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uberdonkey5
September 9th, 2008, 12:51 PM
I love ubuntu (indeed, its linux I love, but ubuntu is my fav. distro) and I was introduced by word of mouth (not advertising) by a friend, who helped me install it and fix some things. Indeed, it was like becoming part of a community, almost a secret society, because no one else knew what we were talking about.

Now, I love the way ubuntu is global. However, I am wondering if I want the community to actually grow? Imagine ubuntu forums? There would be so many posts, and it would be harder to control rogue elements (like in any community which gets larger). I definately feel that ubuntu will experience an exponential growth soon. Windows Vista was a big mistake. People frequently have XP, ubuntu dual boot now. The Eee pc has introduced many people, including children, to the linux environment. Apart from ease of installation, ubuntu is definately competitive with windows.

However, what will happen when 50% of computer users use ubuntu? Will we have viruses? Will there be fake repositories, will posts be littered with hidden 'rm' commands?

I was going to write a thread calling for people to:

1. make a concerted effort to pressure computer suppliers to have ubuntu pre-install versions
2. get canonical to develop a bug free installation process which adapts to the majority of old and new computers
(the two main things I believe prevent new users of ubuntu)

However, now I'm thinking. Maybe we should stay this size. Any thoughts?

Muflon
September 9th, 2008, 01:00 PM
For my part I think bigger is better. If more people were to use Linux then the hardware and software manufacturers would be more inclined to ensure that their products were Linux compatible out of the box and provided appropriate drivers etc.

Muflon

Sealbhach
September 9th, 2008, 01:01 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean.

But the concept of free and open source is bound to make the online world a better place, right?


.

Swarms
September 9th, 2008, 01:14 PM
Maybe the structures of today, will not be sufficient of supporting let's say 30 million users. But if there comes a need, we alter it to fit our needs.

You talk of support, if the operating system evolves and gets more userfriendly, support will be less required. Documentation will be more effective so you will make use of that instead of a forum.

This place would evolve in a community about discussing the modern world and other stuff related to Ubuntu.

Yes we want everyone to consider Ubuntu when they are picking an operating system.

SunnyRabbiera
September 9th, 2008, 01:17 PM
Well I think that any open source OS if made popular will get its share of ill intent coders but the appeal isnt as much there as say hacking into windows that by nature is asking to be hacked (enabling root access by default, having badly coded software, etc)

billgoldberg
September 9th, 2008, 01:29 PM
Every year is the year of the linux desktop, yet every year it doesn't happen.

Less than 1% of the desktop users now are using Linux and I don't see that figure expanding much the next few years.

--

If Ubuntu is what people need, by all means mention Ubuntu to them as an alternative. But don't sugar coat the OS as some do.

Ubuntu isn't the right choice for a lot of people also.

fatality_uk
September 9th, 2008, 01:42 PM
Every year is the year of the linux desktop, yet every year it doesn't happen.

Less than 1% of the desktop users now are using Linux and I don't see that figure expanding much the next few years.

--

If Ubuntu is what people need, by all means mention Ubuntu to them as an alternative. But don't sugar coat the OS as some do.

Ubuntu isn't the right choice for a lot of people also.

I don't believe those figures. It's hard to have any authoritative figures for Linux use.

This past year could well be considered a baby "year of the linux desktop" Think about ALL the netbooks sold over the last 12-18 months!

I have just come back from uk high street store PC World and they have a stand proudly "proclaiming" Linux PC's!!

Consider the same time 2 years ago! If you asked, the answer would be "Linux what?"

Linux is out there are making small steps in the right direction. As for the popularity of Ubuntu/Linux, bring it on I say.

Canis familiaris
September 9th, 2008, 01:43 PM
No I have given up.

SuperSonic4
September 9th, 2008, 01:45 PM
We want to give a balanced and accurate review of ubuntu based upon it's own merits and not as a comparison to windows or mac.

Chessmaster
September 9th, 2008, 01:50 PM
but the concept of free and open source is bound to make the online world a better place, right?

.

