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View Full Version : ubuntu (linux) offers latest tech, not necessarily best! examples



spandanj
September 28th, 2008, 09:08 AM
hi,

Yes, ubuntu offers instant messaging software. But, it's no where near as nice in terms of features compared to msn messenger, yahoo messenger, etc. just compare nice video chat in ichat, looks of msn messenger to pidgin in ubuntu.

Yes, Ubuntu offers video chat support, but limited by webcam support and softwares that offer video chat support (ekiga). While, on the other hand, mac/win xp gives better webcam support and better/more software that offer video chat.

My point is: Ubuntu is not leading technology in communication! instant messenging software in linux are CATCHING up to features of msn, yahoo, etc. Ubuntu is lagging. don't know if it will ever catch up, whatever the reasons, obstacles.

lancest
September 28th, 2008, 10:40 AM
Ubuntu has Skype with video. That's enough for me. Pidgin is multi-protocol supporting many IM's. Plenty of action there for most people. Why doesn't MSN Windows chat software support Googletalk, ICQ, AIM, MySpace etc etc? Why is it so far behind?

spandanj
September 28th, 2008, 11:48 AM
Ubuntu has Skype with video. That's enough for me. Pidgin is multi-protocol supporting many IM's. Plenty of action there for most people. Why doesn't MSN Windows chat software support Googletalk, ICQ, AIM, MySpace etc etc? Why is it so far behind?

Hi Lancest,

i am trying ekiga now. but, it does not recognize my webcam.

You suggest using Pidgin for msn, or other protocol. I can. But, my point is FEATURES, not the protocol itself.

Using Msn as a protocol is clearly not a problem in linux. one can use pidgin, amsn, emesene, etc. I am refering to Msn as 'msn live messenger' -- a software that is much better than pidgin in offering more/better features.

You point out Msn windows chat software not supporting other protocols. Again, my point wasn't of a chat software supporting/not supporting protocols. My point was the chat software itself and its features. Then, you can understand why people still use the msn protocol. It is because they were use to msn as the 'msn live messenger' before their switch to linux since it was one of the best chat messengers in windows. But, after the switch, even though they still can communicate to their friends on the msn protocols, they have lost features of 'msn live messenger' software -- such as voice/video chat.

I hope you agree with what I am saying. And try to keep the protocol and the chat software seperate. By the way, does the protocol itself have anything to do with what features it can support, independent of the chat software used to access the protocol?

thanks.

lancest
September 28th, 2008, 12:52 PM
I don't like the idea that people should feel alot of dependence on MS or proprietary products or services. That is my point. I won't disagree on features though because plainly Windows has a bit richer software environment.
Pidgin looks great to me! I prefer the Gnome look. We do have Webcam and voice chat on Ubuntu using several programs. I use Ubuntu because it's just easier to get software and a lot more faster & secure than Windows. Who cares what MSN has or doesn't have beyond basic chat. Windows is not really suitable for the internet in my view.

spandanj
September 28th, 2008, 01:31 PM
hey lancest,

I agree with you on your previous post about everything except:

"who cares about what MSN has to offer beyond basic features"

I do. Everyone should care. because audio/video communication has become common. Communication by texting is old and not fun. audio/video communication should be so easy in ubuntu if it wants to claim itself as leading revolution in technology. Audio/video communication availibility should be a requirement.

Thankfully, it is possible. Ekiga, skype. I just did not know about them. Although, they are still useless for me b/c my webcam doesn't work which not a fault of ubuntu, but nexxtech which does not have drivers for linux. So, I am still undecided on evaluation of A/V communication capabilities of ubuntu based on ekiga/skype cuz I can't use em just yet. Implementing A/V com on msn-pidgin == can't wait. how hard can it be. just convert what cheese captures and load it onto msn "signal" in pidgin...heh. I don't know ****, but that's what I would imagine we would do. what's keeping pidgin from having A/V capabilities anyway? also, offline messages and other IMPORTANT features?

