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darkvampire
November 5th, 2008, 08:48 AM
Nearly everyone in which I raise a conversation with about Computers, has either only just heard the name "Linux" or has never heard of it at all.

So my question is; Why do people not know what it is?
What are the reasons for it?

It is kind of stressful ¬¬

Trail
November 5th, 2008, 08:51 AM
Pretty popular IRL for me.

Nessa
November 5th, 2008, 08:53 AM
It's not unheard of in my country. Then again, not a lot people have heard of my country.

Circus-Killer
November 5th, 2008, 08:55 AM
people only know what they "need" to know in order to survive. in order to survive the computing world, most people will get away with just knowing windows. in fact, in this day and age, at present, there is a "need" to know windows in order to work with most companies.

switching to linux, from first impressions, doesn't appear to give any advantage over windows when it comes to survival in the computing world. rather the opposite, sometimes linux can make it difficult for some people to survive in their surroundings. i myself, whilst using linux on all my personal machines, still have to use windows at work. when working between the two i have to remember so many more things to make sure what ever i'm doing will behave in the same manner on both platforms.

so essentially, for most people, all they need for survival in todays world is windows. and for some, trying to learn another os could hinder their ability to survive. mans first priority is survival, the rest comes afterwards.

eternalnewbee
November 5th, 2008, 09:18 AM
It's the monopoly another os has had for years. You can compare it with a famous beer brand from Amsterdam...

grotto
November 5th, 2008, 09:22 AM
I think for the same reason people don't know what operating system is in their calculator, DVD player, car, radio, etc.

billgoldberg
November 5th, 2008, 10:52 AM
It's the monopoly another os has had for years. You can compare it with a famous beer brand from Amsterdam...

How exactly do they compare?

eternalnewbee
November 5th, 2008, 10:56 AM
Well, just like ms, you can find it everywhere in the world. That, however does not mean it's the best beer. There you go.
EDIT: Belgian beer.... Yummy!!! So much variety, so much taste. Makes me long back to the days when I went to college in Maastricht, and lived just across the border in Belgium... The good times...

billgoldberg
November 5th, 2008, 11:01 AM
Well, just like ms, you can find it everywhere in the world. That, however does not mean it's the best beer. There you go.
EDIT: Belgian beer.... Yummy!!! So much variety, so much taste. Makes me long back to the days when I went to college in Maastricht, and lived just across the border in Belgium... The good times...

I've never seen someone buy that beer here, I don't even know a place the sells it.

:p:p:p

I-75
November 5th, 2008, 11:02 AM
Nearly everyone in which I raise a conversation with about Computers, has either only just heard the name "Linux" or has never heard of it at all.

So my question is; Why do people not know what it is?
What are the reasons for it?

It is kind of stressful ¬¬


That is rapidly changing, with the growing open source mandates. Many government entities, school districts, military branches, even cities like Munich and countries like Russia have open source mandates which fall quite nicely into Linux'lap.

Add to this the server market which Linux has in many areas over taken Unix and of course Windows. Linux rules on Wall Street. And add to the mix the newest hottest segment in which Linux is making great strides...the best selling mini laptop/notebook market.

One recent report said Ubuntu users now number eight million and a recent report by Gartner stated that Linux commands a 4 % share. A large influx of disgruntled Windows users have discovered Linux and are now dual booting with Linux is another fast growing segment.

While Linux has been around some time, its only recently within the last few years that many have taken notice of Linux. It won't be all that long that Linux could be a household word. And Linux could achieve that without the advertising dollars that Microsoft and Apple has.

mentallaxative
November 5th, 2008, 11:12 AM
No advertising. I remember the colourful shiny ads Microsoft put out for XP on tv when it first came out.

bomanizer
November 5th, 2008, 11:24 AM
I think for the same reason people don't know what operating system is in their calculator, DVD player, car, radio, etc.

Most people don't even know what an OS is, let alone a distribution, web browser..etc.

For example, I usually talk about browsers instead of "explorer" or "the net", but usually people go like "a what?" when I say "browser". Sigh.

t0p
November 5th, 2008, 12:41 PM
Linux is relatively unknown because a certain software vendor has leveraged its historically fortunate position to ensure no one hears about other products. For instance, Dell has to put "recommends Windows" messages all over its ads and web space even though it sells other OSen.

This is slowly changing because some big money is being put behind Linux now - eg. IBM, Shuttleworth, etc. But it's always hard to change the status quo. Look at the rock band Status Quo - they have hardly changed in the past 40 years!

revanb
November 5th, 2008, 12:50 PM
In my opinion Linux has been, before the present, mainly for people who really know computers and enjoy using them...They knew about linux.

Only recently has Linux crossed that threshold where everyone can relatively easily use it...I mean I use it at home and my wife skypes her friends, surfes the web send emails and generally has a blast!

It won't be long before many more people know about linux.

brunovecchi
November 5th, 2008, 01:05 PM
I think there is a serious lack of formal and unbiased education in computer science in highschools.

EdThaSlayer
November 5th, 2008, 01:26 PM
Very simple.
Because it has a small userbase.

I'm glad at my school that the IT guy knows Linux and 3 other students know what Linux is too. :p

Samhain13
November 5th, 2008, 02:31 PM
It's not unheard of in my country. Then again, not a lot people have heard of my country.

My sentiments exactly. :lolflag:

LaRoza
November 5th, 2008, 02:34 PM
Why can you so it is unheard if you speak about it?

Everywhere I go, and Linux is unheard, it is now heard.

t0p
November 5th, 2008, 03:33 PM
Why can you so it is unheard if you speak about it?

Everywhere I go, and Linux is unheard, it is now heard.

I know a fair number of "serious" computer users IRL, and nearly all would claim to have never heard of Linux before I talked about it to them. A typical conversation might go like this:

BOB: Do you use XP or Vista?

t0p: Neither. I use Ubuntu.

BOB: What's that, like a Mac or something?

t0p: No, it's a Linux distro.

BOB: What's a "Linux distro"?

t0p: [explains what Linux is]

BOB: So why use that? Can't you afford Windows?

