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Curciat
September 10th, 2008, 09:56 PM
What I'm looking for in an O/S
I am currently considering Ubuntu, but before I go any further I must know whether it has advanced to the point where it is easy to use for a windows user (I don't want to learn code or juggle please, or read a manual, plug and play is good). To compete for me with Windows it must be as fast as Windows and as easy to use (It would be a big plus if it looked good. I know it's shallow but the beauty of it is important to daily use). I tried it years ago, and I couldn't even shut down without programming shut down or start up buttons. I used it maybe a week before I went back to windows (which IMO worked better for what I wanted to do with it.)

What I'm looking for in Word Processing:
Also the only serious word processor I found was open office writer, and to be honest that wasn't competition, (not to mention no publisher...). If I can easily use my current programs I will do that, but again it will take quite a bit to convince me that Ubuntu is worth the money to go re-license Publisher.


A note on Installation:
Also note I don't want to wait 10 weeks for CD's in the mail, and I don't have, nor do I need a burner (I'm not going to get a burner for something that I may not even use). I use flash drives as they are fast, friendly, and easy to use. I don't mind emulating or downloading something, as long as it isn't involved.

Recreation:
Finally, I am a bit of a gamer, what is the situation on that. Again I don't want to write a program to play WoW or my Age of Empires or any game for that matter. I don't mind something simple, so long as it is simple. Also not only WoW, but if "x" game or program were released I would want it to be compatible.

paul101
September 10th, 2008, 09:59 PM
why not download wubi?



you dont need a CD, its simple safe and easy to uninstall



http://wubi-installer.org/

Curciat
September 10th, 2008, 10:03 PM
Will it fulfill what I am trying to do?

bobnutfield
September 10th, 2008, 10:11 PM
(I don't want to learn code or juggle please, or read a manual, plug and play is good)

Linux is the most powerful, versitle and cutting edge operating system available. But based on the above, I don't think it is for you. You would be better off sticking with Windows.

Stunts
September 10th, 2008, 10:12 PM
Hello! And welcome back to Ubuntu - or at least the forums.
1. Ubuntu is in fact quite easy to use these days. In fact, after being experienced with it I find it easier to use then windows was for me. You must keep in mind that it's just not windows. It works in a different way. Make sure you have the mindset to adapt to that before you make the switch.
I never needed to juggle or code with it - I just wanted to after a while.
Ubuntu's speed is similar to that of win XP. I saw a benchmark of it some time ago, but I can't provide the link. The real difference was a high speed increase in ubuntu when multitasking (about 35 - 60% faster than XP).

2. I like oo writer very much, but it's just my opinion. I used it before I used Linux in the first place. I find the helpfiles much friendlier then MS office's. If you just don't like it you can still use MS Office 2003 using wine. It will install just like it was windows. It has some issues with outlook tough. I'm not sure how MS Office 2007 will do, but I think it will work for the most part. But check WineHQ AppDB to be sure.

3. I'm sure it's possible to install from as USB flash, altough I don't know how. You can probably find a how to on Ubuntu wiki tough.

4. As for games - Some of them (rare) do have a linux native version (I play Neverwinter Nights a lot), others will run perfectly on wine (eg. Warcraft 3 - I play that a lot too), others have minor glitches (eg. Civilization IV, where some textures don't display correctly, such as the eyes on some faction leaders), and others are not playable at all (I'm sure there are lots of examples - just not on any of my regular games).

I hope this helps you make a choice.
Remeber you can always dual boot if you want to make a swift learning curve. It's how I did about a year ago. I found myself using windows less and less, and when I got a new PC I bought it with no OS with it. I'm exclusively on linux today.

Edit: Oh, and BTW, you have 'Scribus' if you want to try an OSS alternative to Publisher.

panhandle
September 10th, 2008, 10:20 PM
Will it fulfill what I am trying to do?

You are the only person who can answer that question. Check out the WUBI section on this website: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=234

Just try it again and see if it has "progressed" to fulfill your expectations. Remember that in choosing to use Linux, you are supporting a community and an ideology, not just a corporation or company.

IMHO, I think Ubuntu will be a pleasant surprise and will meet some of your requirements, although your publishing and gaming needs might languish.

It won't hurt to try. If you don't want to commit to installing WUBI, then check out Linux Pro magazine. Also, it doesn't actually take 10 weeks for Canononical to get the CD to you--just a couple.

I have a question: Why are you considering Ubuntu if Windows so swimmingly meets your needs? More likely than not, Ubuntu will take some tweaking, and there might even be some heavy lifting involved, but if your motivation is strong enough, then perhaps a reassessment of your position and standards is worthwhile.

billgoldberg
September 10th, 2008, 10:24 PM
What I'm looking for in an O/S
I am currently considering Ubuntu, but before I go any further I must know whether it has advanced to the point where it is easy to use for a windows user (I don't want to learn code or juggle please, or read a manual, plug and play is good). To compete for me with Windows it must be as fast as Windows and as easy to use (It would be a big plus if it looked good. I know it's shallow but the beauty of it is important to daily use). I tried it years ago, and I couldn't even shut down without programming shut down or start up buttons. I used it maybe a week before I went back to windows (which IMO worked better for what I wanted to do with it.)

