Of all the stupid things to say...

[matthew]

"Deferred Success" is new term for failure?

By Arthur Spiegelman 2 hours, 49 minutes ago

LINK TO ARTICLE: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051118/od_nm/odd_words_dc

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - In 2005, some people wanted the word "brainstorming" replaced by "thought shower" so as not to offend people with brain disorders, and they also wanted "deferred success" to replace "failure" so as not to embarrass those who don't succeed.

Both phrases appear on a tongue-in-cheek list released on Thursday of the year's most politically correct words and phrases issued by Global Language Monitor, a nonprofit group that monitors language use.

The phrase that topped this year's list was "misguided criminals," one of several terms the British Broadcasting Corporation used so as not to use the word "terrorist" in describing those who carried out train and bus bombings in London that killed 52 people in July, according to Paul JJ Payack, the head of Global Language Monitor.

He added, "The BBC attempts to strip away all emotion by using what it considers 'neutral' descriptions when describing those who carried out the bombings in the London Tubes."

Second on the list was "Intrinsic Aptitude," a phrase used by Harvard University President Lawrence Summers to explain why women might be underrepresented in engineering and science. The phrase met with "deferred success" and Summers had to fight to keep to his job.

"Thought shower" was third and a French word for riff-raff or scum, "la racaille," was fourth thanks to being used by French Interior Minister Nicholas Sarkozy to describe rioters of Muslim and North African descent in suburbs outside of Paris.

"Out of the mainstream," which Payack said was used to describe the ideology of any political opponent, was fifth and in sixth place was "deferred success" the euphemism for "fail" that Britain's Professional Association of Teachers considered using to bolster students' "self-esteem." The move met with "deferred success."

Seventh on the list was "womyn" for women in order to distance the word from men and eighth was using C.E. (Common Era) for A.D (Latin for "Year of Our Lord") so as to be more neutral in dates.

Ninth on the top 10 list was words and phrases that either de-Christianize the Christian holidays or neuter their genders. For example "God Rest Ye Merry Persons" replaces "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen" and "Seasons Greetings" replaces "Merry Christmas."

In 10th place was a move aimed at the heart of Australian culture when security staff were banned from using the word "mate" to address members of parliament. The MPs rebelled and said not being called "mate" was unpatriotic.

[poptones]

well... some of them are funny, but "Christmas" isn't the only holiday that time of year and saying "Merry Christmas" to a jew is pretty silly.

Frankly, I love the TV ads (especially Target and the Royal Cruise lines ads) and I'm neither jewish nor christian. I suspect anyone calling "holiday season" a phrase of political correctness in actuality has a religious agenda of their own...

[Master Shake]

I have to chime in here...

As a very backslidden Christian, if a jew were to tell me Happy Hannukah, or a muslim Happy Ramadan, or a martian tell me Happy Martian Holiday, I wouldn't be offended. In fact, I'd be flattered that someone went out of their way to bless me at this time of the year.

Happy HOlidays is nothing more than a way to deprive ALL religious tradition of their own individuality.

We can't keep trying to not offend anyone. Its impossible. Somewhere, someone will be offended at something. Be it telling someone Merry Christmas, to tieing your shoe the wrong way.

Everyone needs to lighten up.

[matthew]

well... some of them are funny, but "Christmas" isn't the only holiday that time of year and saying "Merry Christmas" to a jew is pretty silly.

Frankly, I love the TV ads (especially Target and the Royal Cruise lines ads) and I'm neither jewish nor christian. I suspect anyone calling "holiday season" a phrase of political correctness in actuality has a religious agenda of their own...Yeah, probably. At least from a government that rules over a very diverse population.

On the other hand, I spent many years living in a Muslim country. I wasn't the least bit offended when I was greeted warmly and with good wishes for a pleasant Aid al-Kebir or other religious holidays that have no real bearing on my life.

I didn't get upset when my Jewish neighbors invited me to a seder--actually I felt rather honored.