I know just a handful of computer users who used Linux before I talked to them about it. And some of them just use a Knoppix CD to perform a few tasks on their otherwise 100% Windows machines. So yes, I do my best to "spread the word" amongst my acquaintences... but it seems like if I didn't do it, no one would. Linux recognition is so low as to be almost non-existent in some circles.

timcredible
November 5th, 2008, 03:35 PM
i think it's only in the US that linux is unheard of. i think it's for the same reason that most americans think there are only 2 political parties - money. microsoft, republicans, democrats, all have a lot of money, and they use that money to brainwash people into thinking there is no alternative with lots of tv advertising

darkvampire
November 5th, 2008, 05:12 PM
i think it's only in the US that linux is unheard of.

I live in England !! ¬¬

darkvampire
November 5th, 2008, 05:14 PM
Most people don't even know what an OS is, let alone a distribution, web browser..etc.

For example, I usually talk about browsers instead of "explorer" or "the net", but usually people go like "a what?" when I say "browser". Sigh.

Urgh; I know what you mean. Most people just call it "The Internet" instead of "Explorer" & when I mentioned Firefox and Opera, they went "I thought there was only one Internet" and "Is it better than Google Search?"

Eeek.

darkvampire
November 5th, 2008, 05:16 PM
Why can you so it is unheard if you speak about it?

Everywhere I go, and Linux is unheard, it is now heard.

I don't understand your grammar; I can't answer. Sorry.

Corfy
November 5th, 2008, 11:19 PM
Microsoft is spending $300 million on the current "I'm a PC" ad campaign, and their ads are everywhere.

I have rarely seen a Linux commercial.

MaxIBoy
November 5th, 2008, 11:35 PM
It's not quite unheard of. Generally, if there's someone who doesn't even know what an operating system is, I don't want that person posting here for help.


DIGRESSION:

i think it's only in the US that linux is unheard of. i think it's for the same reason that most americans think there are only 2 political parties - money. microsoft, republicans, democrats, all have a lot of money, and they use that money to brainwash people into thinking there is no alternative with lots of tv advertising

There's a reason voters enforce the two-party system. If I had my way, the Green party would replace the Republican party and the Libertarians would replace the Democrats, but there has to be a two-party system. The 51-49 system is a LOT better than the 30-30-40 system. Or the 23-23=23-23-28 system.

KiwiNZ
November 5th, 2008, 11:39 PM
This is not for political discussion.


It's not quite unheard of. Generally, if there's someone who doesn't even know what an operating system is, I don't want that person posting here for help.


DIGRESSION:


There's a reason voters enforce the two-party system. If I had my way, the Green party would replace the Republican party and the Libertarians would replace the Democrats, but there has to be a two-party system. The 51-49 system is a LOT better than the 30-30-40 system. Or the 23-23=23-23-28 system.

MaxIBoy
November 5th, 2008, 11:42 PM
Someone called me "brainwashed."


It was clearly labeled as a DIGRESSION. (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/digression)

Saint Angeles
November 6th, 2008, 05:52 AM
Nearly everyone in which I raise a conversation with about Computers, has either only just heard the name "Linux" or has never heard of it at all.

So my question is; Why do people not know what it is?
What are the reasons for it?

It is kind of stressful ¬¬
its prolly because you havent told them about linux. i used to be stressed out, until...

i converted 2 of my close friends to linux and my girlfriend as well.

also, i have several other friends that love linux.

maybe you just need better friends?

FiremothPilot
November 6th, 2008, 06:28 AM
Nearly everyone in which I raise a conversation with about Computers, has either only just heard the name "Linux" or has never heard of it at all.

So my question is; Why do people not know what it is?
What are the reasons for it?

It is kind of stressful ¬¬

I think some of the general knowledge about Linux depends on your level of tech interest. I work at my university's HelpDesk and most of my co-workers have not only heard of Linux, but they've expressed interest in or have already tried installing a distro of their choosing.

Take a look at this poll over at Engadget:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/04/poll-which-os-do-you-prefer/

Chame_Wizard
November 6th, 2008, 09:26 AM
I think some of the general knowledge about Linux depends on your level of tech interest. I work at my university's HelpDesk and most of my co-workers have not only heard of Linux, but they've expressed interest in or have already tried installing a distro of their choosing.

Take a look at this poll over at Engadget:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/04/poll-which-os-do-you-prefer/

MacOSX owns :guitar:

SomeGuyDude
November 6th, 2008, 09:49 AM
It doesn't advertise, it comes preloaded on incredibly few machines, and there's no reason for anyone to convert in practical terms.

The lack of unity doesn't help, either. It's not as if there's Windows, OSX, and then Linux. Linux itself has a thousand different variants, which is a huge reason it's a great system, but it's also what holds it back. Everyone's resources aren't pooled together to push Linux into the mainstream.

As others have said, too, there's a general incuriosity. People with Windows look at the OS as a singular progression. If you're using XP, you're on the "old version". Windows Vista is all there is. Same with OSX. You use OSX. There's no questions.

Consider someone using, say, Crunchbang. You're using a fork of a fork of a distribution of an Operating system (#! -> Ubuntu -> Debian -> Linux). We're talking a level of removed that people just don't wrap their heads around. The OS doesn't even enter their consciousness when it comes to the computer. Windows IS the computer, it's not software. Software RUNS in Windows. People are just baffled at the idea of removing Windows because it doesn't seem like it should work. Macs run OSX, PC's run Windows.

Tamlynmac
November 6th, 2008, 12:05 PM
Is ignorance bless?
I agree that most computers users I've met equate Windows with computers - period - end of story. The average Windows user may have no idea or care what an OS is.

One other thing to keep in mind is that most people use a windows work station at their job and have become comfortable with Windows. Exiting that comfort zone is not necessary and for many undesirable.

Until they are informed that an alternative exists they may never even know or even after informed - care. I found Ubuntu (FF) through a friend and prior to that had no idea that a choice existed, much less a free choice. The only other OS I was ever aware of besides DOS & Mac was IBM's OS/2 (showing my age). With all the activity and stress in the average persons life, I suspect that a computer OS doesn't rate high on the priority list.

