Is DELL taking Linux seriously?

[ARhere]

I have been posting for a while on DELL's website called Idea Storm (http://www.ideastorm.com) and Open Source requests are always on the top of the popularity scale. In some cases, it appears that DELL is moving forward in support of Linux as a serious OS; and in other cases it seems like they still regard it as a "hobbiest" OS. This contradiction is most obvious with the recent release of the DELL mini 9.

A lot of posts, in other threads discussing the mini 9, have stated the Ubuntu version is +/-$15 compared to the Windows version. I double checked this carefully and with the "Instant Savings" the Windows version is the same price as the Ubuntu version with the same specs.


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My Service
1Yr Ltd Warranty and Mail-In Service
Also Includes
Intel® Atom Processor® N270 (1.6GHz/533Mhz FSB/512K cache)
Glossy 8.9 inch LED display (1024X600)
Intel Graphics Media Accelerator (GMA) 950
Wireless 802.11g Mini Card
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I feel the need to point out pro- and anti- Linux actions that DELL has made in the case of the mini 9. My purpose is not to bash DELL, but to encourage other opinions. I would please encourage open discussion/positive criticism only.

Apparent Anti-Linux Actions:
1. The Windows version comes with an instant savings, Ubuntu does not.
2. Only the Windows version is available now, the Linux version is pre-order only.
3. Until the mini 9, Linux has been tucked away under a single link, hard for someone too see without knowing to look for it.

Apparent Pro-Linux Actions:
1. Only the Linux version comes with a free 1-year, 2GB subscription to box.com. (verified by one online DELL rep.)
2. Linux is advertised next to the Windows version, without being hidden. Any common customer will see this option along side Windows.
3. DELL has steadily increased the number of pre-installed Linux machines offered.

Draw your own conclusions. Personally I cannot tell at this point what DELL is doing. Are they trying to move forward with Linux, facing pressures from Microsoft? Or are they simply offering Linux openly with the mini 9 because Linux Nettops are a fad?

-AR

[Oldsoldier2003]

There is a very good chance that Dell isn't even aware of what they are doing lol. I'm sure that they are experimenting to see what the most profitable approach will be. Even though they have shown support for Linux you have to remember the bottom line for any business is cold hard cash.

[barbedsaber]

MS gives hardware manufacturers money if they preinstall windows.

[phrostbyte]

I did the math and you only save $15 by going with the Ubuntu version if you spec the machines exactly the same. I think this is fair though, because I got a feeling MSFT is licensing Windows XP at stupidly low fees for netbooks. I would still go with the Ubuntu version because I think it's superior (and I want to show my support for Linux), but I wish they had for sale instead of preorder.

[snowpine]

Hi ARhere, we already have another thread going on this topic, but I am going to reply to you anyway because I like your avatar. :)

The Dell Corp exists to make money, it is how the system works, and I do not equate that with greed. If they appear to support Windows over Linux at times (or vice versa) it is because they're trying to run a profitable business. The whole Mini 9 thing is a great opportunity for Ubuntu because, as you say, it is advertized side-by-side with the Windows version. If it sells well (which I believe it will) then you can bet they'll take Linux more seriously.

[y@w]

There is a very good chance that Dell isn't even aware of what they are doing lol. I'm sure that they are experimenting to see what the most profitable approach will be. Even though they have shown support for Linux you have to remember the bottom line for any business is cold hard cash.

They're really just testing the waters, you're right. But if it helps sell some machines they'll push Linux. Windows is such a commodity now that I can't imagine it costs them anything to sell it, so the price isn't going to be what drives Dell into selling it. It'll have to be the community creating a market for the machines.

[radical3]

DELL is a company that needs to make money, the "pre-order only" ubuntu is so that they dont end up with 100,000 ubuntu pre-loads no one wants to buy.

Dell is the only giant ubuntu has, but they are not "free and opensource" they are a company and they will do what is best financially. you need to stop (passively?) flaming your only friends.

@phrostbyte
windows can give away their OS at any price they want, that shouldn't affect ubuntu, ubuntu is free, i dont get what you are tying to say.

Ubuntu is a great OS and now people have a chance to get it pre-loaded, but for some reason that isnt good enough?

