Netbooks, still a glimmer of hope for Linux spreading?

[Helios1276]

I blame the poor adoption of Linux netbooks on the Xandros os I struggled with for a friend on his Eeepc , I'm no expert but a few months of distro hopping on various laptops means he brought it to me. I could'nt fix his wireless for him after two days of trying and bang , on goes xp. I'm hoping the alternatives that are emerging are alot more forgiving to the the new Linux adopter.

[aysiu]

Well, Dell's Mini Inspiron 9 now ships with Ubuntu as an option... hasn't actually been deployed yet (still in pre-orders) but it sounds promising.

[gn2]

Toshiba's NB100 will also have Ubuntu.

http://eu.computers.toshiba-europe.com/innovation/generic/NB100/banner_id/Q3_QosmioBubble_LRGBANNER_TEG08/

[Paqman]

I think it's a window that's closing, to be honest. Massive numbers of the are shipping with XP. If Microsoft keep extending the availability of XP then there's no way the Linux machines can compete. And within a couple of years the hardware in a netbook will be able to run Vista to a practical level anyway.

Still, they've undoubtedly brough a lot of fresh blood in, and have led the industry to take more notice of desktop linux, so we've probably done quite well out of it.

[Helios1276]

Well, Dell's Mini Inspiron 9 now ships with Ubuntu as an option... hasn't actually been deployed yet (still in pre-orders) but it sounds promising.

Dell won't sell hardware with Ubuntu over here , though maybe the netbook might be different. I've tried unsuccesfuly to convince them of their mistake. The fact that Dell has a headquarters here makes it worse.

[Helios1276]

Also, twice now I've overheard uneducated sales staff warning customers away(they might not be to blame considering the wifi problems I'm seeing) from Linux. I gave in once and went over to correct the guy in question when the customer asked about MSN. I think the other side of the shop heard my AMSN sales pitch.

[pp.]

I blame the poor adoption of Linux netbooks on the Xandros os I struggled with for a friend on his Eeepc , I'm no expert but a few months of distro hopping on various laptops means he brought it to me. I could'nt fix his wireless for him after two days of trying

I don't understand the issue. I now have bought my second Asus eee with Xandros, and the WLAN worked on both of them out of the box. On the second one I installed Ubuntu-eee 8.04.1, and again the WLAN worked out of the box. It works like a charm now and recognizes my WLAN at home even after I used it on the LAN in my office.

[Helios1276]

well twice now I've come across them not playing well with WPA and in my efforts to fix the issue I discovered forums crammed with the same.

[aysiu]

I don't understand the issue. I now have bought my second Asus eee with Xandros, and the WLAN worked on both of them out of the box. On the second one I installed Ubuntu-eee 8.04.1, and again the WLAN worked out of the box. It works like a charm now and recognizes my WLAN at home even after I used it on the LAN in my office.
Yeah, I don't get the wireless criticism either, but Xandros (at least as packaged by Asus) is a terrible first Linux experience. You don't have to cripple a distro to give it a foolproof beginner-oriented frontend, but that's what they decided to do.

[Helios1276]

Yeah, I don't get the wireless criticism either, but Xandros (at least as packaged by Asus) is a terrible first Linux experience. You don't have to cripple a distro to give it a foolproof beginner-oriented frontend, but that's what they decided to do.

The issue is that many people who are not regular computer users are buying netbooks for their price and portability. Thus shouldn't they use a distro that is rock solid and easy to use?First impressions and all. I'm sure many people have had great experiences with the installed Xandros but I know for a fact that a great many havent.

[aysiu]

The issue is that many people who are not regular computer users are buying netbooks for their price and portability. Thus shouldn't they use a distro that is rock solid and easy to use?First impressions and all. I'm sure many people have had great experiences with the installed Xandros but I know for a fact that a great many havent.
I'm agreeing that Xandros isn't rock solid, but I don't see what that has do with wireless.

My wife has problems with WPA on her Macbook Pro (and had the same problem with the Powerbook G4 she had earlier), and she hasn't ditched Apple. We just use WEP, even though it's less secure.

[LaRoza]

I blame the poor adoption of Linux netbooks on the Xandros os I struggled with for a friend on his Eeepc , I'm no expert but a few months of distro hopping on various laptops means he brought it to me. I could'nt fix his wireless for him after two days of trying and bang , on goes xp. I'm hoping the alternatives that are emerging are alot more forgiving to the the new Linux adopter.

I think you are making that up.

The poor adoption of Linux isn't poor. The Acer Ones, the Dell 910's, etc are very popular and are selling quickly.