-

lancest
September 28th, 2008, 02:21 PM
It is not correct to assume that for Ubuntu to be popular it needs to cater to every MSN feature. Alot of Ubuntu users will use Skype/Ekiga for video anyway. AMSN works for video also. Pidgin has plans in the future for video but it's most important features- multi-protocol & cross platform abilities are the main selling point for a lot of Linux users. Enhanced messaging is happening on Linux-so no need to worry

spandanj
September 28th, 2008, 02:52 PM
Enhanced messaging is happening on Linux-so no need to worry

I guess that is where we differ. I don't regard voice/video communication as enhanced messaging. I regard it as a necessary feature, like having a 'right' click feature. You could do away with it, but it is so great, you have to have it. everyone uses it.

Oh, and you say Ubuntu doesn't have to cater to all MSN features. No, it doesn't. But, do you know what I expect from Ubuntu because IT IS supposedly better than Windows as proclaimed by 95% of linux community? I expect it to be ACTUALLY better than windows. So, whatever software/protocol Ubuntu uses, I expect it to be better than MSN. But, it's not. It's not even equally as good as MSN. It's (pidgin, since that is the default ubuntu msger) missing "offline messages"! That is NOT an enhanced feature. That is a feature I want Ubuntu to cater to! there might be others...

Finally, two things:

1) If you agree that Ubuntu should, or in your opinion, is better than windows, than tell me how pidgin is better than MSN in terms of feature. Not in terms of protocol, because that has nothing to do with the 'messaging user experience'.
2) Please do not try to cover the fact the Ubuntu IS missing some important features by playing word games. Face the facts. No you are not betraying Ubuntu by doing so. Accept what's lacking, so you CAN make it better.

just to remind you again, the argument is not about support for a variety of protocols, but features.

scotty32
September 28th, 2008, 03:21 PM
I think you are missing things just a little bit.

You are basing your opinions of Ubuntu on MSN Messenger.

Windows does not come with MSN Messenger (or Windows Live Messenger as its now known) by default, it comes with Windows Messenger which is a rather limited version. You have to install MSN Messenger your self.


Pidgin is not MSN Messenger or even a MSN "Clone". If you want MSN Messenger you will need to ask Microsoft to make a Linux version - which I highly doubt they would do. Otherwise you will need to use other programs to connect to the MSN Messenger service such as Pidgin or you could install a different program such as aMSN which matches MSN Messenger in terms of features - including Web Cam and Offline Messenges. I find Emesene to be the nicest but it currently lacks webcam support.


As for your webcam, you keep mentioning that Pidgin / Skype / etc dont work with your webcam. This is not the programs fault this is down to the hardware.

I suspect that your webcam doesnt support Linux (IE the creators decided not to make drivers for Linux), if you want it to work you would need to contact the manufactorer and ask them to make a Linux driver - which i doubt they would do.

spandanj
September 28th, 2008, 03:34 PM
I think you are missing things just a little bit.



Agreed. when will singularity arrive so we won't have to deal with the stupid interoperability, compatibility, and platform issues!?

The reason I agree NOW is that I found ekiga, etc that can replace features of MSN (not necessarily meaning OWNED by MSN).

But, would I have been confused/lost as I may seem based on my first few posts, had I been on mac os x leopard? No. You know why? User-friendlyness. On mac, they have taken care that the user doesn't suffer as part of adjusting to the new operating system. For that they have easier-to-use adopted versions of software that the user may have used in the past. eg. MSN. OR They may have its own main chat software that is user-friendly enough for a new user to get acquianted and get used in 2 mins. OR they may have a tutorial video. THey have all three of these.

I think a lot of frustration of a new user can be prevented by making a tutorial video for the OS like leopard. I can't believe Ubuntu team hasn't implemented this! Do you agree?