What I'm looking for in Word Processing:
Also the only serious word processor I found was open office writer, and to be honest that wasn't competition, (not to mention no publisher...). If I can easily use my current programs I will do that, but again it will take quite a bit to convince me that Ubuntu is worth the money to go re-license Publisher.


A note on Installation:
Also note I don't want to wait 10 weeks for CD's in the mail, and I don't have, nor do I need a burner (I'm not going to get a burner for something that I may not even use). I use flash drives as they are fast, friendly, and easy to use. I don't mind emulating or downloading something, as long as it isn't involved.

Recreation:
Finally, I am a bit of a gamer, what is the situation on that. Again I don't want to write a program to play WoW or my Age of Empires or any game for that matter. I don't mind something simple, so long as it is simple. Also not only WoW, but if "x" game or program were released I would want it to be compatible.

Stick with windows.

SunnyRabbiera
September 10th, 2008, 10:25 PM
These days Ubuntu can be just as easy to learn and control as windows, a lot of tools are out there to help transition like Medibuntu.
But for the true absolute beginner you may wat to try Linux Mint first, Mint has all the windows codecs and plugins you need pre installed so transition might be more simplified.
The Gaming bit might be your biggest obstacle, wine can do a lot but not every windows game can run in it.

paul101
September 10th, 2008, 10:28 PM
ubuntu is an os that you will have to learn... just like you did with windows. its not that bad, if you put a little bit of effort into it. and after all... we're all here to look after you ;)


if you find the going tough, you can just boot into windows and figure it out in your own time


ubuntu is an easy to use, easy to learn OS, you just gotta put in the effort to learn... it will be a challenge. yet interesting and satisfying


:)

TheMaxzilla
September 10th, 2008, 10:29 PM
Ubuntu might fulfill what you are looking for.

Ubuntu is very easy to operate, although you have to customize it a bit before the desktop looks good. Kubuntu is really ubuntu with KDE (Kubuntu Desktop environment). Kubuntu (http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4749/987df028ae4d50a800d4902ht2.jpg)/Ubuntu
(http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tr/contentPics/techrepublic_gnome_default_desktop.jpg)
As for the USB install, this (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick) has it all.

For the editator, Ubuntu and Kubuntu both come with open office.org media, and If you need microsoft fonts, you can run 'sudo apt-get install msttcorefonts' in the terminal.


Gaming, there are good linux games. Here's a broad list (http://techgage.com/print/top_10_free_linux_games).

How does this float for you then? What else are you considerating?

Curciat
September 10th, 2008, 10:31 PM
I'm trying WUBI but to be honest it is awfully slow It's almost downloaded 1 mb and it has 270 hrs to go...

---------------------
I don't mind learning an altogether new way of going about an o/s, but I do want it simple enough, so that my kids can use it and my folks when they visit. Macintosh for example is different from windows, but again there are a few things have kept me away from macs. (apple computers tend to cost more, also sure people claim they don't crash as much, but my windows has crashed maybe twice, and a solid 50%+ of the time macs I use have crashed. I could be lucky, or it could be worse hardware, that is very possible; but again price is the factor, I'm a bit of a cheapskate).

The reason I ask is because I've heard Ubuntu has actually competed with windows in respect to some drivers. i.e. you buy a camera, ubuntu is ready, windows needs to go download drivers. I was wondering if this was the case with everything or if cameras and camcorders are really the only things that do this.

Crafty Kisses
September 10th, 2008, 10:32 PM
Ubuntu should fit your needs, for the gaming WoW works perfectly. The more popular titles usually work with Ubuntu like WoW, Counter-Strike and the Steam Client works really good in Linux under Wine.

mlentink
September 10th, 2008, 10:35 PM
You might want to read the link in my sig.

I advise you to stick with windows.

Oo Writer is, honestly, function-for-function,at least on par with MS Word.
Scribus is actually a very, very good piece of publishing software. not as straight-forward as MS-Publisher, but far more capable (if you're willing to learn, which most windows users - in my experience- aren't)
Many other Linux packages are up to the job. But most not as fancy, hoopla filled as their windows counterparts. But without the bloat as well....

Your choice....

Uh...
Did I mention that almost all software in the Linux world is free?

panhandle
September 10th, 2008, 10:36 PM
I'm looking at an official Kubuntu Live CD right now. If you want to PM me your address, I'll mail it to you tomorrow morning during my daily trip to the post office.

Then you can dispense with WUBI and try it without obligation. Heck, it might even arrive before you finish downloading!

Cheers!

SunnyRabbiera
September 10th, 2008, 10:38 PM
I'm trying WUBI but to be honest it is awfully slow It's almost downloaded 1 mb and it has 270 hrs to go...

---------------------
I don't mind learning an altogether new way of going about an o/s, but I do want it simple enough, so that my kids can use it and my folks when they visit. Macintosh for example is different from windows, but again there are a few things have kept me away from macs. (apple computers tend to cost more, also sure people claim they don't crash as much, but my windows has crashed maybe twice, and a solid 50%+ of the time macs I use have crashed. I could be lucky, or it could be worse hardware, that is very possible; but again price is the factor, I'm a bit of a cheapskate).