+1

Circus-Killer
September 9th, 2008, 01:55 PM
well, when windows dies down and loses market share, i see the market splitting up in all different directions. linux/unix/mac will all collectively feel a big growth in market-share.

by the time windows dies out, the majority will feel the pain of leaving such a closed OS and the problems accociated with it. they will remember that in order to make conversion from one system to another successful, open standards and software is the only way to go.

dirtylobster
September 9th, 2008, 05:40 PM
Every year is the year of the linux desktop, yet every year it doesn't happen.

Less than 1% of the desktop users now are using Linux and I don't see that figure expanding much the next few years.

I saw a statistic the other day about this. IIRC something like 3.8% of web surfers today use Linux, 4.2% uses Mac (I don't remember the exact figures).

EDIT: Found the link: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

clanky
September 9th, 2008, 06:22 PM
The growth of Linux / Ubuntu would bring a lot of benefits in terms of hardware and software support, if Linux had a market share of even 10% then more hardware manufacturers would make sure their hardware stuff worked in Linux and might even be persuaded to make decent open source drivers for their stuff which could be included as standard with the OS. And software developers would see the benefits in developing Linux versions of their applications.

The problem is that if Linux is to really take off in the desktop market then these things need to be sorted first.

god0fgod
September 9th, 2008, 06:24 PM
This is a better scource for OS web statistics:

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=8

Windows - 90.66%
Mac - 7.86%
Linux - 0.93%

Others mostly include devices such as the iphone and PS3.

ronnielsen1
September 9th, 2008, 06:31 PM
Wouldn't a linux user using Agent Switcher trigger false positives?

aysiu
September 9th, 2008, 06:35 PM
This question is silly.

If Ubuntu were 50% of the consumer market, things would be completely different.

You wouldn't just scale what already exists.

For example, would our forums be flooded with support and trolls to the point where it is inoperable? Of course not. Look at Windows. Is the Windows forum unmanageable? No, for two reasons: 1. There are multiple Windows support forums and, more importantly 2. Most Windows users don't use support forums for help. If 50% or more of the population is using the same operating system you are, you just ask your friend, relative, or professional in-person support person for help. It's only if you are that support person for someone else that you go online for help.

Would there be viruses and whatnot? Sure. Would we early adopters have to worry about that? No. We'd actually be running Ubuntu as it's intended - with a proper permissions system in place. What the Asus Eee PC has shown me is that in the future, if Linux becomes more popular, we might see more and more distros running as root all the time or using sudo without password authentication.

Ubuntu itself has more or less good (not amazing) security defaults, but maybe it won't be vanilla Ubuntu that becomes popular. Maybe it'd be a Ubuntu-based derivative that's heavily DRM-laden and has an infinite (instead of 15-minute) sudo timeout.

You just can't predict the future. You deal with things as they come and enjoy things as they are in the present. With new circumstances come new problems, yes, but also new solutions.

I don't really see the point of worrying about us reaching 50% marketshare and having new problems. We'll always have problems. We'll always have benefits as well.

billgoldberg
September 9th, 2008, 06:37 PM
I don't believe those figures. It's hard to have any authoritative figures for Linux use.

This past year could well be considered a baby "year of the linux desktop" Think about ALL the netbooks sold over the last 12-18 months!

I have just come back from uk high street store PC World and they have a stand proudly "proclaiming" Linux PC's!!

Consider the same time 2 years ago! If you asked, the answer would be "Linux what?"

Linux is out there are making small steps in the right direction. As for the popularity of Ubuntu/Linux, bring it on I say.


Mabye the figures aren't 100% correct (the last time I read numbers, linux market share was 0.67%) but it won't be much more.

The netbook thing is highly hyped (mostly amongst the internet savvy crowd), most people still don't have a clue what linux is, or a netbook for that matter.

uberdonkey5
September 9th, 2008, 06:37 PM
This is a better scource for OS web statistics:

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=8

Windows - 90.66%
Mac - 7.86%
Linux - 0.93%

Others mostly include devices such as the iphone and PS3.

Wow, its so low. I am amazed. Maybe we work in linux circles (about 20% of the people I knew at uni used ubuntu, mostly as dual boot). I do think the situation for ubuntu and windows is different now because many people prefer XP to vista (thus people are saying no to recent microsoft developments) whereas ubuntu is catching up with windows in terms of useability.

