Why is ubuntu.com rife with bad grammar?

[pytheas22]

Various parts of Ubuntu's website are a grammatical disaster. I think that the problems with the site should be obvious enough to anyone who's looked it over thoroughly, but I can provide specific examples if necessary.

I understand that not everyone who creates the content for the site is a native speaker of English, and that some of the errors might be typos more than grammatical oversights (although typos in a sense are worse, because they show that no one even bothered to proofread). But I think that the poor writing reflects very badly on the operating system that ubuntu.com is supposed to promote, and I would very much like to see the issues corrected.

People subconsciously judge others based on their linguistic practices, and failure to adhere to recognized conventions of proper English (even if those conventions are arbitrary) can make someone seem quite unintelligent and untrustworthy. It's hard to take Ubuntu seriously as an operating system when its promoters can't seem to spell or conjugate verbs correctly.

I'm wondering how many other people are bothered by this, and how we could go about fixing it. Thoughts?

[lisati]

Any examples?

Some posts on these forums seem to be influenced by the abbreviated lingo of text messages on cellphones...they irk me but shouldn't stop us trying to be helpful.

[zmjjmz]

Could you post the specific blotches of text that you've found to have bad grammar?

[loell]

i'm not a native english speaker, and anything syllably readable is fine by me. ;)

god, "syllably" isn't even a word. :D

[tuxsheadache]

I am normally okay at typing, if you ever see a post which has been edited by me it's normally due to incorrect grammar useage.
I am pleased to say I know not to spell grammar with an "e" in it.

Edit: I ended up talking about the forums. Although it looks like I can sometimes use correct grammar it seems I can't read, shame that.

[lisati]

Different countries have different idioms and different conventions for spelling: it sometimes amuses me to watch American TV shows where the dialogue has someone threatening to kick someone else's donkey.

[kernelhaxor]

Yes, links would be nice. I wouldn't say I hav extensively browsed Ubuntu.com but I do have visited quite a few main pages. I didn't find anything grammatically wrong.

[Mr. Picklesworth]

The site really needs a "report problems" or "propose changes" button, at least for individuals who are a member of a particular Launchpad team. It should tie more closely to a wiki like fedoraproject.org.

As it is, Ubuntu.com feels a bit detached from the Ubuntu ethos. The site has outdated screenshots, old information and typos that I am yearning to correct but I can't be bothered to because the method of doing that is totally indirect. If it was a moderated wiki, or at least had a straight path to contributing fixes, I (and I am sure many others) would have a lot of fixes ready to be applied.

Not that there isn't an Ubuntu website mailing list (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-website) and team, of course :)

[pytheas22]

Actually, I may need to retract my complaints a bit. I would swear that there used to be some major problems (this is an issue that I had been meaning to raise on the forums for some time), and I did find some, but they may not justify criticism of the site as 'rife with bad grammar'. Nonetheless, here are a few examples:

1. from http://ubuntu.com:


Ubuntu is a community developed, Linux-based operating system that is perfect for laptops, desktops and servers

If 'Linux-based' is hyphenated, you should also hyphenate 'community-developed' as well...not a huge problem, but it definitely stands out to me. Hyphenation is inconsistent throughout the rest of the site, too.

2. from http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/810features/


This tour will help you discover this for your self.

3. from http://www.ubuntu.com/support/communitysupport:



Ubuntu development, support, and discussion continually takes place within our IRC channel and mailing lists

'Ubuntu development, support, and discussion' = plural, so the verb should be plural, but 'takes' is singular.

None of these problems is huge, but they occur on widely-read parts of the site and look quite unprofessional.

Mr. Picklesworth: you make a good point regarding other parts of the site's contents being outdated or awkward. It certainly would be nice if users could more directly modify the site in order to keep it up-to-date and ensure that it better conforms with modern Ubuntu.

[zmjjmz]

None of these problems is huge, but they occur on widely-read parts of the site and look quite unprofessional.

It should be "None of these problems are huge"
Yeah, some of that looks a bit like really minor stuff you would see if a writer was tired or something. Not really major.

[pytheas22]

It should be "None of these problems are huge"

That's what most people say informally, but I've always been taught (in the United States) that since 'none' is technically singular, 'is' is correct. But because the other usage is so popular colloquially, I think it's hard to come to a consensus here.

