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View Full Version : Ubuntu 8.10 Intrepid Ibex will not have brand new theme



syms
September 25th, 2008, 04:51 PM
Im sad to announce that Ibex will not have a new theme, it will have some tweaks only. Also there will not be any new icon theme. The theme will not be dramatically changed from alpha releases. Why? Well there are lack of good and experienced desingers.
Also you should read this
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Mindset

tuxxy
September 25th, 2008, 04:57 PM
Thats a shame, I like the original NewHuman theme, not run anything else in Ibex yet :(

crwmike
September 25th, 2008, 06:15 PM
I like the New-Human version in the Alpha 6. I would like to see it kept as an available theme, not default. If not, I'm sure it will show up at Gnome-Look.

Gutt
September 25th, 2008, 06:23 PM
It's a shame... But oh well, guess we'll have to wait until Jaunty Jackalope :-D to maybe see some new themes!

Joe_Bishop
September 25th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Thank god, these guys are clever enough to do NewHuman default one! :D

Nano Geek
September 25th, 2008, 08:27 PM
Im sad to announce that Ibex will not have a new theme, it will have some tweaks only. Also there will not be any new icon theme. The theme will not be dramatically changed from alpha releases. Why? Well there are lack of good and experienced desingers.
Also you should read this
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/MindsetI don't see how that article proves anything about a new theme for Intrepid. It isn't from anyone important in Ubuntu development, and it hasn't been announced on the mailing-lists either.

Seems like we would see it there first.

eragon100
September 25th, 2008, 08:29 PM
****!

olskar
September 25th, 2008, 08:36 PM
I don't see how that article proves anything about a new theme for Intrepid. It isn't from anyone important in Ubuntu development, and it hasn't been announced on the mailing-lists either.

Seems like we would see it there first.

I agree with you and hope we don't see an official announcement about this.

mpgarate
September 25th, 2008, 09:37 PM
this would be so annoying. Especially since it was postponed from the hardy release also!

smartboyathome
September 25th, 2008, 10:19 PM
That isn't saying there won't be a new theme. Canonical is working on it, it is just the Ubuntu Art team laying out the rules for the community themes. That is all the Art team does, work on community artwork.

cardinals_fan
September 26th, 2008, 12:44 AM
Oh dear. Maybe they'll actually spend some time working on things that have take more than 5 seconds to change. That would be a shame, wouldn't it?

Merk42
September 26th, 2008, 01:37 AM
Oh dear. Maybe they'll actually spend some time working on things that have take more than 5 seconds to change. That would be a shame, wouldn't it?

Flawed argument for two reasons.

1. Even if the theme is easily changed, that doesn't mean that we should be stuck with one that many people don't like.

2. If you're referring to fixing bugs, the people who would design a new theme are not, and should not be, the same people that would be fixing bugs.

exploder
September 26th, 2008, 01:55 AM
This post comes as no surprise, there is always an excuse for not having a new theme.

smartboyathome
September 26th, 2008, 03:35 AM
This post comes as no surprise, there is always an excuse for not having a new theme.

There is going to be a new theme. Why would Kenneth tell us there was going to be one made from Canonical if there wasn't.

Teamgeist
September 26th, 2008, 07:51 AM
The Ubuntu Art Team is NOT doing the default art for Ubuntu. It is going to provide some extra themes for Ubuntu.

Dust is a very good example for it.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/DustTheme

It can be found in kwii's PPA and is part of the community-themes package.


deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kwwii/ubuntu intrepid main
deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/kwwii/ubuntu intrepid main

You can use it in Hardy also and test it.


deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kwwii/ubuntu hardy main
deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/kwwii/ubuntu hardy main

And also report bugs to launchpad on it: https://launchpad.net/dusttheme

Have fun.

aescnt
September 26th, 2008, 10:08 AM
Re: Dust theme:
May I just add that the version in the wiki is /much/ more updated than the one in the PPA. :)

thorwil
September 26th, 2008, 01:29 PM
The original poster is a troll who has been pestering us on #ubuntu-artwork. Any attention given to him is not just wasted, but harmful, as it encourages even more of the bad behaviour.

The cited Kyūdō page refers to the general situation and is of no relevance to the issue at hand.

