What to say to a Windows loving teacher

[Elephantman5]

My teacher (in college) is the Computer Science guy. Although his intelligence is very interesting, he still uses I.E. and calls Microsoft amazing. Also a few other mishaps...(supposedly 800mb cds, and minimal talk of other os's)

Normally my questions are answered with I Don't Know, or, We're Not Going Into that.

The other day he said that "people want to whine about why windows costs so much, but there's a reason why. I personally think what they've done is amazing"

I'm sure you all have great ideas of what to say to a naive windows lover. Please share.

[aeiah]

*cough* 800mb cd (http://images.asia.ru/img/alibaba/photo/51473167/800MB_CD_R.jpg)*cough*

some people are like that. our company has a few but our department deals with the webservers and we refused to run mysql on windows.

i dont know what you mean by college because a lot of americans call university college. i dunno if this man is a professor or some other academic or if he's just some teacher teaching 17 year old the basics of computers. if he's the latter, then he may just be stuck in his ways and not particularly tallented or open minded. or perhaps he's just someone who thinks cost and value are the same thing. its pretty common in the western world.

[Canis familiaris]

Actually MS have indeed been amazing with their software. But they aren't the ones alone who are amazing. :)

[binbash]

Did he ever saw compiz or something?Did he ever touch a linux computer?Did he know the IE's and FF's rendering engine? Probably not.

As Linus T. says "Software is like sex: it's better when it's free" and he pays for a sex ^^

[Canis familiaris]

Not Exactly that he would not know his stuff. Few years ago I loved Microsoft but at time I did know my stuff, I was not an ignorant fool.

[koenn]

The other day he said that "people want to whine about why windows costs so much, but there's a reason why. I personally think what they've done is amazing"

I'm sure you all have great ideas of what to say to a naive windows lover. Please share.
He has a point.
You live in a market-driven economy, the price of something can be whatever the market will bear. Seeing that MS manages to sell its stuff, means the price is acceptable.
More importantly : the purpose of free alternatives to MS software is not offering a low cost or cost-free alternative, but to offer freedom to the users of the software. If you've been whining about Windows being expensive in an effort to promote Linux, you started off on the wrong foot.

Besides that, MS has managed to put a computer in to every house, by recognizing early on that there was actually a market for such things (or by creating that market), and by creating software that matched the needs and requirements of the end-users in that market, in terms of features, functionality, usuability, ... That is pretty amazing.

[elmer_42]

i dont know what you mean by college because a lot of americans call university college.
Well, I was born and raised here and I find that there are a few differences in the two words.

College usually refers to a smaller school, like a community college. Sometimes colleges are referred to as universities by people who want to sound smart and/or educated. Usually the latter is the case.

University usually refers to a large school, that sometimes has very high standards of education. Anything from the lowest California State Universities to Yale, MIT, and Cornell fall under this categories.

[Canis familiaris]

Besides that, MS has managed to put a computer in to every house, by recognizing early on that there was actually a market for such things (or by creating that market), and by creating software that matched the needs and requirements of the end-users in that market, in terms of features, functionality, usuability, ... That is pretty amazing.

Actually I will disgree with that. Microsoft did not put a computer in every house. They put an Operating Systems in the computers in every house - a feat I would guess even more amazing.

[Calmatory]

I'm sure you all have great ideas of what to say to a naive windows lover. Please share.


Why do you have to say anything? Honestly, has this become "Lets all bash Windows people for how ignorant they are" forum or something? Once a day someone asks "How to tell friend that Linux is best" or "Need ideas why Linux is better" or "Need ideas why Windows sucks" etc.

If you can't come up with good arguments on your own, why to ask others to invent arguments for you? They are not your opinions, they are words which you use to bash someone for something.

I personally think Windows is indeed great OS which has it's flaws, just like Ubuntu or other Linux based systems are great and have their flaws. I don't like MS's business practices though but at least I am not bashing every second one who happens to be happy with Windows, despite the numerous "problems" it has.

Why don't you just hand him an Ubuntu CD and let him test it out? If he likes it, he uses it. If you preach, he gets a negative image of whole Ubuntu. Thats why I hate Apple - because of their fanboy-preacher users. Never getting one after one of my friends is an apple preacher.

My best advice is not to say anything at all. Let people be like they want to be. Sure you can mention, but preaching and flaming their way to do is going to do no good for anybody.

[Canis familiaris]

Why do you have to say anything? Honestly, has this become "Lets all bash Windows people for how ignorant they are" forum or something? Once a day someone asks "How to tell friend that Linux is best" or "Need ideas why Linux is better" or "Need ideas why Windows sucks" etc.

If you can't come up with good arguments on your own, why to ask others to invent arguments for you? They are not your opinions, they are words which you use to bash someone for something.