The reason I ask is because I've heard Ubuntu has actually competed with windows in respect to some drivers. i.e. you buy a camera, ubuntu is ready, windows needs to go download drivers. I was wondering if this was the case with everything or if cameras and camcorders are really the only things that do this.

Well Ubuntu has great hardware detection these days, and its getting better by the minute it seems.
Ubuntu is one of the most progressive linux variants out there.
But really if you want to use something on the total beginners scale go with linux mint:
http://www.linuxmint.com/

Linux mint is based on ubuntu but has a lot of tools in it that are good for beginners .
Mintmenu works a lot like the start menu in windows XP, its default theme is probably more "beautiful" to people then the default ubuntu theme.
Mintupdate is probably its best tool though, as I actually think its better then the traditional ubuntu updater.

Curciat
September 10th, 2008, 10:39 PM
What's the main differences between Kubuntu and Unbuntu?

I would appreciate that.

SunnyRabbiera
September 10th, 2008, 10:42 PM
What's the main differences between Kubuntu and Unbuntu?

I would appreciate that.

Ubuntu uses gnome and Kubuntu uses KDE, Gnome and KDE are different Desktop environments but do the same basic job.
Here is more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_environment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME

panhandle
September 10th, 2008, 10:43 PM
They are the same.

Kubuntu = Ubuntu + KDE Graphical User Interface instead of Gnome.

I think I have an official Ubuntu with Gnome here as well.

It is often mentioned that KDE is good for Windows converts, though I never found Gnome any more difficult or easy to use. A matter of preference really.

SunnyRabbiera
September 10th, 2008, 10:49 PM
They are the same.

Kubuntu = Ubuntu + KDE Graphical User Interface instead of Gnome.

I think I have an official Ubuntu with Gnome here as well.

It is often mentioned that KDE is good for Windows converts, though I never found Gnome any more difficult or easy to use. A matter of preference really.

Indeed, Both KDE and gnome provide a easy to use interface that is good for the beginner.
These days I prefer gnome over KDE, but as you said its preference.

ad_267
September 10th, 2008, 10:58 PM
You can't "relicense" publisher and get a Linux version. Microsoft doesn't make Office for Linux, for obvious reasons. People are able to get Office working with Wine but it can be a bit of a pain. OpenOffice is pretty good and I'd say it's comparable to Office, but it doesn't sound like you're willing to learn to use a different set of applications.

Also if you're a gamer, there are some pretty good native Linux games but you're better off with Windows. I think if you have windows just stick with that.

I must say though that Ubuntu is really easy to use. You just need to be careful about what hardware you buy sometimes.

Sealbhach
September 10th, 2008, 11:00 PM
It depends a lot on your hardware. There are some problems with wireless networking due to a lack of drivers. Not the fault of Linux but it does mean that some people have to fiddle a bit.

I had to write the name of a module in a config file to get my sound working properly. My webcam doesn't work.

But if you don't have any problems like that, you can certainly do all you really need to do in Ubuntu graphically.


.

issih
September 10th, 2008, 11:08 PM
Hate to turn someone away, but I agree with those saying that for what you want you should just stick with windows.

To clarify why, you basically want to be able to use all your windows programs and play any games that are released. No linux based OS is going to do that for you, even with 'emulators' like wine, windows software can be tricky to get working, if it can be made to work at all.

Ubuntu is pretty easy to get the hang of, but you have to be willing to change the programs you use, and in some cases the way you do things, it is not windows, or a drop in windows replacement, nothing is (at least until react OS matures significantly).

For me the fact that you dont want to read a manual and expect plug and play (which ubuntu does have, but linux simply doesn't have the breadth of hardware support of windows) means that you should jsut steer well clear.

With linux unless you are willing to learn something new you will fail, and be just another user rapidly leaving negative comments about ubuntu for no reason other than your ignorance starting out.

Hope that helps

roquefilipe
September 10th, 2008, 11:28 PM
issih is correct, but still I say give Ubuntu a try, just keep in mind that is a different OS. It is not Windows.

If you do try and when a problem appears just come to the forums or IRC to try and solve it out, but remember this is a community.

In the end if you don't like just go back to windows, but make sure you know why you are going back. Some users have some bad experiences with ubuntu and they think that Ubuntu is not ready for desktop production.

Consider to checkout the testimonials section of the forum .

Also a quick note, the first thing I do in any new fresh install of ubuntu is to install ubuntu-restricted-packages. then Ubuntu is really ready to go.

Curciat
September 10th, 2008, 11:39 PM
I understand your concern, be assured I see no benefit to leaving negative responses. Perhaps a warning to users such as myself as to what to expect, but to be honest I have better things to do than troll. I am a capitalist. If something fails to work, I simply discard it, good things will succeed, bad things will fail. I understand that Linux is different and claims to be such, and of course I don't expect the level of support from a free company or set of individuals (though the general response from the community here has been an overall helpful and positive experience).

To be honest Firefox was interesting. The one major advantage was blocking advertisements, etc... As soon as IE 7 came out, I went back, not because I disliked Firefox, but because I preferred the spartan look of IE 7. I know I know, Firefox has skins... But it isn't a love of Microsoft, because I use Chrome now. If Firefox or IE7 comes out with something superior to chrome then I'll switch again.