Should the economic decline here in the states continue, I believe Ubuntu could actually see substanial increase in usage. As funds dry up and loans get harder to acquire many people may seek an alternative, based simply on increased monetary motivation. This may motivate many Windows home users to switch to a Linux OS. Secret is information. They need to be made aware of these alternatives and that is IMHO where we can have a positive impact. Tell people about the alternatives and even suggest a demo (offer them a disk) or send them to the Ubuntu web page. If their disinterested so be it - but without increased awareness and exchange of information Windows will continue to dominate. I'm not suggesting we beat people up with Ubuntu or act like fanboys (hate that term) just open communication and sharing of ideas.

darkvampire
November 6th, 2008, 05:43 PM
maybe you just need better friends?

I have an amazing best friend and excellent friends.

Just because they don't know what Linux is or use it doesn't mean they aren't good.

wispygalaxy
November 7th, 2008, 05:11 AM
Advertise more and let people know that it isn't difficult to use. There is this misconception that the command line must be used at all times. Also, show people cool themes that they can use. Inform them about alternatives to Word, Internet Explorer, etc. Offer to install it if you can, or show them the Live CD. The Live CD was very helpful to me because I was afraid that I would mess up my computer files installing Ubuntu. Overall, people don't know about alternatives. I used to think Internet Explorer was pretty good before discovering Firefox. XD

Saint Angeles
November 7th, 2008, 05:14 AM
I have an amazing best friend and excellent friends.

Just because they don't know what Linux is or use it doesn't mean they aren't good.
i know... i was just being an ***.

i do that for fun sometimes because i have low self esteem.

EnGorDiaz
November 7th, 2008, 05:27 AM
i think in australia its quite popular i have seen over 10 ppl who have complete linux boxs

when it comes to the common computer world people in the industry look down on linux when it actualy supports more hardware than windows

MaxIBoy
November 7th, 2008, 05:36 AM
Although it doesn't support more new hardware.

Sure, there are Itanium versions of the Linux kernel and drivers in the kernel for floptical drives. But no one uses those anymore. Meanwhile, Linux users with certain NICs are screwed.


However, the Linux developers have done more work on hardware support than any other organization. A hardware manufacturer creates its own drivers with the full hardware specifications right in front of it, while a Linux driver maintainer has to reverse-engineer the specification and write drivers from there. Furthermore, a hardware manufacturer only has to maintain drivers for its own hardware, whereas the Linux community has to maintain drivers for hardware from many companies. It's obvious which one is more work.

crazyness003
November 7th, 2008, 05:48 AM
i know... i was just being an ***.

i do that for fun sometimes because i have low self esteem.
nice.
Anyway, I heard of Linux a long long time ago, but when i did research on it (this was, say '00-'01 era) you only had the terminal (at leased thats what i got from my readings).
I was introduced to Linux via Ubuntu 5.04 liveCD back in '05, by a friend simply known as "Yoda." After which, I ordered a bunch of free 5.10 CD's from Ubuntu via Ship-It and gave most of them away (of course keeping 1 for myself). I was surprised at the progress i saw from the readings i had 5 years earlier. Been on-and-off ever since gutsy 7.10. Then upgraded to hardy and have been closely following ever since.

But as for OS, i always seemed to know what it was. I understood the difference between win95 and win98. Mac 2 from OSX. So, to me Linux was easy to comprehend. But when i tell others about it, or even show them my running Linux OS, they ask me "how much it costs?", "did i pirate it?", "will it run in XP or do I need vista?" And when i try to explain the difference of OS and computer...they zone out.

Teach them* what an OS is, and it may be easier to teach them about Linux.

But its OVER9000 times easier to teach a complete computer illiterate about Linux than one who has used win or mac.

* "them" refers to uninfomred windozombies or mac fanatics.

MaxIBoy
November 7th, 2008, 07:44 AM
But as for OS, i always seemed to know what it was. I understood the difference between win95 and win98. Mac 2 from OSX. So, to me Linux was easy to comprehend. Same.
But when i tell others about it, or even show them my running Linux OS, they ask me "how much it costs?", "did i pirate it?", Explain that you're not running the Linux, you're running a Linux, and there's more than one. A lot of these are funded by companies that sell tech support, some of them are sold for money to corporate customers, some of them are developed by hobbyists, and so on.
"will it run in XP or do I need vista?" And when i try to explain the difference of OS and computer...they zone out. I've only encountered that four or five times. I tried everything, but finally, I hit on the winning tactic: say, "look what amazing things Linux can do!", hit ctrl-alt-f2 to go into full text mode, and launch into a confusing explanation of how great regular expressions are. Works every time.

techmarks
November 7th, 2008, 09:10 AM
So my question is; Why do people not know what it is?
What are the reasons for it?

It is kind of stressful ¬¬

Linux is for the most most a community driven effort.

It doesn't have the large marketing programme.

So try not to get too stressed about it. If your friends are seriously interested look upon it as an opportunity to share your knowledge about a great and noble effort.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss, but never a good place to be.

Not to steretype but I've found most Linux types really like computers, not just using them, but knowing and learning about computing.

crazyness003
November 7th, 2008, 10:51 PM
... I've only encountered that four or five times. I tried everything, but finally, I hit on the winning tactic: say, "look what amazing things Linux can do!", hit ctrl-alt-f2 to go into full text mode, and launch into a confusing explanation of how great regular expressions are. Works every time.Yeah, thats exacly what they need to see. Then they'll tell me, "Isin't that MS-DOS? I saw that in a museum not too long ago. Why haven't you upgraded?"
My simple reply would be: head for the hills...no seriously, go to the hills...and as far away from me as physically and financially possible.

Linux is for the most most a community driven effort....So try not to get too stressed about it...most Linux types really like computers, not just using them, but knowing and learning about computing.
True. Agreed. Also True. What really burns my Bunsen is that when i ask anyone what they use computers for (except for avid PC gamers, thats an entire different battle) they tell me, email, web, chat. So i explain that all of that can be done for free. So they reply, "Linux computers are free?!" Then i have to explain that when you do buy a computer, nearly 50% of the cost is that stupid windows OEM disk. I lose them there. Its just crazy.
I sat my dad in front of Ubuntu 8.10 and he had no problem using it. Then he asked me, "why is the start button in the top left corner?" No other difference. He checked his email, watched youtube videos (with minor problems) and walked away.

