Spoiled

[eternalnewbee]

Hi everyone.
I've had this urge to speak my mind for a while now.
There's been a lot of negativity around here for the last couple of weeks. people arguing, complaining, and making demands.
So I feel it's important to add a positive voice. Ubuntu, with all it's imperfection, has been a bless for me ever since I decided to take the plunge and use it full time.
I'm talking about the philosophy of the creators, the layout of the desktop, and the generous community.
There will always be issues, especially with all the new users around the block. But let's not forget what makes Ubuntu special:
Open Source. You're not restricted by ownership issues
Security. Never needed an anti-virus program.
Advanced desktop features. Compiz-fusion makes my user experience a joy.
Customization. So many options to change the look & feel of the desktop. Think about the panel features, Main Menu, Add/Remove Applications, available packages in Synaptic, language option to change into for example Thai for the whole interface! Same option is available in open office. This was impossible to do in my old os. I have to go to work now, so please help me by adding your positive voice, so we can spread the love. Live long & prosper):P

[eternalnewbee]

Appreciate your thanks a lot Joeb454!
I really feel like a little boy, almost always getting what I want! with Ubuntu, and the help of the Community.

[smoker]

Hi everyone.
I've had this urge to speak my mind for a while now.
There's been a lot of negativity around here for the last couple of weeks. people arguing, complaining, and making demands...

i see it, but don't think it is just on the forum, seems to be a general malaise that creeps through society at this time of year (at least where i live). i blame the approach of stress inducing consumerist Christmas and the cold and dark days and nights :confused:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_affective_disorder

of course, that doesn't apply in other parts of the world, so maybe some people just like to complain!

apart from that, yes, ubuntu and open source is great, and should be appreciated more :)

[FuturePilot]

I'd have to agree. Despite some of the bugs and stuff I still find it incredible that you get all this stuff for $0 along with the source too! What's also incredible is that a lot of people contribute stuff voluntarily in their spare time without any pay or anything just because of their passion for Linux, programming or whatever.

[infinitejones]

a lot of people contribute stuff voluntarily in their spare time without any pay or anything

This is the main issue here - a lot of people who are trying to make the transition from Windows to Ubuntu just don't know this.

They're not coming to Ubuntu because they love open source etc etc, they're coming because they're fed up of paying for Windows. Or maybe they're sick of viruses, trojans etc and they've heard Linux doesn't have those. Or they're finding it increasingly hard to get hold of functional pirate/cracked copies on Windows. (And I'll be honest here - that's why I came to Ubuntu three years ago!)

So, all these casual Windows users hear all these fantastic things about Ubuntu, and best of all - IT'S COMPLETELY FREE!! Woo-hoo! However, they don't stop to think about why it's free and what the consequences are and, to be fair, maybe we (the Ubuntu or larger Linux community) don't explain it to them clearly enough.

They've been used to Windows "Just Working". They bought a laptop with Windows installed, and it Just Works. They don't stop to think that part of the cost of the laptop is the licence fee for Windows, the vast majority of which has been developed by paid developers because that's their job, and which has been tested by Microsoft and/or the people who provide (for example) graphics drivers, because even they know that they have to make most things work if they're going to charge people money for them. So part of what they paid is the premium for making sure It All Just Works.

They download Ubuntu, free of charge, install it, and things don't work. Everything they've heard about Ubuntu must be rubbish - Windows Just Works so why doesn't Ubuntu?

They know something about these forums where everyone helps each other, so they find one, and they're too concerned with making this stupid Ubuntu thing work to do a bit of reading to find out how to explain their problems in a way which will make people want to help them. Maybe they're young and have never done this before. Maybe English isn't their first language.

So we get badly worded questions with a bit of attitude, asking questions which have already been answered several times.

How do we fix it? I don't know. Education, maybe? Make it clear that the thousands of components that make up Ubuntu are (mostly) written for free by people do it in their spare time for the love of it so it might not all work first time. However, that doesn't help Ubuntu from a marketing point of view.

Maybe patience. I've answered a few questions on here recently with a simple one-liner: Google is your friend, followed by a link to a Google search which took me 5 seconds and came up with 10 useful-looking links that would probably give you the answer if you click them. I'd like to think that once the person has seen that 90% of problems can be solved by a bit of judicious Googling, they'll be in a much better position to fix their own problems in future. Personally I love that aspect of using Ubuntu - very satisfying!

[eternalnewbee]

This is the main issue here - a lot of people who are trying to make the transition from Windows to Ubuntu just don't know this.

