What is "billion"?

[xlinuks]

Hi,
Since English is not my native language I'm wondering how do you people know what a billion means since, according to wikipedia, it means both "one million million" and "one thousand million". If so, how do you make the difference when someone says like "15 billion times"?

[tuxxy]

Correct me if im wrong but a billion is 1 million million in england, USA billion is only 1 thousand million

[LaRoza]

Hi,
Since English is not my native language I'm wondering how do you people know what a billion means since, according to wikipedia, it means both "one million million" and "one thousand million". If so, how do you make the difference when someone says like "15 billion times"?

It is a vague term. It is best to use scientific notation to write it out.

[Canis familiaris]

1000 million I think.
I prefer our Indian system though.

[Therion]

Thousand:
1,000
Million:
1,000,000
Billion:
1,000,000,000



See the pattern?

[LaRoza]

1000 million I think.
I prefer our Indian system though.

10^9

das lakh

See this for reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_large_numbers

http://www.hindilearner.com/hindi_number_system.html

[LaRoza]

Thousand:
1,000
Million:
1,000,000
Billion:
1,000,000,000

See the pattern?

That isn't always used. "Billion" also refers to 10^12

[Canis familiaris]

10^9

das lakh

See this for reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_large_numbers

http://www.hindilearner.com/hindi_number_system.html
Another Link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_numbering_system

[Therion]

That isn't always used. "Billion" also refers to 10^12
I worked abroad for many years and have never seen anything BUT the short notation used to indicate 1B; not in business anyway. I'm sure there are exceptions but the short notation (10^9 if you prefer) is what seems to be used in the business community abroad.

[LaRoza]

Another Link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_numbering_system

Thanks. (My search of wikipedia missed that, and I got the history of the numerals)

[Therion]

Now I'm curious...

If one billion = 10^12, then what do you call the number that comes after 999,999,999?

One... What??

[xlinuks]

Correct me if im wrong but a billion is 1 million million in england, USA billion is only 1 thousand million

So when I watch a show, a movie or anything else I gotta know where's the talking person coming from. Nice, nice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion

[Npl]

originally bi-llion = million^2 (trillion = million^3, etc.). The notation of 1000*million is from US-English originally... since then alot countries that have english as language favoured one or the other notation. AFAIK its only english where this is ambigous.
Also alot of very rich people probably prefer to call themself billionairs instead of getting mixed up with lowly millionairs.

[smartboyathome]

Now I'm curious...

If one billion = 10^12, then what do you call the number that comes after 999,999,999?

One... What??

One Milliard. Seriously, look it up on Wikipedia. :)

[xlinuks]

It is a vague term. It is best to use scientific notation to write it out.

OK, (but) I always only hear "billion" (heard it like a thousand times in movies and on TV), but never "trillion". Perhaps cause I'm mostly watching American stuff.

[LaRoza]

I worked abroad for many years and have never seen anything BUT the short notation used to indicate 1B; not in business anyway. I'm sure there are exceptions but the short notation (10^9 if you prefer) is what seems to be used in the business community abroad.

I'll take your word for it :-) However, if there is a need for such numbers, one is either dealing with a lot of money, and shouldn't even risk such vagueness, or dealing with astronomy, where you may be dealing with a rather expensive piece of equipment and don't want to risk another stupid error (the Mars thingy, we all remember it). Scientists would use scientific notation anyway, so I am leaving them out.


Now I'm curious...

If one billion = 10^12, then what do you call the number that comes after 999,999,999?

One... What??

Did you see the link I posted? It has a handy chart.

[Therion]

One Milliard. Seriously, look it up on Wikipedia. :)
I've worked in both London and Antwerp handling some pretty large numbers for some pretty large corporations and never once have I encountered any ambiguities regarding 1B being anything but 10^9.

Quit living by what Wikipedia says.

[forrestcupp]

And in long notation, the number 1,000,000,000,000 is actually called a billiard.

As I think about how the same term, billion, can be thought of in two different ways, it makes me ponder another term. What is a troop? Is a troop one soldier, or a group of soldiers?

[fballem]

Hi,
Since English is not my native language I'm wondering how do you people know what a billion means since, according to wikipedia, it means both "one million million" and "one thousand million". If so, how do you make the difference when someone says like "15 billion times"?

It depends on three factors: 1) where you are at, 2) who are you talking to, and 3) what are you talking about.