RATM_Owns
November 7th, 2008, 11:12 PM
Surprisingly, some of the kids in my school (7th Grade) have heard about Linux.
One thought it was made by Microsoft though. :P

Bödvar
November 9th, 2008, 05:21 PM
If I am not misguided, the South African government is adopting Ubuntu for its systems.

Frak
November 9th, 2008, 05:38 PM
Because it's harder to get a Linux certification than it does to get a Windows certification ;)

razerbug
November 10th, 2008, 12:40 PM
Windows does what 99% of computer users need, it is default on almost all affordable machines, and MS still pay millions to advertise it.

OSx is a waste of space on over priced hardware but Apple pay billions on selling it as a lifestyle choice rather than a PC

Linux dosn't advertise. It isn't default on machines. So it's got ALOT of work to do to elbow it's way into the collective conscious, The fact that so many people do use it, and that Dell now ships with it as an option, despite the above, is testament to (mainly) Ubuntu and the work of the comunity!

HungryMan
November 10th, 2008, 02:43 PM
Because Linux is a hacker/programmer/geek/alien/klingon thing. LOL
And most of the people I know of that never heard of Linux think internet is a skill.

Seriously, I think it's unheard of is because it's not it's goal to be heard of. I might be the only one who thinks this way, but Linux to me is about choice. It never was about working better than OSX or Windows or a a replacement/competition to them, it's about just working.

MaxIBoy
November 10th, 2008, 05:24 PM
Linux started out as one man scratching an itch. I think part of the reason it's unheard of is that, for the longest time, the only people encouraged to install it were the people capable of contributing code. That's changing these days, because it's become understood that anyone is valuable for exposing bugs. But the connotation of Linux as being for programmers only lives on.

handy
November 10th, 2008, 11:53 PM
Windows does what 99% of computer users need, it is default on almost all affordable machines, and MS still pay millions to advertise it.

Agreed.

Most people don't even know what an operating system is, they buy computers based on other criteria. I was astounded when I realised that in many cases, the female of a couple casts the deciding vote based on how the computer will match the decor of the room it will be living in. For many people a computer is just another piece of furniture.



OSx is a waste of space on over priced hardware but Apple pay billions on selling it as a lifestyle choice rather than a PC

I don't entirely agree with your statement/opinion.

Apple do spend up big on marketing for sure, they are solely in the business of making money & do whatever it takes to make it.

As far as your statement re. OS X being a waste of space is concerned I strongly disagree. It is vastly superior to any OS that MS has produced. It does not suffer from viruses or mal-ware, it is very easy to install & remove software, it is also very easy for a new user to learn.

OS X also has problems, some of which come down to personal taste, or even the size screen you are using.

OS X is far from a waste of space.



Linux dosn't advertise. It isn't default on machines. So it's got ALOT of work to do to elbow it's way into the collective conscious, The fact that so many people do use it, and that Dell now ships with it as an option, despite the above, is testament to (mainly) Ubuntu and the work of the comunity!

Linux is starting to become default on more machines apart from Dell, HP, Toshiba & IBM are all major players that produce machines using Linux. Linux based netbooks may become a trend.

China, Russia & to a lesser extent at this stage India, are making very strong moves to be FOSS based. This will have a huge effect on the consciousness of over half of the worlds population with regard to Linux. School children will grow up being taught Linux. :)

The advertising dollar can not win this one. It is only a matter of time before MS & Apple will be niche products. This is why MS is so intent on competing with Google, & Apple could live very well at the moment without selling a computer on its other hardware products.

When money is short FOSS will get even stronger, if money gets short enough, Apple will struggle & MS will shrink a great deal, though MS is so wealthy that it is hard to imagine a financial situation so dire that MS crashes, if that day comes, MS's fortunes will be the least of our concerns.

Old_Grey_Wolf
November 11th, 2008, 01:34 AM
My experience is different. Everyone I work with, my family, and all of my friends know what Linux is. However, very few of them use it on their home computers.

Even the programmers that write code for Linux (RedHat Enterprise Linux mostly) don't use Linux on their home computers. They are accustom to writing code for whatever OS the Systems Engineers decide is best to use for a project. They just use whatever OS comes with their home computer. Email, Surfing, and IM work fine on MS Windows. :)

poebae
November 11th, 2008, 01:48 AM
I'd love to see Linux ads on TV!

I know that Ubuntu != Linux and Linux != Ubuntu, but in my opinion Ubuntu is the most user-friendly for new users, and has the most support (all factors considered i.e. the Ubuntu forums as a resource etc), and Shuttleworth is one of the few Linux advocates who could bankroll such a campaign.

Surely it'd get people's attention if we showed Compiz+Atlantis+(insert other plugins here) ala the hundreds of demonstration videos you see on Youtube.

Then you mention that it's 100% free, and that all it takes to give it a try is to order free CDs to be shipped to their doorstep.

There could be a series of ads, each highlighting the strengths of using Linux (ease of software installation, protection from viruses/spyware/malware etc.)

That would be sweet!

handy
November 12th, 2008, 04:41 AM
I'd love to see Linux ads on TV!

I know that Ubuntu != Linux and Linux != Ubuntu, but in my opinion Ubuntu is the most user-friendly for new users, and has the most support (all factors considered i.e. the Ubuntu forums as a resource etc), and Shuttleworth is one of the few Linux advocates who could bankroll such a campaign.

Surely it'd get people's attention if we showed Compiz+Atlantis+(insert other plugins here) ala the hundreds of demonstration videos you see on Youtube.

Then you mention that it's 100% free, and that all it takes to give it a try is to order free CDs to be shipped to their doorstep.

There could be a series of ads, each highlighting the strengths of using Linux (ease of software installation, protection from viruses/spyware/malware etc.)

That would be sweet!