See for example here (http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2007/Dec/30/none-is-or-none-are-it-depends/).


Yeah, some of that looks a bit like really minor stuff you would see if a writer was tired or something. Not really major.

I agree, but this isn't a personal blog or something; it's a professional site and should have its errors corrected.

[lisati]

It should be "None of these problems are huge"
Yeah, some of that looks a bit like really minor stuff you would see if a writer was tired or something. Not really major.

Or how about this: if "none" = "not one" then wouldn't "is" be correct?

[zmjjmz]

I always thought that none was plural because 0 is plural.

[iponeverything]

Before we tackle bad grammar, lets address the socks with sandals problem.

[pbpersson]

I am just glad to see that someone on the planet still knows how to correctly construct sentences in English. With some of the things I have been reading recently on other sites, I was beginning to think it was a lost art. ;)

[handy]

That's what most people say informally, but I've always been taught (in the United States) that since 'none' is technically singular, 'is' is correct. But because the other usage is so popular colloquially, I think it's hard to come to a consensus here.

See for example here (http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2007/Dec/30/none-is-or-none-are-it-depends/).


I agree, but this isn't a personal blog or something; it's a professional site and should have its errors corrected.


I am just glad to see that someone on the planet still knows how to correctly construct sentences in English. With some of the things I have been reading recently on other sites, I was beginning to think it was a lost art. ;)

I think that you two should start a team that goes through & corrects all reported grammar/spelling problems displayed online under the Ubuntu banner.

Not many of us have been endowed with the education/skills required.

[tuxsheadache]

I tip my hat off to your exquisite knowledge off the English Language, you would make make English teacher proud, and slightly worried into how much knowledge I actually soaked up.

[benhur99ph]

It might be that the people at Ubuntu.com are probably too busy doing work on our favorite distro that they haven't got the chance to proofread the stuff that they put on the website. Hehe... since it's opensource I think if we saw some stuff that are wrong, it wouldn't be a problem if we notify them right?

The website has the "Contact Us" (http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/contactus) link and there is a Web feedback section with links to the email of the webmaster. We can report this stuff to them.

[pytheas22]

Before we tackle bad grammar, lets address the socks with sandals problem.

I'm wearing them now. But I do have the decency to make sure that only my roommates get to see me like that, not the general public.


The website has the "Contact Us" link and there is a Web feedback section with links to the email of the webmaster. We can report this stuff to them.

Good point; that's certainly worth a try.


I tip my hat off to your exquisite knowledge off the English Language, you would make make English teacher proud, and slightly worried into how much knowledge I actually soaked up.


I am just glad to see that someone on the planet still knows how to correctly construct sentences in English. With some of the things I have been reading recently on other sites, I was beginning to think it was a lost art.

Mostly I know these things because I'm a graduate student and consequently spend all day writing about Old-Regime France in the hope that I might some day get an article published in a journal read only by other people with nothing better to do than complain about grammatical heterodoxies. If you don't have such a precise command of English grammar, I'm sure it's only because you've devoted your life to something more worthwhile than early-modern European history :)

[itsStephen]

I'm wondering how many other people are bothered by this, and how we could go about fixing it. Thoughts?

It doesn't bother me at all, although I do think the site should be proofread.

[KiwiNZ]

it is not an English test :rolleyes:

[poebae]

it is not an English test :rolleyes:
Yes, but the website is directly representative of the operating system that shares its name, and little things like grammatical errors could turn someone off giving it a try. If you were a prospective employer, you'd have second thoughts about hiring someone who had such mistakes on their resume/CV, would you not?

As ridiculous as that might sound, there's greater harm than most people realise in perpetuating the myth that "because anything Linux is free, it mustn't be of a professional standard".

Try to tell me with a straight face that you wouldn't have simply skipped over my post if I wUz TyPInG LyK disZ~~!!

First impressions last.

Besides, it wouldn't take that much work to correct such things, so I'm all for a crack team of logophiles perusing the website and weeding out any imperfections.

[ratmandall]

Yes, but the website is directly representative of the operating system that shares its name, and little things like grammatical errors could turn someone off giving it a try. If you were a prospective employer, you'd have second thoughts about hiring someone who had such mistakes on their resume/CV, would you not?