SunnyRabbiera
September 10th, 2008, 11:43 PM
Well you can trim Firefox down to look "spartan" as its highly customizable, more so then IE

Sealbhach
September 10th, 2008, 11:45 PM
But it isn't a love of Microsoft, because I use Chrome now. If Firefox or IE7 comes out with something superior to chrome then I'll switch again.

Surely you should factor in security into your decison?


.

Cl0ud9
September 11th, 2008, 12:13 AM
If you have been driving a car your whole life, you can't just jump on a motorcycle and expect to know how to drive it correctly and safely. The same thing is true for switching from windows to any distribution of Linux. You are going to have to learn some things along the way although Ubuntu is probably the most friendly for people coming from Windows. As far as gaming goes, you may want to look into wine for playing windows games: http://www.winehq.org/

For a web browser you should try Opera if you don't like Firefox.

fballem
September 11th, 2008, 12:44 AM
You might want to use the K-Office suite in Kubuntu - K-Word is a frame-based word processor as opposed to MS-Word or OpenOffice Writer. That might get you closer to an MS-Publisher environment.

I am going to echo some comments from other posters. I have been a Windows user for many years (since Windows 3.0). I am expert on most of the MS-Office applications (Word, Excel, Access, Visio, Publisher). I'm not a gamer.

I switched to ubuntu (GNOME interface) and OpenOffice in mid-May. This is not Windows - it is different. If you are comfortable with Windows and want to do things in exactly the same way as Windows, then this is probably not for you. If you insist on running MS Applications (which are good, by the way), then you should probably continue to run them in Windows. If you are expecting full plug-and-play, then there will be some challenges in Linux, regardless of distribution. In ubuntu, the current problems seem to be around wireless networking.

That being said, if you bear in mind that this is not Windows, and are prepared for a bit of a learning curve, I think you will find ubuntu to be a most pleasant experience. I have never run in dual-boot mode, and I know that there are problems, so if you are prepared to be flexible, then follow the suggestions in various posts about migrating your e-mail (which you must prepare for while you are in Windows), save your data to an external drive (USB drive worked well for me), and take the leap.

What I have found is that the learning curve is relatively short - took me about 2 weeks of fairly concentrated effort. If I had a problem, I would ask on one of these forums and get very specific guidance on how to solve the problem. The guidance was quick, usually within a matter of hours, often within a matter of minutes, it was accurate, and it was complete.

I am still learning, but I am running GNOME (ubuntu), with OpenOffice, and using Evolution as my Outlook replacement. I have not found a Visio replacement - but that was not super critical for my needs. I also have not found a replacement for Enterprise Architect (from Sparx Systems) that I use for my Business Analysis work - but there are projects that are starting to build a suitable solution and I am looking forward to being a part of those projects.

At the office (on a corporate desktop), I still use Windows. At home, I use ubuntu.

Please recognise that ubuntu, kubuntu, and other linux distributions are not Windows. There are different ways of doing things, different programs, and new things to learn. The support has been amazing. If you want Windows, however, then you should probably stay with Windows.

In short, most of the software is open source (some of the drivers excepted), the software is free, the support is excellent, but there are differences. If you are prepared to open your mind, then it might be worth the leap. I am enjoying my experience.

Hope this helps,

Curciat
September 11th, 2008, 02:13 AM
Surely you should factor in security into your decison?


.

I personally disagree with you here, but that is neither here nor there. Suffice it to say, I have looked into the vulnerabilities and don't consider them a threat. In any case Chrome is open-source as well, currently I believe it's my best option (I visit Java heavy websites), and I think in the future Chrome will develop. I have Firefox installed as well as IE; I could take time to explain all the reasons I find it better, but I'm not here to jab at Firefox. :)

Thank you all for your time, I have a CD en route and time will tell whether or not Linux is the right fit.

starcannon
September 11th, 2008, 02:45 AM
What I'm looking for in an O/S
I am currently considering Ubuntu, but before I go any further I must know whether it has advanced to the point where it is easy to use for a windows user (I don't want to learn code or juggle please, or read a manual, plug and play is good). To compete for me with Windows it must be as fast as Windows and as easy to use (It would be a big plus if it looked good. I know it's shallow but the beauty of it is important to daily use). I tried it years ago, and I couldn't even shut down without programming shut down or start up buttons. I used it maybe a week before I went back to windows (which IMO worked better for what I wanted to do with it.)

I hear you loud and clear. Keep in mind Linux is Free as in Beer, and Free as in Speech; but not without its costs. If you are unable because of time restraints, or willingness to put out the effort to learn a new OS, then there is very little that can be done for you if your dissatisfied with Windows.


What I'm looking for in Word Processing:
Also the only serious word processor I found was open office writer, and to be honest that wasn't competition, (not to mention no publisher...). If I can easily use my current programs I will do that, but again it will take quite a bit to convince me that Ubuntu is worth the money to go re-license Publisher.