I suppose it really depends on the motives of the person doing the wishing and also the sensitivity of the one receiving those wishes. Sometimes people want to say things at inappropriate times in inappropriate places and demand that as a right. Other times things are said in kindness and innocence and someone is still offended.

Really there are people on both sides that need to chill out and learn to treat others with respect.

[Brunellus]

"happy holidays" is a creation of a culture that values the holidays not for the opportunities they afford for reflection or celebration, but for their retail value.

[cstudent]

I hate political correctness. I have a lot more respect for someone that speaks exactly what's on his/her mind as opposed to someone that sugarcoats their words for the sake of not offending anyone. A rose by any other name is still a rose and crap is still crap.

Bill

[Master Shake]

I hate political correctness. I have a lot more respect for someone that speaks exactly what's on his/her mind as opposed to someone that sugarcoats their words for the sake of not offending anyone. A rose by any other name is still a rose and crap is still crap.

Bill

Bravo! My thoughts exactly!

[poptones]

...I spent many years living in a Muslim country. I wasn't the least bit offended when I was greeted warmly and with good wishes for a pleasant Aid al-Kebir or other religious holidays that have no real bearing on my life.

I can see that. I'm from the Detroit area myself and have had several friends in my life of mideastern and mediterranean descent (in fact, my lifelong best friend is half Syrian).

But it also really doesn't mean anything. I once said "merry christmas" to a friend of mine who was a practicing jew - he kinda laughed and said "yeah, and happy hannukah to you." The we both laughed at how silly the whole thing is.

It's kind of funny how some of those bemoaning "happy holidays" for its political correctness are, in the same phrase, bemoaning how this is "stripping the holiday of its religious meaning" and 'reducing it to a celebration of retail value." I mean... did no one pick up on the fact I just made the point those calls about "political correctness" are very often motivated by a religious agenda?

Christmas means nothing to me so far as jesus or hannukah or whatever the hell muslims may practice this time of year - I simply don't care and, frankly, I want no part of it. But I love the jingly ads on tv and I'm even on of those weirdos who has christmas lights strung up all year just because they look pretty.

I suppose it really depends on the motives of the person doing the wishing and also the sensitivity of the one receiving those wishes.

Exactly. I've had people tell me they'll "pray for me" when we have disagreed. I want or need no part of their "prayers" and usually tell them so in no uncertain terms.

[Brad wilkinson]

In 10th place was a move aimed at the heart of Australian culture when security staff were banned from using the word "mate" to address members of parliament. The MPs rebelled and said not being called "mate" was unpatriotic.

meh. I dunno how everyone else does it, but generally we like to "humor" our politicians down under.

If they think we're not listening to them, they start to do things to get attention. then we have trouble......

/ot rant start tag

on an irellevant side note, do you know who had the best organised schedule of any australian at the 2000 olyimpics? the prime minister. I don't think there was one medal ceremony (that we were expecting to be in) where he wasn't in the crowd, waving like a lunatic.

well what's strange about that I can hear you thinking?

He's not our head of state! That's the governor-General's job.

/ot rant end tag

[matthew]

I mean... did no one pick up on the fact I just made the point those calls about "political correctness" are very often motivated by a religious agenda? I thought I did right here.

Sometimes people want to say things at inappropriate times in inappropriate places and demand that as a right. Perhaps I expressed myself too subtly.

[matthew]

well what's strange about that I can hear you thinking?

He's not our head of state! That's the governor-General's job.
That's funny. I've come to believe that deep inside every politician there is a dysfunctional need to be noticed.

[poptones]

Perhaps I expressed myself too subtly.

Perhaps you were just wrong.

It is my right... whether I demand it or not.

[MetalMusicAddict]

Really there are people on both sides that need to chill out and learn to treat others with respect.
Applies to some more than others. ;)

[briguy]

Merry Christmas, everyone! :)

[MetalMusicAddict]

No, Happy Chrismahanukwanzakah. ;)

[Iandefor]

I think that whoever's trying to institute all these euphemisms has a noble cause (They don't want people to be hurt), the problem lies in that they attempt to enforce a cultural homogeneity upon people in the mistaken belief that diversity will lead to conflict. I think it really comes down to the person; let someone greet you and bless you in their own way and be honoured that they have seen fit to bless you. I myself am agnostic, but I don't get offended if people wish me a happy [Insert Holiday Here] even though those holidays bear no special significance towards me.