If you are talking about money, then 1 billion is 1,000 million - always! (this is factor 3).

You do have to be careful with abbreviations in the financial world. In strict usage 1M is 1,000, and 1MM is 1,000,000. In newspapers, however, 1M can be either 1,000 or 1,000,000. (this is factors 1) and 2)).

In many places outside of the UK, Ireland, and Continental Europe, 1 billion is 1,000 million. I hesitate to say most places, because I don't know what the rules are in Asian or African Commonwealth countries.

Within the UK, Ireland, and Continental Europe, other than money, 1 billion is either 1,000 million or 1,000,000 million. You will need to know your audience - either by asking them first, by knowing exactly the context in which you are speaking or writing, or by stating your definition of 1 billion if there is any possibility of confusion.

I very much admire anyone who has learned English as a second language. It is my mother tongue, and even then I get it wrong.

It doesn't help that there are multiple 'standard' ways of spelling and saying things.

For example, depending on context, a 'boot' is a specific type of footwear, or the back part of an automobile that may be used to carry items, such as suitcases. I am reasonably sure that there are other definitions. The type of footwear is universally understood by most English speakers, but a North American speaker will have a problem with the car part - it's referred to as a 'trunk' in North America.

Then there are different spellings for the same word, like 'program(me)', 'hono(u)r', 'analyze/analyse', and 'learnt/learned', which vary depending on where you are. In some places, multiple spellings for the same word are considered acceptable. For example, in Canada, both 'honour' and 'honor' would be considered acceptable in most circumstances. Having said that, 'programme' is no longer used in most contexts.

As well, there are the homonyms, some of which include 'there/their/they're', 'to/two/too', and 'for/four/fore'.

You would think that English could be written phonetically, but consider, for example, the various ways that the 'f' sound is spelled in English (f,ff,gh, ph, ieu, ...).

By the way, please be careful with a gallon, which is a different measurement in the United States than it is elsewhere in the English-speaking world. If I remember correctly, a U.S. Gallon is roughly 4/5 of an Imperial Gallon.

As far as I know, the last letter of the English alphabet is pronounce 'zed' - except in the United States where it is pronounced 'zee'. It took me a long time to catch the significance of the advertising catch phrase 'ez'.

If ubuntu is 'A person is a person only through other people', then English is 'A language is a language only through other languages'.

While those who are giving us ubuntu (the linux distro) have nothing to apologise for, I have to wonder if those of us who speak English have much to apologize for inflicting this on the rest of the world.

Regards,

[gnuvistawouldbecool]

Personally when asked this question I would say it is 10^12, but have never heard it used that way, or at least, have heard it very rarely. If it were up to me, everyone would use SI prefixes though, because they are the same everywhere.
Kilo
Mega
Giga
Tera
peta
exa
zetta
yotta

Much simpler really, If you happen to like doing things that way.

Plus, it'd be great to see the stock market values read as "One Mega Dollar/Pound/Yen/whatever"

[Npl]

It depends on three factors: 1) where you are at, 2) who are you talking to, and 3) what are you talking about.

If you are talking about money, then 1 billion is 1,000 million - always! (this is factor 3).Nope, thats a milliard around here, and people are milliardairs.

[mihai.ile]

you have here at the bottom which countries uses what:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales

[truby]

I see the pattern Therion,
Thanks for the input. 9 zero's with any number in front of it will look great in my bank account.

Truby

[fballem]

Nope, thats a milliard around here, and people are milliardairs.

Not sure where here is, but I have always heard Bill Gates referred to as a 'billionaire' not a 'milliardaire'. I am also wondering about context, since I have worked in several places in the world, and when dealing with money, particularly in the financial services sector, one billion is always understood as 1,000,000,000 not 1,000,000,000,000. Having said that, it is based on my experience and I'm always happy to learn.

For this reason, could I please ask you to provide some information around the context in which 'milliardaire' is used.

Many thanks,

[LaRoza]

I've worked in both London and Antwerp handling some pretty large numbers for some pretty large corporations and never once have I encountered any ambiguities regarding 1B being anything but 10^9.

Quit living by what Wikipedia says.

So you worked in two cities in Europe and automatically assume everyone else uses the same scale?

Obviously, from the posts here, individuals use the long scale and some use the short scale.

Assuming doesn't help.

Wikipedia is a handy resource. Shall I get other sources?

Since you have haven't encountered any ambiguities, it is not logical to assume no one else will.

