideas and passes them off as their own? Yeah.

Lets face it, Windows Vista was copying from Mac OS X, Windows 7 is copying from Linux.

jimi_hendrix
November 13th, 2008, 02:42 AM
i like the windows 7 look better than vista...but i still like linux the best because i get 100% customization

jimi_hendrix
November 13th, 2008, 02:43 AM
You want to know the difference between Windows copying Linux and Linux copying Windows?

Linux actually acknowledges that it's copying Windows. Windows does not. Steals ideas and passes them off as their own? Yeah.

Lets face it, Windows Vista was copying from Mac OS X, Windows 7 is copying from Linux.

howd they copy from mac?

cardinals_fan
November 13th, 2008, 03:05 AM
You want to know the difference between Windows copying Linux and Linux copying Windows?

Linux actually acknowledges that it's copying Windows. Windows does not. Steals ideas and passes them off as their own? Yeah.

Lets face it, Windows Vista was copying from Mac OS X, Windows 7 is copying from Linux.
It's irrelevant in either case. I don't care about the egos of various OS fanboys (not meant to accuse anyone in this thread), I just use what works best.

kevin11951
November 13th, 2008, 03:10 AM
It's irrelevant in either case. I don't care about the egos of various OS fanboys (not meant to accuse anyone in this thread), I just use what works best.

which is?

Keyper7
November 13th, 2008, 03:12 AM
KDE may predate Aero, but Aero did not copy KDE. KDE was still in the 3.x series when Aero was first introduced. At that time, KDE 3.x looked nothing like Aero. In fact, the only way you could get KDE to look like Aero at that time was to use Compiz, which was released after Aero was introduced.

The first version of Compiz was released in the beginning of 2006 and Aero was released in the end of 2006 when Beryl was already widespread and popular. I remember that very well mostly because of the window thumbnails feature that was already in Beryl before Vista was released.

That said, lemme comment about this:


Have you seen their "new technology" that can show popup previews of your windows on your taskbar? I LOLed.

Let's be fair here. Window thumbnails were already available in Vista. The new feature is the fact that you can see a list of thumbnails belonging to the same window group. This is a new feature, as it's not done yet by neither Vista or Compiz.

athaki
November 13th, 2008, 03:13 AM
Hmm...and I was hoping windows 7 would be a replication of their success with vista. I still think I'll be an arrogant linux elitist though :popcorn:

cardinals_fan
November 13th, 2008, 03:14 AM
which is?
In my case, Slackware Linux with dwm. There's a different 'best' for everyone.

Arguing about which OS was first or which was more 'innovative' is meaningless.

Giant Speck
November 13th, 2008, 03:24 AM
The first version of Compiz was released in the beginning of 2006 and Aero was released in the end of 2006 when Beryl was already widespread and popular. I remember that very well mostly because of the window thumbnails feature that was already in Beryl before Vista was released.

Windows Aero was first introduced as part of Windows Vista Beta 1 (Public Build 5048), which was released in July 2005. There were previews of the Aero interface available in builds 4074, 4083 and 4093 under the name "Jade."

Compiz was released by Novell in January 2006, when Aero had already been available to try to the public for over six months.

I say this to argue the fact that Aero predates Compiz. Mind you, I am not claiming that Compiz stole from Aero. They may have gotten some ideas from Aero, but they did not steal from Aero.

I'm trying to reiterate the fact that Aero did not steal from Compiz as Compiz was not even released at the time of Aero's development.

bytor4232
November 13th, 2008, 04:03 AM
I thought the same thing. Microsoft doesn't inoovate, they replicate.

Hyper Tails
November 14th, 2008, 02:35 AM
I tried windows 7 on one of my notebooks.It is BETTER than VISTA.But i still prefer good configured ubuntu box with compiz.

Awesome:)

MellonCollie
November 14th, 2008, 02:49 AM
Especially the toolbar is extremely extremely KDEish. Notice the hide rectangle button on the right.

It's not a "hide" button, it's a show desktop button. You can see a pic of it in action in the final image on this page (http://www.istartedsomething.com/20081031/tidbits-about-the-new-superbar-taskbar/#more-3253), and a vid of it here (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CziHjb4tWFA).



Several gadgets in the background as well


You can do this in Vista by dragging sidebar gadgets onto the desktop and then hiding the sidebar.

Tomone
November 15th, 2008, 08:14 AM
Everybody takes from everybody. If it's a good idea and users like it, why wouldn't designers try to integrate it into their now interface unless they had something better? They'll either jack the design as it is or they'll build on the design to create something that they feel is better. It's kind of like the FOSS idea of building on the work of others to do more.
Everyone does it. If they didn't, we would have nothing.

Giant Speck
November 15th, 2008, 08:41 AM
Everybody takes from everybody. If it's a good idea and users like it, why wouldn't designers try to integrate it into their now interface unless they had something better? They'll either jack the design as it is or they'll build on the design to create something that they feel is better. It's kind of like the FOSS idea of building on the work of others to do more.
Everyone does it. If they didn't, we would have nothing.

That is a brilliant explanation of what is really happening.