There is always Wine or better still its commercial version Crossover, this will allow you to tackle most tasks, in the event that a program MUST be run in a real windows environment, there is Virtual Box. The Microsoft Office Suite works fantastically in Crossover by the way. I don't use it much anymore, as I disagree with your opinion of Open Office, I haven't updated or even run my MS Office Suite in over a year, just don't ever need to. I have written all of my college level papers, spreadsheets, math papers, etc... etc... entirely in Open Office. Again having the time or willingness to learn new software is going to be a necessity anytime you decide to possibly move away from whatever you've been using, nothing can be done for that.



A note on Installation:
Also note I don't want to wait 10 weeks for CD's in the mail, and I don't have, nor do I need a burner (I'm not going to get a burner for something that I may not even use). I use flash drives as they are fast, friendly, and easy to use. I don't mind emulating or downloading something, as long as it isn't involved.

You can always buy a CD from Canonical, or even on Ebay if you need it sooner than later, and as pointed out by a previous poster there is a very good guide on making a bootable thumbdrive. Not owning a CD burner will not affect you. As for being "involved", well, I think anything that is new to you will always end up there, again, its a learning thing. Once you've done something once, its not as hard the second time.


Recreation:
Finally, I am a bit of a gamer, what is the situation on that. Again I don't want to write a program to play WoW or my Age of Empires or any game for that matter. I don't mind something simple, so long as it is simple. Also not only WoW, but if "x" game or program were released I would want it to be compatible.

There are as pointed out earlier a nice collection of games for Linux, even a few commercial titles; that said, it is a weak point, and is why I own a console (PS3... yeah I put Ubuntu on it as well lol). Anyway, my attitude on gaming was that I refused to let it determine my OS. I use Wine or Cedega for gaming, and if it won't run that way or natively, then I assume the game maker didn't want my money. Make a note that Virtual Box is not good for gaming.

All in all your biggest obstacle will be this:

advanced to the point where it is easy to use for a windows user
nope it hasn't, and generally can not; its not windows. It's Linux, yeah we can point and click, we can plug-n-play, but we do most of it differently, no matter how you slice it, your going to have to read a manual to learn a new operating system. Would be the same if I had used nothing but Linux my whole life and were suddenly confronted with Windows, I'd have to read and learn how to do things in the new environment, and it would be very unfair of me to ask Windows to behave like Linux.

GL however you decide to go.

Curciat
September 11th, 2008, 07:23 PM
Would be the same if I had used nothing but Linux my whole life and were suddenly confronted with Windows, I'd have to read and learn how to do things in the new environment, and it would be very unfair of me to ask Windows to behave like Linux.


This is in fact exactly my question. If people had been using Linux for all their lives and everyone used Linux, would there be people switching to Windows, and why. Again, learning curves aren't too difficult, I already know most key key combinations.

I honestly just want to know if Linux is developed enough for actual commercial use or if it is still just a theoretical social project, (I do know that in the case of IT networking, it is a very useful server o/s, but does this translate into a solid user o/s) :)

If it is just a social project, that isn't to say that it won't become useful to people in the future it just means it isn't quite there yet.)

bobnutfield
September 11th, 2008, 07:33 PM
Well, if Google, Ebay, Amazon.com and the United States military count, then I guess you could say Linux is a useful os for deploying as a server. Apache is the predominate server app on the entire net, and security in Linux versus Windows is a no contest.

Theoretical social project? please....

issih
September 11th, 2008, 07:58 PM
Is linux "ready for the desktop?" its a dumb question because it doesn't actually ask anything specific and leaves far too much to the preference of the individual.

Can you use Linux as your desktop OS? yes of course you can, its nice, stable, fast, customisable, pretty, its everything you could ever want. If you had never used a pc, and someone gave you linux then you'd be quite happy, and there'd be no real need to switch. There are millions of people who use linux as their desktop OS and are quite happy, many of those choose to do so instead of using windows, it IS ready. But, and its a biggy, you do have to accept that it isn't going to be windows and that you will have to do some work to find the best programs to replace your windows ones, and you will have to do that without being able to go to your neighbour and ask him, you'll have to come here instead.

But that's not your situation and it is not the situation of the vast majority who claim linux is unfriendly and difficult. You know the windows way, and you know the windows programs that let you achieve what you want, so you will find using linux much harder. this is not linux's fault nor is it because linux is actually hard to use..its just unfamiliar and awkward, imagine a car with the pedal layout reversed, just as easy, and if you learnt that way it would never be an issue, but for anyone used to the way things are it would be a nightmare.

I still don't think you sound like a promising candidate for enjoying ubuntu, but by all means try it, just do your research before installing anything, or you could end up wiping all your data. I'd suggest you use wubi if at all possible as then you can try out the system without much risk of damaging your windows partitions.

Curciat
September 11th, 2008, 08:02 PM
@Bob

What are you talking about?

If you read my post, it's a question, not a statement. I also replied, that yes, of course, there is this use over here, but let's consider the aspect of usefulness in this department. So far I've gotten two responses:

1) You're going to hate Linux (most of these I disregard as wasting my time; there was one gentlemen who posted a link as to why, and kudos to him.)
2) It takes a different kind of person, it takes an intelligent person to use Linux. As if to imply that others who do not use Linux lack the mental capacity to use it.