[matthew]

Perhaps I expressed myself too subtly.

Perhaps you were just wrong.

It is my right... whether I demand it or not. That's amusing. You are trolling for an argument, aren't you? Okay, I'll bite, but just this once today.

It's also my right to ignore you and walk away. It is not necessary to respond to each and every thing people say that I don't agree with. I'm doing it once on this thread, right now. Why? Because you are being rude. My guess [based on many threads, not just this one] is that whenever you speak it is dripping with sarcasm or disdain and you read the words of others as if they were written in the same vein. Mine were not. I was speaking in such a way as to attempt to put the blame for the misunderstanding upon myself rather than point at you or anyone else.

You said that you think calls about "political correctness" are often motivated by a religious agenda. I responded by quoting myself when I said that sometimes people want to say things at inappropriate times in inappropriate places and demand that as a right. I was pointing to religious zealots demanding their favorite religious symbol be posted clearly in front of the local government office, that prayers to their favorite deity be spoken publically before the beginning of official legislative or court sessions. How was I "just wrong?"

Maybe I should modify my phrase to give it a different meaning: "sometimes people (like poptones) want to say things (make accusations) at inappropriate times (because the accusations don't fit) in inappropriate places (a public forum where you look like a fool in front of large numbers of people) and demand that as a right."

Um...on second thought, if you want that right you can have it.

Oh, here's your bait back. Next time you troll me you will be promptly and completely ignored.

[matthew]

Really there are people on both sides that need to chill out and learn to treat others with respect.Applies to some more than others. ;) Very true. I know I have been guilty from time to time. :)

[matthew]

I think that whoever's trying to institute all these euphemisms has a noble cause (They don't want people to be hurt), the problem lies in that they attempt to enforce a cultural homogeneity upon people in the mistaken belief that diversity will lead to conflict. I think it really comes down to the person; let someone greet you and bless you in their own way and be honoured that they have seen fit to bless you.Well said. Thank you.

[poptones]

I was pointing to religious zealots demanding their favorite religious symbol be posted clearly in front of the local government office, that prayers to their favorite deity be spoken publically before the beginning of official legislative or court sessions. How was I "just wrong?"

Aha! And I deliberately said "I" (have that right) as opposed to "we" because I was putting it upon myself - but I do not in any way mean I alone, or not you.

IOW, you really swallowed that bait. No throwing you back now...

People do have the right to speak public prayers in public places - yes, even at government meetings. See, I maintain a visible contempt for organized religion but that also is to serve my agenda - so no one can ever claim I am defending the rights of these others to speak their ridiculous prayers because I have some interest in preserving my religious practices.

Don't you see the irony here? If you support the rights of others to speak, then you support their right to speak even in an inappropriate manner. Protesters have the right to heckle George Bush or Tony Blair or even Khofi Ahnan if it suits them - that's all part of being heard and generating discussion. It's how we maintain freedom and not simply the appearance of freedom.

So long as participation is voluntary and not forced, it's just as much **** Cheney's right to lead a Hebrew prayer on the floor of Congress as it is my right to fart in church during communion. Is it rude? Inconsiderate? Maybe.. so what? It is my right to be inconsiderate of your feelings. It is my right to engage in speech which offends - it's not just about marking territory, it's about preserving everyone's right to be heard no matter how bizarre their ideals.

If more of the people who talk about the evils of political correctness would actually develop some consistency (ie walk the walk they try to talk) the nation's "religious leaders" would have had far less ammunition to use in rounding up those dominionist lunatics who helped re-elect the lying parasite we're boarding in the white house another two years.

