windows hostility

[ralph4100]

Can someone explain to me why linux users express such adamant hostility towards windows? I mean, it's like a badge of pride. But windows is actually very user friendly compared with linux, which is why most people use it. I mean I've been using computers forever and programming for 5 or 6 years, professionally for 3 years (web programming) and linux isn't too easy for me. Windows is. Why the hate? I mean I know linux is better, but only for people who are really good with computers.

[RawMustard]

Because computing in general would be 20 years more advanced than it is now, if it were not for the stifling of innovation brought about by a criminally convicted monopoly hell bent on controlling everything you do on a computer! Think about that for a minute and then see if you can understand why all the aggro exists?

[BoyOfDestiny]

Can someone explain to me why linux users express such adamant hostility towards windows? I mean, it's like a badge of pride. But windows is actually very user friendly compared with linux, which is why most people use it. I mean I've been using computers forever and programming for 5 or 6 years, professionally for 3 years (web programming) and linux isn't too easy for me. Windows is. Why the hate? I mean I know linux is better, but only for people who are really good with computers.

Well I think you answered your own question.

[UbunuAndrew]

Because Windows does everything bass-akwards. This is coming from a new linux user as well. I used to be a Windows Hippy. I preferred 2003, over LInux for servers. I preferred XP as a desktop. Then one day I woke up rolled over to hopefully see Windows laying next to me. Only thing is, it crapped the bed and left me hanging there. Thankfully I didn't 'store' anything too important inside of it.

The thing is, I'm not a stupid user and download things left and right that would cause my system problems. I am rather conservative. Heck, I wasn't even using an AMD board in which I would blame the board before the OS even if it was the OS - but I was using a P4 1.8 with 1gig of RAM and a 60GB hard drive. It wasn't anything spectacular, but just a solid system. Windows just crapped itself and took off.. so, I abandoned Windows and popped in that complimentary Ubuntu CD.

[Pablo_Escobar]

I don't hate Window$, i just simply chose not to use it.
If someone wishes to use M$ products, that's fine by me, let them grind their teeth :D
I have a very bad memory of M$ products and Linux has been a saviour for me :)
If there was no M$ we wouldn't have anything to rant about :D

[Cyril]

I too think that much of the hostility towards windows/microsoft is unfounded but the number pro linux/anti ms people here is too overwhelming to win this arguement no matter how valid it might be.

[bionnaki]

you should note the difference between disliking MS and disliking those who use windows. there is a difference. I doubt many linux users ever insult those who use windows - and if they do, they are out of line.

Bashing MS itself , on the other hand, is fair game - in my opinion.

[matthewv]

Some people hate windows simply because of their view of the ideas and motivation behind microsoft. Maybe they just hate bill gates because he's rich, maybe there's truth to what they say. I will not judge that. I just use linux because I find it to be superior to windows: I prefer using it. If you prefer to use windows that is your choice.

[slux]

I mean I've been using computers forever and programming for 5 or 6 years, professionally for 3 years (web programming) and linux isn't too easy for me. Windows is. Why the hate? I mean I know linux is better, but only for people who are really good with computers.

I agree about the hate not being a good thing but I think the feelings grow because of Microsoft's business practices. They simply make it very hard to be using anything but their software when they deliberately make it incompatible with anything else even when there's a clear standard to be followed (web browsers).

What exactly do you find so difficult in GNU/Linux? Particularly Ubuntu. I admit some things are harder than they could be but those are stuff that are off limits to most casual users anyway and I'd say Ubuntu is very easy to use for the typical PC user. Would people agree?

The way I see it, it's even easier than Windows in some respects. Software installation couldn't be much simpler (and you don't even need to install as much as on clean Windows install), you don't need to have a special firewall, antivirus and antispyware program which I think is really a lot to ask from a typical user. I'm sure there's more.

[nocturn]

Can someone explain to me why linux users express such adamant hostility towards windows? I mean, it's like a badge of pride.


This has been discussed here numerous times.
If windows and Microsoft simply competed against Linux (or anyone else), we wouldn't have these feelings.

Many of us, including myself, have bad feelings toward them for their aggressive dominance of the market, forcing any competition out of it, not by making a better product, but using exclusive contracts and forcing vendors to sell Windows only.

I take offense that I had to buy a Laptop that includes a Windows license while I have not used Windows at home since 1999. I could not find any vendor that would sell a suitable machine without it.

Then there is the 'get-the-facts' FUD campaign. Linux is eating their market share and they see no better response then using lies?

We mind the lies, we mind the underhanded business tactics and we mind the intimidation. Let's not forget that we are talking about a company that has been convicted for being a monopoly (and stealing software from competitors, like Apple).



But windows is actually very user friendly compared with linux, which is why most people use it.


I beg to differ. If you look at the general rules of good interface design, Windows is a mess.
People call it user-friendly because they are used to it, not because it is better. Usability studies on new users (not ex-windows users) have actually indicated that both KDE, Gnome and OS X are easier to learn.

The part where Windows is easier for the newbie is installing programs etc, but mainly because it disables most security features. Sure ActiveX is easy, click on .exe and install, but how do most people get viruses?
How many open ports does a default windows install have? Ubuntu has 0.

That brings me to the point. Windows makes it easy enough for a newbie to install programs etc, but you need at the least install firewall software, antivirus software and some malware protection to keep it running, this is beyond even most intermediate users.
A good example about this danger is the spread of the Sony rootkit, that installs when inserting a (legally bought) audio CD.



I mean I've been using computers forever and programming for 5 or 6 years, professionally for 3 years (web programming) and linux isn't too easy for me. Windows is. Why the hate? I mean I know linux is better, but only for people who are really good with computers.

You say that you have been using a computer for 6 years. You mean to say that you have used a windows computer for 6 years?
It has taken you years to aquire your current set of skills on windows, so the question is, how long have you been using Linux?

Contrary to popular beliefs, Linux is pretty easy in general, especially if you get used to it. The notable exception is where it needs to be complicated (like requiring a password to install programs).

[nocturn]

I too think that much of the hostility towards windows/microsoft is unfounded but the number pro linux/anti ms people here is too overwhelming to win this arguement no matter how valid it might be.

If someone forces me to pay for a product I neither want nor use, yes, I'm angry.

If that same person/company then sponsors SCO to attack Linux, my anger rises.
If that same person/company start a campaign of lies against my community, my anger turns into outright hostility.

Do you ever wonder why these ill feelings are all directed towards Microsoft and not IBM/Apple/Cisco, even though at least Apple makes something that directly competes against Linux?
Why aren't we angry at FreeBSD for making a competing product?

Maybe it is because we do not mind the competition, if they play fair.

[codejunkie]

after 4 years of using linux on and off, i really haven't noticed two many hard core linux users wasting there time complaning about windows. we are very proud/hardheaded/pigheaded at times about linux because we are linux users. and the same thing holds true of hardcore windows & mac users, right or wrong they uphold there os no matter what other people think. and yes i do to see the antimicrosoft/antimac post's on this and other linux forums i frequent, but 98 percent of the time they are started be some linux newbie, that has just spent 8 hours or so, trying to recover there data that was lost by there 1000th virus-piece-of-spyware on windows. or the occasional mac user that is running somewhat older hardware, that's pissed because newer software dosen't support there machine, just because apple want's them to shell out big bucks for pretty looking over priced hardware. i know that statement is going to make a few mac people mad, but as a former mac user i know it's true apple expects us to drop 2500+ every 3 or so years or you can't use a current version of mac os and apps written for mac os.

[bulldogzerofive]

Please, read this:

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=58017

1. I do not have anything resembling 6 years of experience with computers and i find GNU/Linux much easier to use than windows. I think it is because i learned windows only shortly before learning GNU/Linux and i still remember the headaches and hand-wringing trying to learn how to do things. God, just try to change your keyboard layout in Windows without changing the language and region settings. AARGH!

2. I think most Linux users who complain about microsoft are frustrated about the business practices, the attacks, and the FUD, all of which have already been covered.

[stimpack]

I hated Windows when I was a Windows user, Linux has nothing to do with it.

I expect its as simple as: Windows is not knowledge friendly, it treats you like a moron. Most linux users are knowledgable.

Thats of course ignoring MS and some disgusting practices.

[Carbon Copy Man]

I hated Windows when I was a Windows user, Linux has nothing to do with it.
Indeed. I've always found Windows to be extremely temperamental. Though... I guess I was used to the stability of DOS.

We always waited a couple of years before upgrading to the latest Win OS. It was safer to wait until they'd released a few patches.

I'm a fan of the X-Box. It's been a hell of a lot better to me than the PS2. And compared to Electronic Arts, Microsoft almost seems angelic.

But Windows...

[quietglow]

Windows is a usability/design nightmare. Very, very little thought about how people work went into its original design. It is simply a very crude GUI which has gradually been piled upon for years and years. Yuck.

[Cyril]

OK I understand why people would be unhappy with microsoft. What I feel is that many of the complaints of microsoft software are not valid. Seems to me people like to twist facts when they talk about windows. For example, I see people use the flaws of windows ME to criticise windows XP. Also, people like to put things in such a way that it seems that in windows you can never recover from a crash while in linux you always can. I have not seen the blue screen of death in years literally and I have had more unrecoverable crashes on linux systems than windows.

I am not taking the side of windows or linux. My point is certainly not that windows is better than linux or vice versa. Its just that feel this topic is rarely discussed fairly and without bias.

[RawMustard]

I have not seen the blue screen of death in years literally and I have had more unrecoverable crashes on linux systems than windows.

I am not taking the side of windows or linux. My point is certainly not that windows is better than linux or vice versa. Its just that feel this topic is rarely discussed fairly and without bias.

You're very correct in this regard, I think it's because not too many long time linux users have actually used Windows 2000 or XP. As much as I dislike the way Microsoft conduct their business, I have to say that Windows is farm more advanced than Gnome and KDE, not linux, linux is just the kernel and that's where some people get confused. What they should really be comparing is Windows against Gnome and KDE and Windows wins hands down so far - IMHO!

[Carbon Copy Man]

XP was definitely a relief after the previous versions of Windows, and I believe I've only ever seen the blue screen of death once or twice.

XP was an improvement, but at the same time I was hit by a lot of weird annoying wizards and I had to manually add "my computer" to the desktop. Initially I was a little paranoid about not having DOS to fall back on, but it worked a lot better than the earlier Windows...

Though the computer still dies after a couple months.


Anyone who used Windows ME shouldn't have. It's disgraceful even by their standards. I don't think Windows ME should be considered Windows for the purpose of comparison. Better to pretend Microsoft went straight from Windows 98 to Windows XP.


What they should really be comparing is Windows against Gnome and KDE and Windows wins hands down so far - IMHO!

As a Windows veteran, and a Linux newbie of about a couple weeks... Gnome is infinitely better than Windows. The "Workspace" function alone has earned my love.

[wabble]

Can someone explain to me why linux users express such adamant hostility towards windows? I mean, it's like a badge of pride. But windows is actually very user friendly compared with linux, which is why most people use it. I mean I've been using computers forever and programming for 5 or 6 years, professionally for 3 years (web programming) and linux isn't too easy for me. Windows is. Why the hate? I mean I know linux is better, but only for people who are really good with computers.

You know what you use. Before you use something you have to get to know it. After some time in linux you get to know linux and how it works. I like windows less because ms treats customers like a criminal after windows is installed. Lisence code, activate, verify, update. They take it out on their paying customers when they do something wrong.

[GeneralZod]

You're very correct in this regard, I think it's because not too many long time linux users have actually used Windows 2000 or XP.

Robert Love, a pretty famous kernel hacker, gave a talk on Optimising GNOME a while back. Near the end, when comparing the performance of a Linux desktop (kernel + X + DE) with Windows, he reeled off an interesting fact - a significant number of kernel developers had not used Windows very recently at all. They had not used XP. They had not used 2000. They had not used ME, or even 98. A lot of them had not used Windows since Windows 95. And yet, these people still see fit to criticise Windows for being slow and unstable. He went on to suggest, very delicately, that those who gloat about just how much faster and more stable Linux (again, talking about the whole Linux Desktop here) is than XP should go back and re-examine their assumptions. If I had been at the talk, I'd have given him a standing ovation just for that! :)

For the record, I've had Windows XP crash on me a handful of times in my life, and all were due to a dodgy graphics card (they crashed X in half the time) whereas I've had X crashes (but I don't think I've had any kernel crashes) several times. At work, we have a whole bunch of desktops running XP, and I've never heard anyone complain about crashes here, either. So, while it's entirely possible that I'm in the minority and that for everyone else XP BSOD's every day, I'm still inclined to roll my eyes whenever a Linux user shouts "lol Windows == BSOD lol". Also for the record, I think Microsoft are a really horrible company but while I can take or leave most of their software, I wouldn't call it crap in terms of functionality or stability, although it's security record is dismal.

[Brunellus]

While I agree that windows 2000 and Windows XP are miles ahead of their predecessors in terms of stability, there is the matter of their filesystem, ntfs, which requires routine defragmentation to keep running smoothly Also, even WinXP desktops that stay up for extended periods of time eventually become sluggish; something I have not noticed on ubuntu.

Microsoft gets my hostility because of their efforts, since 1995, to render more and more of the core functions of their OS non-human-readable. On Linux, everything is literally open.

[rjwood]

How did the people on the windows forums answered the same question about linux?

[Stormy Eyes]

Can someone explain to me why linux users express such adamant hostility towards windows?

I don't forgive anybody that doesn't give me my money's worth. If you think I'm hostile towards Windows, try asking my opinion of Metallica's St. Anger album.

[nocturn]

You're very correct in this regard, I think it's because not too many long time linux users have actually used Windows 2000 or XP. As much as I dislike the way Microsoft conduct their business, I have to say that Windows is farm more advanced than Gnome and KDE, not linux, linux is just the kernel and that's where some people get confused. What they should really be comparing is Windows against Gnome and KDE and Windows wins hands down so far - IMHO!

I have been happy to have been completely free of windows for about 2 years in a row, but now I have been using XP on my laptop from work for a year again.

It is more stable then 98, Ok, but it is still far from reliable and requires endless reboots and maintenance to keep working. My Ubuntu laptop at home is running fine.

In which areas do you feel that the windows GUI is better then Gnome and KDE?

[cstudent]

I don't particularly dislike Windows. I definately do not like Microsoft. I don't like their EULA. I don't like their infringement on my personal rights. I don't like the way they do business.

Bill