The artwork team is not involved with the default them. If Canonical's art director (Kenneth) sees something he thinks is suitable, he will pick it up. The final decision is always up to Mark Shuttleworth. This happened with the Hardy Heron. Still, I have to repeat, the artwork team is not working on the default theme.


Now for whether there will be a "brand new theme" or not, why don't you all just wait and see? You will have more than enough time to complain afterwards, anyway ;)

lyceum
September 27th, 2008, 01:43 AM
Even if there is a new theme, it will look just as bad as all the others. You have to love Ubuntu for what it is and what it does and not for its looks. Keep in mind that although Mark is Pimping Ubuntu out to Linux geeks businesses, and even new Linux users he has stated that it is ready for the main stream, regular home users. While I disagree, I am not shelling out millions to make this run. My guess, he will be sure it keeps looking bad to scare away non-geeks until he thinks it is really ready to compete with Mac and Windows home users. Brown can look good, but it won't until Mark feels Ubuntu is ready for the big time.

Until then, gnome-look is the best we can hope for.

](*,)

TheSlipstream
September 27th, 2008, 09:45 AM
My guess, he will be sure it keeps looking bad to scare away non-geeks until he thinks it is really ready to compete with Mac and Windows home users. Brown can look good, but it won't until Mark feels Ubuntu is ready for the big time.

Until then, gnome-look is the best we can hope for.

](*,)

So Mark's strategy is to stop Mac and Windows users from using Ubuntu by making it ugly. His goal is to pour millions into producing a Linux distribution, creating end user friendly features and promoting it as "Linux for Humans", but secretly he doesn't want to make money from his users so he decides to make his disto ugly in an attempt to stop users from coming and thus, stop himself from reclaiming his investment and gaining new Linux users.

Joe_Bishop
September 27th, 2008, 10:05 AM
Yes, it's kind of dullness to insist theme must be "brown and nothing else". This sluggishness leads to end, colors should be quite contrast and easy to eyes, not "brown". But I should say current tuned human theme is much better than crappy NewHuman.

Gutt
September 27th, 2008, 11:23 AM
So Mark's strategy is to stop Mac and Windows users from using Ubuntu by making it ugly. His goal is to pour millions into producing a Linux distribution, creating end user friendly features and promoting it as "Linux for Humans", but secretly he doesn't want to make money from his users so he decides to make his disto ugly in an attempt to stop users from coming and thus, stop himself from reclaiming his investment and gaining new Linux users.

I guess so :lolflag:.

Brown isn't the most attractive color, but as long as you can have gnome-looks, having a top-notch state of the art default theme isn't the most important thing to have.
But, I'd still like to see new things implemented in the theme as Ubuntu goes... and maybe something not brown ?

masterconnor
September 27th, 2008, 02:01 PM
this is a shame. i have been following the art mailing list for a while and it's really disappointing the amount of compromises that are being made each day (dust theme for example)

it was mentioned that ubuntu was hiring a new design team. where are they ? i cannot stress the importance of hiring young design students if ubuntu has the money. similar to how apple changed its fortunes by hiring http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Ive

it's not about the colour brown. it's the spacing, the different sized bits, the awful fonts, the pixellated round corners, the ugly default wallpaper, the amateurish glossy icons. the default desktop should be as minimal as possible. the only nice design i have seen is http://crunchbang.org/projects/linux/ simply because it keeps things simple.

when these problems are pointed out the response is "ubuntu is not osx, ubuntu is not windows.."

also i would suggest that perhaps instead of the mailing list that the art team use the messageboard ? the mailing list is hard to read. it just repeats the same messages over and over and over with little bits added each time.

Joe_Bishop
September 27th, 2008, 02:30 PM
I have seen this "crunchbang" and have noticed nothing you called "nice design". I mean, geeks loving their crappy "dark" themes should keep their mouth up and listen to serious guys with good taste :)

masterconnor
September 27th, 2008, 02:57 PM
it has nothing to do with how dark it is. stick a white wallpaper on it and it would still be good. opensuse and mint linux are two of the better ones also. i personally agree that dark/gothy/grungey themes are not the way to go.

