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View Full Version : Perfect time for a traditional Linux desktop OS!!!



global citizen
October 2nd, 2008, 12:32 PM
With Windows Vista's failure and Microsoft concentrating heavily on Windows Seven to release it as soon as possible to replace Vista and to fill the gap I think this is the best time for all major Linux distros to consider creating and releasing a counter Windows traditional Linux desktop Operating system to fill the gaps and consolidate on this opportunity. The traditional Linux OS need not to be free but should be competitively priced, easy to use, i.e. user friendly and by that I mean along with the terminal easier ways to install and remove softwares from the OS like those in Windows and Mac OS x and equally polished and developed in everyway to be considered a worthy competitior to both Windows and Mac OS x. That should be a commercial venture in every way. Thats not to say that the present open source distros should be discarded; they should remain as they are. I think the best Linux companies positioned for this venture are Canonical, Red Hat, Novell and Xandros. What do you think? What are your view points about that?:)

billgoldberg
October 2nd, 2008, 12:33 PM
With Windows Vista's failure and Microsoft concentrating heavily on Windows Seven to release it as soon as possible to replace Vista and to fill the gap I think this is the best time for all major Linux distros to consider creating and releasing a counter Windows traditional Linux desktop Operating system to fill the gaps and consolidate on this opportunity. The traditional Linux OS need not to be free but should be competitively priced, easy to use, i.e. user friendly and by that I mean along with the terminal easier ways to install and remove softwares from the OS like those in Windows and Mac OS x and equally polished and developed in everyway to be considered a worthy competitior to both Windows and Mac OS x. That should be a commercial venture in every way. Thats not to say that the present open source distros should be discarded; they should remain as they are. I think the best Linux companies positioned for this venture are Canonical, Red Hat, Novell and Xandros. What do you think? What are your view points about that?:)

I could start listing things you said and go into detail on why I don't agree, but I'll keep it simple.

No.

Sealbhach
October 2nd, 2008, 12:35 PM
1. Under the GPL, I thought it has to be free, not allowed to charge for it ???

2. I thought Ubuntu was aiming to be just this. (REF: Ubuntu Bug # 1).



.

SpenceMakesSense
October 2nd, 2008, 12:35 PM
NOOOO DONT RELEASE LINUX..its my os mine![-X

billgoldberg
October 2nd, 2008, 12:39 PM
1. Under the GPL, I thought it has to be free, not allowed to charge for it ???

.

Not true.

ubuntu-freak
October 2nd, 2008, 12:40 PM
Windows has been crappy for a long time, so I'm not sure what your point is. It's just a different and newer kinda crap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Windows_Vista) at the moment.

Ubuntu is doing fine, people will discover it if they really want an alternative to Windows.

davidryder
October 2nd, 2008, 12:56 PM
Do you think charging for the OS would make Linux more popular?

icett
October 2nd, 2008, 01:04 PM
I agree. Normal people neither have the time nor like to play around with the present commands setup for installing-uninstalling softwares and many other things very confusing for the normal beings. And they are the majority. Also there is a real need for another OS in compeition to Windows and it could either be Linux or Mac OS (if they consider to license it). Better Linux! And yes a commercial OS could be created in Linux. Nothing is forbidding it. Also the hardware, software/games makers would only take a commercial OS seriously and this would only benifit the Linux community.:D

Calmatory
October 2nd, 2008, 01:11 PM
What IS the problem of Windwos for average user? It isn't free? For them it "is" as they pay the price when they buy the computer. It isn't free as in ideology and source code? Do they really care? They don't. Thus Windows is free enough for them.

Windows has their viruses and malware. Do they consider this a downside for Windows? No, since they have their AV software.

Windows can be used by about anyone, almost EVERYONE knows Windows. Put those in front of Ubuntu and tell them to launch web browser. They will ask you "What is it?" and after you explain, they tell that there is no "Internet Explorer" here. You get the idea.

A lot of software is written for Windows. Porting that software to Linux is very hard, if not impossible without heavy financial investments. Anyone having a spare billion in hand?

And those who struggle to use even graphical user interface are supposed to use CLI by their own? Who is going to teach them? Why should they learn it? Why should they NOT use Windows because it works for them? They don't care about the price after they have bought it. They don't care about how good or bad company MS is, they don't care about the ethics of Linux etc. They care about what they can do and what is the easiest way. Windows is.

Microsoft will keep it's marketing going on, in practice, Linux doesn't even have one. People ask you "Linux? something to do with computer nerds??".

Thats how it goes, no can do. :?

davidryder
October 2nd, 2008, 01:13 PM
Calmatory, I mostly agree with your post.