Having trouble getting wireless to work on a distro you are not familiar with isn't a sign of anything. XP is much harder to configure usually, yet obviously you were more familiar with it and got it working.

[Helios1276]

I'm agreeing that Xandros isn't rock solid, but I don't see what that has do with wireless.

My wife has problems with WPA on her Macbook Pro (and had the same problem with the Powerbook G4 she had earlier), and she hasn't ditched Apple. We just use WEP, even though it's less secure.

were these both known issues that plagued multiple users? I say this, as my researching it found many many threads on the relating forums. Eitherway you swing it, Linux began the race as an underdog and as such had to expect wary glances from new adopters. My point is not about the wireless soley , it is about the experience of a new user.

[aysiu]

were these both known issues that plagued multiple users? I say this, as my researching it found many many threads on the relating forums. Eitherway you swing it, Linux began the race as an underdog and as such had to expect wary glances from new adopters. My point is not about the wireless soley , it is about the experience of a new user.
Yes, it's quite normal, though not universal:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=wpa+error+joining+macbook+pro&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=wpa+error+joining+powerbook+g4&btnG=Search

My point was simply that my wife, at the time she bought her Powerbook G4 was a new Mac user (had previously used Windows for a long, long time), but she didn't write off Macs just because she couldn't connect to WPA. Believe me, we Googled a lot and tried everything we could. Her Mac simply will not connect to WPA2. It'll connect to WPA sometimes, but then the connection will drop frequently.

[Helios1276]

Yes, it's quite normal, though not universal:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=wpa+error+joining+macbook+pro&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=wpa+error+joining+powerbook+g4&btnG=Search

My point was simply that my wife, at the time she bought her Powerbook G4 was a new Mac user (had previously used Windows for a long, long time), but she didn't write off Macs just because she couldn't connect to WPA. Believe me, we Googled a lot and tried everything we could. Her Mac simply will not connect to WPA2. It'll connect to WPA sometimes, but then the connection will drop frequently.

Possibly I'm just annoyed,as I had to spend some time defending Linux and nailing down the idea that there isn't just ONE Linux. My attempts at 'put Ubuntu on it' failed.

[aysiu]

Well, that's the main difference, I guess.

My wife came to Mac on her own, so she had to own up to any problems.

If someone had to convince her into using a Mac, she probably would have gone running back to Windows and blamed that person for misleading her.

That's also why I don't defend Linux or try to push it on anyone. If people want to use Windows, that's fine with me.

The only thing I will push against is Linux users buying Windows preinstalled if they don't plan to set up a dual-boot.

[Helios1276]

Well, that's the main difference, I guess.

My wife came to Mac on her own, so she had to own up to any problems.

If someone had to convince her into using a Mac, she probably would have gone running back to Windows and blamed that person for misleading her.

That's also why I don't defend Linux or try to push it on anyone. If people want to use Windows, that's fine with me.

The only thing I will push against is Linux users buying Windows preinstalled if they don't plan to set up a dual-boot.

No , I was not the catalyst for their purchase, I only got a call when it was giving them trouble :)

[aysiu]

No , I was not the catalyst for their purchase, I only got a call when it was giving them trouble :)
Well, either way, that person probably thought "So let's see if this Linux thing is as good as Helios1276 keeps saying it is" instead of "Let me begin my journey now that I've decided to move to Linux."

[Helios1276]

Well, either way, that person probably thought "So let's see if this Linux thing is as good as Helios1276 keeps saying it is" instead of "Let me begin my journey now that I've decided to move to Linux."

No really, they heard I used Linux through a mutual friend. The only converts I can claim are those who looked over my shoulder and asked how my desktop was a cube and even then they got only live cds and a piece of paper saying 'www.ubuntuforums.org'

[cardinals_fan]

The only thing I will push against is Linux users buying Windows preinstalled if they don't plan to set up a dual-boot.
I buy whatever is cheaper. Money doesn't grow on trees (at least not this far north).

[Helios1276]

I think you are making that up.

The poor adoption of Linux isn't poor. The Acer Ones, the Dell 910's, etc are very popular and are selling quickly.

Having trouble getting wireless to work on a distro you are not familiar with isn't a sign of anything. XP is much harder to configure usually, yet obviously you were more familiar with it and got it working.

Right well im not 'making' anything up, I'm basing my statement on a digg article (which I will find and post here) that stated sales figures and on my time in retail outlets watching and talking to salespeople. also , Anyone I know , maybe 5/6 people with netbooks , are running XP.