[mr.propre]

Nope, thats a milliard around here, and people are milliardairs.


True in Belgium, at least when u referring to EURO, could be that its one billion when you speak about dollar.

[Npl]

For this reason, could I please ask you to provide some information around the context in which 'milliardaire' is used.

Many thanks,Im from Austria for the record, but its the same for Germany and I believe (german speaking) Switzerland
aswell. I dunno what information you are looking for, but you can start looking at the search results for bill gates (in german language).

Googling for Bill Gates and Milliardaire (http://www.google.at/search?hl=de&client=opera&rls=de&hs=00G&q=bill+gates+milliard%C3%A4r&btnG=Suche&meta=lr%3Dlang_de)

Googling for Bill Gates and Billionaire (http://www.google.at/search?hl=de&client=opera&rls=de&hs=jgb&q=bill+gates+billion%C3%A4r&btnG=Suche&meta=lr%3Dlang_de) (note that (nearly?) all hits are in english language - google is apparently smart enough to seek for the english verb aswell)

Can it be that the people you work with, know they need "billion" instead if they talk "internationally"? Your point certainly isnt true for the public.

[semitone36]

Silly british. Here is the American layout as I was taught in fourth grade!:

10^0 = one
10^1 = ten
10^2 = hundred
10^3 = thousand
10^4 = ten thousand
10^5 = hundred thousand
10^6 = million
10^9 = billion
10^12 = trillion
10^15 = quadrillion
10^18 = quintillion
10^21 = sextillion
10^24 = septillion
10^27 = octillion
10^31 = nonillion
10^33 = decillion

everything else is just too damn big.

[fballem]

Im from Austria for the record, but its the same for Germany and I believe (german speaking) Switzerland
aswell. I dunno what information you are looking for, but you can start looking at the search results for bill gates (in german language).

Googling for Bill Gates and Milliardaire (http://www.google.at/search?hl=de&client=opera&rls=de&hs=00G&q=bill+gates+milliard%C3%A4r&btnG=Suche&meta=lr%3Dlang_de)

Googling for Bill Gates and Billionaire (http://www.google.at/search?hl=de&client=opera&rls=de&hs=jgb&q=bill+gates+billion%C3%A4r&btnG=Suche&meta=lr%3Dlang_de) (note that (nearly?) all hits are in english language - google is apparently smart enough to seek for the english verb aswell)

Can it be that the people you work with, know they need "billion" instead if they talk "internationally"? Your point certainly isnt true for the public.

I may not have been clear ... I believe that the Original Poster was asking about English. I absolutely agree that in other languages, such as French, the word 'billion' should normally be translated into English as 'trillion', since 'billion' in French is 1 million millions and in English would normally be 1 thousand millions. In addition, I was speaking in the context of money, and in English, the term 'billion' is generally understood to mean 1 thousand million units. It just goes to show how 'context-sensitive' a language English is!

If there is a French Canadian speaker out there, I would be curious to know whether 'billion' in French is 1 million millions or 1 thousand millions. I learned my French primarily in Europe and I don't have access to a Canadian reference.

[Alasdair]

I'm from the UK and this whole billion = 10^12 thing is completely new to me, I never realized people here thought it was anything other than 10^9

[pp.]

I've worked in both London and Antwerp handling some pretty large numbers for some pretty large corporations and never once have I encountered any ambiguities regarding 1B being anything but 10^9.

They were trying to be polite and used the US-American custom just to make sure you understood them. 8-]


...If it were up to me, everyone would use SI prefixes though, because they are the same everywhere.
Kilo
Mega
Giga
Tera
peta
exa
zetta
yotta

Much simpler really, If you happen to like doing things that way.

That's the reason why we see an exceptional number of members here with frightfully slow internet access, often measured in millibits per second.

[fballem]

At this point, I have to feel sorry for the Original Poster, who asked what they thought was a very simple question. Who knew how much fun the rest of us would have with our varying answers!:lolflag:

Regards,

p.s. I normally don't like emoticons, but in this case, it's totally appropriate.

[itreius]

Not sure where here is
Check this link

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milliarde

Now check all the languages on the left side

From my experience, all German speaking countries use "milliarde" instead of billion. The word comes from French, so I suppose the French use it too. Most Slavic countries also use the word (with billion being used exclusively for 1,000,000,000,000)

[M_the_C]

I'm from the UK and this whole billion = 10^12 thing is completely new to me, I never realized people here thought it was anything other than 10^9I'm also from the UK. I've heard of billion being different, but haven't come across anyone using it as anything other than one thousand, million.