I personally think Windows is indeed great OS which has it's flaws, just like Ubuntu or other Linux based systems are great and have their flaws. I don't like MS's business practices though but at least I am not bashing every second one who happens to be happy with Windows, despite the numerous "problems" it has.

Why don't you just hand him an Ubuntu CD and let him test it out. If he likes it, he uses it. If you preach, he gets a negative image of whole Ubuntu. Thats why I hate Apple - because of their fanboy-preacher users. Never getting one after one of my friends is an apple preacher.

My best advice is not to say anything at all. Let people be like they want to be. Sure you can mention, but preaching and flaming their way to do is going to do no good for anybody.

Well said.

[binbash]

Why do you have to say anything? Honestly, has this become "Lets all bash Windows people for how ignorant they are" forum or something? Once a day someone asks "How to tell friend that Linux is best" or "Need ideas why Linux is better" or "Need ideas why Windows sucks" etc.

If you can't come up with good arguments on your own, why to ask others to invent arguments for you? They are not your opinions, they are words which you use to bash someone for something.

I personally think Windows is indeed great OS which has it's flaws, just like Ubuntu or other Linux based systems are great and have their flaws. I don't like MS's business practices though but at least I am not bashing every second one who happens to be happy with Windows, despite the numerous "problems" it has.

Why don't you just hand him an Ubuntu CD and let him test it out. If he likes it, he uses it. If you preach, he gets a negative image of whole Ubuntu. Thats why I hate Apple - because of their fanboy-preacher users. Never getting one after one of my friends is an apple preacher.

My best advice is not to say anything at all. Let people be like they want to be. Sure you can mention, but preaching and flaming their way to do is going to do no good for anybody.

Good points.

[hessiess]

MS did manage to create an amazingly bad OS :D

[binbash]

I always loved this video btw :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FecVG3KDlUY

[koenn]

Actually I will disgree with that. Microsoft did not put a computer in every house. They put an Operating Systems in the computers in every house - a feat I would guess even more amazing.
Yeah, well, they didn't build or sold the hardware, but you gotta wonder how much PC's would have been sold if there hadn't been a suitable OS and end user applications to go with it.
http://www.jeremyreimer.com/totalshare1.gif
http://www.jeremyreimer.com/total_share.html

[Trail]

Why do you have to say anything? Honestly, has this become "Lets all bash Windows people for how ignorant they are" forum or something? Once a day someone asks "How to tell friend that Linux is best" or "Need ideas why Linux is better" or "Need ideas why Windows sucks" etc.

If you can't come up with good arguments on your own, why to ask others to invent arguments for you? They are not your opinions, they are words which you use to bash someone for something.

I personally think Windows is indeed great OS which has it's flaws, just like Ubuntu or other Linux based systems are great and have their flaws. I don't like MS's business practices though but at least I am not bashing every second one who happens to be happy with Windows, despite the numerous "problems" it has.

Why don't you just hand him an Ubuntu CD and let him test it out? If he likes it, he uses it. If you preach, he gets a negative image of whole Ubuntu. Thats why I hate Apple - because of their fanboy-preacher users. Never getting one after one of my friends is an apple preacher.

My best advice is not to say anything at all. Let people be like they want to be. Sure you can mention, but preaching and flaming their way to do is going to do no good for anybody.

++

[billgoldberg]

My teacher (in college) is the Computer Science guy. Although his intelligence is very interesting, he still uses I.E. and calls Microsoft amazing. Also a few other mishaps...(supposedly 800mb cds, and minimal talk of other os's)

Normally my questions are answered with I Don't Know, or, We're Not Going Into that.

The other day he said that "people want to whine about why windows costs so much, but there's a reason why. I personally think what they've done is amazing"

I'm sure you all have great ideas of what to say to a naive windows lover. Please share.


There was a time I would have responded and called him out, I don't bother anymore.

[The Joe]

There really is nothing inherently wrong with Windows. I mean, it works but it doesn't work the way you want it to or look how you want it to. It is amazing in the sense that it allows people that "don't know compooper" use a computer.

Just say "Here, check out this CD..." and hand him Ubuntu. Easy, sorted, done.

[Canis familiaris]

Yeah, well, they didn't build or sold the hardware, but you gotta wonder how much PC's would have been sold if there hadn't been a suitable OS and end user applications to go with it.
http://www.jeremyreimer.com/totalshare1.gif
http://www.jeremyreimer.com/total_share.html

Apple was there already. And any company with a decent OS at that time could have succeeded.

[koenn]

Apple was there already. And any company with a decent OS at that time could have succeeded.
Apple was there already, selling to geeks and nerds initially, and to niche markets (graphic design, ...) later on. They never got the mass market MS got.