Ultimately, lets try to focus on one problem at a time, and one solution at a time. I think including a tutorial video on a fresh installation is one heck of a solution. It shows that the developer teams cares about the user.

wolfen69
September 28th, 2008, 05:06 PM
how come windows does not support amarok? or come with a bittorrent client? or an office suite? i keep hearing how good windows is, but i have to go out and find all these programs, hope there is no spyware, and sometimes even pay for these things! what's up with this anti-virus thing anyway? and everytime i start up my computer, it wants to scan my computer, which renders it useless. and why are all these programs fighting for my system resources during startup? defragging? what the heck? until microsoft makes a simple, "not so in my face", easy to use os that just lets me actually use my computer without bugging me all the time, i'm going back to linux.

aaror
September 28th, 2008, 05:30 PM
yet again...
Seems we keep getting into the same argument:
1. we should add/change this to help new users like the OS better
2. no, the OS is perfect as is
1. well, if we did X, it would be more like windows
2. windows sucks, I prefer Linux

I almost think we need two forums, one for folks who want to suggest new additions, and the other for folks who are offended by suggestions that a change can help.
Me, I don't think Ubuntu is perfect right now, sorry if I offend. I agree that if Pigeon is going to be the default messenger, it would be nice to support voice and video (me I use skype for video and Pigeon for typing, often at the same time). On the flip side, the built-in spell checker is something I don't see anyone else providing, and I love it.
I think a new user tutorial video is a great idea too.
The question is, how can we create a thread for debating what changes would be cool without it being hijacked by folks who don't see the problem? I'm sorry to be rude about this, but I have met at least 4 people in two weeks on this forum who would like to suggest new ideas and changes, but any post in that vein is inundated by folks who don't see the point...

Vladimir Hidalgo
September 28th, 2008, 05:40 PM
I guess you'll have less problems with 8.10, as I think it will be Kernel 2.6.27 and it has a lot better support for webcams.

That would be a great start point for software developers to make better applications in my opinion.

StitchJAcket
September 28th, 2008, 05:45 PM
I guess you'll have less problems with 8.10, as I think it will be Kernel 2.6.27 and it has a lot better support for webcams.

That would be a great start point for software developers to make better applications in my opinion.


I think the overall missed point of this entire argument is that if your using ubuntu linux.... Then you using it because of the features it offers. People keep comparing all these different OS to each other well in the end each one is built on a different platform that is in itself unique. Take for instance I like to be able to configure my system at a very low level. Therefore I like linux. However when it comes to software support I end to lean towards Windows. But if I want to get some movies edited I will use my mac because it's just easiest that way for me.

spandanj
September 29th, 2008, 12:59 AM
StitchJAcket

"I like to be able to configure my system at a very low level. Therefore I like linux. However when it comes to software support I end to lean towards Windows. But if I want to get some movies edited I will use my mac because it's just easiest that way for me."

1: Selecting a different software for different task I understand, but not a different platform for different task. I want one platform where I can run a diversity of sofware.....linux (in theory). Most ppl are like this. You, I suppose, are unique. WHen I say most -- I don't mean most ppl who use linux. I mean MOST people who use computers. [you gotta make things so clear on these forums to prevent an attack] Plus, I dont have the money to buy 3 different com/platforms

Aaror

"The question is, how can we create a thread for debating what changes would be cool without it being hijacked by folks who don't see the problem? I'm sorry to be rude about this, but I have met at least 4 people in two weeks on this forum who would like to suggest new ideas and changes, but any post in that vein is inundated by folks who don't see the point..."

I agree. I will post the idea on brainstorm.

Finally......

wolfen69

"how come windows does not support amarok? or come with a bittorrent client? or an office suite? i keep hearing how good windows is, but i have to go out and find all these programs, hope there is no spyware, and sometimes even pay for these things! what's up with this anti-virus thing anyway? and everytime i start up my computer, it wants to scan my computer, which renders it useless. and why are all these programs fighting for my system resources during startup? defragging? what the heck? until microsoft makes a simple, "not so in my face", easy to use os that just lets me actually use my computer without bugging me all the time, i'm going back to linux."

This is not a thread to discuss Windows vs. linux. This is thread about instant messaging in linux and it's features. If you have anything to add about that, you are welcome. Please read previous posts to know what has already been discussed.