I agree that linux isn't right for everyone, but it could be. Really windows would offer little benefit over ubuntu even for those that don't want to use the terminal, if only it was easy to install.

The Eee PC is a good example of how to market linux though. If it is pre-installed and cheaper for the same types of packages, who would not choose Linux? Ubuntu is so user friendly for windows converts and so well supported. Only thing holding it back seems to be preinstallation options, and installation problems when people choose to use it. Maybe above post is correct though. I do forget about the millions of OAPs that use computers, and other people who are unlikely to mix with computer scientists.

Well, lets see.. my guess is a 10% market share by 2010, but maybe I am being optomistic :D

billgoldberg
September 9th, 2008, 06:39 PM
I saw a statistic the other day about this. IIRC something like 3.8% of web surfers today use Linux, 4.2% uses Mac (I don't remember the exact figures).

EDIT: Found the link: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

Browses and OS's are a different thing.

And then it's the matter of how representative those numbers are.

clanky
September 9th, 2008, 06:41 PM
For example, would our forums be flooded with support and trolls to the point where it is inoperable? Of course not. Look at Windows. Is the Windows forum unmanageable? No, for two reasons: 1. There are multiple Windows support forums and, more importantly 2. Most Windows users don't use support forums for help. If 50% or more of the population is using the same operating system you are, you just ask your friend, relative, or professional in-person support person for help. It's only if you are that support person for someone else that you go online for help.

The other issue is that Linux will not become popular until support forums are less necessary, so if Linux ever has a 50% market share then the chances are that for the majority of people they will simply switch on their PC and everything will work so forums like this will be used more for people who want to do more than get their wireless internet, 3D graphics, sound, etc. working.

anotherdisciple
September 9th, 2008, 06:49 PM
HAHA... I had a similar question a while back....

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=809677

god0fgod
September 9th, 2008, 07:03 PM
Wow, its so low. I am amazed. Maybe we work in linux circles (about 20% of the people I knew at uni used ubuntu, mostly as dual boot). I do think the situation for ubuntu and windows is different now because many people prefer XP to vista (thus people are saying no to recent microsoft developments) whereas ubuntu is catching up with windows in terms of useability.

I agree that linux isn't right for everyone, but it could be. Really windows would offer little benefit over ubuntu even for those that don't want to use the terminal, if only it was easy to install.

The Eee PC is a good example of how to market linux though. If it is pre-installed and cheaper for the same types of packages, who would not choose Linux? Ubuntu is so user friendly for windows converts and so well supported. Only thing holding it back seems to be preinstallation options, and installation problems when people choose to use it. Maybe above post is correct though. I do forget about the millions of OAPs that use computers, and other people who are unlikely to mix with computer scientists.

Well, lets see.. my guess is a 10% market share by 2010, but maybe I am being optomistic :D

Those aren't the actual figures but web statistics that give you some idea. And a nearly all the people that don't have an internet connection use Windows so that would probably push up the windows share. I mean this because other OS's promote internet use or I'd assume so.

And that is very optimistic.

I've managed to get 2 other people to install and stick with ubuntu and I have another two pending. I failed with 1 (There may be hope yet). But lets say I did get 4 people to switch to Linux and every Linux user did the same. We would have 5 times as many linux users with about 4.7% of the market share. If the new users did the same, Linux would have about 18.6% of the share. Another time and Linux will have the largest share of 75.2%.

That may be wrong but it does suggest we can improve the Linux market share by getting friends and family to convert. In reality it becomes flawed with people who simply wont switch but if they see rising popularity, they might switch also.

We should aim this at Windows users.

aysiu
September 9th, 2008, 07:04 PM
The other issue is that Linux will not become popular until support forums are less necessary, so if Linux ever has a 50% market share then the chances are that for the majority of people they will simply switch on their PC and everything will work so forums like this will be used more for people who want to do more than get their wireless internet, 3D graphics, sound, etc. working.
Not to mention that there would be fewer support issues per person, as Ubuntu would likely be preinstalled and preconfigured by OEMs. More than half the issues here are from people having problems burning .iso files, booting from the BIOS, dealing with video card and sound card issues, etc.

david_lynch
September 9th, 2008, 07:05 PM
Too late it's already getting popular and it's out of our hands now.

