Microsoft + Novell

[undoIT]

Hi Mods. The thread on Wallpaper and theme has gotten a bit off topic and should probably be moved to a separate thread. Can you please move this post:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6097854&postcount=399

plus the following related posts to this new thread?

Thanks :D

Also, please change the poll question to read:

"Is the Microsoft + Novell partnership beneficial for Open Source / Free Software?"

I am not able to edit the poll.

[Dragonbite]

Yeah, I noticed the other thread getting a wee bit off topic and was waiting for somebody to call us on it :lolflag:

[undoIT]

Yep. It is an interesting topic though and I want to continue the conversation. I recently downloaded OpenSUSE 11.1 Beta 4. If you start the installation you are immediately greeted by an EULA.

Here is the EULA from 11.0 final:
http://opensuse.ca.unixheads.org/distribution/11.0/repo/non-oss/EULA.txt

And here is the one for 11.1 Pre-Release:
http://download.opensuse.org/factory/repo/oss/EULA.txt

I will not be installing OpenSUSE.

[Dragonbite]

Interesting. This looks like something I would expect to find in SLED and SLES, not so much openSUSE.

I can understand their wanting to restirct the use of SUSE and Novell Logos. Red Hat does the same thing so CentOS has to strip all of that out before they can distribute their distribution.

I can also understand, somewhat, it's use with non-oss since .. well it's not open source and not covered by the GPL.

Tha language is pretty benign, but curious to say the least.

[undoIT]

IMO, OpenSUSE is not free software. It is free in terms of not having to pay anything, but it is not free as in freedom.


The Software is protected by the copyright laws and treaties of the
United States ("U.S.") and other countries and is subject to the
terms of this Agreement. The Software is licensed to You, not sold.

Novell reserves all rights not expressly granted to You. You may not:
(1) reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software except
and only to the extent it is expressly permitted by applicable law or
the license terms accompanying a component of the Software; or (2)
transfer the Software or Your license rights under this Agreement, in
whole or in part.

OpenSUSE seems to be a tangled mess of open source / closed source software. I will be sticking with distros that are 100% free and just install the non-free stuff I need like Flash plugin (until Gnash or another free alternative is good enough for daily use).

[*g!t5^_)*(H]

There's just one reason for Microsoft to justify the help for Linux.

They know Windows died with XP and all new Windows will fail, world now goes on with Google and Internet, and there are plenty of brands fighting against Microsoft.

To help Novell is their last chance to kill Linux, and at the same time, to help Novell is their last chance to BUY Linux, control it and (why not) develop a new Windows based on Unix.

At last, their biggest rival on Desktop is Mac OS X, and their biggest rival at Universities and third world is Linux. They lost the battle and they know it, the only thing they have is money to buy anything.

If Microsoft really wants to talk seriously with enterprises and governments, to sell new OS products and support, the only way is Linux (everyone knows it). So, selling a good Linux Distribution is like killing Linux, this is a perfect gameplay.

[darkvampire]

That license is somewhat like the XP one.

It is basically a free Windows.

Oh well, OpenSuSe never ran on my laptop anyway - it always went weird :S. I couldn't load the desktop.

[LuisAugusto]

IMO, OpenSUSE is not free software. It is free in terms of not having to pay anything, but it is not free as in freedom.


The Software is protected by the copyright laws and treaties of the
United States ("U.S.") and other countries and is subject to the
terms of this Agreement. The Software is licensed to You, not sold.


Novell reserves all rights not expressly granted to You. You may not:
(1) reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software except
and only to the extent it is expressly permitted by applicable law or
the license terms accompanying a component of the Software; or (2)
transfer the Software or Your license rights under this Agreement, in
whole or in part.

OpenSUSE seems to be a tangled mess of open source / closed source software. I will be sticking with distros that are 100% free and just install the non-free stuff I need like Flash plugin (until Gnash or another free alternative is good enough for daily use).

