Apple Mac Pro emits toxic carginogenic gases

[jeyaganesh]

Read this http://www.palluxo.com/2008/10/04/apple-mac-pro-computers-emit-carcinogenic-fumes-lab-data/

They found Apple Mac Pro emits deadliest toxic gases that are enough to cause leukemia (blood cancer):(.

[Chessmaster]

Read this http://www.palluxo.com/2008/10/04/apple-mac-pro-computers-emit-carcinogenic-fumes-lab-data/

They found Apple Mac Pro emits deadliest toxic gases that are enough to cause leukemia (blood cancer):(.

Just rumours and hearsay until they publish the findings, peer reviewed would be best as well.

Still, if it is true, I wonder if it is only the Apple Mac Pro, or loads of other laptops as well? Next they will carry stickers saying "only use in a well ventilated space".

[Heinzelotto]

what a pathetic article.


If you feel that use of your Mac Pro computer causes irritation to your eyes, nose or throat, you should stop using it immediately and seek medical help.

pure scaremongering. Drinking water is probably just as dangerous since even in water are some molecules of any toxic substance you can imagine.

But wait! There is that picture of some worried woman. What the hell does that add to the article?

By the way: As they say, only the "Mac Pro" is affected.

...

I just browsed the site some more and to me it seems like an anti-apple propaganda site.

Read news critically!

[jeyaganesh]

In that article, they mentioned that some non-government environmental group gave 11/100 mark to Apple inc.

[Chessmaster]

In that article, they mentioned that some non-government environmental group gave 11/100 mark to Apple inc.

Which is the mark that many big computer manufactures probably get as well. One doesn't suspect that making computers can ever be "green" - loads of energy, plastics, mining of rare metals, lead, etc etc.

PS: not that I am defending Mac, just that unless one sees what other computer manufacturers got it seems pretty meaningless.

Still, better to recycle them than bury them in the back yard ay.

[Giant Speck]

If this was true, I'd laugh. Out loud.

[pp.]

The article is a bit short on quantitative data. It does, however, mention some of the substances the product emits.

I find nothing at all unusual about consumer products emitting fumes in quantities which put the health of their owners at risk. There has been an uncomfortable number of products which have only improved after the intervention of NGOs or even after TV shows which center on consumer interests. Furniture and consumer electronics are frequent causes of complaint.

If your computer stinks and you start developing eye troubles or respiration problems, chances are that the two could be related, peer review or no peer review.

[Chessmaster]

If your computer stinks and you start developing eye troubles or respiration problems, chances are that the two could be related, peer review or no peer review.

They could be related. But wouldn't a double blind test be better than anecdotal hypothesising.

[pp.]

They could be related. But wouldn't a double blind test be better than anecdotal hypothesising.

Depends. If you suspect one product of emitting fumes and can find many similar complaints in the internet and fail to find man similar complaints for comparable products with a comparable user base, then there's cause for concern.

In that case, it'd be not a double blind test which is called for but a quantitative analysis. You use a double blind test to compare the quality of products such as chocolade. You use a quantitative analysis to determine the presence or absence of substances.

If true, it does not speak well for Apple if they consistently ignore customers' complaints about potential health hazards. They could at least acknowledge that there has been a number of complaints, and that the matter was being looked into.

Having quality issues in your production faccilities is not something to be ashamed of. Doing nothing to insure that quality is being managed is shameful.

[smoker]

hmm, i thought 'An apple a day kept the Doctor away!'
:-)

[Chessmaster]

In that case, it'd be not a double blind test which is called for but a quantitative analysis. You use a double blind test to compare the quality of products such as chocolade. You use a quantitative analysis to determine the presence or absence of substances.


Sure, a quantitative analysis to tell if there is substance in the air (but agin, it is no good to do this from a subjective point of view, ie. my computer smells so that must be making my eyes water and skin itch). But a quantitative analysis isn't going to necessarily tell us the causal link. People smell chemicals, read about them in the news paper, and blame their illness on them. So many people claim that arial spraying of pesticides makes them sick, but when there is blind (i.e. spray with water say) they often find it is just a subjective bias.

A double blind test to remove subjective bias to tell if it actually is effecting people or if they just "think" that it effects them. A quantitative test is only going to tell us if those chemicals are present at some level, not whether those chemicals are the actual cause of someone irritation.

All I am saying is that people always tend to blame their illnesses on things that are probably not causally related to that illness - especially if they read it in the news or on the tv. Double blind will remove that subjective bias.

[pp.]

The effects of solvents and constituents of plastics in the air on human health has been studied a really impressive number of times. It does not depend on the source of the fume. I.e., it is utterly irrelevant if the benzene comes from an Apple computer, a motor car or a color print which hangs in a frame in your dining room.

