Apple engineering SUCKS

[Biased turkey]

Here I am at work ( as an electronic technician ) one of our ignorant female professors purchased an Imac 350 MHZ ( you know, the blue model that looks like a toilet bobl ) and asked me to replace the CDROM unit.
More than 1 hour later I realise that I'll have to remove the complete motherboard and the 2 round tiny loudspeakersjust to swap the damn CDROM or the harddisk.
I already removed 2 plastic covers, 1 EM shield and the RAM.
What do they smoke at Apple's product engineering department ?

Sorry, but I have to vent off.
That's a live post right from my workplace

[Brunellus]

it wasn't meant to be beautiful to you--but it was meant to be beautiful for the user/purchaser. Apple long ago realized that their target market doesn't care about what's under the hood, so long as the chrome shines well.

[wrtrdood]

Heh! It's not just Apple. I had to replace a power connector on a Sony Vaio recently and ended up pulling everything out (including unmounting the LCD) just to get to the MB. Fortunately I found a usable guide to help me along so it wasn't too bad, just time consuming.

Gotta love them engineers... they never seem to consider what is going to be required should repair be needed. Two hours just to get to a simple connector which takes all of 15 minutes to fix is not too efficient. But then, I guess that's what they have us for, eh?

[Linux BASHer]

Well, in the way of Apple's past culture, the engineers may indeed have been smoking something. But, to be fair, that model was not meant to have it's internal parts user-upgraded. Trust me, I know-- I feel your pain. I upgraded an eMac once, and I've upgraded a laptop. But user accessibility is just not concern when they put these models together. This is why I've vowed never to buy a desktop Mac with an integrated screen ever again (or at least for a long time).

Now, say whatever you will about the (old) iMac's aesthetic appeal, but I think it's a very nice design.

[jdong]

It's just a shady business practice... Make the insides a PITA to work with, requiring special tools to take off half the stuff, obfuscating everything else also... So that when something goes wrong, you NEED an Apple technician, not your best friend who'd do it for free.

[YourSurrogateGod]

It's just a shady business practice... Make the insides a PITA to work with, requiring special tools to take off half the stuff, obfuscating everything else also... So that when something goes wrong, you NEED an Apple technician, not your best friend who'd do it for free.
Never really liked apple because of this factor... the company irritated me more than Microsoft in the past...

[Linux BASHer]

Never really liked apple because of this factor... the company irritated me more than Microsoft in the past...

And yet Apple's Mac OS X is based on Open-Source software, as well as its web browser, while M$ is completely closed-source and continues to limit the growth and adoption of Open-Source software.

[Orporg]

Compaq often did the same thing. I don't think I'd call it a shady business practice, though I very much sympathize with anyone who had to work on the guts of a Mac.

The basic problem is that they have to stick an enormous amount of hardware into a really small and non-standard case. Think of all the components in a regular PC tower. They have to stuff that, plus the monitor, speakers, etc. in there. It's like a compact car. You're trading easy maintenance for a small footprint. And he's right, iMacs weren't made for user upgradability. You could stick some RAM and maybe an Airport card in there and that's it. Not having PCI slots and the like also keeps the cost down.

And pretty much every laptop is like that. I prefer an Apple laptop because things (tend) not to break in them as much. But the IBM Thinkpad's are supposed to have a similar reputation for durability.

[bjweeks]

It's just a shady business practice... Make the insides a PITA to work with, requiring special tools to take off half the stuff, obfuscating everything else also... So that when something goes wrong, you NEED an Apple technician, not your best friend who'd do it for free.
I don't think so they just have the home tech in mind at the time of design.

[towsonu2003]

ignorant female professors
?
why not 'ignorant profs'?
?

[ssam]

the most common upgrade on a computer is probably ram, so apple make that easy on all their modern machines.

the side opening tower design (http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/g3c.shtml) (since ~1999), has very easy internal access. I think at the first trade show they were displayed at 10s of gb of ram was stolen.

i dont think putting new hard drives into the ibooks was a high design priority. how tough they are was. i believe it can take quite a dropping.

[Orporg]

I've put memory in my iBook and it wasn't very hard. You had to be careful, yes, but otherwise it was pretty easy. Just a few screws.

[wmcbrine]

I don't think it's fair to generalize about Apple based on an old iMac. Look at the PowerMacs -- they're easier to work inside than a typical PC. The cover folds down cleanly, no screws to remove, all wires out of the way, everything easily accessible. And these are the units that are comparable in form factor to a desktop PC, and that are meant to be upgradable. The iMacs... well, there's no real comparison on the PC side, but it would probably be fairer to compare them to laptops. You won't have an easy time working inside those, either.

