Getting to grip with Linux, a BBC editors report

[AndyCooll]

Getting to grips with Linux (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7594249.stm)

"Gary Parkinson had a torrid time when he converted to Linux. Here he shares his experiences with one of the alternatives to Microsoft's ubiquitous operating system."

Hmmmm ...

:cool:

[Dixon Bainbridge]

He can't get an ipod working on linux? wtf? Its a piece of **** to sort. One search on these forums will tell you how to do it.

Xandros is crap though. Poor choice for pre-installed linux.

[munkyeetr]

The fly in the ointment remains the music management software. I still can't sync an iPod and Agent Pedder reckons that I probably won't be able to - for now at least.

While Linux is founded on the philosophy of free and easy access to its code for anyone who's interested, Apple is not. That means no iTunes for Linux, and nor is Apple likely to release such a version.


At least he put the blame in the proper place for ipod sync issues.

[swisscow]

The tone is a bit "linux is for geeks" for most of the report until the end and the line about "linux is a text-based system" is bound to put people off.

Of course if you slap a new os on an eeepc (did he use the ubuntu version or the normal desktop?) you are bound to have problems. He should have contrasted it with the experience of loading xp.

I suppose there is no such thing as bad publicity but IMHO the man is an idiot.

[Prefix100]

Fair report,

He should be able to just plug in his iPod and have it working, he should be able to just install Ubuntu and have his wireless working, he shouldn't have to use the terminal.

[sydbat]

The author tells us a few times that he is not very tech-smart, nor does he have a long attention span, so we need to take those things into account when reading this article. Hopefully, those who feel they are in the same boat as him (as it were) will read this and say "hey, I bet I can put Ubuntu onto my computer too".

Because we (the GNU/Linux, or more specifically the Ubuntu community) are too close to this topic, we tend to see the negative sides of articles like this. We need to keep ourselves from bashing journalists who write a fairly well balanced article like this (yes it is), letting the average person who knows nothing about Ubuntu or GNU/Linux the good and bad of what this OS has to offer.

My $.0001/2

[phrostbyte]

It's a bit a failure of the distro if his iPod and Wifi didn't work out of the box really. This stuff should work. But give blame where blame is due - damn Apple to hell for closing their newest iPods down so hard, and damn Broadcom and other wifi vendors for sucking at Linux support. :popcorn: Now that's done lets work around these minor setbacks. :)

[Dixon Bainbridge]

It's a bit a failure of the distro if his iPod and Wifi didn't work out of the box really. This stuff should work. But give blame where blame is due - damn Apple to hell for closing their newest iPods down so hard, and damn Broadcom and other wifi vendors for sucking at Linux support. :popcorn: Now that's done lets work around these minor setbacks. :)

I just get bored with these "it doesnt work in linux, you have to go searching through forums to get things working" crap. Really? And that never happens in windows?

I've lost count of the amount of hours I've had to spend trawling google looking for a solution as to why the onboard sound on my laptop didnt work after reinstalling XP for the 5th time due to previous issues, despite having the NATIVE drivers for it on a CD. Yet these issues are never brought up in articles about XP - but they are used constantly to bash linux.

No OS, whether its XP, Vista, Linux, BSD or OS X, is immune from problems. I've had a macbook for a year, and I've spent hours on forums trying to resolve glitches and issues that "should just work" but don't. Oh, and my wifes ipod had problems synching with itunes ON MY MAC. Go figure. In fact , it synchs and transfers faster on my ubuntu box than it does plugged into my macbook.

Fact is, if you have a computer, any computer, you have to be prepared to go fix something. There is not one single computer user in the world that hasnt had to get help sorting something out, yet according to alot of lazy journos, this is only an issue for linux.

/rolls eyes.

[Canis familiaris]

It is so unfortunate that due to a Company's neglect of a platform, the whole platform is being called torrid.
Thank God I don't own Apple Products and will never do so either no matter how good products they make.

[ice60]

the bbc are scum and that's all that needs to be said. here's one more thing they don't support linux with, they could have used something else -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics/monkey/7479984.stm

the bbc carter makes it clear they shouldn't do that as everyone with a tv in the uk has to pay the bbc tax even if they don't watch the bbc.

they aren't interested with 'getting to grips' with linux! they are a bunch of guardian reading, limp-wristed half-wits lol

i'd like to see him try and get the iplayer installed or that thing i linked to above, than he'd really have something to complain about lol. the bbc has no interest in supporting linux so i don't understand why he's even thinking of using it!