Hence, it suffices to determine if the product emits noxious substances, and what amount. Most countries have legal limits on the amount of substances a consumer products intended for indoors use can produce.

[I-75]

Well at least its proprietary gases.

[Rgibbons]

I for one can attest that many computers emit toxic VOC's. See below:

A Little history:
In May 2008, I lost my voice while photographing a wedding. I was without any voice at all for five weeks. Shooting a wedding with no voice is an adventure in itself.

The doctors assumed it was just a virus, and some of my voice slowly returned but I never regained 100% of my voice. Beyond this I had no idea of the illness that was coming upon me.

During the following weeks my voice would come and go without any apparent reason that could be identified. Doctors could only tell me that something was inflaming my vocal cords but the cause could be almost anything.

Around September 1, I started noticing a smoky smell in my office. It smelled like burning wood or plastic. I have a home office and studio that are in the downstairs of a split foyer. The smell seemed just as bad upstairs and sometime I noticed it outside. My wife could never smell it but at times it was so strong it made me sick to my stomach.

At the time my office included two CRT monitors, an Imac, a Powermac G4 and G5, LCD monitor, three printers, three UPS units, laptop computer and misc. USB hubs, modems and other assorted pieces of technology. Another Dell computer system was in my upstairs office and a large wide screen LCD TV and digital cable box. Most of these devices have in my office for 5 to 10 years. Two of the computers stay on nearly 24 hours a day.

I started doing a lot of research on the internet and read about Phantosmias (phantom smells) and thought for awhile that I was suffering from this condition, but as the weeks passed the smell started to cause sinus burning and eventually grew worse followed by other symptoms below:

Chest burning and pressure
Throat burning and Tightness
Nasal burning
Eye burning
Hoarseness
Sinus headaches
General fogginess
Trouble swallowing
Lung spasming
Sore throat
Voice loss
Metal taste in the mouth.

My doctor referred me to an Allergist, but he determined I did not have any allergies. He suspected that I might be reacting to something in my home.

My next step was to have installed an $1800 PureAir purification system, but it seemed to give no relief.

About this time, around October, I started reading about VOCs (Volatile Organic Compounds) and the possibility of the computers being the sources.

Working with the company that installed the purifier, they agreed to have an outside lab test the air quality of our office and upstairs. They tested for chemical pollutants including VOCs, allergens and various other environmental conditions in our home.

One testing unit was placed downstairs in the office and the other one placed upstairs in the main living room.

According to their recommendations, normal VOCs for an average home should be no more than 500 ug/m3 on any given day. Anything above that is considered hazardous to your health.

Upon completion of a six-day test, our downstairs office showed over 4000 ug/m3 every day. The upstairs averaged 3000-4000 ug/m3 every day during the test. According to PureAir, this was considerably more pollutants than their system was designed to handle.

Using my nose and smelling every piece of technology in the home I identified the following sources of VOC emitters that seemed to be causing my reaction:

CRT monitors
Flat screen monitors
Computers
UPS battery backups
Wireless and wired Internet devices
External drives,
USB hubs
Wide screen and CRT TVS
Digital cable box

Other non-office related sources are:
Vehicle emissions (we live within 50 yards of a major interstate highway)
Air fresheners
Hair blowers, fans and other devices with electric motors
And anything else that contained hot circuitry.

There are many others, but these seem to be the ones that affect me.

By having these devices all running all day every day for the past 10 years I was slowly poisoning myself without knowing it.

I don't know how long I will suffer from this or if there is a cure. I am seeing a specialist for this condition at John Hopkins in Baltimore in January, but the most I can do now is manage my environment. Managing my environment meant eliminating technology in my home. I have eliminated about 50% of the technology so far and reduced myself to one computer system encased in a ventilated box that vents the VOCs outdoors. I have included a photo of what I built. For it to work best both the intake and outtakes should be vented outdoors. If you want to build one yourself, be sure to use “Green” or environmentally safe materials. Also don’t use galvanized metal or aluminum tape like I did. The galvanizing is coated with an anti rust oil that emits a high amount of VOCs and so does the aluminum tape. I eventually had to remove the tape and replace it with screws and “Green” caulking.

Air purifiers with carbon filtering (charcoal) can help eliminate a lot, but make sure they are designed to accommodate the number of square feet you are trying to filter, and be you are able to tolerate the charcoal smell (to me is as bad as the smoke smell). If you purchase a portable air purifier, make sure it is returnable if it does not suite your needs. Some come with electronic fans that emit the same VOCs that they are designed to filter out

I know my sensitivity is growing worse and I cannot tolerate places like coffee shops and small offices with lots of computers running, or homes with air fresheners or candles burning. I have run into little understand from others. It’s hard to make others aware of the potential danger unless they are directly affected by it themselves.