I don't think this one rather narrow aspect of the machine is a fair way to judge "engineering", either.

[welsh_spud]

You think opening the old iMacs is hard? Try doing anything in a mac mini. It hurts to hear the side clips crack as you jam a putty knife down the side of the case.

Easy to use? Yeah right

[jdong]

now, IMO the mac mini (due to it's unique design limitations [i.e. SIZE]) has the right to be a bit counterintuitive. I haven't seen much in the PC world that rivals the Mini, so it's hard to back up this claim, but I'd venture to say that a competitively sized PC equivalent would be just as crammed up and hard to mod as the Mini.

[MetalMusicAddict]

you NEED an Apple technician, not your best friend who'd do it for free.
HA! I have a friend whos an Apple tech who'd do it for free. :)

I think Tibooks are a bit better to work on though. He complaines about older models but seems to like the Tibooks alot.

[jdong]

HA! I have a friend whos an Apple tech who'd do it for free. :)

I think Tibooks are a bit better to work on though. He complaines about older models but seems to like the Tibooks alot.
LOL I was thinking about that potential smartass reply when I originally made that comment... what do you know, jynxed myself.

[MetalMusicAddict]

Funny thing is he makes more money on the side making replica StarWars armor then as an Apple tech. :)

[YourSurrogateGod]

And yet Apple's Mac OS X is based on Open-Source software, as well as its web browser, while M$ is completely closed-source and continues to limit the growth and adoption of Open-Source software.
Yes, it is based on OSS, but is the code for the OS open for others to see? Other than the fact that the OS is based on Unix, how are the programs that are made by apple different from the ones made by Microsoft?

My comment of annoyance comes from comparing and contrasting the experiences that I've had with both operating systems. I'll take Ubuntu any day, but if faced with a choice with either Mac OS or XP, I'll take the latter.

[jdong]

Well, not to get caught up in an OS war or anything, but OSX does have a Unix core. Yes, there's the whole OSS/ "What has Apple really contributed", and I don't like to comment on that.... The facts are there: The Darwin BSD core is used little outside OSX and Apple technology, whether OSS or not (i.e. launchd, Apple modifications to BSD components) has been rarely adopted outside of Apple. Whether that's apple's fault or not, I cannot analyze accurately.


As far as my OS choice, it'd have to be:
Linux
*BSD
OSX
Windows


I like *nix OSes. They tend to multitask a lot better than Windows will ever. I am a person whose computer's CPU usage rarely falls below 50%, yet I can still work responsively on my Linux system even when the CPU's under 100% load. That's something us *nix folk take for granted, that's difficult to get adjusted to under Windows.

Also, I like the spirit of Open Source and will always prefer using/supporting an Open Source solution over the closed-source alternate.

I haven't used OSX much, but from my experience it does retain a lot of the multitasking power from its *nix brethren.

[psoleko]

I would never have been able to fix some macs in my time without pbfixit.com. If you ever need a guide on replacing a component in an Ibook or Powerbook head there before you start tearing your hair out. :D

[basketcase]

Last year a friend of mine bought a PowerMac G5 and a PowerBook G4. We upgraded the Ram in the Powerbook to 2GB and the ram in the G5 to 6GB. I also put a 300GB HDD in the PowerMac. The engineers are definitely thinking of the design and not thinking for the techs who have to work on them.

The integrated NIC went out on the motherboard in the PowerMac and had to be replaced. Even the apple tech had a hard time (~2 hours just to get the board out) and left w/o finishing the work.

Yes a PITA, but I love their design, and some thought went into them.

[pauljwells]

I take no-one who's posted here is involved in manufacturing industry? NOTHING destined for the consumer is designed with maintenance in mind any more. Even cars are going this way now. They work for the warranty period and (usually) a reasonable time afterwards, then you replace them. To do anything else means that your product is either unappealing (we all like our super-sleek powerbooks and vaios don't we?) or expensive, and it doesn't sell. If you want ease of maintenance buy an aeroplane engine...

The HD on my 12" Powerbook blew two days ago. I looked over the (several pages of) instructions on how to replace it (on pbfixit), and although there was nothing there I would have worried about doing, it was just too much work for me to get done in one go, so I was more worried that bits would go missing. In the end I took it to my local Apple shop, who will bill me handsomely for the privilege. On the plus side I'll get a 100GB drive to replace the 40GB one and a guarantee of sorts. BUT, would I have wanted the super portable 12" PB if it had been 14" just to make the HD accessible? No, I don't think I would.

My 2p...