[clanky]

The BBC as an independant organisation has no obligation to support Linux and the fact that you describe them as scum for the report in the original post is incredible.

What should he have done, lied and said that his entire experience with Linux was perfect?

[Prefix100]

the bbc are scum and that's all that needs to be said. here's one more thing they don't support linux with, they could have used something else -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics/monkey/7479984.stm

the bbc carter makes it clear they shouldn't do that as everyone with a tv in the uk has to pay the bbc tax even if they don't watch the bbc.

they aren't interested with 'getting to grips' with linux! they are a bunch of guardian reading, limp-wristed half-wits lol

i'd like to see him try and get the iplayer installed or that thing i linked to above, than he'd really have something to complain about lol. the bbc has no interest in supporting linux so i don't understand why he's even thinking of using it!

Who cares about some stupid desktop monkey?

The important stuff they make cross platform, such as their live news, or the coverage of the olympics, or indeed iPlayer. They all work for me.

[bigbrovar]

am really surprised at the IQ of the journalist they have at the BBC .. am almost tempted to say that his account would be pumped up after that article was written .. its is beyond being irresponsible its sad .. his experiences could have been real and he probably went through hell installing Ubuntu on the eee ..but for Christ sake what would u expect .. the eeepc is built to work like an embedded device. it has been optimized to work with the xandos which in turn as been tweaked just for the eeepc .. in the same way that the windows xp that run on the eee is quite different for the regular windows xp .. and installing the generic xp on an eee although possible is going to hurts .. this guy is blaming Linux for is daftness .. what ever happens with look b4 u leap.. when i installed eeebuntu on an eee i spent some hours researching on the best approach and how it could be done .. and i prepared my mind that things might not work right .. when i tried it and it worked it was because i did the right thing.. i did my research .. a computer is only as good as its user .. and the writer of that article is a bad user .. nothing wrong with the OS .. i mean look at the way he is blaming Linux for Ipod not syncing .. oh so why not blame Mac for not syncing with the Zune .. its sad cause the BBC is well respected and this article would go a long way in shaping perception of linux among potential users ..

[Icehuck]

Getting to grips with Linux (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7594249.stm)

"Gary Parkinson had a torrid time when he converted to Linux. Here he shares his experiences with one of the alternatives to Microsoft's ubiquitous operating system."

Hmmmm ...


Seems like a person who has no idea about computers giving his impressions on the system. So you saying, "Hmm..." makes it seem like the article is some smear campaign against Linux.


He can't get an ipod working on linux? wtf? Its a piece of **** to sort. One search on these forums will tell you how to do it.

Last I checked you couldn't sync an Ipod Touch or Iphone that wasn't Jailbroke. Could it be possible that he has one of these?



Because we (the GNU/Linux, or more specifically the Ubuntu community) are too close to this topic, we tend to see the negative sides of articles like this. We need to keep ourselves from bashing journalists who write a fairly well balanced article like this (yes it is), letting the average person who knows nothing about Ubuntu or GNU/Linux the good and bad of what this OS has to offer.


I have to completely agree here.

[phrostbyte]

I just get bored with these "it doesnt work in linux, you have to go searching through forums to get things working" crap. Really? And that never happens in windows?

I've lost count of the amount of hours I've had to spend trawling google looking for a solution as to why the onboard sound on my laptop didnt work after reinstalling XP for the 5th time due to previous issues, despite having the NATIVE drivers for it on a CD. Yet these issues are never brought up in articles about XP - but they are used constantly to bash linux.

No OS, whether its XP, Vista, Linux, BSD or OS X, is immune from problems. I've had a macbook for a year, and I've spent hours on forums trying to resolve glitches and issues that "should just work" but don't. Oh, and my wifes ipod had problems synching with itunes ON MY MAC. Go figure. In fact , it synchs and transfers faster on my ubuntu box than it does plugged into my macbook.

Fact is, if you have a computer, any computer, you have to be prepared to go fix something. There is not one single computer user in the world that hasnt had to get help sorting something out, yet according to alot of lazy journos, this is only an issue for linux.

/rolls eyes.


Well for me personally I don't care. I love Linux and even if the thing breaks on me completely I'll gladly spend hours trying to fix it. IMO Linux is worth all the troubles, even when they were much worse in 2005. This doesn't happen much to me anymore however (except on my P.O.S. laptop)

But I think there should be a focus should be on making stuff "just work". Imagine if you install Ubuntu and everything just works, no drivers, everything just works! This would be 100x better then the typical experience on other operating systems .. and we are SO CLOSE to this.

When wifi is broken, or iPods don't work, I don't view it as the FAULT of Ubuntu or Linux community - it clearly is not. But it is a failure of the operating system. Someone that needs to get looked into, if it is complaining to the OEM who don't support Linux or coding around the issues.

[bigbrovar]

Last I checked you couldn't sync an Ipod Touch or Iphone that wasn't Jailbroke. Could it be possible that he has one of these? yeah because the ipod touch was built not to work with Linux .. so do u blame linux .. its like blaming my GSM provider because their SIM didnt work with the Iphone .. does that make sense


Because we (the GNU/Linux, or more specifically the Ubuntu community) are too close to this topic, we tend to see the negative sides of articles like this. We need to keep ourselves from bashing journalists who write a fairly well balanced article like this (yes it is), letting the average person who knows nothing about Ubuntu or GNU/Linux the good and bad of what this OS has to offer.
u call this well balanced article? really Icehuck really ? u install a generic Ubuntu on a a device built and specifically designed to work on a xandros specifically made for it .. and when it didn't work u now blame the whole Linux community as a whole .. is that balanced .. the guy installed a desktop Ubuntu on a an eee .. in a freaking netbook with proprietary hardware meant to work on sumtin else .. christ !

[ice60]

The BBC as an independant organisation has no obligation to support Linux and the fact that you describe them as scum for the report in the original post is incredible.

you don't understand the way the bbc works, i do, it's a public service for people in the uk. have you even read the BBC charter? can you explain what it is?

it's very clear that not supporting linux goes against the charter, they HAVE TO SUPPORT LINUX WITH EVERYTHING THEY DO BECAUSE IT'S A PUBLIC SERVICE PAID FOR BY THE PEOPLE OF THE UK. not supporting linux goes against the charter, they are not allowed to do that it's very simple and it's also a fact.

[Sealbhach]

This is smear.

Linux = l33t Haxorz


It's a bit like the way all hackers in Hollywood movies furiously crash out lines of incomprehensible text on their laptops when they're trying to bust into the Pentagon's defence network.

Was that really necessary?



.

[ice60]

Who cares about some stupid desktop monkey?

The important stuff they make cross platform, such as their live news, or the coverage of the olympics, or indeed iPlayer. They all work for me.
you can download stuff from the iplayer and play it on your desktop, then it stops working after a month, unlike the flash player that only works for one week? i've read nothing about it so you might be right.

i thought the linux version was just the flash player and they hadn't bothered supporting linux yet!

[mellowd]

I sent BBC an email complaining about the inaccuracy in that article. Who knows if I'll actually get a response

[bigbrovar]

I sent BBC an email complaining about the inaccuracy in that article. Who knows if I'll actually get a response
am sending mine too

[CJ56]

Well it was a pretty slack little piece - not least because, having got his system working, ol' Gary Parkinson neglects to tell us what his actual experience of Ubuntu is. It may even be that (iPod notwithstanding) he quite likes it; it's hard to say. Perhaps a follow-up piece is on the way.

On the other hand - he's writing about Ubuntu, and the piece is well-promoted on the BBC website, which one of most visited in the UK (whatever you think of the Beeb itself) and with a strong international presence.

Completely free publicity, in other words. How bad can that be?

[ice60]

The BBC as an independant organisation has no obligation to support Linux and the fact that you describe them as scum for the report in the original post is incredible.

What should he have done, lied and said that his entire experience with Linux was perfect?
and one more thing i didn't read the report, maybe two lines, but no more i called the bbc scum for their biased reporting and for things like this link below, this is just what's being reported about them today
http://tvguide.aol.co.uk/bbc-slammed-over-10m-travel-costs/article/2008090219323274751131

edit
if anyone says "what biased reporting" i'm not replying, this is my last post in this thread i'm going out to get wasted, i can't talk about the bbc and remain sane.

[DoctorMO]

The report seems like a fair non-invested perspective. It's not a fair reflection of balancing benefits but there were some good points and to be honest various wifi and other hardware problems should be dealt with more swiftly.

[Icehuck]

yeah because the ipod touch was built not to work with Linux .. so do u blame linux .. its like blaming my GSM provider because their SIM didnt work with the Iphone .. does that make sense

As a non tech user, I wouldn't understand that its not the operation systems fault. All I would know is I used this new platform and my stuff doesn't work. What platform is the programs written for? Linux. Who do I blame? Linux

If you never worked with the average user daily, you wouldn't understand this. When I did enterprise desktop support, you wouldn't believe the people who couldn't distinguish between Windows and AS400. A problem happened in AS400 and they would claim that Windows wouldn't start.


u call this well balanced article? really Icehuck really ? u install a generic Ubuntu on a a device built and specifically designed to work on a xandros specifically made for it .. and when it didn't work u now blame the whole Linux community as a whole .. is that balanced .. the guy installed a desktop Ubuntu on a an eee .. in a freaking netbook with proprietary hardware meant to work on sumtin else .. christ !

First, you missed quoted someone else for me. I quoted this text


Because we (the GNU/Linux, or more specifically the Ubuntu community) are too close to this topic, we tend to see the negative sides of articles like this. We need to keep ourselves from bashing journalists who write a fairly well balanced article like this (yes it is), letting the average person who knows nothing about Ubuntu or GNU/Linux the good and bad of what this OS has to offer.

and responded that, "I completely agree."

To answer what you directed towards me, I don't expect any average user to know the difference in customized version of Xandros and Ubuntu. Heck I wouldn't even expect a user to know there is XP Pro and XP Home. From an everyday users point of view, the article is well written and balanced. Just because there are negatives doesn't mean its biased.

I understand you are passionate about Linux, but you need to calm down. It seems like you are very hostile towards people who don't see your views. The people on this forum, myself included, are not your enemy and we all use Linux. Also not everyone is out to destroy Linux. Half the world doesn't even know what it is or what it does.

[Prefix100]

am sending mine too

Don't.

The report is a fair one, don't try and force someone to change their words.

At the end of the report, if you read between the lines, he says he is happy with Linux, and happy to sacrifice his iPod for a CD player to use Linux instead of windows.

Jeez.

Guys really, there is no such thing as bad publicity.

[Kernel Sanders]

I sent BBC an email complaining about the inaccuracy in that article. Who knows if I'll actually get a response


am sending mine too

How can it be inaccurate? It's his actual experience with an Eee PC he's documenting. If it's inaccurate you're calling him an outright liar.

[BigSilly]

What a rubbish article. I know what some are saying about us being too close to the subject, but by anyone's standards this is poor. Again, yet another computer user comes to Linux expecting to have this fabled "Insta-Knowledge (TM)". As I recommend to any new user, bring an open mind to Linux and it's riches will be yours. Have it interrupting your "sweet tea and Football Focus" and, well, it's doomed to failure isn't it? Come on man, it's not hard! Good grief...

It wasn't that long ago the Beeb were posting up fairly positive articles like this one (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/06/erik_linux.html).

I'm actually surprised how annoyed I am at this drivel. OK I am being a bit too harsh....:D

[Saltee]

I was quite upset when I read this article. I now have no respect for the author.

The article is unbalanced, however it was about an "experience", so there's some slack there. That's was charity so I pull the slack back as I pay for Auntie in my taxes as part of the "TV license". There should be more articles to follow which include similar experiences with Microsoft, and Apple products (at a minimum). (At least Apple sell their OS and Hardware AND license as a whole!! So I have nothing against them whatsoever).

To my knowledge, iPod's don't work on Windows unless you install iTunes. Please correct me if wrong. I won an iPod and never used it because I hated the way it worked, my "new" car can hold and work the iPod so now I've got it out. I installed Hipo (Linux) and it works like a dream (compared to iTunes and it's feature creep). The article suggests (italics) that ALL other operating systems support iPods as standard. Maybe they do, but I have 50quid here that says otherwise - VMS probably does nothing for the thing.

The whole article comes across as a dig at Linus T. and Linux. As far as I remember, Linus was responsible for the kernel. So again, I stress Auntie should include the Kernel developers in the articles they're (probably not) going to publish to follow up.

For a living I get involved with writing code for Windows (NTx) and also for Unix systems (including Linux). I run Linux at home. Yes I have Ubuntu (Hardy) as my desktop, but only because it's a smashing desktop - it's a nice mix. My heart is with Red Had, and so I run CentOS behind the scenes. So I'm Debian and RedHat.

I also own an EEE, and please (as someone hinted up there), Auntie - can there be a follow up where Gary Parkinson installs Windows to his EEE (from the box) and tells us how nice / vulgar it was?

Thanks everyone
C
btw (i edited this twice but content remains same)

[Dixon Bainbridge]

Last I checked you couldn't sync an Ipod Touch or Iphone that wasn't Jailbroke. Could it be possible that he has one of these?


What does jailbroke mean? My dads Ipod touch works just fine with ubuntu. All i did was some software hack. It was really simple.

/shrugs

[Prefix100]

Seeing as some of you have tunnel vision I'll point out all his positives.


"free access to software inspires development driven by need, not the need for cash - was the main attraction to me of choosing a Linux-fuelled machine" ( Likes the ideas behind Linux )

"It's a muscular system too." ( Thinks it is powerful )

"First impressions of Linux were positive." ( At first he liked it )

"the one I prefer, Ubuntu." ( Clearly likes Ubuntu )

"Xandros worked right out of the box." ( Windows doesn't do that. )

"Word processing, spreadsheets and presentations are no problem." ( Doesn't need Microsoft Office )

"there are free, Linux-compatible versions of pretty much any program you may want" ( Sees that there is a large selection of software )

"Xandros connected to the net through my home wireless network at the first time of asking. And surfing was fast and easy."

"great things about Linux is that if you don't like a particular distro you can just change it for one you do"

"follow the simple instructions to install and 10 minutes later my computer screen looks completely different and much more like what I'm used to. A doddle."

"Another great thing about Linux is the plethora of internet forums that you can sign up to where users can share tips and experience."

"Easy when you know how." ( Knowledge comes with experience. )

" [...] Apple is not. That means no iTunes for Linux [...] " (He puts blame were blame is due )

" For the time being, it's back to the trusty CD player. All this talk of hippy ideals has put me right in the mood for a bit of Sgt Pepper's. " ( Because he sees all the other positives, he knows it is worth temporarily sacrificing his iPod, he must like it a lot to do that, right? )

[Saltee]

We can all read the positives, but as a whole it's a very negative article.

If the author knows enough about Linus surely he thinks Bill wrote NT and DOS! Bill brought DOS from another vendor and did not single handedly write NT. (I have nothing against either of them).

What does owning an iPod have to do with Linux or the OS you run at home? I assume he thinks iTunes comes as default with Windows ... (perhaps it does but i doubt this)

Why does he slate the EEE and Xandros - they started the whole market for this, (AND ASUS provide a CD with Windows hardware drivers for those that don't care for their Xandors etc.).

"It's a muscular system too. The likes of Amazon and Google" - based on what? explain, background?

To me, the article slates Linux because it didn't support the iPod out of the box. It did everything else ...

And (sorry for starting a sentence that way), if the author took the time to realize, ASUS locked down the EEE with what has been dubbed as "simple mode", that's not the KDE desktop (but this is another discussion). He could have has a gui very similar to Windows in under 2 minutes if he cared to read the forums that were so gracefully put down.

Either you are the author or you work for Auntie. IMHO that is.

[Prefix100]

I really don't think its that negative of an article at all..

It's a fair article and if that's what your perceive to be negative, then you have to be a zealot.

[Saltee]

sorry - and another
"Freedom to fiddle

There were a couple of things about Xandros which I didn't like.

The music management program - its "iTunes", if you like - let me listen to music and podcasts on my new laptop but wouldn't sync anything I loaded on to my iPod. Big problem for a music and podcast junkie.

Plus the desktop - the way the screen looks, the icons it uses to open programs - looks like it's been designed by a four-year-old with a fat crayon. It's may be down to personal taste, but I just don't like the way Xandros looks. "

He hasn't a clue - this is not Xandros - it's the "easy mode" as set by ASUS.

Why does it have to be iTunes all the god damm time!!!!!! - does he work for Apple or the Beeb.

[Saltee]

Call me a "zealot". I love Linux (well Unix based OS's) - all of the +'s are valid, but for the majority of the time (throughout) they get knocked down a sentence or para 'later!). I'm not a journo, I have a life. I'd just like to see a balanced article - this one really is one sided (if you own an iPod and work for Microsoft or the Beeb).

The author has an (un-healthy) obsession with his/her iPod and expects all Linux releases to work on every machine out of the box AND to support their iPod.

WHY?

happy to be a "zealot" - i work in lot's of OS's and hardware to boot.

x

[mike1234]

I wonder if MS paid this guy to write this story. One glaring "report" like this can really influence the masses. After all he's journalist right? It has to be true. Stay away from Linux you retard!

M.

[Icehuck]

\
The author has an (un-healthy) obsession with his/her iPod and expects all Linux releases to work on every machine out of the box AND to support their iPod.

WHY?


If you go to the store and buy a computer you expect it to just work. So, therefore if you are installing another OS on your system you expect it to just work. The fact that computers in general don't "just work" for end users is a failure.
These things just work when you buy them.

TV's
VCR's
DVD Players
Console Game Systems
Refrigerators
Microwaves
Automobiles
Phones

Going from one brand to the next doesn't involve any thought except how much you want to spend.

Why Ipod? Because when there are more then 150 million of them in consumer hands, its a device that should be supported.

[R_T_H]

Why does he have to have exactly the same experience of Linux as you complainants? If he didn't like it, fine. If he insults it, fine. You come off as slightly rabid fanatics.

I personally would argue that he said it wasn't ideal for him, but there were aspects of it he liked? What more can you ask of mainstream media attention? Indeed, some people may be attracted by his description of it as a text-based system (like me - I originally started using Linux only as a challenge to myself).

[init1]

He can't get an ipod working on linux? wtf? Its a piece of **** to sort. One search on these forums will tell you how to do it.

Xandros is crap though. Poor choice for pre-installed linux.
He doesn't say which iPod he has, so he might have a touch, which is impossible to get working in Linux without jailbreaking it, which is impossible to do in Linux if you have the latest firmware.

[Saltee]

cough and choke

first the iPod - it's an Apple brand product. it's not just an MP3 player. Think about that.

second - why does every jd assume every release of Linux is the same and works on everything?

i don't really need to say much more.

I still use Red Hat and Debian (and Windows and more).

[zmjjmz]

I noticed that the Geek Squad helped him.
What the eff.

[Saltee]

I joined this topic because I didn't like the article. I though it punched down Linux as an alternative to "something else".

So to all - please let us keep the discussion in context.

I have nothing against the original author of the BBC article other than I think it's a put down of Linux as a whole (especially Ubuntu.)....

I don't work for this froum either!

edit here

i do have an iPod (that i won) and it's MUCH easier to use under Hipo (linux) than iTunes (Windows)

[Prefix100]

Call me a "zealot". I love Linux (well Unix based OS's) - all of the +'s are valid, but for the majority of the time (throughout) they get knocked down a sentence or para 'later!).

Thats the point of a balanced article: Motion, The Positive, The Negative.



I'm not a journo, I have a life. I'd just like to see a balanced article - this one really is one sided (if you own an iPod and work for Microsoft or the Beeb).

It isn't one sided. He doesn't once appear to be a Microsoft fanboy, infact he clearly state he likes the Ideals behind Linux, and all the rest listed in my previous post.



The author has an (un-healthy) obsession with his/her iPod and expects all Linux releases to work on every machine out of the box AND to support their iPod.

WHY?

The iPod is an extremely popular media device. It is so big that it not working on Linux is a serious failure, they are expensive, and people arn't going to switch to an OS that their expensive media player won't work on, are they?

Because of this, his points of the iPod are fair ones.




happy to be a "zealot"

Who's one sided now?

I'm done posting in this topic, I've made my points/opinion on this article clear as day.

[Saltee]

lol and PMSL - it's law to support iPod !!!!

please re read everything you wrote. and look at the photographs that go with the article.

here is an off the side QQ - unless you are the author, why...? do you read tabloids in the UK?

[Saltee]

As an end.

I use Linux, I use Windows, and I use other OS's to boot.

I have MP3 players, including an EEE PC. I use that as my main MP3 player, but only because it's lightweight and i can stream Shoutcast!

Really, this whole discussion is lost.

The BBC article placed an opinion - to which i do not agree - but here is not the playground to take it apart.

so for me i leave this now mundane chat ...

[Sealbhach]

It's a very negative disparaging article. Probably because Linux is free - he has no respect for it.

People don't write about commercial software products in this condescending tone.

He mentions hacking into the Pentagon??? WTF?????


.

[matthekc]

upon hearing about more Ipod problems I pick up archos 5 with its giant touch screen and 30 gig hard drive and hug it. I love my Archos!

http://www.archos.com/products/gen_5/archos_605wifi/more.html?country=global&lang=en

[geezerone]

He wasn't happy that wireless didn't work - like that is anything new to many on these forums. If he had tried Linux a few years ago it would no doubt had been even worse for him.

He did try it anyhow which is publicity for Linux at the very least. Maybe on the back of that report some may even try for themselves and not have bad experiences.

[bigbrovar]

people should get their facts straight its iPod that does not support Linux .. Linux supports iPod .. i amarok,rhythmbox,gtkpod, to mention a few all have excellent support of the iPod .. even though the ipod is built to only sync with itunes .. so that is credit to Linux ..

[toupeiro]

In the end, I really do not care who writes what for the BBC about Linux... I've seen elderly in retirement homes install and use it. Want to know where that places the BBC's credibility on the topic for me?

:rolleyes:

[clanky]

Some of the attitudes displayed in this thread are incredible.

This article was about the guys experience with Linux, his experience is no different to that which can be found on these forums every day. How many new linux users come on here and their first post is "how do I make ....... work?". Yet people are slating the guy and accusing him of being paid my Microsoft to write an "anti-linux" article.

Ubuntu isn't perfect, there are things which could be better, and the press cannot be expected to gloss over the cracks and write fanboy articles about how awesome the compiz cube is and why Microsoft is evil.

@ice60 ... yes I do understand about the BBC, yes I have read the BBC charter, and please don't assume that just because I disagree with you that it makes me ignorant and stupid, I am not the one who has shown a complete lack of understanding by posting rude and arrogant comments.

[darkblane]

The only reason he hasn't had a positive overall experience is the failure to get his iPOD working. All he needs to do is download Songbird and install the iPOD extension (http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/12)

[Icehuck]

The only reason he hasn't had a positive overall experience is the failure to get his iPOD working. All he needs to do is download Songbird and install the iPOD extension (http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/12)

That's if he isn't using an Ipod Touch or Iphone.

[toupeiro]

While I agree that all the banter about being paid by MS is over the top, here is my issue with it.

What separates my coming on here and talking about my first experiences and his article, is that I am not employed by an internationally syndicated broadcasting company, reporting on behalf of them. I am writing on my own behalf. And, to basically label ubuntu linux as hacker friendly only because he had trouble with a piece of hardware made by one of the most notorious proprietary companies in the IT business next to Microsoft reflects a LOT of ignorance... If I were an author of technical publications, no matter at what level, for what company, I would never write something so uninformed because my name goes along with it. If that is the caliber of writer the BBC choses to publish about technical reviews, then its apparently obvious to me that the BBC doesn't care that much about good technical publications.

[aysiu]

There's nothing wrong with posting in a support forum your technical support problems.

From a journalist, I expect research and more than just a diary of a personal experience that misleads people into thinking Linux can't fulfill basic functions for users.

A couple of things to remember here before you accuse people of overreacting or being Linux fanboys: How many BBC articles do you see about trying to use Windows and Windows not fulfilling basic needs for an end user? How many readers of this article do you think have never tried Linux themselves and won't bother trying it after reading the article? A responsible article about Linux will outline specific groups for whom Linux is and is not appropriate, explain exactly when the command-line terminal is needed or not needed, and give a balanced picture overall for people curious about Linux as to whether it's worth their time or not.

I mean, come on. The article is entitled "Getting to grips with Linux" and the summary is "Gary Parkinson had a torrid time when he converted to Linux. Here he shares his experiences with one of the alternatives to Microsoft's ubiquitous operating system." Immediately the tone is a negative one.

And then there's this bit of FUD:
t's probably worth mentioning one other important point about Linux here. It's a text-based operating system, which means that a fair few of the things you may want to tell your computer to do - installing certain new software, for example - requires you to open up a "terminal window" and actually type text into the little window.

It's a bit like the way all hackers in Hollywood movies furiously crash out lines of incomprehensible text on their laptops when they're trying to bust into the Pentagon's defence network.

As someone used solely to double-clicking on pretty pictures to do most anything on a computer this is pretty hairy stuff. Way to reinforce the stereotypes and spread misinformation.

Might there be a time when someone who is installing and configuring Linux themselves has to use the terminal? Sure. But that's the not way he says it. Look at it. Technically what he's saying is factual, but it gives the impression that most tasks require you to be a professional hacker.

That's not true at all. Most tasks are double-click, and if you have to use the terminal, you can usually just copy and paste commands. See? What we're both saying is factual, but what I said is a positive spin on the matter.

[clanky]

The point is that this was meant to be a diary type article. I do not think that it was deliberately negative other the the fact that he was trying to convey the negative impression that he got from his experience.

I agree that it could have emphasised the positives a little more and in my opinion, having made such a big issue of synching his iPod he should have followed it through and published the end result. However, nothing in this article warranted the sort of vitriol in some of the posts above, he did not come out and slate Ubuntu, he actually was quite positive in parts and on the whole the article would have aroused my curiosity more than put me off.

[kjb34]

I read the article and I don't feel he was necessarily attacking Linux he does mention some good things like how you try distros until you find one you like. I think when he put his article together it was out of frustration more than anything else. The author is like some people who initially come to Linux, and expect everything work just like Windows. One thing I didn't like is how he repeatedly mentioned Linux and hippie together, I didn't care for that part of it.

[BrownieBoy]

>> I think when he put his article together it was out
>> of frustration more than anything else. The author is like some people who
>> initially come to Linux, and expect everything work just like Windows

Everybody posting comments like this, and/or moaning about "out of the box experience" and non-working wireless drivers are missing an essential point about this article: it DID all work out of the frakking box!!!!!

For once, here's a device (Asus EEE) that's preconfigured with Linux, and it all just works. Don't believe me? Read the article again:

"Xandros connected to the net through my home wireless network at the first time of asking. And surfing was fast and easy."

At a stroke, one of Windows' big advantages, that it comes preinstalled and preconfigured on just about every PC that you can buy, is gone. All that fiddling about and command-line stuff is no longer necessary.

So, what does the BBC boy do with this working install? He frakking wipes it, that's what! Then he tries to install a distro off a magazine cover, writes about his experiences about *that*, and the whole thing is passed off as a normal user experience of Linux. The playing field that was momentarily levelled up, is tilted full-square back against Linux again.

Okay, Xandros on the EEE isn't brilliant, but it *does* work out of the box. He certainly didn't need to wipe it for the reasons that he specified, i.e., he doesn't like Easy Mode. A quick Google would have revealed the presence of Full Screen mode and how to enable it (although why Asus make no mention of that in its documentation remains a mystery). He also could have tried a distribution that's actually designed for the EEE, instead of a stock one off the magazine cover. Again, that's basic lack of research.

I too have complained to the BBC, and have even received a response., which I'm not happy with. That conversation is ongoing...

[waapwoop1]

I sent BBC an email complaining about the inaccuracy in that article. Who knows if I'll actually get a response

Inaccuracy of an opinion piece. wow. now that is inaccurate.

[waapwoop1]

The only reason he hasn't had a positive overall experience is the failure to get his iPOD working. All he needs to do is download Songbird and install the iPOD extension (http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/12)

songbird is really bad, sorry.

[Ripfox]

songbird is really bad, sorry.

Songbird is fantastic. (for me anyways)