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Hack4ev3r
November 24th, 2005, 02:05 PM
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Ubuntu-5-04-The-Hoary-Hedgehog-64-bit-Linux_W0QQitemZ7179011068QQcategoryZ41881QQcmdZVie wItem
this jerk wants 10 bucks for a ubuntu CD and 4 more bucks for sending outside of USA while ubuntu has ship-it and they give you free Cd's and free shipping this guy is an jerk i said what i had to say

Good night.

akurashy
November 24th, 2005, 02:12 PM
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Ubuntu-5-04-The-Hoary-Hedgehog-64-bit-Linux_W0QQitemZ7179011068QQcategoryZ41881QQcmdZVie wItem
this jerk wants 10 bucks for a ubuntu CD and 4 more bucks for sending outside of USA while ubuntu has ship-it and they give you free Cd's and free shipping this guy is an jerk i said what i had to say

Good night.

hmm, isn't it illegal to sell the cds without permission or whatsoever?

Hack4ev3r
November 24th, 2005, 02:21 PM
GPL doesn't support that stuff it is illegal.

Pablo_Escobar
November 24th, 2005, 02:24 PM
It is legal, he can say that he charges only for CD, burning and his time (10$ - hell of time), while the OS is free.
He can charge whatever he wants. Sad but true.
Some people here also sell Ubuntus CDs but most of them do it just to spread the Ubuntu to the masses and charge only the real price for a CD.

Hack4ev3r
November 24th, 2005, 02:31 PM
Yes but those aren't Cd's he burnt those are Cd's he received from shipit that's whats annoying about it..

tomski
November 24th, 2005, 02:45 PM
check this :

http://search.ebay.ca/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZzuluzkiller

he is selling loads of distro's & people are paying too
me thinks he needs a serious SLAP

or pass on the profits to the relative community's

artnay
November 24th, 2005, 02:46 PM
GPL doesn't support that stuff it is illegal.

GPL'ed stuff can be sold, stop spreading FUD.

tomski
November 24th, 2005, 02:53 PM
GPL'ed stuff can be sold, stop spreading FUD.
this aint FUD
the community's that create these distro's need all the help they can get and this guy/jerk is creaming (milking the profits)

if this is legal he should at least have respet and hand over some of the spoils

if not he is an A1 JERK

GeneralZod
November 24th, 2005, 03:04 PM
As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing unethical about this, let alone illegal. If you don't want someone to re-sell your (unmodified) work, don't release it under the GPL - it's that simple. Sure, it would be nice if he contributed the proceeds to the distros he is re-selling, but he is under no obligation to do so whatsoever.

Plus, shipping time for Ship-It CDs is often on the order of weeks, and I'm willing to bet these sellers can get CD's out to people much faster than that as they have fewer orders and are usually geographically closer so you can easily argue that he is adding value to what he re-sells. Also, I wouldn't be at all surprised if re-selling to individual buyers actually reduces the administrative burden on canonical.

megamania
November 24th, 2005, 03:11 PM
Plus, shipping time for Ship-It CDs is often on the order of weeks, and I'm willing to bet these sellers can get CD's out to people much faster than that as they have fewer orders and are usually geographically closer so you can easily argue that he is adding value to what he re-sells. I wouldn't be at all surprised if re-selling to individual buyers actually reduces the administrative burden on canonical.

Well, if we all start ordering 1000 cd's in order to sell them, shipping times will become even longer.
Furthermore, if "shipping time for Ship-It CDs is often on the order of weeks", I don't see how they can deliver the cd's more quickly, since they have to wait for the cd's to be delivered to them and then they try to sell them.

Regarding the legal-illegal debate, I don't want to get into it - but one thing is sure from my point of view: it is absolutely sad in general that so many people try to make easy money out of other people's work. Linux wouldn't be here if in the world there were only people like these ones.

BWF89
November 24th, 2005, 03:15 PM
The GPL wasn't created to deprive anyone of a profit. But if your too lazy to go a google search for the distro you want to see if theres another way to get it before you buy it off some guyon eBay it's your fault and not his.

GeneralZod
November 24th, 2005, 03:21 PM
Well, if we all start ordering 1000 cd's in order to sell them, shipping times will become even longer.


I'd wager that dispatching 1000 CD's to one address would take far less of Canonical's time, money and effort than 1 CD to each of 1000 addresses. Although I'd definitely agree that someone who orders 1000 CDs without even knowing that he can re-distribute at least half of them would be a gross misuse of the system and definitely "jerk-esque" behaviour :)



Furthermore, if "shipping time for Ship-It CDs is often on the order of weeks", I don't see how they can deliver the cd's more quickly, since they have to wait for the cd's to be delivered to them and then they try to sell them.


Counting from the date of release, you're correct; however, if I want a CD right now (a few weeks after release) my best bet (if I don't have broadband, that is) is definitely to go with a re-seller on eBay. The small price (and with Free Software, you can pretty much guarantee someone is selling them for a small price with ) would be worth it to me for the convenience.



Regarding the legal-illegal debate, I don't want to get into it - but one thing is sure from my point of view: it is absolutely sad in general that so many people try to make easy money out of other people's work. Linux wouldn't be here if in the world there were only people like these ones.