Chame_Wizard
October 2nd, 2008, 01:33 PM
What IS the problem of Windwos for average user? It isn't free? For them it "is" as they pay the price when they buy the computer. It isn't free as in ideology and source code? Do they really care? They don't. Thus Windows is free enough for them.

Windows has their viruses and malware. Do they consider this a downside for Windows? No, since they have their AV software.

Windows can be used by about anyone, almost EVERYONE knows Windows. Put those in front of Ubuntu and tell them to launch web browser. They will ask you "What is it?" and after you explain, they tell that there is no "Internet Explorer" here. You get the idea.

A lot of software is written for Windows. Porting that software to Linux is very hard, if not impossible without heavy financial investments. Anyone having a spare billion in hand?

And those who struggle to use even graphical user interface are supposed to use CLI by their own? Who is going to teach them? Why should they learn it? Why should they NOT use Windows because it works for them? They don't care about the price after they have bought it. They don't care about how good or bad company MS is, they don't care about the ethics of Linux etc. They care about what they can do and what is the easiest way. Windows is.

Microsoft will keep it's marketing going on, in practice, Linux doesn't even have one. People ask you "Linux? something to do with computer nerds??".

Thats how it goes, no can do. :?

QFT amen :guitar:

TheSlipstream
October 2nd, 2008, 01:41 PM
What IS the problem of Windwos for average user? It isn't free? For them it "is" as they pay the price when they buy the computer. It isn't free as in ideology and source code? Do they really care? They don't. Thus Windows is free enough for them.
I agree, they don't. But being free is helpful when they try it out, and they'll pleased to get all the free software.


Windows has their viruses and malware. Do they consider this a downside for Windows? No, since they have their AV software.
Apple used viruses and malware as a reason against Windows in their famous commercials. Clearly someone cares.


Windows can be used by about anyone, almost EVERYONE knows Windows. Put those in front of Ubuntu and tell them to launch web browser. They will ask you "What is it?" and after you explain, they tell that there is no "Internet Explorer" here. You get the idea.
Big deal, it doesn't take long to get used to Linux nowadays, and Firefox market share is at about 30% right now.


A lot of software is written for Windows. Porting that software to Linux is very hard, if not impossible without heavy financial investments. Anyone having a spare billion in hand?
Yeah, because it's going to be us who pays companies to develop. If Linux has a marketshare, then they'll chase it.


And those who struggle to use even graphical user interface are supposed to use CLI by their own? Who is going to teach them? Why should they learn it? Why should they NOT use Windows because it works for them? They don't care about the price after they have bought it. They don't care about how good or bad company MS is, they don't care about the ethics of Linux etc. They care about what they can do and what is the easiest way. Windows is.
You are clearly not an Ubuntu user. The Terminal doesn't need to be used for anything, really. I quite like it though, simple and efficient.


Microsoft will keep it's marketing going on, in practice, Linux doesn't even have one. People ask you "Linux? something to do with computer nerds??".
You mean those two advertising campaigns, one of which was some random crap with Jerry Seinfeld that nobody understood and was quickly withdrawn, and the other one that's just a direct push back at Apple? Marketing geniuses they are.

Calmatory
October 2nd, 2008, 02:05 PM
Big deal, it doesn't take long to get used to Linux nowadays, and Firefox market share is at about 30% right now.


Among who? Remind that majority of the computer users do not even know what CPU they have, or that they think "Compaq" is their computer. Thus I'd assume that not too many of them are familar with FF. Sure some are, half of them aren't.



Yeah, because it's going to be us who pays companies to develop. If Linux has a marketshare, then they'll chase it.


Partly true, but because Windows has had solid API to build the programs to. WinAPI and nowadays .NET. Microsoft still makes the best programming tools available, not to mention the great API tied to their OS.



You are clearly not an Ubuntu user. The Terminal doesn't need to be used for anything, really. I quite like it though, simple and efficient.
Ubuntu for 2 years. So you go and search the web for some help for the problem you have. The first thing people tell you to do is to write some non-sense commands and paste some text to that terminal. Sure the Firefox launches without it, and the computer boots without it, and even OpenOffice works without it, but when a problem occurs, no GUI is going to help.