Vehicle emissions are another source for me and I react when the windows are closed and the heat is on in a vehicle. Both heaters in my vehicles pull the air from the engine compartment. I suspect that is where the VOC source is. Setting the heater to recycle the air does help. Opening the window give best relief if you can stand the cold.

Ventilation of your environment is the best solution, but the price of the systems and increased energy cost due to loss of heat can make them very expensive.

I also use a respirator that you can buy at the local safety store. If you purchase one, be sure to ask for chemical and smoke blocking filters. The filters are pricey, but I have found that when the charcoal gets used up in a few days, you can cut the filter container open and replace the charcoal with charcoal pads purchased from a high quality source like Good Filters on-line. I found that charcoal filters from local Home Depot or Lowes tend to be lower quality and are more like to emit a charcoal odor.

The whole ordeal has really changed the environment I live in. Though I still suffer daily from hoarseness and metal taste in the mouth, the levels are tolerable if I limit the use of my electronic devices.. Now when I shop for anything for our home, I have to look at VOC ratings and only environmentally safe products.

My official diagnosis so far is Multiple Chemical Sensitivity or Sick Office.

If anyone wants to read more, there are several articles on the web about this that can be found at the following links. I only share this so that others can avoid what I have been going through.

Despite my condition, I am so very thankful that most of my wedding and other on-location photography work does not expose me to toxic environments. I am also thankful that my condition is manageable.

http://www.macopinion.com/index.php/site...ing_strategies/

http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/indoorair/voc/

http://www.aafp.org/afp/980901ap/magill.html

http://www.aerias.org/DesktopModules/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleId=160

http://www.computertakeback.com/the_problem/bfr_dust_report.cfm

Here is what I built for my computer, but unfortunately it still leaks gases. I just can't figure out where.
http://www.creativeartsphotography.com/public/IMG_0280.JPG

[MikeTheC]

... You use a double blind test to compare the quality of products such as chocolade.
[Emphasis added.]

Is that anything like Lemonade? Mmm... yummy!

Oh, no, it's an evil plot by The Steve to wipe out the disloyal folks who didn't upgrade like they were supposed to have. [-o<

[MikeTheC]

I for one can attest that many computers emit toxic VOC's. See below:

<snip>

The whole ordeal has really changed the environment I live in. Though I still suffer daily from hoarseness and metal taste in the mouth, the levels are tolerable if I limit the use of my electronic devices.. Now when I shop for anything for our home, I have to look at VOC ratings and only environmentally safe products.

My official diagnosis so far is Multiple Chemical Sensitivity or Sick Office.
Wow, that really must be difficult for you.

Years ago, a customer of mine at OfficeMax and her daughter both were dealing with (comparatively less burdensome) chemical sensitivity, and always came in wearing those white cloth gloves you see people handling photographs with. They had to use special kinds of cleaning products for themselves and their clothes, and anything they wore had to practically be worn out from washing before it was safe for them to put on. And even then, they had to constantly wear long pants and long-sleeved shirts plus the gloves, because there were too many other things "out in the wild" with which they'd react. I remember them telling me that even going to a store and walking through racks of clothing, just hanging there, in an un-protected fashion would make then react so horrifically they could pass out.

So, Rgibbons, you have my complete understanding.


Here is what I built for my computer, but unfortunately it still leaks gases. I just can't figure out where.
http://www.creativeartsphotography.com/public/IMG_0280.JPG

Yikes! Well, at least you can take parts of your world and put it "in the bubble", so to speak, instead of you yourself having to live there.

Well wishes and best of luck to you.

Mike

[BGFG]

I suppose if you look at it from a purely chemical point of view then PC's in general are a risk. Once you take metals, silica compounds and hydrocarbons, put them in a small box and add the extreme temperatures that some machines achieve, there's bound to be some sublimation....

As for apple (a little of topic) i was disappointed in them to see the environmental stance that they took with their aluminum clad products.For all it's benefits, Aluminum is one of the most toxic metals to produce and i have yet to see any major recycling effort for old pod's and such,(or rather, is anyone actually using the service ?) considering the rate at which they are coming off the assembly line.

To give you and idea of what aluminum production can evoke, take a look at what happened when they tried to develop a smelter in my country.

N.B They seem a little emotional but facts are facts.


http://www.nosmeltertnt.com/

[jeyaganesh]

To avoid these toxic VOCs, we should keep computer and other electronic devices in rooms with good air circulation. In cold seasons gas doesn't disperse easily and there is more chance of settling inside the room itself. It is better to let fresh air come inside the computer rooms.