BTW, with all due respect to the naysayers, 1993 was the year of my linux desktop - and every year since then, it just keeps getting better.

god0fgod
September 9th, 2008, 07:07 PM
I will make an on-topic post this time.

With increased interest I'm sure more resources would be available. Major companies might want to give a hand. There is already good support.

days_of_ruin
September 9th, 2008, 08:07 PM
I don't believe those figures. It's hard to have any authoritative figures for Linux use.

This past year could well be considered a baby "year of the linux desktop" Think about ALL the netbooks sold over the last 12-18 months!

I have just come back from uk high street store PC World and they have a stand proudly "proclaiming" Linux PC's!!

Consider the same time 2 years ago! If you asked, the answer would be "Linux what?"

Linux is out there are making small steps in the right direction. As for the popularity of Ubuntu/Linux, bring it on I say.

+1.Thanks to Asus and other netbook makers linux is gaining popularity.
And I think that the 1% figure is off considering that I have found other
people using linux.

radical3
September 9th, 2008, 09:40 PM
linux will never have more than a few % of desktop share at best,
for get all the hardware, software and fud problems. Linux wont make it for a few reasons.

downstream dont talk to upstream, this is apparent everytime a major distro goes through a big update.

too many dependencies, when downloading a windows program you only get one file, and computer users are used to this, linux doesent work that way, thats why the package managers are there to cloak the whole dependancie dance.

microsoft takes care of other companies so that other companies take care of microsoft, Linux does not take care of companies enough, and even if every linux user/developer woke up one day and realized that companies are the key to marketshare, they still wouldnt have as many resources as microsoft to achieve good enterprise structure.

the company theory is very apparent in the fact that linux has only gained what land it has gained due to companies such as dell contibuting heavily to the linux's printing, and pre-loading, asus for ...well you already know, and even novell the "devil" are working hard to make sure linux users will be able to interact well will MS's silverlight, by introducing moonlight (http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight), despite the fact that linux users have a clear dislike for them as a company (http://boycottnovell.com/)

the GNU GPL squeezes companies by the tarballs, and i dont understand how linux users keep saying MS want you to do things their way, despite the fact that the GPL says the same thing,its goes something like
"use our code and your program has to be opensource"
compare that to the bsd licence
"do what you want just gimme the credit"

there is too much division, everyone is doing their own thing , its not so much "we can" its more, "i can" this is why there are 349+ distros most of which are incompatible.

All bsd's are compatible and they have a structure of which they work by so they dont end up with broken systems after updates. Most of the most frequently visited sites on the net run bsd, apple built osx from bsd, and their userbase hasnt stopped skyrocketing.

forget about other comapies this.... , and microsoft that ..., and hardware companies are this..., and pre-loading that. because non of those things matter if the operating system itself is incomplete.

take a hard look at vista, just the same a linux users, early vista users had problems with simple things. DESPITE the fact that vista came preloaded, DESPITE the fact that numerous hardware companies had vista drivers before vista even came out. Vista was horribly incomplete and this was vividly apparent due to the ammount people tying to use it(its userbase size).
What did microsoft do? blame hardware companies? blame OEM's? blame 3rd party software developers?
or blame themselves and fix their own problems with a service pack which has rendered vista useful now.
with linux there is always someone else to blame apart from linux itself. this cycle will continue until newer technology appears which linux will not be able to support due to copyrights. After that linux will simply be relief for companies who dont wanna spend any money on server software, or nostalgia for hobbyists.

this is the sad, saaaaaad, truth that NOBODY wants to hear.

scouser73
September 9th, 2008, 09:54 PM
I think it's important that Ubuntu grows and becomes more aware to PC buyers/people wanting a change from their current distro. The main thing with Ubuntu in my opinion is that the forum is one excellent place to learn from. I know that other disros have their version of forums, but I've never seen one quite like Ubuntu forum where people aren't snobby that they can't or won't help a person in need.