They're not coming to Ubuntu because they love open source etc etc, they're coming because they're fed up of paying for Windows. Or maybe they're sick of viruses, trojans etc and they've heard Linux doesn't have those. Or they're finding it increasingly hard to get hold of functional pirate/cracked copies on Windows. (And I'll be honest here - that's why I came to Ubuntu three years ago!)

So, all these casual Windows users hear all these fantastic things about Ubuntu, and best of all - IT'S COMPLETELY FREE!! Woo-hoo! However, they don't stop to think about why it's free and what the consequences are and, to be fair, maybe we (the Ubuntu or larger Linux community) don't explain it to them clearly enough.

They've been used to Windows "Just Working". They bought a laptop with Windows installed, and it Just Works. They don't stop to think that part of the cost of the laptop is the licence fee for Windows, the vast majority of which has been developed by paid developers because that's their job, and which has been tested by Microsoft and/or the people who provide (for example) graphics drivers, because even they know that they have to make most things work if they're going to charge people money for them. So part of what they paid is the premium for making sure It All Just Works.

They download Ubuntu, free of charge, install it, and things don't work. Everything they've heard about Ubuntu must be rubbish - Windows Just Works so why doesn't Ubuntu?

They know something about these forums where everyone helps each other, so they find one, and they're too concerned with making this stupid Ubuntu thing work to do a bit of reading to find out how to explain their problems in a way which will make people want to help them. Maybe they're young and have never done this before. Maybe English isn't their first language.

So we get badly worded questions with a bit of attitude, asking questions which have already been answered several times.

How do we fix it? I don't know. Education, maybe? Make it clear that the thousands of components that make up Ubuntu are (mostly) written for free by people do it in their spare time for the love of it so it might not all work first time. However, that doesn't help Ubuntu from a marketing point of view.
Maybe patience. I've answered a few questions on here recently with a simple one-liner: Google is your friend, followed by a link to a Google search which took me 5 seconds and came up with 10 useful-looking links that would probably give you the answer if you click them. I'd like to think that once the person has seen that 90% of problems can be solved by a bit of judicious Googling, they'll be in a much better position to fix their own problems in future. Personally I love that aspect of using Ubuntu - very satisfying!
Agreed.
How about this? Someone wants to try Ubuntu, so he/she goes to www.ubuntu.com to download, say Intrepid Ibex. There's a banner, next to the download link which says something like: Interested in Ubuntu? Check this out first. And the person in question clicks on it, and is taken to site with tutorials, written tutorials, screenshots, and videos.
I'm sure a lot of folks here could & would take some time out to put in some effort to achieve this. (I'm feeling spoiled right now)
Where's Mazza when you need him?[-o<

[billgoldberg]

How about this? Someone wants to try Ubuntu, so he/she goes to www.ubuntu.com to download, say Intrepid Ibex. There's a banner, next to the download link which saya something like: Interested in Ubuntu? Check this out first. And the person in question clicks on it, and is taken to site with tutorials, written tutorials, screenshots, and videos.
I'm sure a lot of folks here could & would take some time out to put in some effort to achieve this. (I'm feeling spoiled right now)
Where's Mazza when you need him?[-o<

The wiki already has tutorials for most things.

--

I agree with earlier comments that most questions on ABT can be answered by a 5 second google search.

[crazyfuturamanoob]

Ubuntu is best OS ever. And compiz-fusion makes it even better.

When installing updates that require reboot, it doesn't show pop-ups about
reboot. I will restart my computer when I want, not when ubuntu wants. :)

[blakjesus]

I completely agree. Ubuntu has spoiled me. Instead of fighting with my operating system to do what i want, my operating system stays out of the way and does exactly what i want it to. Ever since i started using Ubuntu i felt more like the computer mine and not limited by what some company wants me to do with it. :mrgreen:

I thank the Ubuntu developers for finally getting me to switch to Gnu/Linux. =D>

[eternalnewbee]

i'd have to agree. Despite some of the bugs and stuff i still find it incredible that you get all this stuff for $0 along with the source too! What's also incredible is that a lot of people contribute stuff voluntarily in their spare time without any pay or anything just because of their passion for linux, programming or whatever.
+1

[igknighted]

I very much agree with the OP, and the post by infinitejones as well. I almost think that on ubuntu.com there should be a checklist you have to go through to download the ISO, with the download being the last step. Too many people just don't know where to look for help or anything about the system, and that is a recipe for disaster. For the new users, and those of us supporting them. So yeah, it might be an annoyance to click through some intro screen to get the ISO, but I feel like the people who will get scared off by that probably would be the ones not likely to succeed anyways, so it saves them and us a lot of trouble (and for those coming with the right attitude, it guides them to the right location for answers.