Flimm
September 27th, 2008, 03:13 PM
Personally, I like the Human theme and I dislike the NewHuman theme. But I'm all for change, decent is not the same as excellent!

lyceum
September 27th, 2008, 03:30 PM
So Mark's strategy is to stop Mac and Windows users from using Ubuntu by making it ugly. His goal is to pour millions into producing a Linux distribution, creating end user friendly features and promoting it as "Linux for Humans", but secretly he doesn't want to make money from his users so he decides to make his disto ugly in an attempt to stop users from coming and thus, stop himself from reclaiming his investment and gaining new Linux users.

What other logical conclusion do you come up with?

Fact: Windows is everywhere.
Fact: Vista only looks as good as it does to compete with Mac
Fact: Mac is beautiful
Fact: One of the appeals to Mac is that it is different, another is that it looks so cool
Fact: Ubuntu is ugly
Fact: Mark has stated that Ubuntu is ready for businesses but not home users
Fact: It is Mark that keeps Ubuntu looking ugly, with the exception of the startup art, which is VERY cool
Fact: normal people like things to look good

What do these facts tell you? Ubuntu is doing better than any other Linux distro for home users. Dell still sells it to "hobbyists" I am not a hobbyist. I am an artist and web designer. I have no problems using Ubuntu, though I do have an IQ of 176, so I may not be the best person to see as an average. I have set well over 100 people up on Ubuntu systems, of which only 2 went back to Windows, one when she bought a new PC and the other when her sound card broke and she thought Ubuntu broke it (the card was just old). All of the people I "converted" only used PCs at work, these were their first home computers. All of them stated that they would have never bought an Ubuntu PC if they would have seen it first in its native brown. All of them stated they loved Ubuntu.

I cannot read Mark's mind, but I know he is a smart guy. If I wanted something to be huge, but did not think it was ready for the masses I would make it ugly and give it to the people that will test the crap out of it to be sure it is perfect before giving it to the general public (advertising it in the mass media). I could be wrong, but I think that when Mark feels that it is ready for everyone Ubuntu will be beautiful. Until then it will look (not human) like mud.

Keep in mind, if Ubuntu was beautiful and didn't work right for home users, it would have the same problems Vista has now, but without the fall back of XP that MS has.

My 2 cents

Flimm
September 27th, 2008, 05:28 PM
What other logical conclusion do you come up with?

Fact: Windows is everywhere.True

Fact: Vista only looks as good as it does to compete with MacThat's an assumption. Windows XP had an entirely new look without any prodding from the competition, so it's safe to assume Vista would have had a new look regardless.

Fact: Mac is beautifulThat's a matter of opinion, I personally find it's quite bland. What makes it cool is that it's consistent.

Fact: One of the appeals to Mac is that it is different, another is that it looks so coolThis also applies to Linux in general, although to a lesser extent to Ubuntu itself.

Fact: Ubuntu is uglyI disagree, I love the Ubuntu colours, they feel 'homely'.

Fact: Mark has stated that Ubuntu is ready for businesses but not home usersWhen did he say that? Most people usually say the opposite.

Fact: It is Mark that keeps Ubuntu looking ugly, with the exception of the startup art, which is VERY coolAnd people like me, who actually like Ubuntu's looks! ;)

Fact: normal people like things to look goodVery, very true.

It's smart for Ubuntu not to copy Mac and Windows too much, it must stay distinctive.

If some one came along and gave Ubuntu a fresh look which is consistent and distinctive, I would support it. I'm all for looking goood.

jonian_g
September 27th, 2008, 09:51 PM
I'm tired of people saying: my wife, my girlfriend, my child, my mother, my grandmother, my grandfather that died in ww2, the prostitute that lives next door, a guy in my neighborhood that beats his wife every morning, the ugliest girl in my class and everyone that walks on this planet, hate the way ubuntu looks.

I have installed ubuntu for many of my friends and no one of them thought that it is ugly. I have even told them about gnome-look and most of them use the default theme. The only thing that they changed was the wallpaper, but most people change their wallpapers every week.

And by the way ubuntu is not brown(mud), is orange and many people like that colour, including me. I even have an orange car.


What other logical conclusion do you come up with?