[MetalMusicAddict]

IOW, you really swallowed that bait. No throwing you back now...If you want to constantly argue/bait people (as you often do here) go be a lawer or do it somewhere else. Admitting to it is just being an ass.

You often turn topics into "rights/freedom" rants that quickly turn a thread downhill and people are getting tired of it.

[BoyOfDestiny]

I hate political correctness. I have a lot more respect for someone that speaks exactly what's on his/her mind as opposed to someone that sugarcoats their words for the sake of not offending anyone. A rose by any other name is still a rose and crap is still crap.

Bill

I agree, I mean there are times where you may want to sugar coat things...other than that it's lame.

My least favorite are that some people are offended by the terms master/slave (in regard to hard drive dipswitches) and that guy trying to push the term "heaveno" instead of "hello", since hello has "hell" in it...

Feel free to google these if you think I'm joking. :)

[matthew]

My least favorite are that some people are offended by the terms master/slave (in regard to hard drive dipswitches) and that guy trying to push the term "heaveno" instead of "hello", since hello has "hell" in it...
I knew about and agree with you on the master/slave thing--prime example of hypersensitivity.

I had never heard of the heaveno greeting so I googled it. After I quit laughing I had to post a huge "thank you" for providing today's amusement. This one doesn't scare me because it is so ridiculous that it will never be adopted...although, some of those others are just as silly to me so who knows!

[BoyOfDestiny]

I knew about and agree with you on the master/slave thing--prime example of hypersensitivity.

I had never heard of the heaveno greeting so I googled it. After I quit laughing I had to post a huge "thank you" for providing today's amusement. This one doesn't scare me because it is so ridiculous that it will never be adopted...although, some of those others are just as silly to me so who knows!

You're welcome. :)

[Carbon Copy Man]

I'm tired of political correctness and all kinds of stupid euphemisms. If they keep coming, we'll end up having no words at less than three syllables. Except, of course, for the four letter ones. ;)


My least favorite are that some people are offended by the terms master/slave (in regard to hard drive dipswitches) and that guy trying to push the term "heaveno" instead of "hello", since hello has "hell" in it...

We all know that computers were built to be sexy. What's wrong with a little bondage?

We're this close to having breeding computers...

I wonder whether anyone's offended by the term "dipswitches".

[Parkaboy]

I think that whoever's trying to institute all these euphemisms has a noble cause (They don't want people to be hurt), the problem lies in that they attempt to enforce a cultural homogeneity upon people in the mistaken belief that diversity will lead to conflict.

I could not agree more

[cstudent]

... Except, of course, for the four letter ones. ;)
...

And some people just can't say enough of those. :D

[Iandefor]

I agree, I mean there are times where you may want to sugar coat things...other than that it's lame.

My least favorite are that some people are offended by the terms master/slave (in regard to hard drive dipswitches) and that guy trying to push the term "heaveno" instead of "hello", since hello has "hell" in it...

Feel free to google these if you think I'm joking. :)

I did think you were joking, in terms of heaveno, up until I googled it... thanks for posting that, it really made my day!

[gw90se]

Can anything political ever be correct?

[jeremy]

As an aetheist who really does try to accept the fact that not everyone sees things the same way as I do, I must say that I find it offensive when someone says to me, for example, "thank god" or "god willing".

I find it especially offensive if I do something for someone, and they thank "god" when it is I who have done all the work!

[matthew]

Can anything political ever be correct?
Good question. I can't think of a specific counter-example so maybe it can't. :)

[matthew]

As an aetheist who really does try to accept the fact that not everyone sees things the same way as I do, I must say that I find it offensive when someone says to me, for example, "thank god" or "god willing".

I find it especially offensive if I do something for someone, and they thank "god" when it is I who have done all the work!
My entire post is being written with this tone: <friendly discussion>

Most of the time I encounter this being said it is said in a colloquial fashion. Kind of like when people ask "how are you?" when they mean "hello." For some who are very religious they seem to feel it promotes pride (not the good kind, I guess) to praise an individual or to receive praise themselves so they use "thank god" to mean either "thank you" or "you're welcome."