EDIT: Also, the Acer ONE has JUST arrived here and Dell are not selling machines with Ubuntu to Ireland.

[cardinals_fan]

Having trouble getting wireless to work on a distro you are not familiar with isn't a sign of anything. XP is much harder to configure usually, yet obviously you were more familiar with it and got it working.
If this distro was preinstalled, it certainly should have worked with the preinstalled wireless card. That's the OEM's job.

[Helios1276]

For LaRoza,

http://osnews.com/story/20182/Will_Netbooks_Pave_the_Way_for_Linux_

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/10/linux_netbooks_returned_4x_more_than_xp_editions_s ays_msi-2.html

Further, this is not a question of my competence with any particular OS or a is Helios a lier thread. I brought up the issue to discuss the netbook in relation to new users adopting linux.

[mangar]

My father (which is both a phd and a non-technical person) brought the Asus Eee 7" with Linux (4gb version).
He played with the little bugger a little, and promptly installed XP + office 2003 on it.
Why?
A. The XandrOS on the EEE is terrible, ugly, and provided with ancient software versions - OpenOffice 2.0, for example. I found XandrOS to be terrible, and I've been using Linux for close to a decade (it's using XP lookalike theme, with huge dialogs and crappy fonts, the update mechanism is not reliable, and the system is flaky).
B. He wanted to use the machine for presentations, and OpenOffice mangled his pps files (We're not using English documents, btw..). Also, Openoffice was dead slow on the machine - almost unbearably so.
C. His work network uses propriety IE extensions, so firefox (and ies4lin), are not good enough.
D. He needed outlook for work.

In short, if someone tries to move past the most basic functionalities - chat, Skype, and web surfing, XandrOS does not provide a good enough solution. Most of those problems (except the ugliness), cannot be solved by using a different distro, such as Ubuntu.

[LaRoza]

Right well im not 'making' anything up, I'm basing my statement on a digg article (which I will find and post here) that stated sales figures and on my time in retail outlets watching and talking to salespeople. also , Anyone I know , maybe 5/6 people with netbooks , are running XP.

EDIT: Also, the Acer ONE has JUST arrived here and Dell are not selling machines with Ubuntu to Ireland.

I mean, that Linux needs any hope.

I do not consider the numbers of other people using Linux to be important. As long as it works for me, Linux is spread far enough.

I don't doubt numbers and your experience, just the "glimmer of hope" that is needed. Linux doesn't need "to spread", it need to work. Windows was spread, that was the goal of MS, to have Windows in every house (forget exact wording, but it is their vision statement) not to make quality software.

[Helios1276]

I mean, that Linux needs any hope.

I do not consider the numbers of other people using Linux to be important. As long as it works for me, Linux is spread far enough.

I don't doubt numbers and your experience, just the "glimmer of hope" that is needed. Linux doesn't need "to spread", it need to work. Windows was spread, that was the goal of MS, to have Windows in every house (forget exact wording, but it is their vision statement) not to make quality software.

I have no strong feelings as to whether Linux needs to spread or not, Yet I figured it was an apt title for the subject matter of the thread. Your initial post did in fact doubt my experience and the numbers however.


@Mangar

I prefer Dark Angels ;)

[pp.]

His work network uses propriety IE extensions, so firefox (and ies4lin), are not good enough.
D. He needed outlook for work.

In short, if someone tries to move past the most basic functionalities ....

That's nothing to do with basic or advanced functionality. Those issues are simply proprietary software which is designed with the express purpose in mind that it violates existing standards.

For that scenario,I would not even consider using anything but Windows.

However, that is not case which is even remotely comparable to the scenario where a typical UMPC is usually considered.

[medic2000]

I buy whatever is cheaper. Money doesn't grow on trees (at least not this far north).

So what about free software?

[cardinals_fan]

So what about free software?
What do you mean? I use Linux (Slackware and Arch) because it works better than anything else for me. I think the open source philosophy is very smart, and it contributes to many of the things I like about Linux, but I would use Windows if it worked better. Because I will install my own OS anyway, I don't care in the slightest what OS is included on a PC. Therefore, I buy whatever is cheapest, regardless of OS. I don't have unlimited resources with which to purchase a more expensive model simply to support * Linux distro.

[medic2000]

I can say further things about this but thats not so important. You gave me the reply i was expecting.

[cardinals_fan]

I can say further things about this but thats not so important. You gave me the reply i was expecting.
Glad to be of service :)

[Helios1276]

I can say further things about this but thats not so important. You gave me the reply i was expecting.

I'm not sure where you were going with that?