Fact: Windows is everywhere.
Fact: Vista only looks as good as it does to compete with Mac
Fact: Mac is beautiful
Fact: One of the appeals to Mac is that it is different, another is that it looks so cool
Fact: Ubuntu is ugly
Fact: Mark has stated that Ubuntu is ready for businesses but not home users
Fact: It is Mark that keeps Ubuntu looking ugly, with the exception of the startup art, which is VERY cool
Fact: normal people like things to look good

1, is a fact. The other are personal opinions. And as for the last one, I think ubuntu looks good. Does that make me abnormal?

Gutt
September 27th, 2008, 10:06 PM
Looks aren't everything. It's not because it isn't pretty that it wont be performant.

rudihawk
September 28th, 2008, 12:29 PM
Not one person that I have shown my ubuntu say it was ugly.

A friend and I installed it on a PC at school, and not one of the guys in the computer science class said it looked bad. Ubuntu is not ugly! Its nice, earthy, homely.

lyceum
September 28th, 2008, 01:19 PM
Looks aren't everything. It's not because it isn't pretty that it wont be performant.

It is true that looks aren't everything, that is why I use Ubuntu. If you want to sell it you have to make it look good. Maybe that is just a A.D.D. U.S.A. thing? I got my info from Google news over the past few years and all of the people I know, and they are all younger (between 16 and 35), for the most part. None of them served in WWII or anything. With the exception of my sister and my father, my family won't even look at Ubuntu because I use it, they think it will be too hard. My brother asks for CDs every time a new version comes out, but they are all still in their sleeves. My dad is dual booted, still using 7.10. My sister was using 6.10 until she got a new laptop a few months ago. I realizes that 100+ people I set up on Ubuntu (these are people I use to work with and their family and friends, not my personal friends) is not a lot compared to the 6 billion on the planet. I do find it odd that 100% of them think the mud brown wallpaper mixed with the brown/orange is ugly while the people here in the forums that do like it think they are in the majority, just like we that do not. The truth is that someone somewhere is bound to like it. That does not make it the best choice in ascetics. As one who is studying marketing and design in collage and that works with both for a living, I may not be a world expert, but I know what I know. Brown and orange used here does not look good. All of the other 'ubuntus look better, from a design and marketing stand point.

My 2 cents, feel free to disagree. Everyone likes what they like.

brandon88tube
September 29th, 2008, 05:19 AM
I don't think the default theme is horrible, its not bad, but it could be improved upon. A new theme in Ibex would be nice though. If it doesn't happen its not like I'm going to die.

oasick
September 29th, 2008, 03:28 PM
Sorry, but this is a very bad new... The Ubuntu theme is horrible.

Ub1476
September 29th, 2008, 04:31 PM
Has anyone yet asked for the sources from the OP? I think we'll see some changes, but it wont look like OS X just yet. They need to fix font hinting and the space usage for that.

Gutt
September 29th, 2008, 07:26 PM
If you want to sell it you have to make it look good.

True, but Ubuntu's looks aren't that bad, they're just not too good :D . Brown and Orange isn't the best mix, and I do think that Ubuntu's looks should be re-worked on, or at least they could propose something new...

BeauBridges
September 29th, 2008, 10:21 PM
Grrr, grrrr, and some more grrr..

WiegrafFolles
September 30th, 2008, 07:07 AM
Orange is a great color for Ubuntu, but brown not so much. I like the Orange so much I have my OS X machine set up with as much Orange as possible!

airtonix
October 1st, 2008, 12:53 PM
/sarcasm
Oh no this issue is so important...because we all know that its not possible to change the theme & icons?

le-sigh, how long does it take to grab some themes from : gnome-look? customize.org ? deviant-art?

seriously : pointless issue is pointless. this is the kind of tantrum that should be instigated with picket lines outside redmond.

Protest People....START YOUR ENGINES!

oh btw, theme editors: have a look at the package 'ginspector'.


apt-cache show ginspector

sudo apt-get install ginspector

~$ g-inspector

syms
October 1st, 2008, 04:47 PM
Hello again,
There's still a chance that beta can have new look, but these chances are not big. So watch that - Ubuntu 8.10 beta will be released tommorow :D . Let's hope for the best :)

Gutt
October 1st, 2008, 05:18 PM
Hello again,
There's still a chance that beta can have new look, but these chances are not big. So watch that - Ubuntu 8.10 beta will be released tommorow :D . Let's hope for the best :)

Let's hope :) , but I doubt anything will chane really.