The only problem with it is that many people don't see it that way. People think that because Microsoft does not produce open-source software, that anything Microsoft borrows from other software will become closed-source or patented. Basically, they feel that Microsoft should have no business borrowing from other operating systems because whatever they borrow will lose it's openness once it is integrated into Windows.

This may not be completely true and may not actually have any basis, but couple it with the rabid anti-Windows (or more generally, anti-Microsoft) fanaticism that flourishes within the Linux community, and it suddenly has justification. As long as Windows continues to borrow from other sources, people will always accuse Microsoft of stealing rather than borrowing.

Greyed
November 15th, 2008, 08:56 AM
No, the problem isn't that people are irrationally worried about Microsoft stifling competition once they get their grubby mitts on something. The problem is that people, like you, have forgotten or are too young to remember the fact that Microsoft has proven it will stifle competition. It has been a valid concern since 1992 where Microsoft was using its dominant position to force resellers to sell only their products. At the time it was Microsoft's standard reseller deal that all computers sold from a shop had to be charged for a license for Windows (3.0 or 3.1 back then, I forget exactly which) regardless of it actually being installed on the machine.

Furthermore I don't think it is a problem that they borrow from other sources. The problem is they don't want other sources borrowing from them. So whenever they do it we can, and should, call them on it since they are more than willing to litigate the pants off any competitor who does it to them. If they want to be so stingy about it we are only holding them to their own standards.

That's not bashing or anti-Microsoft fanaticism; that's simply playing by their rules. If you find those rules objectionable, then why aren't you faulting Microsoft for creating them in the first place?

inobe
November 15th, 2008, 10:02 AM
their tactics have not changed much, that said' i tend to avoid people that take advantage of me, that being the reason' i will not associate with them nor will i defend them,if i did' then i would be like them, thats called guilty by association :lolflag:

gn2
November 15th, 2008, 10:34 AM
As long as Windows continues to borrow from other sources, people will always accuse Microsoft of stealing rather than borrowing.

If I borrow your book and then sell it and keep the money and you don't get the book back or any of the money, I've stolen it.

If I borrow your book, copy it and give copies to my friends, then give the original book back to you I've not stolen it.

Only when Microsoft start distributing software freely will they cease being thieves.

Giant Speck
November 15th, 2008, 10:44 AM
If I borrow your book and then sell it and keep the money and you don't get the book back or any of the money, I've stolen it.

If I borrow your book, copy it and give copies to my friends, then give the original book back to you I've not stolen it.

Only when Microsoft start distributing software freely will they cease being thieves.

If you borrow my book and then sell it and keep the money and I don't get the book back or any of the money, you've stolen it.

If you borrow my book, copy it and give copies to your friends, and then give the book back to me, you've still stolen it.

I never told you to redistribute my book to other people. If I'm letting you borrow it, I'm letting you alone borrow it. I'm not letting your group of friends borrow it. It's especially worse if the book's materials are copyrighted. Then you've broken the law by copying and redistributing the book without the written consent of the author or publisher.

Bottom line: You may have a point, and whether or not your point is correct, your analogy does not correctly express it.

gn2
November 15th, 2008, 10:50 AM
If you borrow my book, copy it and give copies to your friends, and then give the book back to me, you've still stolen it.

Only if you wrote the book yourself and copyrighted it.

What MS does is to take other peoples ideas and profit from them, that's theft in my book.

CholericKoala
November 15th, 2008, 10:56 AM
If microsoft is a better marketer than all the other OS's, good for them, let capitalism reign. Linux has its place and apple lost their chance long ago with crappy marketing. Its just business, it's amoral, so if one company can copy another and make a ton more money from the idea, good for them, do what you want.

qazwsx
November 15th, 2008, 11:03 AM
It really looks like plasma shell with glassy theme. very close indeed.

Take a look at this.


http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Glassified?content=81388

Giant Speck
November 15th, 2008, 11:05 AM
It really looks like plasma shell with glassy theme. very close indeed.

Take a look at this.


http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Glassified?content=81388

That's funny, because that sort of looks like Aero.

Windows 7 looks like Aero, too.

Hmmmmmm... :-k

karellen
November 15th, 2008, 11:05 AM
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=962382&page=10

qazwsx
November 15th, 2008, 12:06 PM
That's funny, because that sort of looks like Aero.

Windows 7 looks like Aero, too.

Hmmmmmm... :-k

I don't see it. :)

Ub1476
November 15th, 2008, 12:27 PM
Let's be fair here. Window thumbnails were already available in Vista. The new feature is the fact that you can see a list of thumbnails belonging to the same window group. This is a new feature, as it's not done yet by neither Vista or Compiz.

I think Cairo-dock has this feature.

black3ug
November 15th, 2008, 12:46 PM
the problem here is that windows doesn't like it when others copy/improve on what they've done and they have the gall to follow or implement features (or improvements on windows ideas) from others while claiming such innovations for their own. AND charge exorbitant prices for them!

It's like this: a child gives another child a broken but still functional toy. The other child repairs the toy and makes it even better. The first child takes away the toy, claims it for his own and kicks the second child on the head.

Or: it's like how 'giant speck' copied the main ingredients of the ubuntu icon and superimposed the windows logo and windows coloring scheme on it. the only missing ingredient is him claiming it for himself. :lolflag:

...just kidding! :)