Yes, Ubuntu needs to go forward and it's only right that it should if we want people to know that Linux isn't just a geeks operating system of choice.

why should we have a distro that people hardly know about that not only works perfectly but it can hold it's own in it's rightful place. We have office suites that more than compare to those being sold in the shops, security as there are no known Linux viruses "in the wild".

People need to know that there are other options available to them and I personally think we are more than capable of giving the main operators a really good run for their money.

I don't think Ubuntu could hold itself back from the marketplace after all, the backlash on distros such as Vista should mean that people don't go back to XP, they should be made aware of the choices.

david_lynch
September 9th, 2008, 11:07 PM
linux will never have more than a few % of desktop share at best this is the sad, saaaaaad, truth that NOBODY wants to hear.
I agree that it's sad, but it's far from the truth. :lolflag:
As for nobody wanting to hear it, on the contrary, all the anti-linux nuts love to hear it. The question is, why do they hang out on linux forums? ):P

uberdonkey5
September 9th, 2008, 11:41 PM
...too many dependencies, when downloading a windows program you only get one file, and computer users are used to this, linux doesent work that way, thats why the package managers are there to cloak the whole dependancie dance.
...its goes something like
"use our code and your program has to be opensource"
compare that to the bsd licence
"do what you want just gimme the credit"

there is too much division, everyone is doing their own thing , its not so much "we can" its more, "i can" this is why there are 349+ distros most of which are incompatible.
...
with linux there is always someone else to blame apart from linux itself. this cycle will continue until newer technology appears which linux will not be able to support due to copyrights. After that linux will simply be relief for companies who dont wanna spend any money on server software, or nostalgia for hobbyists.

this is the sad, saaaaaad, truth that NOBODY wants to hear.

wow.. grim. But ubuntu IS improving, isn't it? OK, loads of device problems, but my ubuntu can run codecs my vista can't (maybe not all legal). Indeed I do many things in ubuntu I would not dream of attempting in vista. I agree that number of distros seems crazy. Infact uploading ubuntu itself sucks completely in many cases. Maybe we NEED to ensure linux gets a market share to prevent companies trying to squeeze it out in the name of profit? Also, not sure copyrights are that easily protected now anyhow? I think synaptic package manager works a dream though, never had a problem with the dependencies. Indeed my vista is worse (keeps looking for non existent drivers on the internet). OK, ubuntu forums is full of ubuntu freaks, but we WORK with these systems don't we? Why else do we use ubuntu?
Also, the copyright regarding open-source is important, otherwise it would soon become exploited by people. Maybe we will need to reorganise how we update software and how support is provided in the future...

aysiu
September 9th, 2008, 11:48 PM
linux will never have more than a few % of desktop share at best,
for get all the hardware, software and fud problems. Linux wont make it for a few reasons.

downstream dont talk to upstream, this is apparent everytime a major distro goes through a big update.

too many dependencies, when downloading a windows program you only get one file, and computer users are used to this, linux doesent work that way, thats why the package managers are there to cloak the whole dependancie dance.

microsoft takes care of other companies so that other companies take care of microsoft, Linux does not take care of companies enough, and even if every linux user/developer woke up one day and realized that companies are the key to marketshare, they still wouldnt have as many resources as microsoft to achieve good enterprise structure.

the company theory is very apparent in the fact that linux has only gained what land it has gained due to companies such as dell contibuting heavily to the linux's printing, and pre-loading, asus for ...well you already know, and even novell the "devil" are working hard to make sure linux users will be able to interact well will MS's silverlight, by introducing moonlight (http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight), despite the fact that linux users have a clear dislike for them as a company (http://boycottnovell.com/)

the GNU GPL squeezes companies by the tarballs, and i dont understand how linux users keep saying MS want you to do things their way, despite the fact that the GPL says the same thing,its goes something like
"use our code and your program has to be opensource"
compare that to the bsd licence
"do what you want just gimme the credit"

there is too much division, everyone is doing their own thing , its not so much "we can" its more, "i can" this is why there are 349+ distros most of which are incompatible.