Another thing that might be a good idea would be to have that intro/tutorial before you get to the desktop upon booting the liveCD. This way you can't miss it. And on top of that, there could be a kernel option to disable it for advanced users just upgrading or using the liveCD to fix things to avoid annoyance.

[Bruce M.]

I'm talking about the philosophy of the creators, the layout of the desktop, and the generous community.

I couldn't have said it better myself. And the title is perfect: Spoiled! That's me spoiled to a "T", or should I say to a "U".

Linux is great, and Ubuntu has made it w win-win situation. A year and a half ago W2K crashed and told me my drive was "dead". And I'm still using that drive with Ubuntu.

As someone said: I feel like my computer is mine again, not the OS's. Sure certain parts belong to the OS (root), but that's a given, it stays out of the way and lets me do what I want. At other time it allows me to "modify" something for my needs (sudo).

I had a chance to get linux back in 97 or 98 but was just to dependant on Windows at the time to put a command line linux on my system. Looking back, with what I know today, I'd have a say that was probably my biggest computer error of all times. I was dependent because I didn't know any better. Heck I'd still be using DOS if it was supported, well maybe not now. :)

Thank You UBUNTU!
Bruce

[eternalnewbee]

i very much agree with the op, and the post by infinitejones as well. I almost think that on ubuntu.com there should be a checklist you have to go through to download the iso, with the download being the last step. Too many people just don't know where to look for help or anything about the system, and that is a recipe for disaster. For the new users, and those of us supporting them. So yeah, it might be an annoyance to click through some intro screen to get the iso, but i feel like the people who will get scared off by that probably would be the ones not likely to succeed anyways, so it saves them and us a lot of trouble (and for those coming with the right attitude, it guides them to the right location for answers.
+1

[eternalnewbee]

I'd have to agree. Despite some of the bugs and stuff I still find it incredible that you get all this stuff for $0 along with the source too! What's also incredible is that a lot of people contribute stuff voluntarily in their spare time without any pay or anything just because of their passion for Linux, programming or whatever.
Thanks for making your voice heard. Appreciate it.

[eternalnewbee]

Ubuntu is best OS ever. And compiz-fusion makes it even better.
If you're talking about support. Hell yes!

[darrenn]

eternalnewbee

I have been on these forums for several years now and I have to tell you things are way better than they used to be. You have no idea how bad things have been here. But thanks to the mods things have improved. Getting rid of omgpp was an excellent example of this. I would almost call this forum drama free.

[wolfen69]

They've been used to Windows "Just Working".

windows does not "just work". if it did, i would not have a job.

[solitaire]

Think it's more like "if you repeat a lie long enough ot people, it becomes the truth."

Like "Windows is more stable", "Works with more devices", "Secure" etc... etc...

People get bombarded with the Microsoft adverts every day and cause it's every where they think it's the truth.

Just because something is popular does not make it good (i.e. Alcohol, Cigarettes & Caffeine)...

[igknighted]

windows does not "just work". if it did, i would not have a job.

+1

This is an important point that many people miss. Windows "just works" because OEMs install all the software people need for DVDs, MP3s, etc., as well as providing hardware with stable drivers that work with the OS.

If the roles were reversed and Linux (any variety, really) was preinstalled and everyone tried to install windows with no knowledge, there would be (in my opinion) WAY more issues.


Just because something is popular does not make it good (i.e. Alcohol, Cigarettes & Caffeine)...

What do you have against alcohol and caffeine :P That's what liver transplants are for. Besides, doctors need to make a living too.

[lukjad]

*Uses super ninja powers to convey agreement with OP.*
http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/224_animated_ninja_disappearing.gif

[Tamlynmac]

Just My Humble Opinion:

One issue to consider is the potential expectations of Windows users to visualize Ubuntu as a Windows clone. Most Ubuntu users tend to be free spirits that are secure in making modifications to improve their systems functionality or to personalize. Most of these changes require fundamental knowledge of the OS. Should Windows users wish to migrate to Ubuntu a basic change in philosophy must be implied immediately. To many times, new users get frustrated and bash the OS based on their experience with Windows and the expectations (baggage) associated. I believe a disclaimer needs to be added to the installation disk that specifically states “Ubuntu is not Windows and an investment in time (and potentially new hardware) will be required”. Until Ubuntu addresses this issue, continuation of frustration and failure will impact the way it's viewed. This must be done if the intent is to improve the initial experience and promote long term success migrating Windows users.