Ubuntu is still not ready for the average Joe/sephine. It is not ready to be advertised as such. Linux is getting closer everyday, being over confident in its friendliness & marketing it to the average Joe's too soon could be incredibly costly. imho. The bad name would stick longer than needed & the opposition would make sure of that.

crazyness003
November 12th, 2008, 04:50 AM
Ubuntu is still not ready for the average Joe/sephine. It is not ready to be advertised as such. Linux is getting closer everyday, being over confident in its friendliness & marketing it to the average Joe's too soon could be incredibly costly. imho. The bad name would stick longer than needed & the opposition would make sure of that.

Thats agreeable, to an extent.
The average user cannot install an OS. So, since ms is basically pouring money into vendors to push their product, the average user is just spoon-fed something and they actually believe that that's the only choice they have.

But if an average user purchased a system preloaded with Linux, they still wouldn't feel the difference. They will still make the assumption that its their only choice.

Both scenarios are almost the same, the only difference: advertising, and making people 'need' ms word (...etc), and forcing non-Linux-supported proprietary entities, like the new .docx format, windows live (with video chat) and silverlight.

rpwdh
November 12th, 2008, 04:53 AM
Nearly everyone in which I raise a conversation with about Computers, has either only just heard the name "Linux" or has never heard of it at all.

So my question is; Why do people not know what it is?
What are the reasons for it?

It is kind of stressful ¬¬

I used to wonder the same thing yet here we both are! 8)

Just be glad we decided to take the RED pill!!! \\:D/

tuxsheadache
November 12th, 2008, 05:38 AM
My friend booted up Linux from a pendrive at school and got thrown off the computer for "breaking it".
He is the only guy I knew in the whole school who used Open Source. Most people were shocked if you mentioned Firefox, and the IT department looked confused by it all.
The worst example when I was showing someone Linux and they said "that's a silly program, why don't you close it and turn it into a real computer?"
The I.T suite was painful for me.

handy
November 12th, 2008, 06:27 AM
Thats agreeable, to an extent.
The average user cannot install an OS. So, since ms is basically pouring money into vendors to push their product, the average user is just spoon-fed something and they actually believe that that's the only choice they have.

But if an average user purchased a system preloaded with Linux, they still wouldn't feel the difference. They will still make the assumption that its their only choice.

Both scenarios are almost the same, the only difference: advertising, and making people 'need' ms word (...etc), and forcing non-Linux-supported proprietary entities, like the new .docx format, windows live (with video chat) and silverlight.

I think that the situation is complicated further by the fact that for better or worse windows & MS products have been around for long enough to have become known parts of the societies of the developed world (at least).

This makes it even more difficult to pry the average (very conservative) user away from the known, away from what everyone else uses, away from what they use at work.

The Joe's think: Where will I get support? They will all poke fun at me & call me Linux the penguin at work because I use something different.

I've watched how many people in the Ubuntu forums poke fun at Apple users! It's a bit sad really.

Our chauvinistic tendencies are very strong, it can take a strong act of will to break free of them.

When you look at how known Apple are, & the amount of money that they spend on marketing, it can give us an idea that for Ubuntu to market that way is just not possible. The funds do not exist.

Apple has made nearly five billion dollars NET profit in the last 12 months. That's five billion after all advertising, taxes, R&D costs, the lot.

I think that Linux will continue to grow through the young people adopting it. The governments of China, Russia & India will take care of over half the worlds population for us, it will become increasingly used by corporations & slowly infiltrate the consciousness of our societies.

I can see no quick way for it to happen.

crazyness003
November 12th, 2008, 07:00 AM
...I can see no quick way for it to happen.

True. Its already the most widely used platform for webservers and whatnot (at least i think so).
The desktop ill get there eventually, but not overnight. It took Firefox a while before it became widespread, and still dosnt command a majority of the populous.

But then again, its about freedom. The freedom to chose free or restricted. Give options and expect nothing in return but help, regardless if its win, mac, or Lin.

HungryMan
November 12th, 2008, 07:41 AM
Hmm... maybe it is good for Linux to be heard of, only for the purpose that people are aware that there is a choice. But I think it would be bad if Linux was advertised to the point where it looks like we *need* it and we begin to lose the fact that we have a choice to use it or not. Linux wouldn't be any different from Windows or OSX if that happened.

blithen
November 12th, 2008, 08:14 AM
people only know what they "need" to know in order to survive. in order to survive the computing world, most people will get away with just knowing windows. in fact, in this day and age, at present, there is a "need" to know windows in order to work with most companies.

switching to linux, from first impressions, doesn't appear to give any advantage over windows when it comes to survival in the computing world. rather the opposite, sometimes linux can make it difficult for some people to survive in their surroundings. i myself, whilst using linux on all my personal machines, still have to use windows at work. when working between the two i have to remember so many more things to make sure what ever i'm doing will behave in the same manner on both platforms.

so essentially, for most people, all they need for survival in todays world is windows. and for some, trying to learn another os could hinder their ability to survive. mans first priority is survival, the rest comes afterwards.

This was the single greatest thing I have ever read on the Ubuntu Forums. Congrats, you win everything.

Old_Grey_Wolf
November 13th, 2008, 12:28 AM
Thats agreeable, to an extent.
The average user cannot install an OS. So, since ms is basically pouring money into vendors to push their product, the average user is just spoon-fed something and they actually believe that that's the only choice they have.

But if an average user purchased a system preloaded with Linux, they still wouldn't feel the difference. They will still make the assumption that its their only choice.

Well, until they do a kernel update and their wireless, etc., doesn't work anymore.

aysiu
November 13th, 2008, 12:38 AM
Well, until they do a kernel update and their wireless, etc., doesn't work anymore.
That could happen on Windows or Mac, too, though.

Npl
November 13th, 2008, 12:56 AM
That could happen on Windows or Mac, too, though.Through a bug,yes. On Linux its by design (or lack thereof).

You dont need to reach so far though, just compare the
help on Linux Desktop Environments vs commercial ones. If you`re lucky it`s stating the obvious, often enough its plainly missing and there are zero guides to solve problems.

handy
November 13th, 2008, 01:28 AM
Through a bug,yes. On Linux its by design (or lack thereof).

You dont need to reach so far though, just compare the
help on Linux Desktop Environments vs commercial ones. If you`re lucky it`s stating the obvious, often enough its plainly missing and there are zero guides to solve problems.