MNICY
September 29th, 2008, 01:06 AM
try using emesene for MSN.

wolfen69
September 29th, 2008, 01:40 AM
am i the only person for whom ubuntu works perfect? i would be a fool to use windows or mac. but i realise that other people don't feel the same. that's OK.

lancest
September 29th, 2008, 01:55 AM
This guy (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=834407&page=4) from Ekiga says any non MS software trying to be compatible with Microsoft's IM protocols is illegal.
I'm not sure myself. However it does point to the fact the Microsoft refuses to offer Linux IM support.

2- Legal/illegal:
All softwares trying to be compatible with MSN/WLM from Microsoft are just illegals.
see:
"4. How You May Not Use the Service.
use any unauthorized third party software or service to access the Microsoft instant messaging network (currently known as the .NET Messenger Service)"
http://help.live.com/help.aspx?project=tou&mkt=en-us
Probably the same apply to many proprietary VoIP clients.
aMSN is adding voice+video support... Will Microsoft tolerate that?
Interesting huh? I for one am not one of their feature addicted sheep

wolfen69
September 29th, 2008, 04:27 AM
i would not concern myself with it. i'm sure you have better things to do.

spandanj
September 29th, 2008, 04:53 AM
Lancest,


WOW! Did not know that. So, if they like, they can shut down Pidgin? or shut-down ppl using '.net' via pidgin....?

You know, I wouldn't use 'msn' protocol either if all my friends weren't on it. w

Nice find though.

cardinals_fan
September 29th, 2008, 04:55 AM
The question is, how can we create a thread for debating what changes would be cool without it being hijacked by folks who don't see the problem? I'm sorry to be rude about this, but I have met at least 4 people in two weeks on this forum who would like to suggest new ideas and changes, but any post in that vein is inundated by folks who don't see the point...
But aren't they [the folks who don't see the point] just expressing a valid opinion? New ideas are always worth hearing about, but that doesn't make them all good. Are you saying that you want a forum where everyone agrees with every idea posted?

wolfen69
September 29th, 2008, 05:29 AM
for once you make sense....thank you.

starcannon
September 29th, 2008, 10:19 PM
Ubuntu has Skype with video. That's enough for me. Pidgin is multi-protocol supporting many IM's. Plenty of action there for most people. Why doesn't MSN Windows chat software support Googletalk, ICQ, AIM, MySpace etc etc? Why is it so far behind?
+1 to lancest's post, I agree completely. Skype and Pidgin, thats as good as it gets, no point in having anything else, even if I were running MS Windows, I'd still use this combination of software, every thing else leaves me wanting in comparison. So I guess I actually disagree with the OP entirely, I actually think Linux offers the best software for this particular application.

Sef
September 29th, 2008, 11:55 PM
Moved to Community Cafe .

happysmileman
September 30th, 2008, 12:20 AM
Neither MSN messenger, Yahoo messenger nor any other native Windows one that i've tried allow me to sign into all 3 of my IM accounts at once using one program, therefore they aren't good enough for me, I dislike running more than one IM program just to talk to people.

As for video and VOIP, skype now supports video in Linux, so that's good enough for me, though I agree that was very slow at being made stable for Linux.

happysmileman
September 30th, 2008, 12:21 AM
Neither MSN messenger, Yahoo messenger nor any other native Windows one that i've tried allow me to sign into all 3 of my IM accounts at once using one program, therefore they aren't good enough for me, I dislike running more than one IM program just to talk to people.

As for video and VOIP, skype now supports video in Linux, so that's good enough for me, though I agree that was very slow at being made stable for Linux.

wolfen69
September 30th, 2008, 01:28 AM
StitchJAcket


This is not a thread to discuss Windows vs. linux. This is thread about instant messaging in linux and it's features. If you have anything to add about that, you are welcome. Please read previous posts to know what has already been discussed.

who the heck are you? please don't go around telling people what to post. that is what mods are for. have a nice day.

btw, kopete has support for webcams.

K.Mandla
September 30th, 2008, 01:55 AM
Let's put a cap on this one before it gets ugly. If you have a catastrophic, life-changing epiphany to post to this thread that you absolutely positively must add, contact a staff member to ask that it be reopened.

However, if your post is anything short of the modern-day equivalent of the Gutenberg bible, expect it to stay closed.