I doubt he's exactly raking it in - no one re-selling Free Software is going to be living the life of a King off of the hard work of others :) But, in general, I do agree with you. However, the beauty of Free Software is that it is so abundant that if one person tries to screw the system and monopolise the distribution while charging exorbitant fees, he can easily be undercut by some other seller who wishes only to re-distribute for a fair price, and people will buy from this guy. The Free Market at its finest :)

What I would object to:

- As mentioned, tying up the system by ordering 1000 CD's when you know that you'll only shift a small fraction;
- Outright lying about the availability of these CD's - "Only available from this store for $50 - order from anywhere else, and you'll get burnt. Downloading them is illegal!"
- Actively shutting out competition, which is pretty much impossible with eBay and Free Software.

uberlinux
November 24th, 2005, 04:10 PM
he can't possibly be making that much money on the ubuntu ones, and noone will buy the other ones, but it still sucks

artnay
November 24th, 2005, 04:24 PM
this aint FUD
the community's that create these distro's need all the help they can get and this guy/jerk is creaming (milking the profits)

if this is legal he should at least have respet and hand over some of the spoils

if not he is an A1 JERK

Yeah, I'm with you. I think it's morally wrong to sell those CDs but there's nothing illegal in it. He should donate at least 50 % of incomes to Ubuntu via Paypal. :confused:

bwog
November 24th, 2005, 06:15 PM
Shipit takes some time, but there may be local ubuntu communities in your country where volunteers send you CDs. You may have to pay costs for mailing them because the volunteers are not allways milionaires :)

There are more people selling distributions. They make CDs with recent updates and ask money for the CD, not for linux. There is no problem with that, especially when you inform buyers that the CDs contain free material.

Ordering free CDs from the ubuntu foundation and selling them is morally objectionable, in my opinion. These CDs are meant for people without broadband.

ssam
November 24th, 2005, 06:52 PM
its a good think that you can buy linux cds. unless you have uncapped broadband most iso are too big to download. personally i'd use somewhere like http://www.linuxmedia.co.uk/ to get them.

poptones
November 24th, 2005, 06:56 PM
I bought a Shirley Temple DVD for 99 cents that ended up about five bucks with shipping and handling which, I think, is still a very fair price. I doubt the seller paid more than fifty cents for the DVD as the films are now public domain. I could probably have found them free elsewhere but I wanted the conveneince of a DVD. This person was SELLING public domain works! The horror!

There's nothing unethical about it. The DVDs saved me the time of locating the individual films and the hours spent downloading them, and for a ridiculously low price. I have sold cds on ebay and I gave it up - it's too damn much work for the meager profit. You get the order, you then have to box it, label it, arrange pickup or drop it off, then paypal takes their cut and ebay takes their cut - a beatles record I sold for about 8 bucks I ended up with slightly more than half in my paypal account. Given the time I spent mucking with this thing that comes to about 8 bucks an hour - not much more than poverty wages.

The oint of open source is to provide us all a communal asset. That asset may be exploited in a variety of ways. If you are a consultant the source is part of your toolbox - is it then unethical to charge money for your time if you make use of that open source toolbox?

People have to eat, and you can't eat code.

megamania
November 25th, 2005, 11:17 AM
I bought a Shirley Temple DVD for 99 cents that ended up about five bucks with shipping and handling which, I think, is still a very fair price. I doubt the seller paid more than fifty cents for the DVD as the films are now public domain.
[...]
This person was SELLING public domain works! The horror!
[...]
There's nothing unethical about it.
[...]
If you are a consultant the source is part of your toolbox - is it then unethical to charge money for your time if you make use of that open source toolbox?


Sorry but you're mixing various concepts here.

We are discussing if it is correct and fair to order 100 (or 1000) cd's (that Canonical sends for free) in order to sell them.

We all know that public domain can be sold, that GPL doesn't forbid making a profit, but in my humble opinion if you spend your life trying to make easy money out of other people's hard work, you simply suck.

poptones
November 25th, 2005, 07:28 PM
We are discussing if it is correct and fair to order 100 (or 1000) cd's (that Canonical sends for free) in order to sell them...

Sorry, it's no different. It's far easier (and cheaper) for canonical to send 100 CDs to a single address than to send ten cds to ten addresses or 100 cds to 100 addresses. The person offering onesy-twosies via expedited shipping is in fact providing a service to canonical (and to the customers wanting ubuntu) and deserves to be compensated for his or her efforts.

tomski
November 28th, 2005, 12:58 PM
i realy think this guy is out of order, all these linux devs who have crafted these distro's and this guy is sat at the end of a garden rack that he has shoved into ebay
he needs to be told
'look mate, we dont mind you reselling our free product but if your gonna continue to do this please do this in a decent manner and give us some of the profit. i know this is not illegal but you are hurting the open source communities moral's so please go about this the right way and at least support the creators of the products you are selling even if they are free!'

egon spengler
November 28th, 2005, 03:24 PM
^^
The thing is though you would have to imagine that Canonical have foreseen this scenario arising and yet still decided to go ahead with the cd scheme as it is. I'm sure that they could have added "not for sale" labels on the cds or some form of legal disclaimer regarding the copyrighted artwork making it illegal to sell the cds if they wanted to.

In the absence of an official statement I just think that they don't really care. It's not really losing them money, all it is doing is gaining them users.

Another thing is that we all assume that the guy hasn't donated anything to ubuntu, how do we know this?

I notice that there are quite a few shops that sell Linux cds and nobody bats an eyelid, it seems to be only individuals selling cds that gets people vex

Rochvellon
November 28th, 2005, 04:06 PM
you are hurting the open source communities moral'sThese guys know no morale...

they could have added "not for sale" labels on the cds or some form of legal disclaimerThat's a good idea...