You mean those two advertising campaigns, one of which was some random crap with Jerry Seinfeld that nobody understood and was quickly withdrawn, and the other one that's just a direct push back at Apple? Marketing geniuses they are.
I mean those Windows stickers in about EVERY computer. I mean those Windows mousepads, I mean those Windows ads in the computer related Magazines, I mean those Windows ads in the streetlights and I mean those "Windows Certified" etc. logos in computer peripheals etc. Ever seen a Linux sticker in a OEM computer? Or "Linux Certified" logo in a webcam or a keyboard?

karellen
October 2nd, 2008, 02:09 PM
I'd say no. and nevertheless, Microsoft had an increasing revenue after Vista's launch, so I hardly call it a disaster

Ms_Angel_D
October 2nd, 2008, 02:12 PM
Ever seen a Linux sticker in a OEM computer? Or "Linux Certified" logo in a webcam or a keyboard?

Seen Ubuntu Stickers on a OEM computer/Keyboard LOOK HERE (http://www.zareason.com/shop/home.php)

TheSlipstream
October 2nd, 2008, 02:22 PM
Among who? Remind that majority of the computer users do not even know what CPU they have, or that they think "Compaq" is their computer. Thus I'd assume that not too many of them are familar with FF. Sure some are, half of them aren't.
Computer users are not retarded. I mean, seriously, the sorts of people you are referring to are not a majority market.


Partly true, but because Windows has had solid API to build the programs to. WinAPI and nowadays .NET. Microsoft still makes the best programming tools available, not to mention the great API tied to their OS.
I am not a developer, but if thousands of people can happily develop powerful applications for Linux, then it can't be all bad. And if it really is that bad, we can always write a new one.


Ubuntu for 2 years. So you go and search the web for some help for the problem you have. The first thing people tell you to do is to write some non-sense commands and paste some text to that terminal. Sure the Firefox launches without it, and the computer boots without it, and even OpenOffice works without it, but when a problem occurs, no GUI is going to help.
I'll admit I'm a bit out of touch with people who don't like to learn about computers, but people happily used DOS for many years. In the alternate world in which Linux is a real option for those unskilled in computers, Terminal usage would be very minimal, about the same as Windows CMD usage. It's very minimal now, if you make it so.


I mean those Windows stickers in about EVERY computer. I mean those Windows mousepads, I mean those Windows ads in the computer related Magazines, I mean those Windows ads in the streetlights and I mean those "Windows Certified" etc. logos in computer peripheals etc. Ever seen a Linux sticker in a OEM computer? Or "Linux Certified" logo in a webcam or a keyboard?
I didn't realise just having people know your product counts as marketing. Marketing usually attempts to have people see the product in a positive light, just as Apple has great music with their ads. Stickers don't particularly convey emotion, so I don't really consider them so much marketing.

davidryder
October 2nd, 2008, 02:30 PM
The fact is Windows is a better choice for the majority of 'average' users. I'm not a cheerleader of any company or idea but I think it's really hard to argue that Windows isn't a better choice for most people.

I think anyone that has made the transition from Windows to Linux can remember the problems they ran into getting things the way they want them. I'm not suggesting Windows is better than Linux or vice versa but for many reasons I would say it's the better choice for most people.

Linux still has a very long way to go before it's ready for the average user. I have been trying Linux on and off since Red Hat 3 and every time I eventually ran into a problem I didn't want to trouble shoot any longer and went back to Windows. This is definitely the longest I've stayed in Linux. It is probably a combination of my knowledge of Linux and the advances made in the past couple of years that has kept me here.

@TheSlipstream, the majority of computer users are retarded in the sense that they know little to nothing about computers. I have one real life friend that uses Linux. Most of my friends and family come to me for computer help. Truly knowledgeable computer users are far and few between. Computer users that want to go through the troubles we all faced when first getting into Linux are even more scarce. I would say you are a very rare individual if you are surrounded by knowledgeable computer users.

TheSlipstream
October 2nd, 2008, 02:43 PM
@TheSlipstream, the majority of computer users are retarded in the sense that they know little to nothing about computers. I have one real life friend that uses Linux. Most of my friends and family come to me for computer help. Truly knowledgeable computer users are far and few between. Computer users that want to go through the troubles we all faced when first getting into Linux are even more scarce. I would say you are a very rare individual if you are surrounded by knowledgeable computer users.

Hey, I'm not saying I'm surrounded by Computer Science grads, but my family and friends do know what a computer is and how to use one. Sure, I help quite frequently, but I've never met a person who can use a Windows PC but at the same time is too bad to use an Ubuntu install with perfect hardware. Ubuntu might even be better for then, most of the time, since it won't get super slow as time passes.