We should keep in mind when enlightening others of the benefits of Ubuntu, that a learning curve is mandatory and some hardware restrictions do apply. Caution should be considered when making statements that Ubuntu can meet all their expectations or how the new OS might benefit them.

[eternalnewbee]

I have been on these forums for several years now and I have to tell you things are way better than they used to be. You have no idea how bad things have been here. But thanks to the mods things have improved. Getting rid of omgpp was an excellent example of this. I would almost call this forum drama free.
Hi darrenn.
Unfotunately I didn't start coming to the forums until a few months ago although I also became a member in 2005 (under a different name), so I can't judge about that. About the forums being almost drama free. You're kidding right? Sometimes it really feels like walking in a busy chaotic market:biggrin:

[eternalnewbee]

Just My Humble Opinion:

One issue to consider is the potential expectations of Windows users to visualize Ubuntu as a Windows clone. Most Ubuntu users tend to be free spirits that are secure in making modifications to improve their systems functionality or to personalize. Most of these changes require fundamental knowledge of the OS. Should Windows users wish to migrate to Ubuntu a basic change in philosophy must be implied immediately. To many times, new users get frustrated and bash the OS based on their experience with Windows and the expectations (baggage) associated. I believe a disclaimer needs to be added to the installation disk that specifically states “Ubuntu is not Windows and an investment in time (and potentially new hardware) will be required”. Until Ubuntu addresses this issue, continuation of frustration and failure will impact the way it's viewed. This must be done if the intent is to improve the initial experience and promote long term success migrating Windows users.

We should keep in mind when enlightening others of the benefits of Ubuntu, that a learning curve is mandatory and some hardware restrictions do apply. Caution should be considered when making statements that Ubuntu can meet all their expectations or how the new OS might benefit them.
I agree, eventhough I have to say my experience has not been through reading (at least not extesive reading) but through doing, breaking my system and starting over again (several times). And since a couple of months when I discovered the magic on these forums.

[darrenn]

About the forums being almost drama free. You're kidding right? Sometimes it really feels like walking in a busy chaotic market

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I can't be bothered to find examples to backup what I said about this forum.

[Tamlynmac]

You obviously are one of the exceptions. Most Windows users I know are terrified to "break their system" and normally would experience significant anxiety at the very thought.

Similar to you, I find the "hands on" methodology much more rewarding. It tends to assist in my retention and comprehension of the subject.

However, I still believe Ubuntu should advise users prior to installation that it requires an effort (learning) and it may require hardware substitutions based on compatibility. Again that is simply MHO that probably isn't shared by many.

[eternalnewbee]

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I can't be bothered to find examples to backup what I said about this forum.
Fair enough.

[eternalnewbee]

You obviously are one of the exceptions. Most Windows users I know are terrified to "break their system" and normally would experience significant anxiety at the very thought.

Similar to you, I find the "hands on" methodology much more rewarding. It tends to assist in my retention and comprehension of the subject.

However, I still believe Ubuntu should advise users prior to installation that it requires an effort (learning) and it may require hardware substitutions based on compatibility. Again that is simply MHO that probably isn't shared by many.
Why thanks, although I hope there are more than just a few exceptions. Maybe an idea for a new thread: Are you an exception?):P

[eternalnewbee]

Quote:
Just because something is popular does not make it good (i.e. Alcohol, Cigarettes & Caffeine)...
What do you have against alcohol and caffeine :P That's what liver transplants are for. Besides, doctors need to make a living too.
That reminds me of All in the family

[hsweet]

One thing about the just working bit. It's been said before, but most normal people buy computers with an os already installed. It might work badly (vista) or well (mac) but it's there already.

It's quite a step up for average computer users to install an os. Scary and dangerous. Even for me and I've done it dozens of times at least. What if it don't work?

I am very positive about linux and ubuntu. There is no comparison to Windows anything. It's not perfect, but it's free, the interface is very workable, no malware, more reliable, no DRM, and I control my computer, not some corporation with very different goals and needs than me.

That being said, it's has been very difficult to get other adults to understand the issues.

[eternalnewbee]

One thing about the just working bit. It's been said before, but most normal people buy computers with an os already installed. It might work badly (vista) or well (mac) but it's there already.

It's quite a step up for average computer users to install an os. Scary and dangerous. Even for me and I've done it dozens of times at least. What if it don't work?

I am very positive about linux and ubuntu. There is no comparison to Windows anything. It's not perfect, but it's free, the interface is very workable, no malware, more reliable, no DRM, and I control my computer, not some corporation with very different goals and needs than me.

True.

That being said, it's has been very difficult to get other adults to understand the issues.
It's called fear of the unknown.