The way it used to be, & probably still is; if you have a problem with an MS product you phone their support, if MS accepts that responsibility for the problem then their support won't cost you anything, if they don't accept responsibility then it will most likely cost you, usually via credit card.

In the past the few times I ever called MS, was when it was undoubtedly their problem. MS phone support is not an enjoyable process.

MaxIBoy
November 13th, 2008, 01:34 AM
But Apple's support-- so helpful!
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2466?viewlocale=en_US

aysiu
November 13th, 2008, 01:35 AM
Through a bug,yes. On Linux its by design (or lack thereof).

You dont need to reach so far though, just compare the
help on Linux Desktop Environments vs commercial ones. If you`re lucky it`s stating the obvious, often enough its plainly missing and there are zero guides to solve problems.
Not been my experience at all.

I've seen all sorts of mysterious Windows and Mac problems with absolutely no solutions, and people just suck it up and deal with it.

The main difference is the reaction to the problems and not the problems themselves.

Mac or Windows user experiences a problem on Mac or Windows: "Stupid computers."

Mac or Windows user experiences a problem on Linux: "Stupid Linux. I'm going back to Mac/Windows. At least that works."

Old_Grey_Wolf
November 13th, 2008, 02:09 AM
That could happen on Windows or Mac, too, though.

Don't get me wrong, I am a Linux advocate.

I agree that it could happen with MS Windows. However, every time I took a kernel update with 6.10, 7.04, 7.10, and 8.04 it broke my wireless. It is rare that MS Windows does that.

The funny thing is that my wife was complaining this morning as I was leaving for work that a Windows update had broken her ability to connect to the Internet. When I got home from work I found that her USB wireless adapter wasn't fully plugged in. She was blaming that Da** Windows for breaking her computer. :)

crazyness003
November 13th, 2008, 04:43 AM
But Apple's support-- so helpful!
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2466?viewlocale=en_US
Check out my sig dog!


...every time I took a kernel update with 6.10, 7.04, 7.10, and 8.04 it broke my wireless. It is rare that MS Windows does that....
To the contrary, every upgrade i've ever done has in fact improved my system. I originally started with 5.10. I had no sound, wifi, modem (i used dialup at the time), bad video drivers, etc. Now (8.10), i have excellent sound, awesome video, flawless wireless (i swear my Internet in Linux is at leased 5x faster than in windows. no joke. Updating, uploading, downloading, webpage loading. all faster). I even have a working tablet pc and Webcam. If i had an aircard, interpid supports those now too (i havent used them, but im sure you have to download a package or two. Unlike windows: install driver. install software. incomparable,find different software, etc). I dunno, im an extreemely happy camper! I've gotten so comfortable with Linux from Ubuntu im thinking about using arch, puppy or even Slackware.

The funny thing is that my wife was complaining this morning as I was leaving for work that a Windows update had broken her ability to connect to the Internet. When I got home from work I found that her USB wireless adapter wasn't fully plugged in. She was blaming that Da** Windows for breaking her computer. :)
Iv never heard anyone (besides me) say that windows broke their computer. I've known that windows is lame since ME. Then in '01, learned about Linux. I figured out windows is bad before i had a reference point...thats, brutally, and honestly true.

Sporkman
November 13th, 2008, 05:19 AM
Nearly everyone in which I raise a conversation with about Computers, has either only just heard the name "Linux" or has never heard of it at all.

So my question is; Why do people not know what it is?
What are the reasons for it?


Because it isn't installed on any computers they see in the stores.

handy
November 13th, 2008, 06:09 AM
But Apple's support-- so helpful!
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2466?viewlocale=en_US

I don't know, we've had Apple computers since the end of 2000, & never needed Apple support. I had a warranty job done recently, that was taken care of via the dealer located an hour away.

poebae
November 13th, 2008, 07:10 AM
Ubuntu is still not ready for the average Joe/sephine. It is not ready to be advertised as such. Linux is getting closer everyday, being over confident in its friendliness & marketing it to the average Joe's too soon could be incredibly costly. imho. The bad name would stick longer than needed & the opposition would make sure of that.
Hmm good point. I stand corrected; maybe it's not time for that just yet.

Npl
November 13th, 2008, 12:31 PM
The way it used to be, & probably still is; if you have a problem with an MS product you phone their support, if MS accepts that responsibility for the problem then their support won't cost you anything, if they don't accept responsibility then it will most likely cost you, usually via credit card.I wasnt talking about support, I was talking about documentation. If you have problems in Windows theres a good chance your options are explained in the offline Help.
In linux the documentation exists of useless oneliners (talking about the Desktop), heck you even have to find out which components your distro uses before you know where to search in gobs of manpages. Funny if your distro has multiple packages to manage your network and theres no hint to which are running and how they may be interacting.

Not been my experience at all.

I've seen all sorts of mysterious Windows and Mac problems with absolutely no solutions, and people just suck it up and deal with it.

The main difference is the reaction to the problems and not the problems themselves.

Mac or Windows user experiences a problem on Mac or Windows: "Stupid computers."

Mac or Windows user experiences a problem on Linux: "Stupid Linux. I'm going back to Mac/Windows. At least that works."And I wonder how this relates to my post. Maybe you dont find a solution to Windows/Mac problems because you dont look deep enough?
I havent had a virus or something similar on Windows for years and Im not even using an AV or Firewall of some sorts. If you use some tools like "autoruns" on suspcious behaviour its easy to shoot weird stuff down - but this apparently aint as easy as learning tons of arcane and untintuitive commandline-tools.
And I havent run Linux for some time, mainly because Windows just "works" and doesnt have tons of small problems... and I can say I have thouroughly tried Linux for years.

To get back to what my previous post was about (and you convieniently ignored): with few exceptions each new Linux-Kernel breaks every Kernelmodule. Windows/Macs have a stable Interface for kerneldrivers, so its quite uncommon that a patched kernel breaks wireless (or grafics) on those systems. On Linux its the norm and, atleast for me, Ubuntus packagemanagement failed often enough to provide new kernelmodules at the same time leading me to hassles getting X running again.

handy
November 13th, 2008, 01:10 PM
I wasnt talking about support, I was talking about documentation. If you have problems in Windows theres a good chance your options are explained in the offline Help.
In linux the documentation exists of useless oneliners (talking about the Desktop), heck you even have to find out which components your distro uses before you know where to search in gobs of manpages. Funny if your distro has multiple packages to manage your network and theres no hint to which are running and how they may be interacting.