Merk42
October 1st, 2008, 11:55 PM
/sarcasm
Oh no this issue is so important...because we all know that its not possible to change the theme & icons?

le-sigh, how long does it take to grab some themes from : gnome-look? customize.org ? deviant-art?

le-sigh and when will people understand that for new users, first impressions are a big thing. Just because we CAN change the theme, doesn't mean we should have to.

Considering the popularity of such threads as this, I'd say it is important in general, just not important to you.

Neon Lights
October 2nd, 2008, 06:10 AM
/sarcasm
Oh no this issue is so important...because we all know that its not possible to change the theme & icons?

le-sigh, how long does it take to grab some themes from : gnome-look? customize.org ? deviant-art?




I hate hate hate it when people say this.
You want a product to look good AS IS.

You don't want to have to mount your hard drives when you boot up. You don't want to have to configure the hell out of X. You don't want to go search for a theme so your eyes don't bleed.

I'm exaggerating a little bit obviously. But I can't think of a good analogy. Sue me.
People take things by their first impression. That's not universal, but it applies to most people, so you have to consider it. You want a theme that's accepted by the majority. Which Human obviously is not.

I don't think it's the most pressing issue; However, a lot of people do, so I do think it should be addressed, especially when it's been promised for a year now.

kamitsukai
October 2nd, 2008, 05:10 PM
I hate hate hate it when people say this.
You want a product to look good AS IS.

You don't want to have to mount your hard drives when you boot up. You don't want to have to configure the hell out of X. You don't want to go search for a theme so your eyes don't bleed.

I'm exaggerating a little bit obviously. But I can't think of a good analogy. Sue me.
People take things by their first impression. That's not universal, but it applies to most people, so you have to consider it. You want a theme that's accepted by the majority. Which Human obviously is not.

I don't think it's the most pressing issue; However, a lot of people do, so I do think it should be addressed, especially when it's been promised for a year now.

Finally someone that actually understands:KS

mpgarate
October 2nd, 2008, 05:23 PM
finally someone that actually understands:ks

+1

Gutt
October 2nd, 2008, 06:16 PM
First impressions can be very important. Sure, you can change the wallpaper and the theme etc. etc but having an ugly default is never a good thing. When creating something that's meant to be for everyone, you can always try to look good :-D .

smartboyathome
October 2nd, 2008, 06:21 PM
First impressions are extremely important. Sure, you can change the wallpaper and the theme etc. etc. But having an ugly default is never a good thing.

Exactly. And before people say "To do this, get rid of the brown!", brown can look good, look at chocolate, brown leather, and even wood. These all are brown and can look good. Its just implimentation.

terrax
October 2nd, 2008, 06:34 PM
What other logical conclusion do you come up with?

Fact: Windows is everywhere.
Fact: Vista only looks as good as it does to compete with Mac
Fact: Mac is beautiful
Fact: One of the appeals to Mac is that it is different, another is that it looks so cool
Fact: Ubuntu is ugly
Fact: Mark has stated that Ubuntu is ready for businesses but not home users
Fact: It is Mark that keeps Ubuntu looking ugly, with the exception of the startup art, which is VERY cool
Fact: normal people like things to look good

What do these facts tell you? Ubuntu is doing better than any other Linux distro for home users. Dell still sells it to "hobbyists" I am not a hobbyist. I am an artist and web designer. I have no problems using Ubuntu, though I do have an IQ of 176, so I may not be the best person to see as an average. I have set well over 100 people up on Ubuntu systems, of which only 2 went back to Windows, one when she bought a new PC and the other when her sound card broke and she thought Ubuntu broke it (the card was just old). All of the people I "converted" only used PCs at work, these were their first home computers. All of them stated that they would have never bought an Ubuntu PC if they would have seen it first in its native brown. All of them stated they loved Ubuntu.