Calmatory
October 2nd, 2008, 03:05 PM
Computer users are not retarded. I mean, seriously, the sorts of people you are referring to are not a majority market.Why on earth do they install files like "FreePr0nInstallerNotAVirusISwear.exe"? :p The reason why Windows has viruses and malware is due to the stupid users. A user with good knowledge about computers does not need a Anti-Virus software or firewall to be safe. A stupid user with Anti-Virus software and Firewall will be swarmed with viruses, because the user is the stupid and weak link.




I am not a developer, but if thousands of people can happily develop powerful applications for Linux, then it can't be all bad. And if it really is that bad, we can always write a new one.Those people are professionals who have lived with Linux for years, and know the tricks. Newcomes are left out due to inferior API compared to what Windows offers.



I'll admit I'm a bit out of touch with people who don't like to learn about computers, but people happily used DOS for many years. In the alternate world in which Linux is a real option for those unskilled in computers, Terminal usage would be very minimal, about the same as Windows CMD usage. It's very minimal now, if you make it so.People used virtual terminals for their emails and text files in 80's. Back then in DOS days computer usage was far from the same as it is nowadays. Back then there were no Youtube or Facebook with ignorant computer and internet users. Back then those who spent alot of time with computers knew alot of their systems. Nowadays people don't need to know about the systems. They just open up the browser and have fun. ..until something happens. E.g. X.org breaks down and there is no GUI to use. Windows has System restore for that.



I didn't realise just having people know your product counts as marketing. Marketing usually attempts to have people see the product in a positive light, just as Apple has great music with their ads. Stickers don't particularly convey emotion, so I don't really consider them so much marketing.

My bad. ;) Still Windows is being advertised. Linux is not, not even Ubuntu. I've heard some Red Hat stories but even if RH was advertised, it wasn't advertised enough to get my attention.


Seen Ubuntu Stickers on a OEM computer/Keyboard LOOK HERE (http://www.zareason.com/shop/home.php)

Yes, and Dell ships computers with Ubuntu and we have System76... But what about those OEMs which stick to Windows? :p

aysiu
October 2nd, 2008, 03:09 PM
I don't understand this proposal.

In this context, what do you mean by traditional, and how would this new "traditional" distro differ from existing ones?

aaaantoine
October 2nd, 2008, 04:30 PM
I don't understand this proposal.

In this context, what do you mean by traditional, and how would this new "traditional" distro differ from existing ones?

I think that the release global citizen is describing is not a "traditional" Linux desktop at all. And to that end, I cannot answer the poll question.

Unless "traditional" is defined as "commercial". So, should a commercial Linux desktop OS be released?

One word: Linspire (http://www.linspire.com/).

Ms_Angel_D
October 2nd, 2008, 04:43 PM
Yes, and Dell ships computers with Ubuntu and we have System76... But what about those OEMs which stick to Windows? :p

Simply Put IMO THEY SUCK....:lolflag:

vijaym
October 2nd, 2008, 04:49 PM
In a word

NO

More...

GPL really means that the source is open! Sure you can sell the software, but if GPL you need to release the source as per the GPL.

If you really want some more like MS windows type then see ReactOS - also with a GPL

aysiu
October 2nd, 2008, 04:52 PM
So "traditional" is supposed to mean "Windows clone"? I just want to understand what's being proposed before I offer an opinion.

Mulenmar
October 2nd, 2008, 04:52 PM
In a word

NO

More...

GPL really means that the source is open! Sure you can sell the software, but if GPL you need to release the source as per the GPL.

If you really want some more like MS windows type then see ReactOS - also with a GPL

ReactOS doesn't even boot on my computers. I'll stick with Ubuntu, thanks -- until I get Gentoo working, anyway. :lolflag:

lukjad007
October 2nd, 2008, 04:58 PM
Simply put: One size fits all, fits no one.
So, no.

Canis familiaris
October 2nd, 2008, 05:05 PM
Simply put: One size fits all, fits no one.
So, no.

+1

For those who want a good open source *nix based OS similar to Linux which is one size fits all, is OpenSolaris. It's simply awesome, considering that 2008.05 was only its first release.

aysiu
October 2nd, 2008, 05:12 PM
Well, I will say that nothing comes about in software just because you think "it should" come about.

If you believe strongly in this "traditional Linux desktop" (again, whatever that means), there are only several avenues to achieving this: Pay someone or several people to create it. Create it yourself. Through magical powers of persuasion, manage to convince someone to volunteer to create it for you. Given that this is a thread saying something "should" be done instead of offering money to people to do it or saying "I'm about to embark on this project; please join me," it sounds as if it's the third option, and you really haven't made a convincing enough case, I think.

And I don't know much software that comes about from method three anyway.

All the software I'm aware of comes from passion or profit.