The second is the better of the two, but it still doesn't straightly answer the problem, which is: Is the world-user (I being one representative, pick any other of the 6-7 billion as another) ready for Linux? Anyone with the most simple understanding of history knows that Ideas revolutionize, it's a different concept, but overall will usually win the field regardless of "how different" it appears to be. You can create categories and distinguish them all you like, but either one is better or it isn't.

ronnielsen1
September 11th, 2008, 08:12 PM
Would be the same if I had used nothing but Linux my whole life and were suddenly confronted with Windows,

What an awful awful scenario. Yuck!

Linux is a wonderful operating system. I switched in 2004 and it wasn't nearly as friendly as it is now. It's progressed alot. It is a learning curve to adapt to the different ways of doing things. It's worth it if you do learn. Security and knowing where everything is - just 2 things that I like.
Graphics will take the wow out of vista

ikt
September 11th, 2008, 08:21 PM
1) You're going to hate Linux (most of these I disregard as wasting my time; there was one gentlemen who posted a link as to why, and kudos to him.)

Why? We're just saving you time.

Honestly OS X seams like it was almost built to your standard:

A) Don't want to learn anything
B) Want everything to work instantly
C) Looks great
D) Can play wow on it, or dual boot into windows if you want any microsoft games.

Based on this I think OS X is the OS for you.

crazypenguin2008
September 11th, 2008, 08:21 PM
ive been using linux for 3 years now and i love it. much more secure,packed with user friendly features.

altho i did have a little trouble with the first release of hardy. it was buggy but now it seems to be working great.

linux isant for everyone but for those that have taken the time to learn it its great....

i love it and i hate hate hate having to use a pc that has windows on it now..im lost lol

bobnutfield
September 11th, 2008, 08:23 PM
OK, reading your posts, one can only conlcude that you are trying to suggest Window's domination of the world's desktop market and Linux's relatively small penetration makes Linux suspect as a viable alternative to Windows and that Linux users are somehow a "club", members of a "social project."

The fact is, Linux was a school project for its creator (Linus Torvolds), but after inviting the world's top coders to participate in its development, it has quickly gone from a "project" to literally the BEST option for any desktop, laptop and probably most devices using embedded systems. There are very clear reasons why Windows STILL dominates the home OS market, but none of them have to do with Windows being the superior OS. It is quite simply that Gates, et al, were at the right place at the right time in 1981, and IBM made one of the biggest snafu's in business history by not copyrighting the OS for its new home computer products.

Microsoft is losing its stanglehold, and they know it.

But, all in all, it comes down to the fact that many, including (by the questions you ask and the comments you make), I believe, yourself, question Linux's viability simply because it is "not like Windows." Linux, I do not believe, will ever attempt to be a "point and click" OS only, and nor should they. The power of Linux is in its openness and it configurability. These are qualities that Windows has never had and will most likely be the reason for their eventual demise as the dominent desktop OS.

crazypenguin2008
September 11th, 2008, 08:43 PM
well said bob. and linux gets better and better with every release. i look for linux to get more and more main stream in the upcomming years. :KS

archer6
September 11th, 2008, 09:01 PM
I don't want to wait 10 weeks for CD's in the mail, and I don't have, nor do I need a burner
Here's the perfect solution for you. For a modest $1.95 you can buy a Ubuntu Linux (http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi/products/linux/ubuntu/inst_5x.html) 8.04.1 (latest version) Live CD. A couple of bucks shipping and it's on your door step in just a few days. I placed my order and received it in four days. I did the complete installation in under an hour, with everything working perfectly after the install was complete. Now having a few months of Ubuntu Linux experience, I could not be happier.

mkvnmtr
September 11th, 2008, 10:03 PM
I don't think anyone should switch to Ubuntu. They should add Ubuntu to their computer. Spend a week, a month, or a year getting used to it and find out if it will do what you want. Then you have two systems that you know and can use. If an update for either one puts it on the blink just switch. If there is a game or program you like on the other system just switch. It only takes the time to get up and get a cup of coffee to be in the other system. Seems simple to me but I am not a Windows user. Just Mac and Ubuntu.

SunnyRabbiera
September 11th, 2008, 10:06 PM
I don't think anyone should switch to Ubuntu. They should add Ubuntu to their computer. Spend a week, a month, or a year getting used to it and find out if it will do what you want. Then you have two systems that you know and can use. If an update for either one puts it on the blink just switch. If there is a game or program you like on the other system just switch. It only takes the time to get up and get a cup of coffee to be in the other system. Seems simple to me but I am not a Windows user. Just Mac and Ubuntu.

You dont sound that confident in ubuntu...
Hey i made the switch and never looked back.

graben3
September 11th, 2008, 11:05 PM
I am an ex Windows user and a web designer

Ive been using Ubuntu for a year now and I find ubuntu more productive than windows for many things. I finally dropped my xp partition completely after 8 months using ubuntu. Everything goes well and works easily once you know how to do it.

The only caveat is no Flash & no Illustrator for linux (there is still Inkscape... but.. to be honest.. I find it difficult to use once you're used to adobe software.

The only other big problem I can see with ubuntu is games. Most are for windows...and wont run as fast as in windows (this is obvious).

Other than that, Ubuntu is the best OS i've worked on and is pretty mush as user friendly and easy to use as windows.

starcannon
September 11th, 2008, 11:12 PM
My Wife and I use Linux for everything(we prefer Ubuntu), business, college, web dev, programming classes. Yeah its ready for commercial use. We haven't run Windows in over 5 years. I think that should answer the question to satisfaction.