If you actually learn to read, it says that, unless the license allow it, you can't make reverse engineering. Now think, what part of SLED/OpenSUSE isn't GPL... None right? That's clearly to protect, for example, Real Player or Flash ;)

Novell and Red Hat are the only distros that truly develop anything more complicated than some little front-end :)

[undoIT]

Novell reserves all rights not expressly granted to You

Umm, what is Novell reserving rights to? Would they even mention Novell in the EULA if they were only protecting Real Player and Flash?

[LuisAugusto]

Umm, what is Novell reserving rights to? Would they even mention Novell in the EULA if they were only protecting Real Player and Flash?

Name, Logo, and that kind of stuff, because you'll fail to find anything non-OSS in SLED/OpenSUSE (of course, I'm excluding the obvious closed source applications... )

[undoIT]

So, every single component (besides obviously Flash and Real player) is accompanied by a GPL or other open source license in OpenSUSE?

As long as that EULA is there, I'm not interested in installing OpenSUSE for myself or recommending it to anyone.

[Dragonbite]

Just did a quick search in the CentOS website and found that they too include an EULA, but it is located inside an installation so I couldn't look at it.

If anybody has a CentOS installation, perhaps you can compare it to the openSUSE version.

/usr/share/doc/centos-release-5/EULA
/usr/share/doc/centos-release-5/GPL

Basically it is due to protecting
Novell's trademarks (can't blame them, Canonical protects theirs and Red Hat protects theirs)
cover included 3rd party non-OSS which is included in the DVD verrsion of openSUSE


Ubuntu can bypass this by controlling what it is you get when you install Ubuntu from a LiveCD. Red Hat and Novell provide DVDs with all of their packages and you have the choice to select them in the beginning, or not. Remove these 3rd party restrictions, remove the EULA and just go by the GPL.

When you go to install Sun Java (I believe) or Acrobat Reader you are greeted with an EULA you have to accept before it will continue to install (just like Windows). When installing openSUSE you don't get this EULA popping-up unless you selected Acrobat Reader or Sun Java.

Cannot reverse-engineer? Why do you need to do that when you can get the source code?!

[LuisAugusto]

Just did a quick search in the CentOS website and found that they too include an EULA, but it is located inside an installation so I couldn't look at it.

If anybody has a CentOS installation, perhaps you can compare it to the openSUSE version.


Basically it is due to protecting
Novell's trademarks (can't blame them, Canonical protects theirs and Red Hat protects theirs)
cover included 3rd party non-OSS which is included in the DVD verrsion of openSUSE


Ubuntu can bypass this by controlling what it is you get when you install Ubuntu from a LiveCD. Red Hat and Novell provide DVDs with all of their packages and you have the choice to select them in the beginning, or not. Remove these 3rd party restrictions, remove the EULA and just go by the GPL.

When you go to install Sun Java (I believe) or Acrobat Reader you are greeted with an EULA you have to accept before it will continue to install (just like Windows). When installing openSUSE you don't get this EULA popping-up unless you selected Acrobat Reader or Sun Java.

Cannot reverse-engineer? Why do you need to do that when you can get the source code?!

Indeed :lol:

[undoIT]

Ubuntu can bypass this by controlling what it is you get when you install Ubuntu from a LiveCD. Red Hat and Novell provide DVDs with all of their packages and you have the choice to select them in the beginning, or not. Remove these 3rd party restrictions, remove the EULA and just go by the GPL.

I got the EULA on the Live CD for OpenSUSE 11.1 beta 4 that I downloaded for testing. If Novell wants to bundle all the closed source software with the DVD or SLED to make it convenient for users and label it appropriately, then that is fine. However, there should be a free version available without the EULA. OpenSUSE should be open. It really isn't that hard to add on the extra stuff like Flash if a user wants to do that. Even on Windows, you have to download Flash if you want to use it.

Maybe Novell is just making a friendly gesture by including the EULA so that Windows users feel more at home. ;)

[mali2297]

Just did a quick search in the CentOS website and found that they too include an EULA, but it is located inside an installation so I couldn't look at it.

If anybody has a CentOS installation, perhaps you can compare it to the openSUSE version.