I'm not saying that's right, I'm just saying it probably isn't done with ill intent toward you. I personally would choose to say a direct "thank you" to a person and if I felt the need to thank God I would do so separately.

In the Arabic-speaking world "God willing" precedes or follows almost everything. For example: "I'm going to the store and I will bring home some food, God willing." It really used to annerve me when I entered a taxi and told the driver where I wanted to go and he would inevitably respond "God willing." Eventually I understood that he was trying to keep his own will in submission to the will of God..."if God has other plans then we will not make it to your destination, but I will do all I can to get us there." I don't agree completely with the foundation for their statement, but I now understand it and realize it is not being said with malice toward me nor with the intent of coercing me to believe as they do. It is simply that their beliefs are so ingrained they can't imagine anything different.

I can understand how that might get frustrating for someone who doesn't believe God exists. It might help to realize that for many people God is a vital part of their lives and trying to remove God from everything would be for them like trying to remove the blood from their bodies and have them continue to live. God is that much of an integral part of their lives. I don't think they have the right to put you down or belittle you nor force you to conform to their belief system, but I doubt that most people (I know there are glaring and offensive exceptions) are trying to make you submit to their beliefs when they say "god willing" or "thank god."

[mstlyevil]

As an aetheist who really does try to accept the fact that not everyone sees things the same way as I do, I must say that I find it offensive when someone says to me, for example, "thank god" or "god willing".

I find it especially offensive if I do something for someone, and they thank "god" when it is I who have done all the work!

Try not to take offense to it. They are thankfull to you to but they believe that God somehow sent you to help them. I believe in God but I am not offended by athiest saying there is no God. We should all accept that not everyone is going to believe every thing we believe and allow them some leeway to express their beliefs without taking offence just because we dissagree with them.

New topic:

Political correctness is just another attempt at censorship and limiting free speech. I am not going to sugar coat my words just to keep from offending someone. For example, I have a Uncle with Downs Syndrome. There are people out there that want us to sugar coat his mental retardation by calling it other less descriptive names. I love my Uncle dearly but he is retarded. This is not a put down but an actual description of his mental abilities. I on the other hand I am mentaly challenged but not retarded. I have a slight learning disability that causes me to have to focus harder on things and take a little more time to learn it.

If you take offence at me calling my Uncle retarded then you can take offence at what I am about to tell you. You can just bite me you sensitive jerk!

[matthew]

Political correctness is just another attempt at censorship and limiting free speech. I am not going to sugar coat my words just to keep from offending someone. For example, I have a Uncle with Downs Syndrome. There are people out there that want us to sugar coat his mental retardation by calling it other less descriptive names. I love my Uncle dearly but he is retarded. This is not a put down but an actual description of his mental abilities. I on the other hand I am mentaly challenged but not retarded. I have a slight learning disability that causes me to have to focus harder on things and take a little more time to learn it. Great addition to the discussion. Thanks. I will give a minor counter for the purposes of discussion. In those instances where language has truly shifted overall we probably do want to shift our usage as well.

For example, there was a time when "colored" was an acceptable way in society to refer to a person with darker skin (hence, the NAACP, National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, a civil rights organization for ethnic minorities in the United States). Today that term would usually be offensive and a person should probably not choose to use it in that context unless he wants to offend and wants for people to think of him as a racist.

If you take offence at me calling my Uncle retarded then you can take offence at what I am about to tell you. You can just bite me you sensitive jerk!ROTFL

[cstudent]

...For example, there was a time when "colored" was an acceptable way in society to refer to a person with darker skin (hence, the NAACP, National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, a civil rights organization for ethnic minorities in the United States). Today that term would usually be offensive and a person should probably not choose to use it in that context unless he wants to offend and wants for people to think of him as a racist.
ROTFL

My wife uses that term, but she's not trying to be offensive to anyone. Her parents grew up in Appalachian Kentucky and neither were overly educated. My wife was brought up hearing that term. She also says things like throwd and knowd for threw and knew. I use to try and break her of that, but she'd get mad. It just wasn't worth fighting over. I've gotten use to it, except for one. She says cousint for cousin. It drives me crazy! Sometimes she reminds me of the comedian Norm Crosby when she uses the wrong word. You'll know what she means, but it's funny. Never the less, for a girl who dropped out of high school six weeks before graduation (another story) she's certainly done herself proud. She is Vice President of Operations for a major steak house chain. When it comes to running a restaurant, the woman knows what she's doing.