All bsd's are compatible and they have a structure of which they work by so they dont end up with broken systems after updates. Most of the most frequently visited sites on the net run bsd, apple built osx from bsd, and their userbase hasnt stopped skyrocketing.

forget about other comapies this.... , and microsoft that ..., and hardware companies are this..., and pre-loading that. because non of those things matter if the operating system itself is incomplete.

take a hard look at vista, just the same a linux users, early vista users had problems with simple things. DESPITE the fact that vista came preloaded, DESPITE the fact that numerous hardware companies had vista drivers before vista even came out. Vista was horribly incomplete and this was vividly apparent due to the ammount people tying to use it(its userbase size).
What did microsoft do? blame hardware companies? blame OEM's? blame 3rd party software developers?
or blame themselves and fix their own problems with a service pack which has rendered vista useful now.
with linux there is always someone else to blame apart from linux itself. this cycle will continue until newer technology appears which linux will not be able to support due to copyrights. After that linux will simply be relief for companies who dont wanna spend any money on server software, or nostalgia for hobbyists.

this is the sad, saaaaaad, truth that NOBODY wants to hear.
Your post isn't truth just because you wrote it.

The sad, sad truth is that most of your points do not actually support your conclusion. Yes, there are hundreds of distros that are not all binary-compatible. So what? What does that have to do with anything? Do you really think a new user is going to try out Lunar, BeleniX, Berry, Blag, GeeXboX, IPCop, KateOS, and SaxenOS before giving Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, or Linux Mint a try?

Do you really think that if a preinstalled Linux option took off (say, Ubuntu on a Dell Mini Inspiron 11) that non-tech-savvy users would be saying "Oh, no. I bought this computer with Linux on it, but I'm going to try out 348 other distros just to be sure"? No. They'd just use whatever the computer came with, just as they do with Windows and Mac.

The sad, sad truth is that people generally stick with what they're used to, and will venture outside of that if several people they know in person (not online) use it and if there are commercial advertisements for it.

Let's make a little real-life comparison here.

I know no one else in person who has an Eee PC. No one. There was only one physical store in my city that had an actual Eee PC in the store, and that one they kept in a glass case, so you couldn't touch it or try it out. I never saw an Eee PC commercial. I'd never played with the Xandros "simple mode" interface before. So what did I do? I read hundreds and hundreds of online reviews and then ordered one from an online vendor (almost on faith, based on the reviews I'd read).

That process is not a typical one for consumers of electronics.

Let's look at the iPod a few years ago, for example. The first MP3 players my wife and I got were iPods. This is how it happened. We saw commercials for the iPod. We saw people on the buses with iPods. We saw iPods in the store. We knew they were created by Apple (a company we'd heard of and had experiences with ten to twenty years ago). We were able to not only read online reviews but also play around with the scroll wheel and hear the sound quality in a physical store. After that, we decided to purchase one (and then later a second one). That's how consumers generally work.

What Linux needs is basically an Apple store but for a Linux distro like Ubuntu. It's a physical store people can walk into, where they can try out things and see the build quality and play around with the interface. They need to see advertisements. They need to know other people who have bought this preinstalled option.

You can't hand people live CDs and say "Here. Back up your system. Set your BIOS to boot from CD, repartition your drive, and install and configure this new operating system" and then expect your product to take off with consumers.

Half-Left
September 9th, 2008, 11:57 PM
linux will never have more than a few % of desktop share at best,
for get all the hardware, software and fud problems. Linux wont make it for a few reasons.

downstream dont talk to upstream, this is apparent everytime a major distro goes through a big update.

too many dependencies, when downloading a windows program you only get one file, and computer users are used to this, linux doesent work that way, thats why the package managers are there to cloak the whole dependancie dance.

microsoft takes care of other companies so that other companies take care of microsoft, Linux does not take care of companies enough, and even if every linux user/developer woke up one day and realized that companies are the key to marketshare, they still wouldnt have as many resources as microsoft to achieve good enterprise structure.