By the by, my wife is a Psychology major, who will be graduating with a double major and a minor in the discipline next spring or summer depending on how classes stack up for her. She has used Linux for every one of her papers, for her statistical data collection and analysis, for everything. If it is capable of spitting out acceptable results at her level of the game, I can't imagine why it would not meet most other standards as well.

As for why anyone would switch from Linux to Windows, I only stated that as a hypothetical situation to illustrate a point. I have no desire or intention of switching to Windows, I am very happy with my stable, professional, and 100% uptime Linux.

GL and have fun.


This is in fact exactly my question. If people had been using Linux for all their lives and everyone used Linux, would there be people switching to Windows, and why. Again, learning curves aren't too difficult, I already know most key key combinations.

I honestly just want to know if Linux is developed enough for actual commercial use or if it is still just a theoretical social project, (I do know that in the case of IT networking, it is a very useful server o/s, but does this translate into a solid user o/s) :)

If it is just a social project, that isn't to say that it won't become useful to people in the future it just means it isn't quite there yet.)

Curciat
September 12th, 2008, 12:41 AM
I appreciate all the replies.

@ Bob

I see what your driving at, my intention was not to diminish the impact or insult the origins of Ubuntu, and from a few posts, it seems like it _may_ be ready for commercial use, as apparently there are a few people who use it, not as a specialty O/S or as a Novelty O/S but as a functional day-to-day O/S. I hope that's clear. I'm no web designer, I'm not even a network administrator. I'm just a run of the mill joe shmoe user who has heard about linux, tried it in the past (about a decade ago), and didn't quite find it ready for use. I was looking for insights and possibly a way to secure a good copy, both of which I believe have been solved.

Kinetic_lord
September 12th, 2008, 12:56 AM
It is the best OS you can get, it's good and free (Windows is stupid and non-free). What would be the advantages? A very very fast OS, virus-free (you don't need any anti virus to slow down you're computer because there are no viruses for Linux), no errors (well... if you install some Microsoft software there might be), with a lot of good open-source applications.

It is easy to learn, and if you have a problem just post in the forum.

You get free alternatives to a lot of programs:GIMP instead of Photoshop (much easier to learn), CD Burner instead of Nero (High-speed, no burning CD-destroying errors), Amarok music player instead of winamp (well... you can install winamp if you want), Pidgin as an instant messenger (recognises every protocol, Gtalk,Yahoo,MSN...), OpenOffice instead of Word (much much better...), and lot others...

Any other programs designed for windows can be easily accessed using Wine Windows Emulator, so that computer games might work.

Plus, enjoy the desktop effects that are much more fun than the "cool" Vista skin.

And not to mention the very good security system.

Get Ubuntu, there is no reason to stick to Windows...

mikewhatever
September 12th, 2008, 01:12 AM
You dont sound that confident in ubuntu...
Hey i made the switch and never looked back.

Quite honestly, I thought you were a PClinux user. :confused: Must have been wrong all the while.

ronnielsen1
September 12th, 2008, 04:31 AM
I don't think anyone should switch to Ubuntu. They should add Ubuntu to their computer. Spend a week, a month, or a year getting used to it and find out if it will do what you want. Then you have two systems that you know and can use. If an update for either one puts it on the blink just switch. If there is a game or program you like on the other system just switch. It only takes the time to get up and get a cup of coffee to be in the other system. Seems simple to me but I am not a Windows user. Just Mac and Ubuntu.

Only experience I have with a mac is at the university library and it's frustrating (because I don't lmow what to do)
I don't think it will take ANYONE a YEAR to realize what OS they want to use. I deleted Windows because it was taking up valuable space on my 40 G hard drive (at that time)

issih
September 12th, 2008, 12:13 PM
It is not a novelty or speciality anything, linux is used by millions of people, it is used in companies, it is used (extensively) in scientific research, it is a mature and deeply impressive collection of software.

It is potentially useful for what you term "commercial" use but I have no idea what you mean by that. It is perfrectly usable and impressive desktop OS, provided you are willing to put the effort in to get past the differences, and accept that you are not in MS's walled garden anymore.

Get a CD, give it a whirl and make your own mind up, that is the only thing you can do that will really tell you anything more now.

I reiterate the suggestion to use Wubi rather than doing a full install as it will prevent you from doing anything catastrophic to your computer. Wubi allows you to install (and remove) ubuntu from within windows, I suggest you use it unless you are comfortable with partition tables and have plentiful backups.

Hope that helps

archer6
September 12th, 2008, 07:41 PM
My Wife and I use Linux for everything(we prefer Ubuntu), business, college, web dev, programming classes. Yeah its ready for commercial use. We haven't run Windows in over 5 years. I think that should answer the question to satisfaction.

By the by, my wife is a Psychology major, who will be graduating with a double major and a minor in the discipline next spring or summer depending on how classes stack up for her. She has used Linux for every one of her papers, for her statistical data collection and analysis, for everything. If it is capable of spitting out acceptable results at her level of the game, I can't imagine why it would not meet most other standards as well.