A wonderful thing I have found in the 3 years since I retired & closed my computer support business (where over 99% of my customers were using one version or another of windows), & personally migrated to Linux, (though my wife solely runs Apple & I am dual booting Arch on one of my machines which is an iMac) is that I no longer need any form of written documentation. I don't have to buy a windows Xp secrets book, or any other documentation. The Linux community has all the answers I need, & very quickly too. If I can't find an answer via searching for it, an answer is quickly forthcoming from the community. I really do thoroughly enjoy & appreciate being a part of a living & dynamic community of knowledge. There is no substitute for people helping each other because they want to, because that's how they themselves really want to be treated also.

There exists a heart in the Linux community, unfortunately it seems to me that MS sold theirs long before they had released win95.



And I havent run Linux for some time, mainly because Windows just "works" and doesnt have tons of small problems... and I can say I have thouroughly tried Linux for years.

Great. There are many happy windows users out there. I have no problem with that, use whatever you want to. Freedom of choice is what it is all about.



To get back to what my previous post was about (and you convieniently ignored): with few exceptions each new Linux-Kernel breaks every Kernelmodule. Windows/Macs have a stable Interface for kerneldrivers, so its quite uncommon that a patched kernel breaks wireless (or grafics) on those systems. On Linux its the norm and, atleast for me, Ubuntus packagemanagement failed often enough to provide new kernelmodules at the same time leading me to hassles getting X running again.

I've had problems in the past once or twice with kernel upgrades & my proprietary nVidia drivers. I've not experienced that this year, though Arch has been my main distro' in that time. There was an upstream kernel bug came through on arch a few weeks ago that gave me a good spurt on learning which I quite enjoyed.

As I've previously stated, Linux is not ready for the average Joe/sephine yet, though everyday it gets a little closer & it is just a matter of time for it to filter through & become a relevant part of our mainstream desktop culture. As this happens one of the benefits is that people will gain more choice, more freedom, more community, & as a bonus it won't cost them much or anything at all out of their pockets.

Linux just keeps on growing & getting better, & really quickly too. I wouldn't care in the slightest if it did not improve any more, as I'm completely happy with it just as it is right now. To be honest, it's far better than I need to be happy & satisfied.

Npl
November 13th, 2008, 01:48 PM
A wonderful thing I have found in the 3 years since I retired & closed my computer support business (where over 99% of my customers were using one version or another of windows), & personally migrated to Linux, (though my wife solely runs Apple & I am dual booting Arch on one of my machines which is an iMac) is that I no longer need any form of written documentation. I don't have to buy a windows Xp secrets book, or any other documentation.I never bought any Windows book either - because the included help and tooltips suffice in most cases (and for internals there is the plattform SDK).
The Linux community has all the answers I need, & very quickly too. If I can't find an answer via searching for it, an answer is quickly forthcoming from the community. I really do thoroughly enjoy & appreciate being a part of a living & dynamic community of knowledge. There is no substitute for people helping each other because they want to, because that's how they themselves really want to be treated also.There are worse hobbies to be had I guess, but as any hobby its timeconsuming. I dont want to mess with details of the OS anymore (reporting/fixing bugs, like figuring out which of the config files and gconf-entries dealing with ACPI actually does anything instead of beeing dead weight) but using it.
Having support-forums (which Im sure exist for Windows aswell, only I dint even have to resort to one) is nice, but a bit of an irony if your problem implies you cant reach the web.

There exists a heart in the Linux community, unfortunately it seems to me that MS sold theirs long before they had released win95.I dont understand how MS could ever grow that big with DOS and the the horrible Windows versions based on it. Thanks IBM. But Win2K and WinXP are fine products.
Great. There are many happy windows users out there. I have no problem with that, use whatever you want to. Freedom of choice is what it is all about.I have no problem with people prefering linux either, but regarding Desktop-Environments (just to avoid misunderstandings) Linux-Distros are still way behind in many areas.
I've had problems in the past once or twice with kernel upgrades & my proprietary nVidia drivers. I've not experienced that this year, though Arch has been my main distro' in that time. There was an upstream kernel bug came through on arch a few weeks ago that gave me a good spurt on learning which I quite enjoyed.Well, more indication that Linux is a hobby for you. IF you just wanted to get some work done quick such things woud **** you off. :)
As I've previously stated, Linux is not ready for the average Joe/sephine yet, though everyday it gets a little closer & it is just a matter of time for it to filter through & become a relevant part of our mainstream desktop culture. As this happens one of the benefits is that people will gain more choice, more freedom, more community, & as a bonus it won't cost them much or anything at all out of their pockets.And Im not disagreeing with you there, all things considered its an enormous accomplishment already. But Im a bit skeptical it will ever catch up as Linux also is very conservative holding to long past Unix oddities (how long did it take to get rid of atime, why arent butugly inodes replaced with a clean API) and moving at a slower pace than commercial desktops IMHO.

s.fox
November 13th, 2008, 02:00 PM
I think having most store bought PC's ship with XP or Vista doesn't help. People aren't aware of the alternatives simply because they have only ever seen Windows.

wildman4god
November 13th, 2008, 02:43 PM
Where I live, most collage students and some adults have at least heard of linux. I am the only person they know who actually uses and prefers it over windows or OSX and when I try to get them to try it the first thing they say is that it is too hard to learn, which they don't really know because they have never used it they just think it is because I use it and I had an IQ of 130 in 2002 (10th grade) (I haven't had it tested since then)

I have had to drill into their skulls that it is not that hard just a little different (I have little patience for people who are too afraid to learn or use their brains) but finally one of my friends have allowed me to install ubuntu inside windows using Wubi, so wish me luck in providing a good first impression of linux.

halovivek
November 13th, 2008, 02:45 PM
the education of the software is low.
there is a thinking most of the people ...
if some thing coming as free it will be bad or waste.