I cannot read Mark's mind, but I know he is a smart guy. If I wanted something to be huge, but did not think it was ready for the masses I would make it ugly and give it to the people that will test the crap out of it to be sure it is perfect before giving it to the general public (advertising it in the mass media). I could be wrong, but I think that when Mark feels that it is ready for everyone Ubuntu will be beautiful. Until then it will look (not human) like mud.

Keep in mind, if Ubuntu was beautiful and didn't work right for home users, it would have the same problems Vista has now, but without the fall back of XP that MS has.

My 2 cents

Funny. That was acutally my own thoughts, before I read your post. It makes totally sence, Mark not yet revealing Ubuntu, before it is totally ready.

If Ubuntu got a new pretty default theme, its a fact more people wants to try it. When you look at a nicelooking theme, you actually combines it with quality, and wants to try it. Ubuntu might be ready for the mainstream, but if it isn't, it can damage Ubuntu in the long run. If peoples have problems with Ubuntu, they might leave it as quickly as they got it, AND NEVER COME BACK. Thats the whole problem, releasing a good looking version of Ubuntu, before its 100 % ready. Then,,, when its 100 % ready, Mark is putting a new look on Ubuntu, and everybody would think Quality! and a good alternative to windows. And actually thats what they get, if Mark wait some more.

Don't get me wrong, I love Ubuntu. Its my only OS. But cmon. We have all been there. Having to compile drivers for the wireless LAN card. Fighting with ATI and NVIDIA drivers, tweaking the hell out of wine etc etc etc. Yeah ok my girlfriend, who knows nothing about computer runs Ubuntu without problems. But thats because I have set it up for her.

I just think Ubuntu is ready for a lot of people. Just not everybody. Not without a linux-user as backup.

But the time is soon, when Ubuntu / linux is ready to take over the world. But lets keep in hide, before we really wants to show the OS off :P

Sorry for my English. Its not my native language, as you might guess,

Neffscape
October 3rd, 2008, 03:30 AM
I just don't understand why Ubuntu Artwork team doesn't want to implement the wonderful dust theme that's actually being developed. It's everyday nicer and better integrated. I wonder what the artwork team thinks about it

Joe_Bishop
October 3rd, 2008, 07:51 AM
Dark theme could not be nicer by definition ;)

smartboyathome
October 3rd, 2008, 05:00 PM
I just don't understand why Ubuntu Artwork team doesn't want to implement the wonderful dust theme that's actually being developed. It's everyday nicer and better integrated. I wonder what the artwork team thinks about it

Because there are too many bugs with the programs adopting the themes. There are bugs in Firefox, OpenOffice.org, Abiword, and others which don't adopt the GTK theme correctly. That is why they don't use Dust.

Besides, the artwork team works on COMMUNITY ART, not default art. So we have no control there what gets put in and what doesn't.

SeanHodges
October 3rd, 2008, 05:19 PM
Lets just say you guys get your way, and we end up with a completely different theme with a completely different colour scheme and everything...

We would then end up with a different bunch of people, flooding the Forums and mailing lists with "I don't like the new theme, I don't like the colour and the wallpaper doesn't go with my curtains".


I'm glad they didn't change the theme too much. It means I won't have to put up with an immature inconsistent theme for 6 months (I don't have the time and energy to customise my theme), and those people who don't like the current one will just trundle off to gnome-looks to pick their favourite one anyway.

I can also confirm that the majority of people that I know do like the theme in Ubuntu. In fact I even know one person who uses the Human theme in Fedora.

V for Vincent
October 3rd, 2008, 10:36 PM
Well, you're right about it always being a matter of preference. I've always kind of liked the default ubuntu setups myself (though I do feel that the ibex beta wallpaper is an eyesore), but it would be nice if the OS came with some extra, completely integrated themes. Let's say three, that would already allow for very diverse setups.

Now, there's lots of stuff on gnome-look etc., obviously, but consistency isn't something anyone can pull off, and it can be hard to find the good stuff on the net. I believe there's someone on these forums working on a program that can change your entire theme in one click, and it'd be great if ubuntu made use of something like that. Sure, it'd take up some cd/disk space, but come on. There's a lot of stuff on an ubuntu cd you could do without, and you could still get programs through apt (which, for uncommon programs, seems like less of a hassle than spending heaps of time modifying your desktop appearance).