As for why anyone would switch from Linux to Windows, I only stated that as a hypothetical situation to illustrate a point. I have no desire or intention of switching to Windows, I am very happy with my stable, professional, and 100% uptime Linux.

GL and have fun.

Well said! I concur.
To which I would ad, my conservative outlook was the reason I put a second hard drive in my ThinkPad dedicated to Ubuntu and to isolate it completely from WinXP Pro as I'm a 3D design aerospace engineer. Therefore with my ThinkPad being mission critical, I had the "safety net" I desired as I ventured into Linux Land. That said I now find that drive with XP sitting there nearly unused. At this point I have just two XP apps, to be replaced by Linux, it will not be much longer when I too will be operating with 100% Ubuntu.

Cheers!

SunnyRabbiera
September 12th, 2008, 08:01 PM
Quite honestly, I thought you were a PClinux user. :confused: Must have been wrong all the while.

at one time yes, but i also like to experiment.


My intention was not to diminish the impact or insult the origins of Ubuntu, and from a few posts, it seems like it _may_ be ready for commercial use, as apparently there are a few people who use it, not as a specialty O/S or as a Novelty O/S but as a functional day-to-day O/S. I hope that's clear. I'm no web designer, I'm not even a network administrator. I'm just a run of the mill joe shmoe user who has heard about linux, tried it in the past (about a decade ago), and didn't quite find it ready for use. I was looking for insights and possibly a way to secure a good copy, both of which I believe have been solved.

Actually Ubuhntu is more then ready for commercial use, if you are talking about servers Linux is on top of its game there.
For desktop readiness, its a matter of perspective.
For me I feel Ubuntu and most other linux distros are actually more "desktop ready" then windows is, and in the long run better for the home user.
Trust me if you used Linux 10 years ago, its much different now.
Linux as a desktop OS has made more progress to me in 4 years then 10 years I spent under windows.
I have used computers in general since the early 90's, I have used DOS, windows 95, 98, 2000, ME, XP and linux during that time.
When I first started to use computers regularly in 1998 Windows 98 just came out and I remember having so much trouble using it at school.
At home I got my first computer in early 2000, went through windows 95 and 98 then to XP.
I even used windows 2000 for some time as well.
And to be honest aside from the flash not much has changed between windows 95 and XP, except XP is based on NT but superficially its the same OS.
Linux on the other hand I have used since 2004, between then and now Linux has made so many leaps I barely recognize it from when I first started.
When I was a first timer Linux had just started getting into more of a GUI setting, but still relied on terminals and much configuration.
But by now I barely use the terminal and Linux seems to be solid as a rock compared to all the re installs I did under windows.

k33bz
September 12th, 2008, 08:13 PM
If you ask me, Linux is a great OS, better than MAcs or Windoze, but, just like anything else, there is a learning curve. If you are not willing to go with the learning curve, and except Linux is a diff OS, and not like WIndoze, then you are better off staying with Windoze.

t0p
September 12th, 2008, 08:39 PM
What I'm looking for in an O/S
I am currently considering Ubuntu, but before I go any further I must know whether it has advanced to the point where it is easy to use for a windows user (I don't want to learn code or juggle please, or read a manual, plug and play is good).

You want to use a new os, but you don't want to have to learn a new os.

Good luck.

starcannon
September 13th, 2008, 12:23 AM
Well said! I concur.
To which I would ad, my conservative outlook was the reason I put a second hard drive in my ThinkPad dedicated to Ubuntu and to isolate it completely from WinXP Pro as I'm a 3D design aerospace engineer. Therefore with my ThinkPad being mission critical, I had the "safety net" I desired as I ventured into Linux Land. That said I now find that drive with XP sitting there nearly unused. At this point I have just two XP apps, to be replaced by Linux, it will not be much longer when I too will be operating with 100% Ubuntu.

Cheers!

Curiosity.... which 2 apps?

archer6
September 15th, 2008, 07:02 PM
Curiosity.... which 2 apps?
I'm working under an NDA/TS Security Clearance/NASA/NODLA/NONCMPT/NSA agreement. Therefore I cannot share that.

archer6
September 15th, 2008, 07:11 PM
You want to use a new os, but you don't want to have to learn a new os.
How very true. Unfortunately this sums up the approach that far too many people take when approaching technology in general. Whether it is a new OS, migrating from a plain cell phone to a smart phone, or whatever. It never ceases to amaze me how some people expect to try something new, without being willing to do their part to learn it.

Cheers

egalvan
September 15th, 2008, 07:50 PM
You want to use a new os, but you don't want to have to learn a new os.

Good luck.

+1

And it never ceases to amaze me how many people will forget the time and effort it took them to learn Windows....

Or even how long ti took them to learn how to turn on (or off) that "new-fanlged" computer in the first place...

the phrase:

"Go to the START button to STOP"

made me a LOT of money supporting Win95 users \\:D/

:popcorn:

archer6
September 15th, 2008, 07:53 PM
And it never ceases to amaze me how many people will forget the time and effort it took them to learn Windows....

Kudos... very well said...:)

Therion
September 15th, 2008, 08:21 PM
You want to use a new os, but you don't want to have to learn a new os.

Good luck.
Beautiful.




<wipes away a tear>