[sicofante]

1 billion = 10^12, or "a million of millions" in Spain and (I'm about to bet) in most Spanish speaking countries.

We call 10^9 just "one thousand millions", although the word "millardo" (coming from French countries) is also accepted here.

[fballem]

If there is a French Canadian speaker out there, I would be curious to know whether 'billion' in French is 1 million millions or 1 thousand millions. I learned my French primarily in Europe and I don't have access to a Canadian reference.

I think that I got my answer regarding French Canadian. The Office québécoise de la langue française uses the Grand dictionnaire terminologique as a reference. The term 'billion' is defined here: http://www.granddictionnaire.com/BTML/FRA/r_Motclef/index800_1.asp

In the definition, it is defined as 'Mille milliards, soit le chiffre 1 suivi de 12 zéros.', which is the long-scale definition of 1 billion. This is consistent with French used elsewhere in the world.

If you click on the English link, which is 'Billion', it does offer a synonym of 'Trillion', specifying that this is United States usage.

As a Canadian, it does make me wonder if this confusion, in part, explains the occasional 'two solitudes' experiences that we sometimes have here.

[uberdonkey5]

I'm british and definately go with 1 billion = 10^9

a trillion is 10^12
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillion

though again, this shows that it varies in interpretation.

However, I believe most british people will think 1000,000,000
when you say a billion

(interestingly that would confuse europeans, because they use a comma for a decimal point and a decimal point for a comma i.e: for them I should have written 1000.000.000)

[smartboyathome]

If you talk to most native English speaking people, then you will probably get 10^9. As said on Wikipedia, Billion equalling 10^12 is more common in languages other than English.

[LaRoza]

(interestingly that would confuse europeans, because they use a comma for a decimal point and a decimal point for a comma i.e: for them I should have written 1000.000.000)

In print, I find spaces are best, so 1 000 000 000, or scientific notation.

[fballem]

Hi,
Since English is not my native language I'm wondering how do you people know what a billion means since, according to wikipedia, it means both "one million million" and "one thousand million". If so, how do you make the difference when someone says like "15 billion times"?

So my question to xlinuks is whether they have the answer to the question that they were originally asking. It would appear that in most languages other than English, 'billion' is one million millions. In English, particularly in common usage, 'billion' is one thousand millions.

Hope this helps,

[xlinuks]

xlinuks thinks he needs to shoot in the face those who prefere to use the notion billion knowing that it means different numbers among different english people.

[LaRoza]

xlinuks thinks he needs to shoot in the face those who prefere to use the notion billion knowing that it means different numbers among different english people.

Well, in most usages, it just means "a big number".

[xlinuks]

Well, in most usages, it just means "a big number".

I was confused about the actual sum of the Bush bailout plan of 700 billion $, so the difference between 700 million million $ and 700 thousand million $ is very big, so the notion "a big number" doesn't cut it for me in this case. Thanks anyway.

[fballem]

I was confused about the actual sum of the Bush bailout plan of 700 billion $, so the difference between 700 million million $ and 700 thousand million $ is very big, so the notion "a big number" doesn't cut it for me in this case. Thanks anyway.

In this context, it's definitely 700 thousand million.

[ssam]

in the UK billion means 10^9. for example in the news and finance http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7658277.stm

£50*10^9 bailout to the banks ~= £1000 per UK citizen (GDP per capita is ~£25,0000)

£50*10^12 bailout to the banks ~= £1,000,000 per UK citizen. that would be (even more) crazy.

outside finance, numbers that big are not used much. In school we are taught the global population is ~6 billion (so billion is 10^9).

in science we use scientific notation. but sometimes talk of billions being 10^9.

occasionally you hear mention of a british billion, but usually the person clarifies what it means.

so unless you are reading an old english book/paper, you can safely assume billion is 10^9

[billgoldberg]

Hi,
Since English is not my native language I'm wondering how do you people know what a billion means since, according to wikipedia, it means both "one million million" and "one thousand million". If so, how do you make the difference when someone says like "15 billion times"?

1 billion is a million x million.

I don't know the english word but a thousand million here is called a "miljard".

[BuffaloX]

Nope, thats a milliard around here, and people are milliardairs.

Same here.