the company theory is very apparent in the fact that linux has only gained what land it has gained due to companies such as dell contibuting heavily to the linux's printing, and pre-loading, asus for ...well you already know, and even novell the "devil" are working hard to make sure linux users will be able to interact well will MS's silverlight, by introducing moonlight (http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight), despite the fact that linux users have a clear dislike for them as a company (http://boycottnovell.com/)

the GNU GPL squeezes companies by the tarballs, and i dont understand how linux users keep saying MS want you to do things their way, despite the fact that the GPL says the same thing,its goes something like
"use our code and your program has to be opensource"
compare that to the bsd licence
"do what you want just gimme the credit"

there is too much division, everyone is doing their own thing , its not so much "we can" its more, "i can" this is why there are 349+ distros most of which are incompatible.

All bsd's are compatible and they have a structure of which they work by so they dont end up with broken systems after updates. Most of the most frequently visited sites on the net run bsd, apple built osx from bsd, and their userbase hasnt stopped skyrocketing.

forget about other comapies this.... , and microsoft that ..., and hardware companies are this..., and pre-loading that. because non of those things matter if the operating system itself is incomplete.

take a hard look at vista, just the same a linux users, early vista users had problems with simple things. DESPITE the fact that vista came preloaded, DESPITE the fact that numerous hardware companies had vista drivers before vista even came out. Vista was horribly incomplete and this was vividly apparent due to the ammount people tying to use it(its userbase size).
What did microsoft do? blame hardware companies? blame OEM's? blame 3rd party software developers?
or blame themselves and fix their own problems with a service pack which has rendered vista useful now.
with linux there is always someone else to blame apart from linux itself. this cycle will continue until newer technology appears which linux will not be able to support due to copyrights. After that linux will simply be relief for companies who dont wanna spend any money on server software, or nostalgia for hobbyists.

this is the sad, saaaaaad, truth that NOBODY wants to hear.

Well yes, until alot of people realize that you have no right to own the software or hardware you brought from these companies maybe they will.

Greed rules the world, alot of people are just to damn stubben to not use anything else. Windows is a platform full of pirates, getting your software for £10 or torrented off friends, great, you'd be surprised how many people think it's "the thing to do".

BTW, Linux is not a hobbyist OS, alot of big companies support Linux and they are a large part of contributing to the kernel.

Keeping Ubuntu how it is doesn't halm anyone, there is alot of plus's to be like this. Mark. S puts alot of money into Ubuntu, I'm sure he will want something out of it as Ubuntu gets bigger.

LaRoza
September 10th, 2008, 12:24 AM
this is the sad, saaaaaad, truth that NOBODY wants to hear.

Your posts don't align with reality.

If you don't want to use Linux, then don't. You are free to do that. But please don't show a trend of only posting anti-Linux posts. That is not productive and trolling.

Linux works perfectly for me, for Google, and for many things in between. Your lack of knowledge and inexperience isn't universal.

stat30fbliss
September 10th, 2008, 08:41 AM
Linux is beautiful, and I thank Ubuntu for giving me the ease to switch into a new world of computing. I thank the people that spend the time to develop these seriously useful programs with which to be productive, and do it differently.

That said, if Ubuntu happened to grow in Market Share to begin asking for a price, I am sure someone else would come up with another free option that many people may move to.

And on the other side of the coin, if you are trusting that your purchase will ensure some super-steroid Box-version that would knock your socks off, you'd probably buy it :)

I would.

ronnielsen1
September 11th, 2008, 05:10 AM
The other issue is that Linux will not become popular until support forums are less necessary,

Results 1 - 10 of about 23,100,000 for windows (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/windows%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNG_9ilUEiK0hL6gDW4DhpDZVxTyqg)
forums (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/forums%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNH4nMMqIBpiC2GZWg5qzPN55YYNAw)
. (0.21 seconds)
http://www.google.com/search?q=windows+forums&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a

ronnielsen1
September 11th, 2008, 05:19 AM
Radical3, The rest of us are here because we enjoy the freedom that linux brings us.
I figure it's one of 2 things - You work for Microsoft or you're frustrated over the learning curve of linux. Most - if not all- of us have been there and it finally sank in. If you're truly looking for help it's one thing but if your mission in life is to show us what a terrible operating system we're using - you are going to fail. If you're serious about trying to learn how to use linux - there's alot of people that are willing to help but if you're just going to be a troll, I'm really surprised you haven't been blacklisted by the site