[phrostbyte]

DELL is a company that needs to make money, the "pre-order only" ubuntu is so that they dont end up with 100,000 ubuntu pre-loads no one wants to buy.

Dell is the only giant ubuntu has, but they are not "free and opensource" they are a company and they will do what is best financially. you need to stop (passively?) flaming your only friends.

@phrostbyte
windows can give away their OS at any price they want, that shouldn't affect ubuntu, ubuntu is free, i dont get what you are tying to say.

Ubuntu is a great OS and now people have a chance to get it pre-loaded, but for some reason that isnt good enough?

I'm saying that I have a hutch that Microsoft is licensing Windows to these netbook OEMs at rock bottom prices. This is good and bad (for Linux), it's bad because it means OEMs will more likely carry Windows and set prices of Linux machines similar to Windows prices, and it's good because this the revenue loss will bite Microsoft on the behind later if netbooks become more then just a 'fad'.

And of course it's a good thing for the market overall, competition and lower prices. :)

[Tindytim]

I would go with the Linux version simply because I have plenty of Windows XP keys sitting around. And a few Vista ones.

SO I can install XP when I need to (and my own special nlite or vlite version).

[Hilipatti]

Mini OS powered by Ubuntu 8.04

"Mini OS" As if Ubuntu/linux is not a complete operating system, but rather some sort of poor mini-version of X...

You missed that one.

[y@w]

"Mini OS" As if Ubuntu/linux is not a complete operating system, but rather some sort of poor mini-version of X...

You missed that one.

But the laptop is supposed to be mini as well :)

[Hilipatti]

But the laptop is supposed to be mini as well :)

That really isn't the issue.

Saying that Ubuntu / linux is a "Mini system" implies that it is not fully featured or lacks certain features, when it infact does not.

[y@w]

Well, would you have rather they said "bloated OS"? Mini OS sounds a lot better than "alternative OS" or something that's maybe more acurate. Whatever they call it except for "Ubuntu", it's going to sound like a cheap knock-off since they're offering it on the cheaper model.

[ARhere]

That really isn't the issue.

Saying that Ubuntu / linux is a "Mini system" implies that it is not fully featured or lacks certain features, when it infact does not.

I did notice that and I could not comment just yet. The version of Ubuntu on the mini 9 might not be a standard load, or it could be marketing B.S. We don't know until someone gets one. So the statement might be correct.

-AR

[snowpine]

I did notice that and I could not comment just yet. The version of Ubuntu on the mini 9 might not be a standard load, or it could be marketing B.S. We don't know until someone gets one. So the statement might be correct.

-AR

I thought it was the new Netbook Remix, in which case the mini moniker seems apt.

[Icehuck]

I thought it was the new Netbook Remix, in which case the mini moniker seems apt.

Your logic doesn't belong here. They are clearly trying to destroy Ubuntu as well as Linux. Now where is my tin foil hat?

[b3n87]

Why can't people just be greatful that Dell ship Ubuntu at all?

[eragon100]

I think they are giving the ubuntu version more attention than the windows version:

- the huge orange box screaming "Pre-Order with Mini OS powered by Ubuntu"

- the 100 $ lower cost

A very good thing :popcorn:

And now the best part: Windows is NOT AVAILABLE on the inspiron mini, so people who want to use that model (or just don't have enough money to buy the more expensive ones) are
FORCED to run ubuntu!! :) :) :) :) :popcorn: WHEEE-AAHH!!! GO DELL!!

[y@w]

And now the best part: Windows is NOT AVAILABLE on the inspiron mini, so people who want to use that model (or just don't have enough money to buy the more expensive ones) are
FORCED to run ubuntu!!

Well.. you can get Windows XP Home on the Mini, just not on the bottom end one. Now, the difference between the bottom two is not just the OS so I can't imagine it costs Dell anything to put XP on them.

[eragon100]

Well.. you can get Windows XP Home on the Mini, just not on the bottom end one. Now, the difference between the bottom two is not just the OS so I can't imagine it costs Dell anything to put XP on them.

True, but still, if you don't have much money and/or technical skill, you are forced to run ubuntu!! :cool: :cool: :) :) :guitar: :popcorn:

[keishii]

In the end, it's all about the profit margin at the end of the month. But, at least, some alternative is offered.

[kspncr]

I more or less have to go with the flow on this one and assume that Dell is just thinking of profits. It wouldn't make sense for them to advertise the Windows and Ubuntu version exactly the same because the vast majority are going to go for the Windows versions and Dell knows it.

[radical3]

I would go with the Linux version simply because I have plenty of Windows XP keys sitting around. And a few Vista ones.

SO I can install XP when I need to (and my own special nlite or vlite version).

ha ha ha ha, what do you think windows is? install those versions on a computer you didn't buy it for and its straight to jail, its the other way around, you buy the windows one and install linux on it when you need it, because linux is allowed to be installed on anything windows isn't.
or is it that; Law isn't open source so it shouldn't be obeyed ?

[Tindytim]

ha ha ha ha, what do you think windows is? install those versions on a computer you didn't buy it for and its straight to jail, its the other way around, you buy the windows one and install linux on it when you need it, because linux is allowed to be installed on anything windows isn't.
or is it that; Law isn't open source so it shouldn't be obeyed ?

That's only if I replace files (reverse engineer ones to change the performance, or functions on the operating system). I can edit it as I please with whatever applications pre-installed I want. Or remove applications (like Outlook).

I just have an install that excludes a few things, has an unattended install with my Key, uses all of my settings, my Username and Password, quite a few choice applications, and a good percentage of bloatware cut out. All of that is legal.

I'm surprised how uninformed people all when they attempted to bash windows.

[beast2k]

You must always keep in mind company's such as Dell are responsible to their shareholders and as such business is business. By that I mean they must go where the money is. Linux is just not used by very many people when compared to Ms Windows or Mac for that matter (Linux use must be close to Mac by now?) So Windows is where the money is and as such Linux users just do not bring in enough sales to be taken seriously. It's always about the money when it comes to company's that size.

[Hilipatti]

You must always keep in mind company's such as Dell are responsible to their shareholders and as such business is business. By that I mean they must go where the money is. Linux is just not used by very many people when compared to Ms Windows or Mac for that matter (Linux use must be close to Mac by now?) So Windows is where the money is and as such Linux users just do not bring in enough sales to be taken seriously. It's always about the money when it comes to company's that size.

Sure, but that has nothing to do with some of this. Really.

It's not "windows is where the money is" for some issues.

Because, they could easily use more neutral terms but they have used some negative terms for referring to things. They could be completely neutral with their terms and everything..

For example, like I mentioned earlier, the "Mini-operating system" thing, which leaves you with a taste that it's something with less features etc etc. There's no reason to claim so and it isn't even true unless it's a customized much lighter version of Ubuntu. They could say, that it uses the "Ubuntu GNU/Linux system" or whatever, that isn't really the essential part. What they SHOULD do anyway is admit, that Windows applications don't run on the Ubuntu system and that it isn't the same thing as Windows. You don't have to say "WOW THIS THING SUCKS DON'T USE IT".

There's a difference with just telling the facts without bias and bashing something for no reason.

You can just tell the facts like they are without leaving someone with the taste that "X is waaay better than the other", let the person reading the text decide if the particular thing fits their needs.

I happen to think that the Ubuntu system, when preinstalled like on the Dell machine, is perfectly capable of the basic tasks for basic users. You can surf the web, send emails, listen to music and watch movies just like you can on Windows and you don't have to install anything for these basic tasks, but if you use Windows you must install pretty much everything since the Windows system actually lacks pretty much everything that I think should be bundled with an operating system with a desktop environment.

The netbook market is exactly about the basic laptop for people that want to surf the web while on the go. For this purpose, Ubuntu is sufficient.

-- Edited a bit for clarification, since I guess the money thing does apply to some of the issues.

I do have to point out something about the price as well. Windows XP may cost something like $30. That number goes down from the crapware. To say, $15. I believe Dell has actually paid the fees for the codecs etc. So Ubuntu may cost something like $10. It's not a huge difference. Plus there's probably more demand for the Windows version (which I don't really understand, since you'll have to dedicate limited resources to stuff like antivirus programs and a firewall, and the Ubuntu version can do the netbook-tasks just as well.) In any case, the Ubuntu version is the cheapest, and people may buy that one if they want a cheap deal. The XP version would be more expensive but Dell is offering Instant Savings at the moment, which is also a part of the issue. But I do think that some people will be paying more for the XP version simply because they're afraid of the Ubuntu offering. If Dell would actually advertise the Ubuntu version and demonstrate the ease-of-use, I think it could sell really well if people will understand that it works for the task and you don't need to get additional (costy) software which will provide further savings.

[zmjjmz]

The only thing I don't like is that while the Mini 9 with Ubuntu may be 350$, you have that subscription and only 1GB of storage!
Seriously, what the hell?
My cell phone (and it's not even a smartphone) has more storage than that.
My cell phone cost somewhere around 80$.
They could definitely at least have 2GB of storage in there.

[ARhere]

The only thing I don't like is that while the Mini 9 with Ubuntu may be 350$, you have that subscription and only 1GB of storage!
Seriously, what the hell?
My cell phone (and it's not even a smartphone) has more storage than that.
My cell phone cost somewhere around 80$.
They could definitely at least have 2GB of storage in there.

Re-read the offering. The base starts at 4GB and can be upgraded to 8GB or 16GB. The free online storage thing is 2GB for one year, no idea how much that cost.

Solid State Memory appropriate for a computer is more expensive then a USB stick (or the micro SD that is probably in your phone) of the same size because it must take a lot more read/write cycles. It is strongly hinted that using standard nand-flash, like those in USB memory sticks, will not last long when used as a swap file.

-AR

[Warpnow]

I think calling it a Mini OS is a good thing.

Who would buy an "alternative" or "different" OS if they already knew Windows? You don't lay out any advantages.

Whereas, on a small netbook, where there is concern for space, and speed, calling it "mini" could stimulate sales amongst the non-linux-users.

[mike1234]

Why can't people just be greatful that Dell ship Ubuntu at all?

Exactly! Who else offers Linux? I mean big PC makers. Windows is panicking because if they don't offer a solution, Linux gains market share. It may appear the MS is a better deal to some. But isn't that the point? The only thing about all this that troubles me is, most people will choose Windows because they're getting "something" for nothing. Linux is free, and those of us who use it will install it anyways. On paper Linux isn't a very attractive offer. I bought my Dell server with no OS. And saved bigtime. At least at the time it was, saving several hundreds of dollars. I've got all kinds of distro's laying around.

M.

[ARhere]

there is a very good chance that dell isn't even aware of what they are doing lol. I'm sure that they are experimenting to see what the most profitable approach will be. Even though they have shown support for linux you have to remember the bottom line for any business is cold hard cash.

+1 -ar

[eragon100]

Exactly! Who else offers Linux? I mean big PC makers. Windows is panicking because if they don't offer a solution, Linux gains market share. It may appear the MS is a better deal to some. But isn't that the point? The only thing about all this that troubles me is, most people will choose Windows because they're getting "something" for nothing. Linux is free, and those of us who use it will install it anyways. On paper Linux isn't a very attractive offer. I bought my Dell server with no OS. And saved bigtime. At least at the time it was, saving several hundreds of dollars. I've got all kinds of distro's laying around.

M.

Lenovo on real computers (laptops, I believe as well), and HP to if I am not mistaken.

Acer and asus on their netbooks

[archer6]

In some cases, it appears that DELL is moving forward in support of Linux as a serious OS; and in other cases it seems like they still regard it as a "hobbiest" OS. This contradiction is most obvious with the recent release of the DELL mini 9.

I feel the need to point out pro- and anti- Linux actions that DELL has made in the case of the mini 9. My purpose is not to bash DELL, but to encourage other opinions. I would please encourage open discussion/positive criticism only.
First of all I thank you for your well thought out post.
I'm very happy to comment here, as I too have asked myself this same question. I have watched Dell like a hawk, from the very day they first offered Ubuntu Linux on an Inspiron. It's been an interesting / frustrating "movie". At one point I was ready to order the XPS M1330 model with Ubuntu 7.10. I decided to think about it overnight and place the order the next day, only to return and find it no longer listed on the site. When I called Dell sales, they gave me some story that sounded for all the world as double talk. It was that very experience that truly surprised me and made me think "just how serious IS Dell about Ubuntu Laptops. In fact not only had they pulled the XPS off the site, but all Ubuntu computers.

Fast forward to yesterday when I called into order a Dell Mini 9 with Ubuntu. I was told that it would be 6 to 10 weeks before I would be receiving the computer, as the demand for Ubuntu was so high! The other Windows Models they had in stock. So I decided to pass, having had another bad experience when Dell quoted times so far out. Anything could happen and if like last time, I would be waiting 12 weeks. Far too long for my patience to bear.....:shock:

[zmjjmz]

Wait, they're that backordered and they haven't even started shipping them yet?!
Dayum.
I want one now.
EDIT: Apparently one liaison doesn't take it seriously...
http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/10089069/Please_make_Ubuntu_XPS_Notebook_cheaper_than_XPS_V ista_Notebook

[archer6]

Having participated in , and followed Dell's IdeaStorm site, I must say that I'm a bit put off by what seems to be a self serving "different" form of Advertising. As of yet, I've not seen anything come out of that effort of any consequence. Especially on the hardware side. Oh sure, they've created and somewhat rapidly pushed out the Studio Series, and some other "new" styles. But after its all said and done they have yet to improve quality to where it needs to be, to fulfill their desire to be perceived as a "quality computer mfg".

On a positive note, I really like the idea and thus I participate. However I've seen some very good ideas presented and promptly swept under the rug. Or perhaps "SAVED" for a rainy day. After all progress the Dell way is slowing at an alarming rate. Too bad, as they are in a position to recover lost time and market share, build some good laptops, and prosper.

[starcannon]

Apparent Anti-Linux Actions:
1. The Windows version comes with an instant savings, Ubuntu does not.
2. Only the Windows version is available now, the Linux version is pre-order only.
3. Until the mini 9, Linux has been tucked away under a single link, hard for someone too see without knowing to look for it.

Thats not an Anti-Linux Action, it is one or both of 2 things:

Microsoft is footing the rebate bill
It's a Pro Microsoft Action


I really hand it to Dell, stepping up and offering serious computers for Linux users. As far as that $40 rebate, my best hypothesis is that Microsoft is paying it. Microsoft made the mistake they often make, assuming they will determine whats best for the users, and ignored the umpc market. The users of course are eating them up, and Microsoft is at this point probably scratching their heads trying to figure out exactly what happened. I think this will be a boon for those using Windows XP as it will give Microsoft a reason to extend sales and support of that version of Windows, as Vista is... well, lets just say it won't do well on many of the cpu's and ram configurations shipping on most umpc's.

GO DELL!

P.S. am guessing the linux versions sold out, it is very likely that popularity of the linux version was grossly underestimated.

[zmjjmz]

One bit of wording that annoys me:
"Look for Ubuntu Linux 8.04 with custom Dell interface when customizing your Inspiron Mini 9, or upgrade to XP (XP is paraphrased)"
That gives the impression that XP > Ubuntu, which is probably not true (I mean, it depends on your uses. But in fact, the people who use the netbook will prefer Ubuntu to XP).

[archer6]

One bit of wording that annoys me:
"Look for Ubuntu Linux 8.04 with custom Dell interface when customizing your Inspiron Mini 9, or upgrade to XP (XP is paraphrased)"

I concur, nicely said.

Now... as far as "THE" word that can (but not always does) truly annoy ME?

Dell...:shock:

[ARhere]

To open up the thread a little, I gave in and ordered the DELL mini-9 Ubuntu version. I can honestly say I have never purchased a PC from a major PC maker before.

I am curious to see the quality of the product when I get it.

-AR

[zmjjmz]

They seem to have lost the whole "upgrade to Windows" thing, and now they're offering Ubuntu on better specced models.
Good.
EDIT: More evidence that they give a shat: http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/10089069/Please_make_Ubuntu_XPS_Notebook_cheaper_than_XPS_V ista_Notebook

[earthpigg]

edit: double post, mod can delete this

[earthpigg]

check it out (http://www.dell.com/content/default.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&~ck=cr), they have the "Mini OS" desktop background on their display model, and have a brown cup of coffee right next to it....

reading the ubuntu forums, maybe? ;)

and, when you click the link the next page does not list "Mini OS"... it lists "Ubuntu Linux version 8.0.4"

[ARhere]

Indeed. The clues are subtle as I have noticed little changes here and there on the website whenever I see a rant about it here.

wonders if a few Dell employee's are also Ubuntu fans and read these forums. :guitar:

-AR