As ridiculous as that might sound, there's greater harm than most people realise in perpetuating the myth that "because anything Linux is free, it mustn't be of a professional standard".

Try to tell me with a straight face that you wouldn't have simply skipped over my post if I wUz TyPInG LyK disZ~~!!

First impressions last.

Besides, it wouldn't take that much work to correct such things, so I'm all for a crack team of logophiles perusing the website and weeding out any imperfections.

Not everyone that uses Ubuntu and linux in general come from English speaking backgrounds, quite a few of people that use Ubuntu come from Germany, Brazil, India, some Asian countries.

[stinger30au]

Any examples?.

wot r u sayink???

wees dont nows what wees typung or sumfink???

sum tymes me fungirs push da rong buttons ya now


and me spellink checka is bruk to ya now

gees gives me a brek huh??
:lolflag:

[poebae]

Not everyone that uses Ubuntu and linux in general come from English speaking backgrounds, quite a few of people that use Ubuntu come from Germany, Brazil, India, some Asian countries.
That's not a valid reason not to have good grammar on the website.

The last time I checked, the potential Ubuntu userbase for English-speaking users was in the billions and growing, which isn't something you can discount by saying "The whole world doesn't speak English, you know".

[lisati]

wot r u sayink???

wees dont nows what wees typung or sumfink???

sum tymes me fungirs push da rong buttons ya now


and me spellink checka is bruk to ya now

gees gives me a brek huh??
:lolflag:

no disrespect intended to my fellow countrymen who have contributed to this thread, but please excuse me while I go and play with my pet sheep.

[benhur99ph]

That's not a valid reason not to have good grammar on the website.

The last time I checked, the potential Ubuntu userbase for English-speaking users was in the billions and growing, which isn't something you can discount by saying "The whole world doesn't speak English, you know".

I agree. That's why we should try and report this stuff to the webmaster. I'm sure they can find a way to fix this. If they are too busy to do so then they can just ask the community to help with pointing out the errors and how to fix it. I'll try doing it in my spare time this week. Anyone who's got free time in their hands, I ask you to do the same.

[gn2]

None of the examples in post 9 in any way detract from the meaning which the writer intended to convey, or in any way introduce anything which could be construed as an error likely to cause confusion or misunderstanding on the part of anyone who happened to browse to the ubuntu.com website in the hope of finding some useful information.

[billgoldberg]

It should be "None of these problems are huge"
Yeah, some of that looks a bit like really minor stuff you would see if a writer was tired or something. Not really major.

lol

The pot blaming the kettle. :p

[mentallaxative]

Yes, but the website is directly representative of the operating system that shares its name, and little things like grammatical errors could turn someone off giving it a try. If you were a prospective employer, you'd have second thoughts about hiring someone who had such mistakes on their resume/CV, would you not?


If somebody loses interest in trying a new operating system over grammatical errors on the web site, I'd say they are looking for faults in the wrong place.

I hope the OP has notified whoever is in charge.

[billgoldberg]

If somebody loses interest in trying a new operating system over grammatical errors on the web site, I'd say they are looking for faults in the wrong place.

I hope the OP has notified whoever is in charge.

Still, the main site should have those kind of errors, it's bad for it's image.

[Capt. Mac]

If somebody loses interest in trying a new operating system over grammatical errors on the web site, I'd say they are looking for faults in the wrong place.

If I'm looking for a website to shop online, I will be turned away if the website looks unprofessional. Although you aren't paying money for Ubuntu, it's the same concept; if the website looks bad, one might assume that it's just not worth their time and look elsewhere for a solution to their needs.

[tuxsheadache]

Research has actually found that if a website takes longer than 3 or 4 seconds to load the majority of people will go elsewhere. If people can be so fickle over a few seconds then errors on a website that represents a whole OS to them may be equally as bad.

[JohnFH]

Still, the main site should have those kind of errors, it's bad for it's image.

It should? Really? You've done it again haven't you? ;) Have you got a fear of using the word 'not' in your sentences? ;)

[saffagirl]

Hmmm, interesting ideas about the bad grammar being corrected.