/usr/share/doc/centos-release-5/EULA:


CentOS-5/Beta EULA

CentOS-5 comes with no guarantees or warranties of any sorts,
either written or implied.

The Distribution is released as GPL. Individual packages in the
distribution come with their own licences.


/usr/share/doc/centos-release-5/GPL:


************************************************** ***************************
The CentOS Distribution is released as a GPL work and the following applies
to the software collection known as the CentOS Distribution. Individual
packages included in the distribution include their own licenses and the
following applies to all packages that it does not clash with. If there is a
clash between the following and individual package licenses, the individual
package license applies instead.
************************************************** ***************************

...then the standard GPL text follows.

[undoIT]

Hey Martin. I like the robot for your avatar :D

[Dragonbite]

As long as that EULA is there, I'm not interested in installing OpenSUSE for myself or recommending it to anyone.

Ok, that excuse is gone ;)

openSUSE Sports a New License (Ding dong, the EULA’s dead…) (http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/11/26/opensuse-sports-a-new-license-ding-dong-the-eulas-dead/)

Basically

Users no longer need to agree to the license. This is not a EULA, it’s a license notice. We want you to be aware of your rights as provided by the FOSS licenses, so we’ll display this notice but not require an agreement.
openSUSE is an aggregate work including many open source and free software packages. The aggregate work is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2, individual packages are governed by their respective licenses.
The main DVD now includes only the software that we can redistribute freely and that you can redistribute freely.

[Vince4Amy]

To be honest people who are going to flame Novell best stop using Ubuntu. Novell have involvement with a significant amount of projects including parts of Gnome and applications in the desktop Ubuntu installation.

[Redache]

They are also one of the few supporters of GPL version 3, which has the potential to make any EULA REALLY dodgy.

I actually don't care whether Novell and Microsoft partner up, it's no different to Apple and Microsoft, it's always best to keep your enemies closer. I also love the fact that when GPL V3 was announced, Novell said they were going to start adding it to their products and Microsoft panicked when they read what the License actually says about 3rd Party Vendors :D.

[Grant A.]

Ok, that excuse is gone ;)

openSUSE Sports a New License (Ding dong, the EULA’s dead…) (http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/11/26/opensuse-sports-a-new-license-ding-dong-the-eulas-dead/)

Basically

Users no longer need to agree to the license. This is not a EULA, it’s a license notice. We want you to be aware of your rights as provided by the FOSS licenses, so we’ll display this notice but not require an agreement.
openSUSE is an aggregate work including many open source and free software packages. The aggregate work is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2, individual packages are governed by their respective licenses.
The main DVD now includes only the software that we can redistribute freely and that you can redistribute freely.


Up to a bit of necromancy there, Dragon? :lolflag:

[undoIT]

Ok, that excuse is gone ;)

openSUSE Sports a New License (Ding dong, the EULA’s dead…) (http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/11/26/opensuse-sports-a-new-license-ding-dong-the-eulas-dead/)

Basically

Users no longer need to agree to the license. This is not a EULA, it’s a license notice. We want you to be aware of your rights as provided by the FOSS licenses, so we’ll display this notice but not require an agreement.
openSUSE is an aggregate work including many open source and free software packages. The aggregate work is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2, individual packages are governed by their respective licenses.
The main DVD now includes only the software that we can redistribute freely and that you can redistribute freely.


This is very good news! I'll have to download the install and check it out.

I'm going to be filing a lot of compatibility reports for different Linux distros and was planning on skipping OpenSUSE because of the EULA. I'm glad they made the right move. Thanks for the heads up Dragonbite :)

[Dragonbite]

Up to a bit of necromancy there, Dragon? :lolflag:

Well my avatar ain't chicken-bones!
<evil laughter>Mow haw ha ha...!</evil laughter>

[Yownanymous]

Microsoft are trying to kill Linux, it's glaringly obvious, but they won't win. Nothing that's free can be beaten by money. And remember Microsoft's other various pathetic attempts, like teaming up with Xandros. All Xandros did was nick the XP taskbar!:lolflag: