Anybody think Inteprid was rushed?

[K.Morgan]

I remember when Hardy was released i had no problems downloading it and installing almost straight away and to be honest never really had any problems with it at all, but Intrepid is a very different story. From all the reports i have been reading both at this forum and others, there seems to be a lot of problems with this release, with way to many reports of people not being able to get it to install properly, not recognizing graphics cards and so on, and to top it all off there doesn't seem to be any real reason to upgrade from Hardy.

Maybe releasing Ubuntu every 6 months is starting to get a little difficult.

And finally i really wish Ubuntu would get a better design team that actually know what they are doing, i know you can customize Ubuntu to look the way you want but the initial design once installed is absolutely awful and makes Ubuntu look so cheap and basic.

[scragar]

If the number of threads reporting problems are anything to go by Ibex has been far more stable than Hardy or Gutsy were, so I'm inclined to disagree with you over that.

And nothing stops you contributing to the design team or whatever you know, open source thrives on input.

[K.Morgan]

That's good to know as far as the problems go, maybe it just seemed that way to me.

As far as design goes, there have been many many excellent designs that have been passed onto the Ubuntu design team for this intrepid release and it doesn't look like any of them were even considered, as they ended up using what they thought was best, hardly fitting with what's suppose to be an open source community.

[scouser73]

I can't see that Intrepid has been rushed, from the moment I downloaded the beta a few weeks back it felt like the finished article. I updated to the completed release and I've had no problems, whereas when I switched from Gutsy to Hardy there were a few problems I encountered, like my monitor not being detected.

Intrepid is the best so far, well in my opinion it is.

[steveneddy]

This same question has been asked after every release.

[Gausian]

This same question has been asked after every release.

This is true.

Intrepid feels very polished to me. I like it much better than Hardy.

[scragar]

As far as design goes, there have been many many excellent designs that have been passed onto the Ubuntu design team for this intrepid release and it doesn't look like any of them were even considered, as they ended up using what they thought was best, hardly fitting with what's suppose to be an open source community.

Oooh, there was a statement about this sort of thing I read this morning, I wonder if I can find it again...

Anyway, before I spend the next 3 hours searching a history log longer than my arm it goes something along the lines of:
"We try to consider all requests and advice offered, we just don't have time to comment on everything we decide not to use for it to look like we are considering everything"

So don't think it's been rejected without a second though, I'm sure there was a good reason for it being turned down if it was(in terms of default theme I think the brown has kinda sealed itself in, they can't change it now because the ubuntu icon will look strange without the brown)

[Phreaker]

I find this release quite polished.The older releases tended to have more problems(especially when the Ubiquity installer was introduced to Ubuntu)

[regomodo]

#

[klange]

Intrepid was not rushed.
The new features that were planned made it in. The bug fixes that were necessary were made.

The problem with Intrepid was that there just wasn't enough new stuff...

[cprofitt]

While there were some large problems during the BETA I think the product was not rushed. It has been stable for me minus a few issues that worked themselves out between the last beta and the actual release.

[blakjesus]

Im pretty sure that when Hardy was released that their were alot more problems that people were complaining about. I haven't tried Intrepid yet, but if its like Hardy was for me then it will all be fixed in about a week or so.

[Paqman]

If the number of threads reporting problems are anything to go by Ibex has been far more stable than Hardy or Gutsy were, so I'm inclined to disagree with you over that.


I'd agree.

I hang out a bit in Absolute Beginners, and it's all quiet on the Western Front even in there.

[deltaprime]

from what ive heard this release is super stable compared to the last few. cant wait to try it!

[MaxIBoy]

All I know is, Intrepid's wireless drivers caused my friend's computer to lockup every five minutes (not even ctrl-alt-backspace worked.) I had him install Hardy, and it was fine. (And it was even an old CD from before the first point release.)

Based on that, I'd say Intrepid will be unstable compared to Hardy on certain hardware.

Hardy was extremely stable for me from the beginning. Especially since the first point release, it's been rock solid. Intrepid wasn't designed for stability-- it was supposed to "Intrepidly" go where no release had gone before. But give it a couple months of updates, and Intrepid will be rock solid as well.

[Deep Blue]

I think Itrepid is quite nice! Can't wait to get my dual boot set-up. Remember, most of the changes aren't instantly apparent (new version of Gnome, Gimp etc...) but most are for the better. I think you might want to spend a day with the Ibex to really see what's new. Why would it be rushed though? The community loves everyone so much they wouldn't hand us [use your imagination]?

Regards,
Deep Blue. :3

[FuturePilot]

Here comes the mandatory post-release "$RELEASE sucks" threads....

[jay576]

I found this the best ubuntu install I have had. The only other version I remember not having much trouble was 6.06 and I did not install that until months after the release

[bscbrit]

I'm in the process of upgrading 7 networked computers from 8.04 to 8.10. So far, having completed 4 upgrades, I've only had a 50% success rate of upgrade and, on one that appeared to upgrade properly, I suffered from the Nautilus bug where the default programs for specific file types become scrambled. E.g when I tried to open a directory it actually opened Totem etc. This fault has been noted for some months in various bug reports.

I've spent the day on the Absolute Beginners' forum trying to help people with their problems which seem to be, predominantly in 2 areas, displays (and related xorg functions) and networking.

Many cannot get their displays working at the correct resolution. The lack of a replacement for displayconfig-gtk means that they are left trying to manually edit xorg.conf, which they can only do if they know what settings to type in there. I appreciate that many users have not experienced a problem but sufficient numbers have, and that does not lead to a very positive view of either Ubuntu or Linux.

Secondly, it seems you either love or hate the new NetworkManager. I think I sense that, if you are one of those who simply want a wireless link to their router, then it works. It took me a while to figure out where the new network configuration tool is stored and how to start configuring my network to my own particular requirements. Why change it from what it was? The previous Network Configuration applet (under System->Admin) worked well and was understood. Now its under (System->Preferences) and, from there, you cannot change parameters ("error: update not supported"). I've had to go back to a hand written interfaces file. I still haven't discovered how it 'should' be configured under the new scheme.

One upgrade appeared to complete successfully in 2-3 minutes but it had only managed to change the sources.list and one or two critical files before deciding that it had done enough. I had to go back and do the update manually using apt-get because sufficient changes had been made to stop Synaptic from doing its job and the Update Manager thinks that it has already done it. Searching the web shows that similar bugs were apparent in September during testing of the beta.

None of my hardware is ultra modern and it does not require the latest and greatest drivers, nor is it too old to be supported. My 7 machines vary in age between 6 months and 3 years and none of them should be considered as scrap heap material. I've also had numerous 'trivial' faults like usb mice not working etc but I would expect to see this from time to time. But having to resort to manual writing of xorg.conf and the interfaces file is not an improvement. I'm stopping upgrades until the situation stabilises.

If the release of Intrepid wasn't rushed then there was inadequate quality control somewhere along the line. I cannot dedicate a computer to testing beta software as they all have a real-world function to perform but I will willingly do what I can to test Jaunty to try to avoid a similar fate next time. But, a cursory search of earlier bug reports suggests that these problems were known about several weeks ago.

[mrgnash]

I upgraded from Hardy to the first Intrepid beta, and have had very few problems. Intrepid runs a lot faster on my system to boot. That said, as always there is no guarantee that it is going to work 100% on every piece of hardware out of the box, and it is still not for people who don't know what they're doing (unless it is preinstalled and configured).

[igknighted]

I'm in the process of upgrading 7 networked computers from 8.04 to 8.10. So far, having completed 4 upgrades, I've only had a 50% success rate of upgrade and, on one that appeared to upgrade properly, I suffered from the Nautilus bug where the default programs for specific file types become scrambled. E.g when I tried to open a directory it actually opened Totem etc. This fault has been noted for some months in various bug reports.

I've spent the day on the Absolute Beginners' forum trying to help people with their problems which seem to be, predominantly in 2 areas, displays (and related xorg functions) and networking.

Many cannot get their displays working at the correct resolution. The lack of a replacement for displayconfig-gtk means that they are left trying to manually edit xorg.conf, which they can only do if they know what settings to type in there. I appreciate that many users have not experienced a problem but sufficient numbers have, and that does not lead to a very positive view of either Ubuntu or Linux.

Secondly, it seems you either love or hate the new NetworkManager. I think I sense that, if you are one of those who simply want a wireless link to their router, then it works. It took me a while to figure out where the new network configuration tool is stored and how to start configuring my network to my own particular requirements. Why change it from what it was? The previous Network Configuration applet (under System->Admin) worked well and was understood. Now its under (System->Preferences) and, from there, you cannot change parameters ("error: update not supported"). I've had to go back to a hand written interfaces file. I still haven't discovered how it 'should' be configured under the new scheme.

One upgrade appeared to complete successfully in 2-3 minutes but it had only managed to change the sources.list and one or two critical files before deciding that it had done enough. I had to go back and do the update manually using apt-get because sufficient changes had been made to stop Synaptic from doing its job and the Update Manager thinks that it has already done it. Searching the web shows that similar bugs were apparent in September during testing of the beta.

None of my hardware is ultra modern and it does not require the latest and greatest drivers, nor is it too old to be supported. My 7 machines vary in age between 6 months and 3 years and none of them should be considered as scrap heap material. I've also had numerous 'trivial' faults like usb mice not working etc but I would expect to see this from time to time. But having to resort to manual writing of xorg.conf and the interfaces file is not an improvement. I'm stopping upgrades until the situation stabilises.

If the release of Intrepid wasn't rushed then there was inadequate quality control somewhere along the line. I cannot dedicate a computer to testing beta software as they all have a real-world function to perform but I will willingly do what I can to test Jaunty to try to avoid a similar fate next time. But, a cursory search of earlier bug reports suggests that these problems were known about several weeks ago.

50% success is a little low for an upgrade, but it is such a small sample size I'm not really surprised. On a production machine, ALWAYS do fresh installs. Use a separate /home and you wont even know the difference.

In my experience, Intrepid is the most polished Ubuntu release (as of release date), and I've used them all.

[SomeGuyDude]

It's an improvement, but frankly aside from a few little new features I didn't see what the difference was. Hardy actually seemed to be a big leap forward from Gutsy, but II to me is just a little smoothing out of Hardy's jagged edges.

[wolfen69]

In my experience, Intrepid is the most polished Ubuntu release (as of release date), and I've used them all.

i agree. although i thought feisty was pretty good also.

[bscbrit]

On a production machine, ALWAYS do fresh installs. Use a separate /home and you wont even know the difference.

I disagree. My problems have been with networking and display configuration, the details of each are not stored in the /home directory. I do have separate directories for /home but I was trying to avoid having to reconfigure a rather complicated network. It seems like I am not alone, so for a larger sample size see:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=963853

I'm not complaining. I've used linux for 8 years and Ubuntu exclusively since 5.10. I can see the work that has gone into Intrepid and I do appreciate it. But my experiences with 8.10 have not been pleasant.

[wolfen69]

[I]But my experiences with 8.10 have not been pleasant.

there is always going to be a small % of people that will have problems with a new release. it's a fact. but overall, i think it is a great release.

[Riffer]

I did an upgrade in the worst of conditions, my desktop was gone and I had a few programs that I installed that are not in the repos. Not only did I boot back to my original looking desktop, it was and has been stable since then (2 weeks).

I've pleasantly surprised by alot of the "under the hood" tweaks. My machine boots and shuts down faster, its snappier in performance and themes and icons are integrated better (Opera is the only program that doesn't use the system theme).

As someone suggested Ibez smoothed off the jagged edges of Hardy which in itself makes an upgrade worth while. What I have now is a polished, professional OS that definitely rivals MS and Mac.

[Polygon]

ive seen quite a few regressions

ubuntu does not start on my laptop unless i hold a key down (worked fine in hardy)

ubuntu does not even see my gfx card (worked fine in hardy)

nm-applet takes like 30 seconds to connect to my network now (compared to basically instantly in hardy)

the newer version of fglrx makes it so 3d games lag and i can no longer watch videos full screen because it skips and lags, when it played just fine in hardy.

seriously, what were they thinking when they made the fast user switch applet? Who thought that having two things telling you your pidgin status was a good idea?

but whatev.

[Phreaker]

So, We come to a conclusion that with every release Ubuntu is getting better and better.

[jordilin]

For me Intrepid is the best Ubuntu ever, installed like a charm, no ndiswrapper anymore. I had today a complete freeze while working, but that is just very rare and happens once in a lifetime.

[beno1990]

I haven't had any problems updating to Intrepid, apart from a couple of broken configurations (most notably compiz) which were easily fixed by deleting the configuration files in my home directory.

Overall, I think Intrepid is a good release, and I really like some of the fixes and new features.

[Greyed]

Of course it was. Let's see. Ubuntu, 6 month release cycle. Debian, the distribution whence Ubuntu comes, 3-5 year release cycle.

By its very nature every release of Ubuntu is rushed. Not news.

[sloggerkhan]

I'm getting the sense that there are some pieces of hardware that flat out have huge issues with ibex, but otherwise it's fine, Whereas normaly a lot of people have small issues on lots of hardware. So this time # of people with issues is smaller, but their problems are huger.

[smethurst]

I'm amazed that the CD eject bug wasn't fixed before the release:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/283316

After updating to 8.10, I ended up scratching a DVD when the tray unexpectedly closed again.

[nick09]

No and the only problem I have so far is the DVD-ROM drive closing itself(I can quickly grab it).

[itsStephen]

I don't think it was rushed, it just needs ATI support.

[bscbrit]

Sloggerkhan - You are absolutely correct! The problem is worse than with previous upgrades because, in 2 areas (networking and Xorg), the tools that people relied on to fix their problems have either changed or have been removed. As examples, in 8.10 how are you supposed to configure a mouse, or set up static IP connections for a network, or change your display configuration? NetworkManager has changed significantly, Network Configuration has moved to System->Preferences and will not allow updates from the GUI, and displayconfig-gtk has been taken out altogether. This has left people feeling helpless because they cannot fix the problems.

It might only affect a small minority but, for them, it leaves them with an unusable computer.

[steeleyuk]

You can set static IPs from the Network Manager configuration utilty. Essentially, the old network-admin dialog has been integrated into NM. Much better in my opinion...

[kevdog]

Just a thought b/c I have one computer with the random Hardy freeze bug that still persists in to Ibex kernel -- do the developers actually test their releases with multiple types of hardware? If you look at betas and their development along the way, there are complaints about things being broken for certain types of hardware, etc. Although there are a lot of reports on launchpad, it seems like in many cases these hardware related bugs are simply ignored.

To top it off, when a fix is found, an upgrade seems not to be issued. Particularly say for the Hardy Heron release which is supposed to be a LTS solution. If you are still supporting an LTS, have discovered a hardware fix, then release the workaround as an upgrade! I hate those reports on launchpad that say, this is going to be released and will be included with the next release. I'm fine with that mentality only for non-LTS releases. Invariably however with the next new release, other hardware problems creep up.

I've lived through several release dates now. It always seems like in many cases 2-3 steps forward, 1 step backwards. I have no experience in working on development, but it consistently amazes me how hardware that has been rock stable for several release cycles, suddenly becomes non-functioning. Its just very confusing and annoying. Once one of these problems bite you, you become very hesitant to recommend Ubuntu to a novice - such as other members of your family.

[eternalnewbee]

I too had some problems, after the upgrade, and I feel it was rushed a little bit, but with all the help from here on the forums, these problems were solved pretty quickly. One more thing. If the next release is any faster in performance than this Ibex, you/they should seriously consider naming it Intrepid again, but with the surname : Jaguar! (or is that name already been used by Apple? I'm not sure).

[rasmus91]

For me Intrepid has been better than any former Ubuntu Distro I've had... I miss Gutsy Sometimes though, but it doesn't really matter

[jamillikan]

I have been thrilled with Intrepid. Truly great, IMO. Certainly not rushed. Professional looking.

[bscbrit]

Steeleyuk - would you care to give me a clue as to where in the Menu I might find the Network Manager configuration utility? It does not appear on any of my Menus.

If you are referring to the System-Preferences->Network Configuration option then, as I stated in my previous post, it does NOT allow changes to my manual settings from that program. Perhaps it should but, for me and quite a few others, it doesn't. I am having to hand write the interfaces file.

Running 'sudo nm-applet' apparently does nothing either, and this action is the same on all 4 of my computers that have been upgraded to date.

If displayconfig-gtk was removed, then where is the gui equivalent (or any program for that matter) to allow me to change video and display settings using the new HAL interface? What programs I have got installed only find the wrong settings and do not give me an option to correct them. Manually writing xorg.conf again.

That's what makes me think that this has been rushed. There are some great improvements but the attention to detail is lacking.

[bscbrit]

Steeleyuk - would you care to give me a clue as to where in the Menu I might find the Network Manager configuration utility? It does not appear on any of my Menus.

If you are referring to the System-Preferences->Network Configuration option then, as I stated in my previous post, it does NOT allow changes to my manual settings from that program. Perhaps it should but, for me and quite a few others, it doesn't. I am having to hand write the interfaces file.

Running 'sudo nm-applet' apparently does nothing either, and this action is the same on all 4 of my computers that have been upgraded to date.

If displayconfig-gtk was removed, then where is the gui equivalent (or any program for that matter) to allow me to change video and display settings using the new HAL interface? What programs I have got installed only find the wrong settings and do not give me an option to correct them. Manually writing xorg.conf again.

That's what makes me think that this has been rushed. There are some great improvements but the attention to detail is lacking. I am not challenging you, and thank you for your suggestion as to how I might fix my problems but, for me at least, it is not working anywhere near as well as I hoped it would.

[steeleyuk]

Right click the nm-applet in the notification area > Edit connections... > Select your network > Edit > IP settings > Method > Select Manual

Or am I missing something?

Edit: just tested. Works fine for me.

[bscbrit]

Deleted - double post caused by DB problems.

[bscbrit]

Steeleyuk - Yep, the applet does not appear in the notification area of ANY of my 4 computers after the upgrade. We might be getting to the bottom of why people are struggling....

[steeleyuk]

Try typing nm-connection-editor at the terminal and seeing if the config window appears, if you haven't already.

[K.Mandla]

Anybody think Inteprid was rushed?
Nope.

Somebody always asks this after a release though. "My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who has all kinds of problems with Intrepid. So I think it must have been rushed."

[bscbrit]

Steeleyuk - Yes, I've got that one but it doesn't allow me to make changes. If I try running it as sudo it just crashes. Its the same on all 4 computers.

I've just started a fresh install on one of them to see if this is an 'upgrade only' issue or whether there is something else to look at. Thanks for your help. I'll be back in an hour or so with the news.

[bscbrit]

K.Mandla - if you would only read the posts immediately above and below yours you will realise that, for all of your experience, some of us have real problems with Ibex. And, yes, we think it has been rushed.

[bscbrit]

Steeleyuk - The fresh installation has given me the applet but it will not let me configure a manual network with persistent settings. I can change the settings for the current session but, as soon as I reboot, it changes back to DHCP.

I have a 7 computer network, each computer has 2 NICs and 2 computers are at a remote'ish site. They have to be able to power up to the correct settings on all NICs after a power failure. Easy under 8.04, but I've not found a way under 8.10.

I'll take this particular problem to a more appropriate thread as this is not what this thread was intended for. Many thanks for your help.

So, yes, I think Intrepid was rushed...

[mips]

bscbrit,

Long time no see, how goes it?

[earthpigg]

i think the entire concept of upgrading an operating system is inherently unstable. unless someone in beta had the same set of stuff installed prior to doing a beta upgrade, you are essentially doing the beta testing yourself.

if i had several organization-owned production machines i had to maintain... i'd just fresh install the LTS release every 3 years instead of going through the soft upgrade hastle every 6 months.

[bscbrit]

mips!

Hi, its good to be back. I've been absent due to personal problems, and because I could do more good helping people to install and use Ubuntu in person than I think I can do here. But I don't believe I've made many friends with my last 24 hours of posts :-) However, I've personally never experienced so many problems with an upgrade than I have with II. Most people - probably the huge majority - are pleased with it but on my systems and on those I help around here there have been numerous problems that have stopped computers from being usable.

Good to see that you are still around.

[bscbrit]

earthpigg. Yes you are correct, but the advantage of an upgrade should be that you do not have to reconfigure all the settings again. When you are looking at upgrading 7 completely different systems it is difficult to automate a clean install to such an extent that all the individual settings (displays, networks, preferences and individual data) are maintained on each computer. It's even harder when you are doing it for a charitable organisation with a budget of not very much.

I was surprised by this upgrade because although I expect bugs in individual programs, I did not believe that II could make such a mess of displays and networking - especially as the displays are neither very old or ultra modern, and the network is plain old wired ethernet which should be simple.

Still, I've got plenty to keep me going for a while!

[phidia]

I'd agree.

I hang out a bit in Absolute Beginners, and it's all quiet on the Western Front even in there.

This is so NOT true. There are a great many video issues with intrepid and they have been posted at the beginners section.

8.10's release is very recent so I don't think the problems are something to go all chicken little over though. In fact I think 8.10 is better than 8.04 and I've had a intrepid install since alpha 2.

I am concerned about one change that has been with Ubuntu since hardy.
it seems to have escaped the attention of many users but xorg 7.4 is substantially different than previous releases.

With the Ubuntu devs adopting xorg 7.4 the days of configuring your own xorg are gone. That could seem good but when things go wrong now editing your xorg isn't really an option.

I've spent a lot of time at the xorg site and the Ubuntu xorg wiki. There are a lot of gaps in how to correct xorg problems and that is reflected in the kinds of questions and problems appearing at the help forums.

The dpkg-reconfigure command(s) with or without the -phigh option are entirely automatic now. The user doesn't get to answer anything or select anything either. Again that all may appear good until there is a problem.

I really don't appreciate a change in xorg that cuts the user out of the configuration process.

[bscbrit]

Phidia.

Spot on, well said.

[OffHand]

I kept my fingers crossed but I just applied two distro upgrades, using update-manager -d, on a Toshiba Satellite Pro M10 and a newer Dell XPS M1530. Both are laptops and everything is working ootb. (except 1 or 2 minor tweaks)