And any company with a decent OS at that time could have succeeded, and if pigs had wings ...
fact is that apparently no other company managed, at that time, to create an OS that appealed to the masses and convinced people that you could have a computer at home (and not just at work) and that you could have use for it even if you weren't a geek, plus they managed to create the software to support that claim. Noone else did.

[rasmus91]

MS did manage to create an amazingly bad OS

Hehe.... well worse and worse i guess... Just got a laptop with Vista, good computer+ bad OS = bad performance. then installed Ubuntu... Good computer+Ubuntu= Good performance.

Try and ask your windows loving teacher if he ever tried out linux, he properly didn't. but if he did he's properly just like one of my friends thinking "The more expensive the better"

Its a ridiculous way to think but anyhow i think some people have the idea that if you're paid to do something, you'll do it a hundred times better than if you're doing it because you love it...

But don't mind that teacher, let him sit inside and enjoy looking out his windows, while you're out side in the freedom and fresh air enjoying your Linux...he thinks he's happy, you're happy... doesn't get much better than that... :D

[Canis familiaris]

fact is that apparently no other company managed, at that time, to create an OS that appealed to the masses and convinced people that you could have a computer at home (and not just at work) and that you could have use for it even if you weren't a geek, plus they managed to create the software to support that claim. Noone else did.

Thats true. I can't argue that. :)
Let's say they were incredible to be at the right place at the right time.

[koenn]

Thats true. I can't argue that. :)
Let's say they were incredible to be at the right place at the right time.

or they knew where to be and at what time , and made sure they got there in time .... :)

[Canis familiaris]

or they knew where to be and at what time , and made sure they got there in time .... :)
Well, Bill Gates is a smart guy...

[geoken]

or they knew where to be and at what time , and made sure they got there in time .... :)

It wasn't about where and when. It was about what they did. They really championed the concept of an Operating System abstracting the hardware to the point where a developer could write an app that would run on multiple platforms (IBM's, Commodores, Tandy's, etc.) This attracted devs to their platform.

[geoken]

I don't understand why you would need people to tell you how to argue with someone. You use the OS, shouldn't you be able to articulate the reasons yourself?

If you need to ask someone to help you argue something that you supposedly believe, it signals that your own beliefs aren't based on coming to logical decisions through personal introspection. Perhaps you should start by asking yourself, without bias, why you feel a certain way.

[koenn]

It wasn't about where and when. It was about what they did. They really championed the concept of an Operating System abstracting the hardware to the point where a developer could write an app that would run on multiple platforms (IBM's, Commodores, Tandy's, etc.) This attracted devs to their platform.

The where and when was a play on Anurag_panda's "right place, right time" argument - try to read in context and you'll understand - I hope.

"the concept of an Operating System abstracting the hardware to the point where a developer could write an app that would run on multiple platforms"
That's pretty much what Unix did when Bill Gates was still in kintergarten, so I don't think MS deserves credit there.

edit:
last time I checked (10 minutes ago), MS-DOS and Windows only run on x86 processors - so at best they provide some common ground on different makes and models of PC's (in the "IBM x86 compatible" sense of the word), not different platforms.

[Elephantman5]

*cough* 800mb cd (http://images.asia.ru/img/alibaba/photo/51473167/800MB_CD_R.jpg)*cough*

cost and value are the same thing. its pretty common in the western world.

Yes. You're right.


He has a point.
features, functionality, usuability, ... That is pretty amazing.

I agree.


Actually I will disgree with that. Microsoft did not put a computer in every house.
They really appended themselves to the software market enough to be insulated in their "abstract" "package for all" computer.
Business-wise they did more then th operating system.


Why do you have to say anything? ...

If you can't come up with good arguments on your own, why to ask others to invent arguments for you?

Neh, Just wanted to hear some opinions. Seems I succeeded with three interesting pages so far.
Some people have more details then others.


MS did manage to create an amazingly bad OS :D

The teacher was telling us, they sent their code to India during the night to get tested, and then when they woke up in the morning their code would be ready to be debugged.

He gives more information about Windows then he does Linux. It's not about Windows bashing, it's about being equally sided. The other people in that class have no idea about other OS's really, or how cool they could be.
Not about preaching.


Yeah, well, they didn't build or sold the hardware, but you gotta wonder how much PC's would have been sold if there hadn't been a suitable OS and end user applications to go with it.

Thanks for the graph.


There was a time I would have responded and called him out, I don't bother anymore.

I sort of understand. I get all hotheaded with the people in there.
He never goes into the explanation of my comments. Yet his statements are centered around the topics he must explore and mine are not.
Although, being a teacher, I would assume his course of Computer Science should include the explanation of UNIX more in depth then just: Computer servers.



There really is nothing inherently wrong with Windows.

Yes there is.