Bill

[poptones]

In those instances where language has truly shifted overall we probably do want to shift our usage as well.

Just don't try to use the word "gay" to mean... well, gay. Slammin' and stupid might be the new cool, but it appears gay is holy to some...

I now understand it and realize it is not being said with malice toward me nor with the intent of coercing me to believe as they do. It is simply that their beliefs are so ingrained they can't imagine anything different.

Aha! Just like my jewish friend who chuckled and wished me "happy hannukah" when I wished hm "merry christmas." That seems to be OK, but if someone rejects christmas but still embraces the holiday season with a wish for happy holidays, apparently that's "political correctness" - it can't simply be that somone rejects christianity but still enjoys the frilly aesthetics of the season.

BTW, cstudent... remember that when your wife uses those words like "throwd" and "knowd" she's using older English than you. Technically, that would seem to make her more correct.

Ya know what sticks to my pot? When americans say "buffet." They even have billboards for "bufffet restaraunts" which they pronounce "buff-ay." well, it's not "buff-ay" - it's French meaning many foods and it's pronounced like bouquet, french for many flowers. Properly it is boufet (with the tilde but I am a lazy typist) but it has "evolved" in english to be something it was not.. just like "throwd" and "knowd" and.... showed.

[matthew]

Just don't try to use the word "gay" to mean... well, gay. Slammin' and stupid might be the new cool, but it appears gay is holy to some...
In which sense of the word?

gay adj
1: bright and pleasant; promoting a feeling of cheer; "a cheery hello"; "a gay sunny room"; "a sunny smile"
2: full of or showing high-spirited merriment; "when hearts were young and gay"; "a poet could not but be gay, in such a jocund company"- Wordsworth; "the jolly crowd at the reunion"; "jolly old Saint Nick"; "a jovial old gentleman"; "have a merry Christmas"; "peals of merry laughter"; "a mirthful laugh"
3: given to social pleasures often including dissipation; "led a gay Bohemian life"; "a gay old rogue with an eye for the ladies"
4: brightly colored and showy; "girls decked out in brave new dresses"; "brave banners flying"; "`braw' is a Scottish word"; "a dress a bit too gay for her years"; "birds with gay plumage"
5: offering fun and gaiety; "a gala ball after the inauguration"; "a festive (or festal) occasion"; "gay and exciting night life"; "a merry evening"
6: homosexual or arousing homosexual desires n : someone who practices homosexuality; having a sexual attraction to persons of the same sex

Oh, and since I was already on dictionary.com I thought I would add this:
buf&#183;fet Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (bhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gif-fhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/amacr.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gif, bhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/oomacr.gif-fhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/amacr.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gif)

[poptones]

Good job. You proved my point completely.

[matthew]

Good job. You proved my point completely. I don't hate you and I'm not out to get you. Sometimes you are actually correct. (Although the pronunciation key shows both forms as acceptable, not just your favorite.) I just like to have the evidence at hand rather than an assertion by itself.

[cstudent]

...BTW, cstudent... remember that when your wife uses those words like "throwd" and "knowd" she's using older English than you. Technically, that would seem to make her more correct...

Oh thanks. That's just what I need, more ammo for her to say she's always right. You ever been married? What about cousint? That's still wrong I hope. Regardless, it still drives me crazy! :)

PS: The steak house my wife works for is famous for it's all you can eat BUFFET. ;)

[poptones]

How's their psghetti?

[cstudent]

How's their psghetti?


Not bad, but their macaroni and cheese is fantastic.