However, we then call into question which English standard use. Since it's South African , I'd vote South African English (not too far off UK English- I am a South African living in the UK ;)). I think a lot of those mistakes are funamentally to do with the writer's English usage and nothing more....but I do seriously find there are differences in different English standards and this could account for some of the "mistakes".

[mips]

It should? Really? You've done it again haven't you? ;) Have you got a fear of using the word 'not' in your sentences? ;)

lol, oops I did it again!

He obviously does not like the word 'not' :)

[Sef]

This forum tends to use descriptive English rather than prescriptive English. Hence a lot of mistakes are not really mistakes but just reflect the way people talk and write.

Descriptive English - How it is used - spoken and written - by native speakers.

Prescriptive English - The formal rules which states how English "should be" used - spokean and written - by native speakers.

Very few native speakers of any language use it prescriptively; they almost all use it descriptively.

[mentallaxative]

I think the whole forum community also needs to improve their grammar and spelling, otherwise someone might ask for support here and become dismayed at the appalling standard of English; just look in this thread alone for some ideas. Anyone who has written split infinitives or run-on sentences or started sentences with "but", "because" or "and"; or confused their apostrophes, commas, semi-colons, colons and dashes; or mixed there/their/they're and you're/your or even dared to use a single word of slang should be banned. The forum moderators will turn into grammar nazis and every time we log onto the forums we shall all swear solemnly that we shall not besmirch the name of Ubuntu with corruptions of the English tongue--with our hand placed on a copy of "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" or the nearest dictionary. The last thing we want is for new users to think that Ubuntu users are a bunch of uneducated geeks because that translates directly to a poor and bug-riddled operating system. Every time you make a grammar or spelling mistake, God kills a potential Ubuntu user.

(A humorous exaggeration--don't burn me at the stake for it. I got a laugh from writing this. :) )

[poebae]

If somebody loses interest in trying a new operating system over grammatical errors on the web site, I'd say they are looking for faults in the wrong place.

I hope the OP has notified whoever is in charge.

If I'm looking for a website to shop online, I will be turned away if the website looks unprofessional. Although you aren't paying money for Ubuntu, it's the same concept; if the website looks bad, one might assume that it's just not worth their time and look elsewhere for a solution to their needs.

Thanks Capt. Mac.

mentallaxative: As I elaborated in the paragraph that you snipped out, it's not a matter of a single issue such as grammatical errors turning people away; rather it's a matter of maintaining an image of professionalism, and having a properly maintained website can go a long way towards achieving that.

Linux has enough trouble trying to shed the reputation of "just a hack-job put together by unemployed basement-dwellers", and an unprofessional website only contributes to that.

[mentallaxative]

Thanks Capt. Mac.

mentallaxative: As I elaborated in the paragraph that you snipped out, it's not a matter of a single issue such as grammatical errors turning people away; rather it's a matter of maintaining an image of professionalism, and having a properly maintained website can go a long way towards achieving that.

So what other types of errors does the website have that need to fixing? If there aren't any others, then it really is a single issue of grammatical errors.

[gn2]

(A humorous exaggeration--don't burn me at the stake for it. I got a laugh from writing this. :) )

And eye got a laff reeding it :lolflag:

[kevdog]

Thank goodness someone still holds up the old rules of proper written English. A dying art!

[gn2]

Thank goodness someone still holds up the old rules of proper written English. A dying art!

It's not dying, it's evolving.

English as it is written now has changed from how it was written in the past.

[kevdog]

Proper grammer and punctuation is not an evolving art. Neither is the use of plurals or proper conjugation. The use of expressions may be continually evolving, but basic puntuation/conjugation is the backbone.

[gn2]

Proper grammer and punctuation is not an evolving art.

Are you sure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation#History)?

[tuxsheadache]

Proper grammer and punctuation is not an evolving art. Neither is the use of plurals or proper conjugation. The use of expressions may be continually evolving, but basic puntuation/conjugation is the backbone.

I did a whole module about language change at A2 Level. Language changes over time, as does grammar, and punctuation.
Do you always write telephone? Or 'phone? Or phone?
All three are correct in their own way.
It's the most interesting part of English I studied, how it changes all the time. In my exam I had to do a history of a word, and explained the term of being "owned" on the Internet, and then how people have changed it to "pwned" as well.