ronnielsen1
September 11th, 2008, 05:25 AM
I think I figured it out. Every one of Rads posts are either how windows is better than linux or in some way antagonistic in nature. I guess if he has nothing better to do with his life

userundefine
September 11th, 2008, 09:11 AM
Now, I love the way ubuntu is global. However, I am wondering if I want the community to actually grow? Imagine ubuntu forums? There would be so many posts, and it would be harder to control rogue elements (like in any community which gets larger). I definately feel that ubuntu will experience an exponential growth soon. Windows Vista was a big mistake. People frequently have XP, ubuntu dual boot now. The Eee pc has introduced many people, including children, to the linux environment. Apart from ease of installation, ubuntu is definately competitive with windows.

However, what will happen when 50% of computer users use ubuntu? Will we have viruses? Will there be fake repositories, will posts be littered with hidden 'rm' commands?

I was going to write a thread calling for people to:

1. make a concerted effort to pressure computer suppliers to have ubuntu pre-install versions
2. get canonical to develop a bug free installation process which adapts to the majority of old and new computers
(the two main things I believe prevent new users of ubuntu)

However, now I'm thinking. Maybe we should stay this size. Any thoughts?
What you may not realize is that Ubuntu has already grown exponentially in size. I remember using Ubuntu in 2005, only recently after it'd been released in 2004 for the first time. It wasn't nearly as good as it is now. These forums also have come a long way. When I registered in 2006, there wasn't a constantly high number of users on the forums. Going from no users to millions in 4 years is incredible among Linux distros, and the growth has only made it better.

However, when we talk about "ubuntu" becoming more popular, I think you really just mean a linux distro (any), because it's not just Ubuntu that's as good as it is today, it's the linux kernel, Gnome/KDE, and all the fantastic parts of the system maturing at the same time. Linux is only getting better and better, and I've never seen it get worse. So, the more users the better, for the technology, and for the users. Viruses don't affect Linux NOT merely because of the small user base, but because the system is first and foremost built with better security in mind. The small user base of linux are very technical and skilled users in general, though, so viruses are less likely to affect them also. But security concerns are no reason for linux not to continue to grow. Security concerns, in fact, have only improved linux.

You're starting to see companies take it more seriously. The eeePC, Dell's linux computers, HP is doing some kind of Linux laptop I hear, and so on. It's getting more OVERTLY widespread, which is a good thing (because many people have unknowingly been running Linux on a phone or playstation or TiVo for years). If you want to campaign for it, the thing holding Linux back the most among OEMs is probably driver support. Writing to companies asking them for specifications so kernel devs can write drivers, or companies writing them themselves, is a great idea.

stinger30au
September 11th, 2008, 11:55 AM
http://www.google.com/search?q=windows+forums&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a


you forgot to put windows forums inside quotation marks like this

"windows forums" (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22windows+forums%22&btnG=Search&meta=)

and you get the result of

Results 1 - 10 of about 235,000 for "windows (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/windows%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNG_9ilUEiK0hL6gDW4DhpDZVxTyqg) forums (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/forums%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNH4nMMqIBpiC2GZWg5qzPN55YYNAw)". (0.06 seconds)

ronnielsen1
September 11th, 2008, 08:28 PM
you forgot to put windows forums inside quotation marks like this

"windows forums" (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22windows+forums%22&btnG=Search&meta=)

and you get the result of

Results 1 - 10 of about 235,000 for "windows (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/windows%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNG_9ilUEiK0hL6gDW4DhpDZVxTyqg) forums (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/forums%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNH4nMMqIBpiC2GZWg5qzPN55YYNAw)". (0.06 seconds)
You are correct but 235000 windows forums posts should be enough to counter the below statement


The other issue is that Linux will not become popular until support forums are less necessary,

graabein
September 11th, 2008, 09:37 PM
Yes off course we want to popularise Ubuntu - humanity to others.