The XP OS they are running can be hacked with rainbow tables in minutes. (It did not come out Too long ago.) Business practices are carnivorous and totalitarian; monotlithic and bloated; ad driven spew, vomitile so acidic with GUI bullcrap it makes me sick when I see it.
Preaching? Talk about preaching. Why does no one ever know anything more then their compooper OS? Microsoft to me is a virus.



But don't mind that teacher, let him sit inside and enjoy looking out his windows, while you're out side in the freedom and fresh air enjoying your Linux...he thinks he's happy, you're happy... doesn't get much better than that... :D


Thanks to you, very much for your comment. I like the analogy.


Well, Bill Gates is a smart guy...

Bill Gates is a business man




edit:
last time I checked (10 minutes ago), MS-DOS and Windows only run on x86 processors - so at best they provide some common ground on different makes and models of PC's (in the "IBM x86 compatible" sense of the word), not different platforms.

Are you referring to something else?
I have multiple copies of windows for both x86 and x64 platforms.

[andras artois]

Microsoft did a fair job of providing an easy to use OS and a cost affordable to most family's/people. It might have it's flaws etc but it was the first mainstream OS that became popular and plenty of programs etc for it. Now it's over priced and reknown for crapping out a lot.

Linux is not very different. How often are people on here asking how to do something after they're broken it or it's broken after an update? Admittedly windows manages to do it without any updates or fiddling around soemtimes.

The reason it has viruses etc is because it's a mainstream OS. If Ubuntu, for example became mainstream enough to match windows there would soon be plenty of things to **** with Ubuntu.

People are slowly coming round to the fact that most Linux OS' are actually free with plenty of support found on the internet and with general living slowly being based around computing more and more people are realising it's the easier choice.

Windows didn't become the best selling OS for no reason. For most of the average users it satisfies them perfectly. The odd virus or spyware, nothing you don't expect. But at the end of the day it's easier for most people to spend £300 on an OS and send it into the computer shop to be fixed than going online and learning a little and figuring it partly out for yourself.

[/rant]

And say to the teacher, "Suck my balls." and then hack his computer with Umaddz SKLZ.

[cardinals_fan]

Why should you say anything to him? Learn anything valuable he has to teach, and let that be that.

[tigrezno]

tell him to pass the FREE test by just pointing to this link:

http://gplv3.fsf.org/static/release/rms_gplv3_launch_high_quality.ogg

If his browser doesn't play it, it's because he's not free :)
Tell him to install a free operating system packed with free codecs and give him a second opportunity to have a better life.

[presence1960]

I would liike to add another meaning to free, being "free" to use what OS you are comfortable with and not be attacked for your decision. I choose to not use windows, but that doesn't mean my choice is the best, smartest or good for anyone or everyone. Attitudes like these are what keeps people from trying things they might otherwise have tried. In AA they have a saying that no one likes to be told anything about alcohol by one who hates it. drinkers will not stand for it.

[presence1960]

in other words don't preach. for when you do you blow the chance of being helpful down the road.

[Frak]

You have to admit, Microsoft is amazing. They literally turned dirt into gold. Just look at DOS. They then went and bought out other technologies, incorporated it into their OS, and marketed it. No matter how bad it was, people still bought it (regardless if they even knew what an OS was).

Seriously, that is a pretty kick-*** company if I do say so myself.

[DeadSuperHero]

Personally, I wouldn't force anything on him. If he likes it, why try and make him feel bad or change him about it? It goes along with the statement "Whatever floats your boat", and that's all.

[Canis familiaris]

Why should you say anything to him? Learn anything valuable he has to teach, and let that be that.

:clap:

That's by far the best advice in this thread.

[NNNNNNNNNN1515]

Give your teacher a linux cd, and write "Windows 7" on it.

[Giant Speck]

Here is the perfect thing to say to him:

"If you love Windows so much, why don't you marry it?"

HAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm so funny, I kill myself!

[gnuvistawouldbecool]

I don't know, he probably isn't going to change his mind overnight. Mind you, if he ever gives you something in an unreadable format, give him something in an unreadable (for windows) format.

[Canis familiaris]

I don't know, he probably isn't going to change his mind overnight. Mind you, if he ever gives you something in an unreadable format, give him something in an unreadable (for windows) format.

Talk about shooting on the foot. Teachers give grades.

[gnuvistawouldbecool]

Talk about shooting on the foot. Teachers give grades.

Yes, but if he can't be bothered to give you something you can actually read, why do be so kind as to not return the favour?

[EdThaSlayer]

On the other hand, my IT guy is quite impressed by me using Gnulix/GNU-linux. :)


What about you ask him, "can you fix my Windows?" and instead of showing him a crashed Windows show some fancy Linux desktop.:)

[Elephantman5]

Give your teacher a linux cd, and write "Windows 7" on it.
That's really funny. :D