Mardoct909
November 13th, 2008, 05:37 PM
To add on to all that's already been said, GNU/FSF/Linux are all rather unheard of because...

It's free! (as in beer)

...

Sounds counter-intuitive, yes? But I've seen the reaction I get when I tell people it's free. (as in beer)

"It must be a virus!"

"It must suck, then!"

"It must be a trial!"

"That's because you pirated it!"

Windows has formed a standard that software isn't free unless it's a trial, malware, a scam, or it is inferior to its priced counter-parts. Largely because it's true when you're dealing with Windows.

I guess Linux is going to have to spread like its Open-source frind FireFox. One guy that people trust tells them it's better and free, others go after it on this advice, repeat.

We don't need an ad campaign because our product will spread on its own with its own merits. An ad campaign sees things spread because of exaggerations, misrepresentations, slander and/or blatant lies.

Which would you prefer?

handy
November 14th, 2008, 12:50 AM
I never bought any Windows book either - because the included help and tooltips suffice in most cases

Boy the internal help must have improved since XP. Whenever I tried it, it ran me in circles & never answered my question. So, I learned not to take that frustrating route.



(and for internals there is the plattform SDK).There are worse hobbies to be had I guess, but as any hobby its timeconsuming. I dont want to mess with details of the OS anymore (reporting/fixing bugs, like figuring out which of the config files and gconf-entries dealing with ACPI actually does anything instead of beeing dead weight) but using it.

Sounds to me like you should give Arch a whirl, it only uses what you put there, then after that upgrades are short & sweet, (daily if you like) it is easy to install (many find it quite enjoyable too) if you follow the Arch Beginners Guide (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners_Guide) to the letter. Using XFCE gives you a fast & light desktop which is notoriously stable & simple to use & maintain.



Having support-forums (which Im sure exist for Windows aswell, only I dint even have to resort to one) is nice, but a bit of an irony if your problem implies you cant reach the web.

I certainly needed one when I made the transition from windows to the distro's. Simple solutions to show stoppers is what so much of the beginners forum about. The word is that windows forums are unfriendly & arrogant, though I can't speak from experience as I used books & mostly empirical experience when I maintained customers windows systems.

As far as reaching the web is concerned when your system is broken in that department; a Ubuntu LiveCD (or some other distro') will usually do the job.



I dont understand how MS could ever grow that big with DOS and the the horrible Windows versions based on it. Thanks IBM. But Win2K and WinXP are fine products.

MS has contracts & agreements with original equipment suppliers, windows is installed on all but the tiniest percentage of new desktop machines & notebooks available today, let alone over the past 15 years. For the desktop there has been only Apple who MS have generally followed since the beginning, others like the Amiga & Atari have come & gone, (though the AmigaOS just refuses to die :-)) OS2 has been given its support no longer date by IBM, (though other companies will continue with it). Linux has won the server wars & is still developing the desktop & extremely rapidly. Some people think 5 years is a long time, the distro's in five years are going to be able to stand tall on the desktops & cultural infiltration just keeps on keeping on.



I have no problem with people prefering linux either, but regarding Desktop-Environments (just to avoid misunderstandings) Linux-Distros are still way behind in many areas.Well, more indication that Linux is a hobby for you. IF you just wanted to get some work done quick such things woud **** you off. :)

I can do whatever I need to quickly on Linux. I have no problems there, with 2 exceptions, I use Sandvox very simple wysiwyg web creation application & the eToys object oriented programming language based on Smalltalk, under Leopard. Neither of these are available in the Arch repo's, Sandvox will never be made available for Linux & someone needs to use the ABS & make eToys available in the Arch repo's.

[Edit:] I do have 1 problem with Linux that I will be very happy to see resolved. That is the difficulty to modify GTK+ themes. It is a time consuming & tedious job for all but those that revel in spending the time to learn how it is done & create new or seriously modify existing themes. For those of us that just want to modify the colours of a theme to suit our taste or eyesight it is a real pain. Eventually a GUI solution will appear, if I had the skills I would make it myself. :-)



And Im not disagreeing with you there, all things considered its an enormous accomplishment already.

8-)



But Im a bit skeptical it will ever catch up as Linux also is very conservative holding to long past Unix oddities (how long did it take to get rid of atime, why arent butugly inodes replaced with a clean API) and moving at a slower pace than commercial desktops IMHO.

The Linux & BSD kernel based OS's are the most popular choice for servers, due to a number of factors, their stability, security, price, the open code, the speed with which bugs are identified & repaired, the speed of the server system, the price & the community support.

I disagree with you that the FOSS & Linux kernel combination are being overtaken by the commercial desktops, but I can offer no proof.

Lets just see what the future brings? :)

darolu
November 15th, 2008, 10:38 AM
Nearly everyone in which I raise a conversation with about Computers, has either only just heard the name "Linux" or has never heard of it at all.

So my question is; Why do people not know what it is?
What are the reasons for it?

It is kind of stressful ¬¬
n00bs
enough said.

crazyness003
November 15th, 2008, 04:33 PM
n00bs
enough said.

+1 :lolflag:

But on a serious note. When you do come to a situation like that, www.DistroWatch.com (http://www.DistroWatch.com) is THE best place to direct newcomers. That's what sold me. As you can see, i've been in the Linux game since 2005, but only until 2007 did i really jump in. Now, 98% of my computing needs are satisfied by Linux (now only Ubuntu, but as handy suggested, arch is a good place to get a non-bloated OS, with only the tools you need to run a linux kernel + desktop environment).

So when someone asks make sure you explain what an Operating System (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system) really is (this is important). Have them look at distrowatch. tell them the differences, and dont really glorify Linux or any Distro. Just make suggestions. and if they dont believe you, hand them a live CD, and make sure they know how to read.
I'v had someone overwrite their HDD with the new Ubuntu LiveCD's. When they started complaining, I asked "Did you even read the firts option? It says Try Ubuntu without any changes to your computer."
They replied, "I didnt wanna mess up my system!" PHAIL!!!

http://lifehacker.com/assets/resources/2008/03/ubuntu_load.jpg

Just precautions. :wink: