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Sporkman
August 29th, 2008, 03:22 PM
That's an even tougher issue, as people's lives & well-being can depend on drug availability... Check out this story, and be sure to read that last two paragraphs:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080827/ap_on_he_me/med_eye_drugs_3


Study outcome won't sway company on eye drug

By KEVIN FREKING, Associated Press Writer Wed Aug 27, 4:49 PM ET

WASHINGTON - What does a company do when there's anecdotal evidence that two of its drugs are equally effective in treating a leading cause of blindness in the elderly, one costing patients $60 per treatment and the other $2,000?

In the case of Genentech Inc., nothing.

The company declined to seek federal approval for the cheaper drug, Avastin, to treat the wet form of age-related macular degeneration. Nor would it help finance — or cooperate with — a National Eye Institute study comparing the effectiveness and safety of Avastin, a cancer drug, and the more expensive eye drug, Lucentis.

The financial stakes stemming from the study are huge. Medicare officials estimate there could be 50,000 or more additional cases of macular degeneration a year. Treating just one year's worth of new patients with Lucentis would cost $1.2 billion a year, compared with $60 million if they're treated with Avastin, Medicare officials said.

Genentech is making no promises that it will act upon the trial's final results, which are expected in two to three years.

The company has raised concerns that safety issues were not properly addressed. In particular, the trial doesn't have enough patients to show some of the rare but serious side effects that could occur with use of the cheaper drug, the company contends.

"No matter the outcome, we continue to believe Lucentis is the most appropriate treatment for wet AMD," said Krysta Pellegrino, a company spokeswoman.

Wet AMD occurs when abnormal blood vessels leak blood and fluid affecting the part of the eye that allows you to see fine detail.

Many eye doctors believe Avastin works just as well in treating macular degeneration even though it hasn't been approved for that purpose. It's not unusual for drugs to be used off-label — treating diseases other than ones the drug was approved for.

Both drugs target a protein that causes blood vessels in the back of the eye to grow, but Lucentis is a much smaller molecule. It was specifically designed — at great expense — to penetrate the retina.

Companies routinely help finance clinical trials, but such trials almost never pit two products from the same company against each other.

"It's a very unusual situation where a company would be trying to compare its own drugs," said Dr. Frederick Ferris, director of clinical research at the National Eye Institute. "I'm not sure usual situations are all that relevant in this particular case."

Still, health officials pleaded with Genentech to participate in the clinical trial comparing the two drugs. At one point the company considered doing so by providing the medicines in masked, identical vials, according to e-mail exchanges obtained by the Senate Aging Committee.

"Good news is that the Board supports the proposed studies," said one e-mail sent in June 2007 from Charlie Johnson, a company vice president, to Dr. Daniel Martin, the chairman of the study who works at the Emory University School of Medicine.

In the end, the board did not support the study. Martin made a final plea.

"The fact that we are comparing your drugs and you are not involved is very awkward and can easily give way to anti-Genentech sentiments," Martin said. "The leaders of this study are only interested in answering the many scientific and patient management questions that we face with our patients every day, but some investigators and the press want this study to be more than that. Your involvement would be very helpful to both of our causes."

Genentech routinely provides financial support for clinical trials, Pellegrino said in an interview. But in this case, she said, "Our resources would be better spent looking at other diseases where there are no treatments.

Dr. Philip Rosenfeld, who has treated hundreds of his eye patients in South Florida with Avastin, said Genentech had little economic incentive to help finance the trial — unless it was confident Lucentis was truly superior.

"By fact that they didn't support the clinical study leads me to conclude that in reality there is no difference between the two drugs," Rosenfeld said. "The result is clearly not in Genentech's best interest."

Avastin was approved to treat colon cancer in February 2004. It's a genetically engineered product that inhibits the growth of blood vessels, thus denying tumors blood, oxygen and other nutrients needed for growth. It's expensive, costing $2,200 for a typical treatment for colon cancer. However, for treating eye disease, pharmacy compounding firms split the drug into many tiny doses suitable for injection into the eye. That's what brings the price down to about $60 per injection.

Rosenfeld said the study could put doctors at ease about potential litigation if they prescribe Avastin instead of the FDA-approved drug.

"I see this as a public health study, not only for us, but for the whole world. It gives everyone the license to use both drugs interchangeably," Rosenfeld said. "Clearly, for Medicare it would make economic sense to put preference on the use of Avastin.

As lawmakers await the results of the trial, they are already considering what steps, if any, could be taken to steer the Medicare program to the less costly drug — if it's indeed comparable.

An internal memorandum from congressional aides to the Senate Aging Committee's chairman, Herb Kohl, D-Wis., recommends that lawmakers consider urging Medicare officials to pay no more for one drug than the other when it comes to treating the eye disease.

Medicare's contractors already have authority to pay the same amount for items that achieve much the same result — such as hormones used to treat prostate cancer.

If the drugs are shown to work comparably, "it would surprise me if the contractors did not quickly use that concept," said Dr. Steve Phurrough, director of coverage and analysis at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

Pellegrino said it's too early in the comparison trial to comment about the staff's recommendation.

Pellegrino said Genentech's pricing for Lucentis reflects the cost of developing the drug, which the FDA approved in June 2006. The development program included a clinical trial involving more than 6,000 patients at a cost of more than $45,000 a patient.

"It took decades and hundreds of millions of dollars to develop the drug," she said.

clanky
August 29th, 2008, 03:35 PM
If companies could not expect to make a return on their outlay then they would not attract the investment needed to develop these drugs in the first place, it's a no-brainer.

What does need to be controlled is that companies should not be allowed to use supply and demand economics to hold people to ransom and sell drugs at over-inflated prices.

joninkrakow
August 29th, 2008, 03:37 PM
Patents need to last longer. This problem came about when patents were shortened on medicine. Companies have to recoup their expenses is less time than when they had longer patents, thus raising their prices. Secondly, due to the quick turn-around, they tend to focus less on innovation and more on making a quick recovery with less research. So, with the patents laws (as often with government intervention), it was one step forward and two backwards.... and now, rather than admit their mistake, the govnt is going to meddle even more. Gotta love the hubris--and Obama promises even more of this! (actually, he won't say _what_ he's promising...)

rune0077
August 29th, 2008, 03:42 PM
If companies could not expect to make a return on their outlay then they would not attract the investment needed to develop these drugs in the first place, it's a no-brainer.


Much of the medicine being developed against things like cancer and AIDS, is practically done with money that comes in from government and charities. Companies can get away with making a pill that they have hardly paid a dime for out of their own pockets, and yet have the audacity to charge money for it and make a profit selling it. If that profit then went into the development of more medicine, fair enough, but mostly it is used for lobbying in the Halls of Power.

Kernel Sanders
August 29th, 2008, 03:44 PM
If companies could not expect to make a return on their outlay then they would not attract the investment needed to develop these drugs in the first place, it's a no-brainer.

What does need to be controlled is that companies should not be allowed to use supply and demand economics to hold people to ransom and sell drugs at over-inflated prices.

What he said.

New medicines mostly take years of research and testing and millions upon millions upon millions of $ in the process.

Unless the companies are able to have a mechanism for making not only their money back on developing the drug, but a tidy profit too, where's the incentive to make drugs in the first place?

Can you imagine if drug patents didn't exist:

Company A: spends $200,000,000 and 10 years on an anti cancer drug and brings it to market.
Company B: buys a sample of Company A's drug, tests it, then comes out with a close and equally effective copy of the drug.

Company A can't even make its $200,000,000 back, let alone a profit and in turn goes under, and Company B makes a quick buck.

Tell me, in those circumstances, who in their right mind would spend the money needed on new drugs, if someone can just copy it and undercut you pretty much immediately?

Kvark
August 29th, 2008, 04:02 PM
Much of the medicine being developed against things like cancer and AIDS, is practically done with money that comes in from government and charities. Companies can get away with making a pill that they have hardly paid a dime for out of their own pockets, and yet have the audacity to charge money for it and make a profit selling it. If that profit then went into the development of more medicine, fair enough, but mostly it is used for lobbying in the Halls of Power.
Also in many countries the government pays most of the price for medicine. If those countries ignored patents, bought cheap generic drugs and spent half of the government savings on increasing their research funding that'd give more money to research than what companies currently spend encouraged by patents.

Besides it's not good to prioritize drug research based on profit potential since the most profitable drugs are treatments for rich countries. Cures are less profitable because if they're cured they don't need to buy more medicine and medicines for diseases millions die of in poor countries are less profitable.

geoken
August 29th, 2008, 04:07 PM
Also, in the specific case the article outlines, both drugs have been released. The company isn't officially saying the cheaper drug will do the same thing as the more expensive drug, but the drug isn't being held back or anything.

clanky
August 29th, 2008, 05:26 PM
Much of the medicine being developed against things like cancer and AIDS, is practically done with money that comes in from government and charities. Companies can get away with making a pill that they have hardly paid a dime for out of their own pockets, and yet have the audacity to charge money for it and make a profit selling it. If that profit then went into the development of more medicine, fair enough, but mostly it is used for lobbying in the Halls of Power.

While what you say about much of the development money coming in from governments and charities, the development of these drugs still requires private investment, without this investment many of these companies simply wouldn't exist.

rune0077
August 29th, 2008, 05:35 PM
While what you say about much of the development money coming in from governments and charities, the development of these drugs still requires private investment, without this investment many of these companies simply wouldn't exist.

In theory, it would be quite possible to use the government budgets and the charities to pay the researchers salaries, thus making the corporations themselves redundant. This would of course only work for the "important" medicine that gets a lot of 3rd party funding. I doubt very many charities are being donated to the development of standard painkillers.

Another idea, which I understand has been suggested in the US before, would be to simply do away with the patents all together, and then award a considerable cash price to the company that invented the new drug. Then there would still be the incentive of profit for the company, and for the consumers it would mean that generic alternatives became available immediately, that competition increases and prices are lowered.

etnlIcarus
August 29th, 2008, 05:46 PM
I find it annoying that the axiom is accepted as an inevitability; development of medicines must be outsourced to corporate, for-profit enterprises, lest we embrace every evil tenet of socialism and the 'inefficiency' it results in.

You've got gov'ts subsidising businesses, who in-turn have independent labs do most of their R&D, who are forced to keep their early progress largely confidential as their financier's patent portfolios don't protect them against the competition copying their general research. Consequentially, you've got scientists replicating each other's work on the dollar of gov't and taxpayers (also, the healthcare industry and the ill once the drug hits the market), unable to learn from their peers' mistakes and breakthroughs.

Eventually, you end up with drugs on the market, under the firm control of superfluous middle-man bodies with only their own bottom-line at heart. As if this weren't inefficient enough; as so many medicines are subsidised, these companies then get to rob gov'ts blind a second time, while they're making sure both patients and their insurance are squeezed for everything they're worth.

forrestcupp
August 29th, 2008, 07:29 PM
Much of the medicine being developed against things like cancer and AIDS, is practically done with money that comes in from government and charities.
That may be true, but the more common medicines for things like acid reflux disease and high blood pressure aren't really popular things for governments and charities to donate to. They only get funded for the glamorous diseases.

rune0077
August 29th, 2008, 07:33 PM
That may be true, but the more common medicines for things like acid reflux disease and high blood pressure aren't really popular things for governments and charities to donate to. They only get funded for the glamorous diseases.

Hence the comment from my next post:


This would of course only work for the "important" medicine that gets a lot of 3rd party funding. I doubt very many charities are being donated to the development of standard painkillers.


:)

Dremora
August 29th, 2008, 07:35 PM
Drug patent laws are essentially blood money.

It takes so long for a patent to expire, and then get the generics flowing, and even generics cost a few times more than they need to usually.

I think drug patents are 17 years?

I think it should be reduced to 5-7 years and the government should step in and regulate the price after that.

Dremora
August 29th, 2008, 07:39 PM
That may be true, but the more common medicines for things like acid reflux disease and high blood pressure aren't really popular things for governments and charities to donate to. They only get funded for the glamorous diseases.

And the United States medicare system is being bankrupted by AIDS patients.

One reason is because they don't do enough to educate high schoolers, mainly because of the dominant religion saying that knowing about condoms will cause more people to have sex. (Not true)

The second reason is because the government will pay $900+ a month for refusing to allow Medicare to regulate prices.

The third reason, is that people don't take their pills and cause the infection to become resistant, and make 2nd and 3rd line drugs necessary, the same kind of people will willfully spread the disease because they know they're dying and if they don't care about their life, they won't care about yours either.